Sfreed's gettin' strong on OL Andro and stuff unsponsored log

mmorso said:
lol I swear that every time I break a plateau and am starting to slap more weight on my lifts, I have to go visit family... I just had to take 10 days off and my workout yesterday was pathetic. Frustrating
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Dam it you are going to jinks me.
 
So I'm still kicking around this diet change, and the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about the Tank999 version of the Vince Gironda steak and eggs diet. Two meals a day with 250 grams of ground beef and 5 eggs cooked in 1 tablespoon of butter puts me at 2,254 kcal. 158gr Fat, 152gr Protein and 6gr Carbs. Every 7th day is a carb re-feed.

I see two problems with this; First and foremost, I AM NOT VINCE GIRONDA. Second, I'm not sure that I can do the low carb thing.

Any thoughts on this?
 
SFreed said:
So I'm still kicking around this diet change, and the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about the Tank999 version of the Vince Gironda steak and eggs diet. Two meals a day with 250 grams of ground beef and 5 eggs cooked in 1 tablespoon of butter puts me at 2,254 kcal. 158gr Fat, 152gr Protein and 6gr Carbs. Every 7th day is a carb re-feed.

I see two problems with this; First and foremost, I AM NOT VINCE GIRONDA. Second, I'm not sure that I can do the low carb thing.

Any thoughts on this?
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How do you get your other 50 grams of protein? shakes?
 
SFreed said:
So I'm still kicking around this diet change, and the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about the Tank999 version of the Vince Gironda steak and eggs diet. Two meals a day with 250 grams of ground beef and 5 eggs cooked in 1 tablespoon of butter puts me at 2,254 kcal. 158gr Fat, 152gr Protein and 6gr Carbs. Every 7th day is a carb re-feed.

I see two problems with this; First and foremost, I AM NOT VINCE GIRONDA. Second, I'm not sure that I can do the low carb thing.

Any thoughts on this?
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I think you have to suck it up until your body gets use to using fat for energy? I maybe wrong.
 
Both good questions. Shakes would be an easy way, but then my calories would jump some as well.

Hoping the king of weight loss and dieting HIT4ME stops in
 
Studhorse said:
How do you get your other 50 grams of protein? shakes?
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Looks like a keto setup... if his protein was higher, he'd get thrown out of ketosis due to glyconeogenisis...

Keto is great for cutting up and maintaining LBM whilst in a caloric deficit, but I think it's damn near impossible to put on any LBM while doing a ketogenic diet....

Also, if you're on gear, why would you not want to take advantage of the most anabolic hormone in the human body (insulin), when you're going to be getting better nutrient partitioning from the gear?

IMO carb cycling seems to be a better option when running gear: having days of high, moderate, and low carbs...
 
mmorso said:
Looks like a keto setup... if his protein was higher, he'd get thrown out of ketosis due to glyconeogenisis...

Keto is great for cutting up and maintaining LBM whilst in a caloric deficit, but I think it's damn near impossible to put on any LBM while doing a ketogenic diet....

Also, if you're on gear, why would you not want to take advantage of the most anabolic hormone in the human body (insulin), when you're going to be getting better nutrient partitioning from the gear?

IMO carb cycling seems to be a better option when running gear: having days of high, moderate, and low carbs...
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I know someone would know what they are talking about.
I just try to hit my Cals and Protein numbers everyday. Try to keep most of my carbs 2hrs. before and no more than 1 hr. after the gym. note the word TRY!
 
Studhorse said:
I know someone would know what they are talking about.
I just try to hit my Cals and Protein numbers everyday. Try to keep most of my carbs 2hrs. before and no more than 1 hr. after the gym. note the word TRY!
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Ketosis is when the body runs on ketones (fat byproduct) for energy rather than with glycogen (carb byproduct). This happens when insulin levels are extremely low...

Anyway, excess protein will be converted into glycogen by a process called glyconeogenisis... this will kick you out of ketosis
 
Personally, if you aren't putting on fat, you should leave your diet alone, especially on cycle. You are getting stronger. There isn't anything wrong with glycogen storage. It gives you energy for your next workout and pumps during your workout. If you aren't accruing fat, ride it out instead of stressing. Glycogen storage also promotes a constant pumped feeling.
 
Thanks guys. I knew some of you would be able to help with this.
 
mmorso said:
Looks like a keto setup... if his protein was higher, he'd get thrown out of ketosis due to glyconeogenisis...

