BCAA/EAA's HOW OFTEN DO YOU TAKE THEM (or not at all)
- Thread starter macedog24
- Start date
S.Dedication
Member
I use Xtend everyday until I break my fast and during my workouts. My favorite flavors are lemon lime and blue raspberry.
I feel it helps me go harder and longer in the gym. I also feel it helps preserve muscle during my fasting (IF) and helps with recovery. Took a month off at one point and I was sore much longer after my sessions. It also helps me drink more water, so it's a win win.
I usually do the 90 servings off Amazon for around 40 dollars. Two scoops when I wake up into a water bottle and two scoops during my workout.
Looking at my orders going back to 2014, I have ordered on average 12/13 containers a year lol probably the best customer they have
man I should add these orders up and see exactly how much I spend a year on Xtend.
I feel it helps me go harder and longer in the gym. I also feel it helps preserve muscle during my fasting (IF) and helps with recovery. Took a month off at one point and I was sore much longer after my sessions. It also helps me drink more water, so it's a win win.
I usually do the 90 servings off Amazon for around 40 dollars. Two scoops when I wake up into a water bottle and two scoops during my workout.
Looking at my orders going back to 2014, I have ordered on average 12/13 containers a year lol probably the best customer they have
man I should add these orders up and see exactly how much I spend a year on Xtend.
macedog24
Board Sponsor
haha I know that feeling.I use Xtend everyday until I break my fast and during my workouts. My favorite flavors are lemon lime and blue raspberry.
I feel it helps me go harder and longer in the gym. I also feel it helps preserve muscle during my fasting (IF) and helps with recovery. Took a month off at one point and I was sore much longer after my sessions. It also helps me drink more water, so it's a win win.
I usually do the 90 servings off Amazon for around 40 dollars. Two scoops when I wake up into a water bottle and two scoops during my workout.
Looking at my orders going back to 2014, I have ordered on average 12/13 containers a year lol probably the best customer they have
i use to have a gallon of water I kept with me at work I put 2 scoops of the old vpx powershock into there (fruit punch or grape) and I would Drink it during work. would also take a gallon with me to the gym the same way.
I work a lot, but also workout at work, and the gym . I run a lot also at work.
it was great. definitely not a big difference when I stopped. it contained both eaa/BCAA so was looking for a replacement.
purple wrath contains both, or just get something like xtend and add the rest to it.
ManimalPatB
Well-known member
I usually do my BCAAs during my gym session.
I switch off between Iforce Compete, Formutech Endurance, and if I want carbs as my intra, I will use Size On from Gaspari
Xtend is also a good product as well
I switch off between Iforce Compete, Formutech Endurance, and if I want carbs as my intra, I will use Size On from Gaspari
Xtend is also a good product as well
macedog24
Board Sponsor
what do u like better juicy grape or the purple lemonade.
also. i mainly comsume them during a recomp. lower calories keeping my protein high and carb cycle. it is optimal for retaining muscle during a deficit .
tyga tyga
Legend
I've only had the purple lemonade (90 Serv)
I liked it. I actually used purple wrath through my contest prep (again, only when training)
I ate every 3hrs or so, so no need to supplement with bcaa/eaa (protein refractory period is 4hrs iirc)
macedog24
Board Sponsor
understand fully. there is no need if your meeting your required intake. but for me at times. my jobs you eat as you go. there is no "breaks" they require constant attention. and you cannot eat just anywhere. so there are days they make a huge difference. also, when in a deficite. to give ya that extra energy you might not normally have and be able to push harder , and longer than you would otherwise.
ECUKingbuddy
Member
VPX Powershock was soo good.
I however only take BCAA's on a cut where I am really limiting my Cals. Right now I am using Gaspari Nutrition HyperAmino.
macedog24
Board Sponsor
yes and the taste were awesome.
I'm gonna order some purple wrath now.
see how it compares.
Monte_Cristo
Member
I usually get them unflavoured and mix some in my preworkout so its 2 scoops aminoenergy + 2 scoops bcaa.
