Peptides vs. Exo-HGH (in terms of insulin)
- Thread starter sespress
- Start date
sespress
Well-known member
Let me know about that analogy if you come across it!
Also - IGF .. Antibodies?? This is interesting, you mean there is an immune response that knocks IGF out of the system after a while? Crazysauce.
sespress
Well-known member
Just a fundage situation or you expect them to be non-synergistic? I keep running into this idea of running both, one to bring up the base level , and the other to pulse it in a simulated fashion to what occurs in the male body.
Edit:
I can skip the GRPH/No-DAC combo shot's on the day I take w/ DAC if there's a chance it's just too much all in one day. I can imagine if hunger get's bad from one... I may have to eat a sofa cushion. And then my girls gonna get pissed!
Edit:
I can skip the GRPH/No-DAC combo shot's on the day I take w/ DAC if there's a chance it's just too much all in one day. I can imagine if hunger get's bad from one... I may have to eat a sofa cushion. And then my girls gonna get pissed!
Movin_weight
Active member
Your getting a lot of input from a number of different experiences. I would keep it as simple as possible at this point and see how you react to the compounds you have listed above as being comfortable with. There is always time to add additional things or swap out what doesn't work for you. We are all in it for the the long haul, and half the excitement is trying new things.
Stick with your peptide protocol and see how it works for you, then you can reach out for additional feedback.
I'm basically a human pin cushion at this point but still spit back exceptional blood work and feel great, so can only hope no harm no foul. Time will tell!
Stick with your peptide protocol and see how it works for you, then you can reach out for additional feedback.
I'm basically a human pin cushion at this point but still spit back exceptional blood work and feel great, so can only hope no harm no foul. Time will tell!
sespress
Well-known member
Agreed, I will reassess after trying the Peptides for sure. I'm going for more bloods soon just a sanity check first. I'm nothing if not careful and flexible.
Do you do anything for hunger control or just time meals?
Movin_weight
Active member
The only time it's an issue is right after pinning, so just time it with meals and you should be fine. Or I like raw cut veggies and light yogurt dip... so having that around helps. Something you can snack on that won't thrash your macros.
sespress
Well-known member
OK so a few complex carbs is OK then. That's good. I know carbs blunt the GH release. I read a thread somewhere where a guy said the first time he pinned W DAC he ended up eating the only thing in the house...6 donughts in 5 minutes. Lol. I thought that must have been extreeme.
sespress
Well-known member
So when I get this flush and then hunger I know I didn't get bunk. However is the CJC/ghrp-2 making me hungry by mimicking Ghrelin or is it making me hungry because the GH release had occurred.. Or both?
Another guy on a form somewhere in the UK said he thinks using it kicked a lingering chest infection he had. I'd not heard about potential healing properties like that before. Is that coincidence from this guy or likely?
Another guy on a form somewhere in the UK said he thinks using it kicked a lingering chest infection he had. I'd not heard about potential healing properties like that before. Is that coincidence from this guy or likely?
sespress
Well-known member
Would you change the peps in any way (other than dropping the DAC as suggested in general) during the cycle to another variety or switch to IGF, or stick with what you working with and continue on? PCT is where I think this stuff is gonna really shine. I'm looking forwards to an enhanced version of the retention capability MK gave me in PCT.
I've got a great deal and I'll have enough CJC no DAC ghrp-2 and frag in the way from one company and the same from another but subbed out the frag for the W DAC in 10mg. So right there I've got two months of W DAC and possible 3 of the W/o. Frag I've got about 3-4 weeks of and I'll grab more soon. Then I need to let the bank card cool off done or it'll melt.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
I would go with both
Movin_weight
Active member
You should try and wait 30min or so minimum before you eat anything, and not have consumed a meal for a couple hours prior. And yeah the hunger can be pretty intense at first, but it gets easier. I can remember putting down 2,000 calories in a sitting which doesn't exactly work well towards fat loss lol.
Expect some water retention while using, but it will dissipate over time. First time I used it I was convinced it was making me gain fat, but soon as I stopped, the water dropped quickly.
sespress
Well-known member
That's not unlike Mk 677 then. I thought the same and then dropped some lb as soon as I stopped. I should have the stuff tomorrow so I'll post back about how many live cows I consumed after first dose.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Subbed, heavy peptide abuser here.
:fingersx:
:fingersx:
hairygrandpa
Legend
rtmilburn , it seems you are very knowledgeable about this subject.