Keto is great for cutting up and maintaining LBM whilst in a caloric deficit, but I think it's damn near impossible to put on any LBM while doing a ketogenic diet....

Also, if you're on gear, why would you not want to take advantage of the most anabolic hormone in the human body (insulin), when you're going to be getting better nutrient partitioning from the gear?

IMO carb cycling seems to be a better option when running gear: having days of high, moderate, and low carbs...
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I tried carb cycling for a couple of weeks. It was actually kinda neat. On my high carb day I could actually feel my body pumping up like I was at the gym. Cool as hell.
 
SFreed said:
So I'm still kicking around this diet change, and the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about the Tank999 version of the Vince Gironda steak and eggs diet. Two meals a day with 250 grams of ground beef and 5 eggs cooked in 1 tablespoon of butter puts me at 2,254 kcal. 158gr Fat, 152gr Protein and 6gr Carbs. Every 7th day is a carb re-feed.

I see two problems with this; First and foremost, I AM NOT VINCE GIRONDA. Second, I'm not sure that I can do the low carb thing.

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

SFreed said:
Both good questions. Shakes would be an easy way, but then my calories would jump some as well.

Hoping the king of weight loss and dieting HIT4ME stops in
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mmorso said:
Looks like a keto setup... if his protein was higher, he'd get thrown out of ketosis due to glyconeogenisis...

Keto is great for cutting up and maintaining LBM whilst in a caloric deficit, but I think it's damn near impossible to put on any LBM while doing a ketogenic diet....

Also, if you're on gear, why would you not want to take advantage of the most anabolic hormone in the human body (insulin), when you're going to be getting better nutrient partitioning from the gear?

IMO carb cycling seems to be a better option when running gear: having days of high, moderate, and low carbs...
Click to expand...

Ok, so - being the "king" is actually a lot of pressure. The stress is getting to me, and I really couldn't handle it - so I decided to let some smarter people respond first - so they can't disagree with me later - I will just nod and say - YES! WHAT THEY SAID!

Now, the amazing part of what I do is that I'm about to write this incredible, rambling, non-linear and astoundingly long winded response to your question when I really know very little. So here goes.

I've been playing with the low carb thing. It's mentally challenging, but has some REAL benefits. Namely, I have found that increasing my fats has a paradoxical effect. If I am shooting for 2,200 calories and eat a lot of fats, I'm actually feeling full at that intake. If I drop the fats, I wind up hitting the 2200 and then cheating a little. I've noticed that on high fats, I can go to the store and walk past things that are complete weaknesses for me (like a peanut butter dessert of any kind) and where I would normally want it so badly I'd buy it and eat the entire thing I really don't even want it or I can buy it and eat it like a normal person and just a have a little.

On the other hand - doing a straight fast was actually easier than watching carbs. On a fast where you are eating 800 calories, if you screw up a little and eat 1200 - you still achieve your goal. On a low carb diet, if you screw up and have some extra carbs you knock yourself out of ketosis and mentally, this can be a challenge for me. It can leave you feeling like you're starting all over the next day just because you had one mix up. It isn't REALLY like that but mentally it can be a drag.

Another upside of low-carb - you can play with a lot of normally bad for you foods and modify them to be high-fat, high protein and low carb. Cheesecake comes to mind.

Your plan, to me, sounds simple and sound. You may find that just having a plan makes it easier to follow. If you spend your day preparing to eat your next meal that is planned precisely, it changes your mindset from spending the day wondering what and when your next meal is (in this case it becomes ANYTHING and NOW). Don't sell yourself short on the low carb thing - you may not get it right away. I've been trying off and on for about 5 weeks now...and I'm just starting to feel like I may be able to do this. I know you can do it too.

Now, having said all that - aren't you bulking? I think you're being a bit too cautious - which I actually agree with to an extent. I feel like everyone on AM thinks that bulking requires some ginormous surplus and dieting should only be done at 500 cal/day deficits. To be honest, the way I see it - you have a surplus already built in - stored fat. Sure, you don't have much of a surplus in your case, but you still have SOME. This can supplement your calorie pool if your diet falls short, and I honestly think we all like to believe that our body can't use bodyfat for calories while bulking but this notion is pretty ridiculous I think.

Your approach to be within 100-300 calories of TDEE is very sound for bulking, IMO. You will put on a little fat like this...you are in a surplus. But you will also ensure your body has what you need for growth and your hormonal signaling will be saying, "We've got plenty - just build the muscle and store some fat".