Can tell the difference in terms of endurance, intensity and recover both intra workout and post workout.
Recently I moved to vasomax as preworkout to focus on pump so I just drink my bcaa during training to avoid putting too much stuff in my stomach togheter.
Some guys here told me that bcaa intra workout have no real benefit but personally I notice the difference.
Can tell the difference in terms of endurance, intensity and recover both intra workout and post workout.
Recently I moved to vasomax as preworkout to focus on pump so I just drink my bcaa during training to avoid putting too much stuff in my stomach togheter.
Some guys here told me that bcaa intra workout have no real benefit but personally I notice the difference.
macedog24
Board Sponsor
my cheat meal would be on a sat or sunday. i would carb cycle and do that refeed. boom went the metabolism..
and get up hit THE gym fasted. take my aminos in a gallon jug of water. then head to work, while at work do some HIIT 2 or 3 times for 25-35 minutes . then id work 12 or 14 hrs . depending on the time. golds wouldnt open til 5am. so id work 14hrs often times .this way id leave and go to the gym right after work again. take another gallon of water with aminos.
The Solution
Legend
There is no need to "Sip" on amino's all day long. That is basically equivilent to eating chicken every 10-15 minutes and constantly spiking amino levels and never allowing them to reach their baseline. The goal is to allow protein levels to reach their refractory stages before spiking them again. Another reason why research has pointed out to spacing meals further apart and using BCAA's between meals (3g leucine) to spike MPS to get the best of both worlds.
BCAA's may benefit you for fasted AM Training dosed pre-workout or as a bolus between meals 4-6 hours apart
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If you are meeting protein intake the additional need for BCAA's is minimal. Its just added protein at 6kcal's/serving from a supplement. So generally most people are throwing away their money to flavor their water or sip on a beverage when they are already in a fed state.
Fasted training 10g prior to training would be beneficial. as stated:
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I personally train fasted upon waking due to work schedule. When i train in the afternoon I don't drink BCAA's. Just not worth it.
The reason some people may feel a "Recovery" boost is due to the added ingedients in many BCAA Products --> Citrulline, Glutamine, LCLT, Synerglut that may be contained which has aspects towards performance, endurance, and recovery. Also Peak02 is in a major brand now which has an impact on all of those features. For the most part drinking more powders or swallowing more pills won't be the answer to recovery. And even though you feel "Safer" Doing so .. it may not be beneficial to yourself or your wallet.
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"Of the various studies administering BCAAs or leucine to humans for varying periods of time and amount, the results have been consistent. In addition, no untoward effects have been reported in any of these studies from infusion of the BCAAs at upward 3 times basal flux or 6 times normal dietary intake during the fed portion of the day."
macedog24
Board Sponsor
there is a reason to sip on aminos throughout the day. as I stated in a previous post before the one above
and that is when you CANNOT meet your caloric intake and/or are in a deficit. throughout your day.
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above is a graph of nutritional values for about 3-4oz. of chicken broken down .
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so explain to me how siping on the above, the equivalent of 10-12grams of protein through out an8-12hr day of work is equal to eating
1 piece of chicken every 10-15minutes. this is the equivalent of eating
4 pieces of chicken every hour .or
32 pieces of chicken in 8 hrs.
48 pieces of chicken in 12hrs.
the statement you said is not true u cannot compare sipping on 1 gallon of water with 1-2 scoops of aminos to eating 32-48 pieces of chicken. in a 8-12hr work window. when food is not available and your constantly moving, using your body and soaked due to the heat and loss of fluids.
macedog24
Board Sponsor
this is great info ! well appreciated and thank you for joining in . im glad you took the time to help inform everyone and educate everyone on and about aminos and benefits. again my statement are geared toward being in a caloric deficit and not being able to meet your daily nutritional requirements.
The Solution
Legend
If you cant meet your intake you need to eat more food. I work 10-12 hour days 5x a week. Pack a protein bar, pack yogurt, pack whey protein. You can easily slam a shake to help reach protein intake. To say you can't eat or get in enough calories (especially in a deficit) is far from true.