I've planed that protocol:
CJC1295 w dac 1mg/week
CJC1295 no dac 150mcg before sleep ED
IGF 1-DES bilateral 2x70mcg right before workout
MGF PEG after workouts at 150-200mcg
I gonna use it with 300mg test-e/week and 600mg NPP/week for a bulk.
Is that sound? What would you change and why?
I've planed that protocol:
CJC1295 w dac 1mg/week
CJC1295 no dac 150mcg before sleep ED
IGF 1-DES bilateral 2x70mcg right before workout
MGF PEG after workouts at 150-200mcg
I gonna use it with 300mg test-e/week and 600mg NPP/week for a bulk.
Is that sound? What would you change and why?
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Like the set up but I would just up the dose for CJC with dac and drop the without DAC or replace it with ipam or ghrp-2. As adding CJC no DAC won't add much with regular DAC in your system. Whereas adding a grhp like ipam/ghrp-2 will lower somatistatin allowing for the CJC to do more! Once at not for a grhp should be enough but obviously the more the better 3 or 4 times daily is best but not "need" persay.
Something like
CJC1295 w dac 1-2mg/week
Ipam/ghrp-2 200mcg before sleep ED
IGF 1-DES bilateral 2x70mcg right before workout
MGF PEG after workouts at 150-200mcg
Or
CJC1295 w dac 1-2mg/week
Mk 20mgish daily
IGF 1-DES bilateral 2x70mcg right before workout
MGF PEG after workouts at 150-200mcg
I like the second option as the 24 hour action of mk providing the same benefits as the grhps but longer half life but slightly milder. Especially if you are only wanting to do 1 injections instead of 3 or 4 daily with a ghrp.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Thank you!
I'm sitting on 15 x no/dac and 5x w./dac, because the peptide vendor made a mistake. I did not order w/o. dac at all.
Not wanting to pin 3x times a day, I came up with that nightly "reloading", lol. I somehow have to use that 15 vials...damn.
sespress
Well-known member
Heh, my fridge is looking awful lots like a lab right now also.
I got my stuff in and it's definitely for reallz. Immediate flush on the DAC and hunger afterwards. Honestly it's more intense than MK but it's not totally overpowering. I ate dinner about 40 some minutes later and while I actually want to eat again lol I don't think I'm gonna eat the sofa as I alluded to earlier.
I ended up grabbing a peg mgf just cause, when you gents say billateral what are you referring to? Like in the muscles worked on both sides of the body? I might as well use it.
hairygrandpa how does IGF treat you? Have you run it a bunch before?
I got my stuff in and it's definitely for reallz. Immediate flush on the DAC and hunger afterwards. Honestly it's more intense than MK but it's not totally overpowering. I ate dinner about 40 some minutes later and while I actually want to eat again lol I don't think I'm gonna eat the sofa as I alluded to earlier.
I ended up grabbing a peg mgf just cause, when you gents say billateral what are you referring to? Like in the muscles worked on both sides of the body? I might as well use it.
hairygrandpa how does IGF treat you? Have you run it a bunch before?
sespress
Well-known member
OK I just saw you put "billateral" after the IGF not the peg mgf. I must be as tired as I feel. Definitely some lethargy + crap sleep last night. I'm looking forwards to hitting the hay tonight see how the DAC treats my sleep, if it's better than MK sleep I'm gonna be a happy camper.
However the expanse airs tonight and two hour special so I'm like gonna try to stay up. Sci-fi takes precedence over all bodily needs of course!
However the expanse airs tonight and two hour special so I'm like gonna try to stay up. Sci-fi takes precedence over all bodily needs of course!
hairygrandpa
Legend
Really weird how different everyone responds to those things. The CJC/dac -or CJC/no dac doesn't give me hunger -nor a flush but it gives me very vivid dreams and shortens my sleep by half (from 8hrs to 4-5 hrs).
The MGF-PEG I inject in my right front delt where an old injury is, to maximize on it's benefits.
My experience so far is:
IGF-Lr3 had insulin like effects on me, got a bit hypo -and I felt like I couldn't get fat on it, even with a unclean diet. Pump was awesome, no gains noted.
IGF-1 DES I'm new to and will try it shortly.
Edit: MGF-PEG has good healing properties IMHO, noted improvement for my rotator cuff tear, used it together with BPC and worked better together then any of it alone.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Ya then the og plan works I would get a ghrp like mk to go with it tho
sespress
Well-known member
Word. Yeah I had a near narcotic type rush and euphoria, short lived and mild but there. Started to get a bit sweaty. I opened a window and it passed in line 5 minutes. Then I did get hungry immediately.