At the end of the day, I think this is what people need to learn:

1. Successful diets have two factors that determine everything the outcome - Calories and Protein.

2. Different strategies will change the process of getting to those outcomes. As I said above - higher fats will increase satiety and higher carbs will improve intense exercise slightly (although this may be overrated once you adapt?)

3. Have a plan that you can stick to, measure, and adjust. If you don't have plan, when you don't get the result you want you don't know why. If you are sticking to a plan and don't get the result, you can tweak it. Just have a plan and commit to it.
 
HIT4ME I agree with 99% of everything your saying except that being in a 100-300kcal surplus will result in a little fat gain..

That's actually recomp kcals IMO

I think 500kcal surplus might result in a little fat gain if macros, meal timing etc aren't dialed in...

Now that's how it works for guys that are all natty... I think drugs will help lessen the margin of error to a certain degree, but still clean eating and around a 500kcal surplus should really not result in much fat gain at all

I might be wrong here but that's how I understand it anyway...
 
mmorso said:
HIT4ME I agree with 99% of everything your saying except that being in a 100-300kcal surplus will result in a little fat gain..

That's actually recomp kcals IMO

I think 500kcal surplus might result in a little fat gain if macros, meal timing etc aren't dialed in...

Now that's how it works for guys that are all natty... I think drugs will help lessen the margin of error to a certain degree, but still clean eating and around a 500kcal surplus should really not result in much fat gain at all

I might be wrong here but that's how I understand it anyway...
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You could be right in reality, due to some factor that I am unaware of, or the fact that you actually NEED the 300 calories extra do build the muscle, etc. - but I've never had bulking experience so I'm just going off theory on my end and if you're in a surplus, your body has to do something with the calories and won't want to waste them - but even if you don't need 200 of those 300 calories that's 2 pounds of fat a month tops, pretty slow IMO.

But, you probably have more actual bulking experience and I only have these ideas in my head. So in other words, I just made it all up and you have tested it. haha.
 
HIT4ME said:
You could be right in reality, due to some factor that I am unaware of, or the fact that you actually NEED the 300 calories extra do build the muscle, etc. - but I've never had bulking experience so I'm just going off theory on my end and if you're in a surplus, your body has to do something with the calories and won't want to waste them - but even if you don't need 200 of those 300 calories that's 2 pounds of fat a month tops, pretty slow IMO.

But, you probably have more actual bulking experience and I only have these ideas in my head. So in other words, I just made it all up and you have tested it. haha.
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Well brother I'll be honest with you; my bulk wasn't really successful in keeping BF down. I gained a LOT of BF but I did go into a huge surplus 800-1000kcals... I also stopped doing cardio.. even going on walks

At the time my lifts were going up and I thought "fck yeah I'm getting ripped" and had this mania going on from the drugs. Lol

Also, taking LGD and MK677 for a recomp is the most retarded idea in the world... I was hungry ALL THE TIME!!

Next cycle I run I'm going to be ridiculously strict with my diet and try to eat slightly above maintainence...
 
Good points from all you guys. It's a good thing I'm part of the Spooner Street crew, I'm too ignorant to make this on my own!

And you're partially correct HIT4ME. I had approached this with the mindset that I didn't really care what the scale said, just how I felt. Up my calories a little, hit my protein numbers and I'd be golden. Then a week in and I stepped on the scale to find I'm gaining weight. WTF??? How could I gain weight that quickly? Like I said before, as a Former Fat Guy, I was concerned.

Now I'll throw another one at you; Had some stomach issues yesterday so food was no bueno. Total food intake for the day was 2/3 cup oatmeal prepared with sugar free almond milkand 1 scoop PES Select, and 2 containers of sugar free jello. Which makes for a total of about 850 ish calories.
Today, scratch the oatmeal (it didn't sit too well yesterday), but add another jello. Not enough calories to even matter. Probably managed 1 1/2 gallons of water both days combined. Was actually feeling better by early afternoon, so left work and went to the gym for 2 x 10 of 80% 10 rep max. Hit all my numbers and increased weights and reps on the second set. Stepped on the scale.....200 pounds. Up 2 pounds! Went into the locker room and tried another scale, same thing. I honestly am at a loss trying to understand this weight gain.
 
Try to in AT LEAST a gallon jug a day. Don't drink on it at the gym. That doesn't count. Don't use that gallon jug to make drinks. That doesn't count. If you get that gallon jug down and use other sources for your drinks, you will be then sitting at a gallon and a quarter, gallon and a half. You'll be getting rid of more water even though you are taking in that much.
 