Eat before work, eat after work, pack things that are quick and portable while at work even if you are on your feet all day. Just because you are in a deficit does not mean you need to take X or Y Products. Sure anyone cuting can take BCAA's same with those bulking. The only time I would suggest using them at a meal is if you cannot get enough protein from direct sources (mostly coming from trace sources like cheese, bread, nuts) and you need to supplement Aminos to reach 3g leucine for proper Muscle Protein Synthesis at each meal. Most people eat plenty of protein or get enough via whole foods/protein powder.
I don't even get a lunch, that does not mean I can't still reach my protein intake via whole foods when your dieting and you are most likely hungry due to satiety from less calories then your body needs.
What is more satisfying a powder or a whole food protein source? Whole food protein sources also contain far more micronutrients then a amino based protein product that is heavily processed in order to be made.
Again SIPPING On aminos is constantly spiking Muscle Protein Synthesis compared to eating daily meals spaced out which is more optimal for Muscle Protein Synthesis. Sure you can use sipping aminos to meet protein intake, but its not as beneficial for MPS or constantly spiking amino's/insulin levels throughout the entire day. There is more benefit to allow them to reset before being spiked again as you can clearly see in the powerpoint/research below..
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^^ Optimal Protein Intake and Meal Frequency to support protein syntheisis. There is a reason people don't just sip on amino's all day long anymore, there is not much research or merit to doing so.
I remember Mr Cooper put this best:
"BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar. So when you sip on BCAAs instead of sugary drinks...you replace blood sugar with insulin.""
macedog24
Board Sponsor
first let start off like this.
1 i dont start trouble or cause problems. or argue for the sake of argueing.
2 . just because you work 5 days a week and can get your needed required calories and protein in doesnt mean someone else can. (this isnt even about me) BUT
i work 7days a week, sometimes go a month or more without a day off. i work swing shift also. normally avg 80-96 hrs a week. except when business slows down. (like now)
you obviously havent read my earlier post.
on my job, there is no break time. this is a constantly attended job. i eat when i can.
but i cannot whip out food or drinks anywhere in this plant except for designates eating areas.
another thing money dictates what you eat , how much you eat, quality of food. also, i support a family of 8. on one income.
i support a wife with lupus, and a few children with serious medical conditions.
which one income takes care of. so when something has to be cut or changes need to be made. you dont take away from the children or wife to make sure my own needs are met. so i dont take food out of the mouths of my children or my sick wife to put in my own. it will never happen!
just so you understand where im coming from. ( again this is just an example because you cannot just assume someone isnt eating. or is being lazy or doesnt understand whole food is far better than supplementing to meet your required macro and nutrient intake. or doesn't understand about bloodsugar, and spiking there insulin.
i understand everything your saying and agree with most except for your assumptions. you never know the situation of the other person. so you cannot just always assume someone is being lazy, or has a lack of discipline, and knowledge.
again. i stated in earlier post. i would work out at work and get in 3 sessions of HIIT.
so i would take a gallon of water and mix in some bcaa/eaa .(for when im working out at work) again, not all day.! so if this was misconveyed on my end (my bad) also this never replaced meals!!
but honestly, not one time did i say i drink aminos ALL DAY,
NOT ONE TIME DID I SAY I REPLACE MEALs WITH AMINOS. or SUGGEST ANYONE TO DO SO. that would be horrible to suggest and actually dangerous at times.
aminos are great to take when fasting to help retain muscle or when going to the gym right after waking up from sleeping
all night . they will provide you WITH the
fuel you need to power through your work out , and help keep you from going into a catabolic state.
The Solution
Legend
Amino's are better to be taken as a bolus between meals spaced 4-6 hours apart. regardless of your work schedule, or how busy you truly are. If you can "Sip on Amino's" you would be better off just having a shake (mix it in a water bottle or pre-mix it in a shaker) and just drink it in seconds at work.
The water bottle and whey would be far easier especially given your lifestyle, and it would be much more practical from a Muscle Protein Synthesis standpoint instead of constantly spiking amino's levels and insulin levels from sipping on BCAA's, or carrying around a jug and drinking it like you have stated you do at work.