If you didn't have an injury how would you do the peg mgf? It's still localized right?
hairygrandpa
Legend
Hmmm... AOD9604 has the chain 177-191 and hgh fragment has 176-191.
Frag 176-191 didn't do much when I tried, but a friend of mine swears by it's effectiveness. Wondering if the AOD stuff will work for me.
hairygrandpa
Legend
You would not be wrong using it bilateral -or in the same muscle you used IGF before, I guess. Question is if it's noticeable beneficial. rtmilburn should know more about it.
hairygrandpa
Legend
OK, have some MK left, last time I dropped it because the hunger on it is unbearable. This time it's a bulk
Hunger welcome! Thanks!
sespress
Well-known member
Hmm just saw this:
AOD9604 was originally developed after research on mice, but subsequent studies in human have shown no efficacy
I'm gonna stick to the frag for now! I'll see how my little stack is working in a few weeks. Hopefully the amount of DAC I have planned 3-5mg (depending on hunger issues) doesn't bloat me too much.
I hear less sodium more potassium. Should I go full ape and eat bananas like crazy? Or can anyone recommend a mineral type supp that's heavy in it?
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Bilaterally is best
sespress
Well-known member
Did you try bpc for injury? I hear that's a go to for like injuries from overuse, like tears and such.
Also maybe only some see effects from either "fragment". I hear total mixed reviews on frag 176. So it's possibly it's just there are a lot of non responders.
OK I have to do my nerd prep and watch the last episode of expanse from last season before this gets going. Lol.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
I'll look in to it give me a few days to research it, read some studies, and talk to some people. I know some guys that have tried about everything out there. so if it works they've probably used it.
hairygrandpa
Legend
I recommend BPC for tears and my observation was, that in combination with MGF, I had even better results.
sespress
Well-known member
Word!
Movin_weight
Active member
This is how it should be.... true IGF is muscle selective and should be relatively difficult to gain fat... where as insulin is going to put calories wherever. My exact reason for choosing IGF LR3 for fat loss.... but not especially hypertrophy.
Movin_weight
Active member
Enjoying this thead... no experience with some of the compounds mentioned, but peg-MGF I feel is solely responsible for allowing my calves at least some modern day human development. Legs and calves struggled for 6-7 years, but have come along since said peptides!
Edit:
Just for reference I bounced off PH and designers from 2005-2009 and would be a lean 205-208lb at 6'
Peptides took me from a 205lbs to a 215lb lean and then inject and peptides have me at 230-235lb and 10-11% bf now. (My avatar is 6 years old)
Edit:
Just for reference I bounced off PH and designers from 2005-2009 and would be a lean 205-208lb at 6'
Peptides took me from a 205lbs to a 215lb lean and then inject and peptides have me at 230-235lb and 10-11% bf now. (My avatar is 6 years old)
rtmilburn
Well-known member
As for frag not working. I do not think it is the compound. It is a very very very fragile amino chain if the makers aren't careful in storing and shipping, the user in reconstituting, and also in injections it can "break". Also it is misused this is compound that has to be used on a COMPLETELY empty stomach and immediately exercise after administration.(that fat has to go somewhere) Like fasted cardio or weight lifting or both.
sespress
Well-known member
Ah! See that's not something I had heard. I will try that, next dose is gonna be PWO.
sespress
Well-known member
This is a great thread! Frag is different after reconstituted. It's slightly cloudy, and it's more irritating. I need to dose it alone to see if it is real I think. I'll do that soon.
So I dosed the DAC this afternoon. Great feeling. This evening I went for the ghrp-2. Problem. I got it all in a blend with the no DAC. I felt mega hypo.
This is either bc I need to drop the DAC or the no DAC and get the ghrp-2 alone OR because I shouldn't dose both on the same 24 hour window.
Now I've got the stuff I'm wondering how to use it. I can't function line that. It was not pleasant. I tried to take blood sugar three times. Couldn't get bloods out of the fingers (wierd) and shaky for 30 minutes. When I got it though it was 106. In-between meals by 2 hours. That's normal. So what the heck was that effect?
Should I just go DAC Monday and Thursday 1.5mg and the no DAC ghrp-2 blend 3* daily all other days? I'm gonna try the blend again Friday evening. That will tell me a lot I think. Also thought maybe just have some jerky (good stuff not store bought) before pinning? Like 150cals worth? Or will that still blunt the effect? I can eliminate one or the other also and use my MK instead of / in place of either.