SFreed, honestly it seems counter intuitive but this is exactly why I weigh myself 2-3 times a day. Having a plan where you have some faith in the outcome and constant monitoring helps you actually OVER come the anxiety of the scale. You start to see...I weighed myself this morning and ate and then weighed myself and 2 pounds went on after eating a 400 calorie meal...has to be water. After seeing this enough you start to become more comfortable although it is a mind fck forever.

I know this. If my diet is on lockdown and I am trying to lose weight, I sometimes go days where I don't lose anything or even gain a little with no explanation. I am OK with this because I KNOW my diet is on lockdown . If you are confident in your plan, and confident you are sticking to it...then keep at it.
 
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Be. Be the scale. Danny.
You do it. I can't. I'm a veg.
Nanowannnanananoawanno. Dattadatawannana.

Oh and your going to have to change your name to Danny for this to work.
 
ryane87 said:
Try to in AT LEAST a gallon jug a day. Don't drink on it at the gym. That doesn't count. Don't use that gallon jug to make drinks. That doesn't count. If you get that gallon jug down and use other sources for your drinks, you will be then sitting at a gallon and a quarter, gallon and a half. You'll be getting rid of more water even though you are taking in that much.
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This is exactly what I do. I keep a gallon container that I fill with water, a package of crystal light and 5 grams vitamin C and drink it through the day. I also have coffee, drinks away from home, drinks while I workout. Some days I do all that and make another gallon. It's just a good habit.
 
All valid points. I know I need to drink more water. My pants fit the same, so I'm pretty sure I'm not just putting fat on my belly. I have a hard time believing that I'm adding muscle that quickly, but that and the glycogen ryane87 mentioned makes the most sense. I do feel more "pumped" for a longer period. And even with the illness and poor sleep, my strength is up. I keep thinking about everything else I've ever done and supplements I've taken that had minimal effects, and basing this Andro stack on that. Which obviously is incorrect.
 
justhere4comm said:
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Be. Be the scale. Danny.
You do it. I can't. I'm a veg.
Nanowannnanananoawanno. Dattadatawannana.

Oh and your going to have to change your name to Danny for this to work.
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Awesome. Best part is I run a lumberyard.
 
ryane87 said:
Try to in AT LEAST a gallon jug a day. Don't drink on it at the gym. That doesn't count. Don't use that gallon jug to make drinks. That doesn't count. If you get that gallon jug down and use other sources for your drinks, you will be then sitting at a gallon and a quarter, gallon and a half. You'll be getting rid of more water even though you are taking in that much.
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And thanks for leaving your signature line!!
 
mmorso said:
SFreed it sounds like your gaining muscle bro... I wouldn't be too concerned.

Start measuring your waist every few days.
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And I'll have you know I have not had a single PBR since I started this. And being sick made me cancel the trip to the Mexican Restaurant, so no Molcajete and margaritas.

Did you see the new "Merica pre-workout??
 
SFreed said:
And I'll have you know I have not had a single PBR since I started this. And being sick made me cancel the trip to the Mexican Restaurant, so no Molcajete and margaritas.

Did you see the new "Merica pre-workout??
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What? 'Merica pwo? Where?
 
If it was like real cheap it wouldn't be bad. It is entirely too expensive for that poop profile....lol it almost, ALMOST makes me lose my freedom boner in disappointment. Then, I remember that I live out in BFE in 'Murica!
 
SFreed said:
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I imagine if we allowed the King of Memes to name some supplements, this is along the lines of what he would come up with. Or better. Haha
 
ryane87 said:
If it was like real cheap it wouldn't be bad. It is entirely too expensive for that poop profile....lol it almost, ALMOST makes me lose my freedom boner in disappointment. Then, I remember that I live out in BFE in 'Murica!
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Yep, I almost bought some just for shyts and giggles. But you're right about the profile, solid pooh. When it goes on sale, I'll be all over it
 
HIT4ME said:
I imagine if we allowed the King of Memes to name some supplements, this is along the lines of what he would come up with. Or better. Haha
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Almost sounds like a challenge
 
SFreed said:
Almost sounds like a challenge
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Lol, almost. Except the gold you would come up with....I would want to get it out there for real
 
SFreed said:
So I'm still kicking around this diet change, and the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about the Tank999 version of the Vince Gironda steak and eggs diet. Two meals a day with 250 grams of ground beef and 5 eggs cooked in 1 tablespoon of butter puts me at 2,254 kcal. 158gr Fat, 152gr Protein and 6gr Carbs. Every 7th day is a carb re-feed.

I see two problems with this; First and foremost, I AM NOT VINCE GIRONDA. Second, I'm not sure that I can do the low carb thing.

Any thoughts on this?
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The first 2 weeks will stick the worst, but make sure you use PLENTY OF SALT or else you will feel like crap. As time goes on you're craving for carbs will gradually go away and to help get by there's lots of recipes for things you may crave like pizza. Just hit me up and I'll hook you up with some good ones.
 
Week two (plus a couple days) pics. I hate posting pictures of my self shirtless at this point. I was a short fat kid in High School, so when I look at myself I still see a short fat kid. I guess like a lot of people, all I see is the bad stuff. But, gotta put up a few pics, right?

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Weight is still hanging at 200. Trying to convince myself to just forget about it, stick with my diet and see where it ends up.

Today was supposed to be an off day, so abs and cardio. I ended up breaking the HST program and hit a few weights. Was surprised with a feI usually don't put the actual weights I lift, mainly out of embarrassment. You guys are just sooo much stronger than me, so I just keep it to myself. My 10 rep max for incline db bench is I 65 pounds. Today, I did 13 @ 65, 10 @ 70 and 6 @ 75! All lifts are going up, which is actually what I was hoping for, but now I gotta get this weight thing figured out.
 
SFreed said:
Weight is still hanging at 200. Trying to convince myself to just forget about it, stick with my diet and see where it ends up.

Today was supposed to be an off day, so abs and cardio. I ended up breaking the HST program and hit a few weights. Was surprised with a feI usually don't put the actual weights I lift, mainly out of embarrassment. You guys are just sooo much stronger than me, so I just keep it to myself. My 10 rep max for incline db bench is I 65 pounds. Today, I did 13 @ 65, 10 @ 70 and 6 @ 75! All lifts are going up, which is actually what I was hoping for, but now I gotta get this weight thing figured out.
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Nice job.. keep those weights moving up. and brother I hear you about only seeing the negatives when you look in the mirror.. But hey thats what drives us never once have I liked what ive seen in mirror. still see the same fat a@@ lol.. Keep up the good work..
 
And if the weight thing is really bothering you, which looking at your pics I wouldn't worry, but if it is.. through a quick high intensity cardio in right after you are done lifting. like 15 minutes max just keep it a very high level.. it works for me.
 
SFreed said:
Week two (plus a couple days) pics. I hate posting pictures of my self shirtless at this point. I was a short fat kid in High School, so when I look at myself I still see a short fat kid. I guess like a lot of people, all I see is the bad stuff. But, gotta put up a few pics, right?

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way to post some noodz! looking good brother.
 
SFreed said:
Weight is still hanging at 200. Trying to convince myself to just forget about it, stick with my diet and see where it ends up.

Today was supposed to be an off day, so abs and cardio. I ended up breaking the HST program and hit a few weights. Was surprised with a feI usually don't put the actual weights I lift, mainly out of embarrassment. You guys are just sooo much stronger than me, so I just keep it to myself. My 10 rep max for incline db bench is I 65 pounds. Today, I did 13 @ 65, 10 @ 70 and 6 @ 75! All lifts are going up, which is actually what I was hoping for, but now I gotta get this weight thing figured out.
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Looks like you are throwing some weight around to me. Note: dont try to keep up with BEAST73 and FireTitan when it comes to weight. you will end up like me. in the hospital.
 
SFreed said:
Weight is still hanging at 200. Trying to convince myself to just forget about it, stick with my diet and see where it ends up.

Today was supposed to be an off day, so abs and cardio. I ended up breaking the HST program and hit a few weights. Was surprised with a feI usually don't put the actual weights I lift, mainly out of embarrassment. You guys are just sooo much stronger than me, so I just keep it to myself. My 10 rep max for incline db bench is I 65 pounds. Today, I did 13 @ 65, 10 @ 70 and 6 @ 75! All lifts are going up, which is actually what I was hoping for, but now I gotta get this weight thing figured out.
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HST quitter!
 
Studhorse said:
HST quitter!
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I knew you were gonna bust my balls for that one! Couldn't help it. Finished my cardio, was working on abs and noticed nobody was in the free weight room. Next thing you know I'm halfway thru an unscheduled HST workout, thinking "Oh man... Studhorse is gonna be pissed"
 
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