So I dosed the DAC this afternoon. Great feeling. This evening I went for the ghrp-2. Problem. I got it all in a blend with the no DAC. I felt mega hypo.
This is either bc I need to drop the DAC or the no DAC and get the ghrp-2 alone OR because I shouldn't dose both on the same 24 hour window.
Now I've got the stuff I'm wondering how to use it. I can't function line that. It was not pleasant. I tried to take blood sugar three times. Couldn't get bloods out of the fingers (wierd) and shaky for 30 minutes. When I got it though it was 106. In-between meals by 2 hours. That's normal. So what the heck was that effect?
Should I just go DAC Monday and Thursday 1.5mg and the no DAC ghrp-2 blend 3* daily all other days? I'm gonna try the blend again Friday evening. That will tell me a lot I think. Also thought maybe just have some jerky (good stuff not store bought) before pinning? Like 150cals worth? Or will that still blunt the effect? I can eliminate one or the other also and use my MK instead of / in place of either.
sespress
Well-known member
W DAC 3mg/week. 1mg Monday Wednesday Friday.
W/o DAC + ghrp-2 blend 100mcg x3 a day
Trying to figure out what to do with the frag. Just grabbed it cause I had a mega discount code.
I know there's back and forth about the W DAC for men, I decided to go for it and use a ghrp-2 with. However I bought a w/o DAC ghrp-2 blend.
So I'm wondering if there's just too much CJC 1295 flowing around.
I've only so far dosed the 1mg of W DAC and 100mcg of the blend once. I couldn't believe how weak and hypoglycemic I felt. Blood sugar was fine the whole time though.
If you read up I'm trying to figure out if that's normal or I'm just overdoing the CJC. The W DAC didn't hit me like that. The doses were hours apart. So I thought perhaps I should have
1) not used them on the same day or further apart
2) not have gotten the blend at all and no matter how I do it I would have felt bad.
If 1 then I'll work it out where I do the blend on different days. If you think 2 then I gotta pick between the W DAC and w/o blend and work out if I can use the frag or not. If it's possible that the frag won't do this at all I'd prefer to use it. I'm eating 500 in deficit. Except yesterday I destroyed leftovers after that shot, I just know I won't be able to do **** all shaky and weak feeling at work. But like I said my blood sugar count was normal! So I'm just confused and pissed at myself that I grabbed the blend. And like 5 2mg vials of it. I have 3 of the W DAC 10mg.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Honestly I like the set up! The drained feeling is totally normal as that is due to high levels of HGH in you system. Try to ride it out you should be feel normal in 3ish weeks. If not it could be that peps are causing an abnormal levels of pregnenolone, cortisol, aldosterone, and prolactin.
To fix that would i recommend taking
1: taking a adrenal support supp like adrenosurge (if can finds some it's getting pretty rare. good news it's about to be re-released) as this balances cortisol (don't want to high or low both will cause a tiredness) and supports overall adrenal function. As the adrenals play an important role with all sorts of "energy" hormones like epinephrine etc
2: add a pregenolone supplement I recommend 100mg sublingually. This is great for energy and converts to hormones like cortisol but only tends to do so when needed.
3: baby aspirin(81mg) at night this should lower aldosterone
4: take a rose hips supplement again lowers aldosterone
5: take a prolactin inhibitor I would do this last as you most likely won't need it and come with lots of side effects good and bad, but prolactin inhibitors such as caber and parmi also increase hgh. If you go with this use a VERY low dose.
sespress
Well-known member
OK good to know. I thought it'd be a good setup too! I'll try to ride it out. I'm taking a cortisol inhibitor right now v11-kt and Invictus. Transdermals. They've been a big part of this cut. I've got prami on hand, I haven't had sensitive nips though so I think I'm good there. I've read a lot about pregenelone, I honestly wasn't sure about it. Kinda like DHEA it can convert so I've not done it.
I was thinking of tossing 500mg of Epi-Andro for energy. I know that's supression, so I'd have to consider this a cycle now. But my blood is good on all that so I am ready to go in that regard.
I'll see if I can swing some preg this pay period. Might have to wait a week. I really broke the bank stocking up lol.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Then your issue may very well be to low cortisol for sure. Remember low cortisol fuks your sleep quality! Try going 4 day without it and see if it improves. Pregnenolone is gold imo
I don't now enough but it seems like it could so it's worth a shot.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Shouldn't it would only increase it. Although hgh its self can make you tired added that to the low cortisol plus the increased aldosterone and the possible increase in prolactin you are kinda creating a perfect storm for lethargy