Let me quote you
Glucose and carbs provide fuel to the body. Aminos are free forms of protein. They won't give energy. They will help prevent the breakdown of going catabolic due to their ingestion and being instantly absorbed. There is no "Fuel" Associated towards BCAA's unless you were in a surplus and you are intaking more calories then you need when protein would be converted to glucose due to the abundance of calories in the body and converting it to glucose.
That is the only association of fuel with BCAA's unless your BCAA has added carbs in the formula, or were in such a caloric surplus and the over abundance of calories converts to glucose (which you talk about being in a deficit so it would be the opposite).
I agree they are great for fasting, and as I have tried to post and show you via research they would be beneficial in your situation dosing them between meals 4-6 hours apart given your schedule.
but thats taking away from the point of the thread on when it is important to take BCAA's/EAA's and your opinion on sipping them. I was just trying to clear that up.
macedog24
Board Sponsor
haha. ok your making this about me. i drink my shakes i eat my meals.
i will have to show you my food log.
to answer your statement rather than a question. where i work. you cannot have anything other than( clear) water in the areas of work. that is why you see aminos in water. when on a job for hours at a time without a break. it must be clear and in. a see through container (no glass allowed also). now i again i do eat my 5-6meals and get my shakes. rtd or make my own.
so if i do 2 a days. gym time twice a day.
say 1.5 hrs at a time. you dont think drinking bcaa/eaa will help?
the statement says i would drink it during work. not all day . or all day at work.again( but when i workout or am on a job that you cannot leave for 3-4hrs ) and are sweating and losing nutrients and expending energy constantly.)water alone doesnt cut it. you can only have clear liquid in a see through container. (period) hopefully you now can understand what im saying . i dont have clear protein. do you? if so show me where i will get some. i usually go with ON for my
protein needs. i mix it with water but it isnt clear and i cannot have it on any floor. i work in a food manufacturing plant. many stipulations. if broken you can and will lose your job.
i will have to show you my food log.
to answer your statement rather than a question. where i work. you cannot have anything other than( clear) water in the areas of work. that is why you see aminos in water. when on a job for hours at a time without a break. it must be clear and in. a see through container (no glass allowed also). now i again i do eat my 5-6meals and get my shakes. rtd or make my own.
so if i do 2 a days. gym time twice a day.
say 1.5 hrs at a time. you dont think drinking bcaa/eaa will help?
the statement says i would drink it during work. not all day . or all day at work.again( but when i workout or am on a job that you cannot leave for 3-4hrs ) and are sweating and losing nutrients and expending energy constantly.)water alone doesnt cut it. you can only have clear liquid in a see through container. (period) hopefully you now can understand what im saying . i dont have clear protein. do you? if so show me where i will get some. i usually go with ON for my
protein needs. i mix it with water but it isnt clear and i cannot have it on any floor. i work in a food manufacturing plant. many stipulations. if broken you can and will lose your job.
macedog24
Board Sponsor
Bcaa' s , a better understanding / muscle sparing/ fatloss
While most amino acids are metabolized in the liver BCAAs are metabolized primarily by muscle. Despite their structural similarities the three branched chain amino acids have different metabolic routes. The breakdown of leucine is accomplished solely through fat pathways. Valine is broken down solely through carbohydrate pathways, and isoleucine through both. The different metabolic pathways of these three amino acids lead to varying requirements for each.
BCAAs, unlike most other amino acids, are metabolized in within muscle tissue, allowing them to be oxidized (used as energy) by muscle cells to produce cellular energy in the form of ATP. ATP is the primary source of energy that fuels muscle contraction and allows you to lift weights.
The fact that leucine, isoleucine, and valine are metabolized within muscle tissue allows them to be a quick energy source when the body needs it. There is a significant increase in BCAA metabolism during prolonged exercise simply because the body requires more energy during periods of stress such as training. This makes BCAAs incredibly effective when taken around the time of your workout routine.
BCAAs have been proven in many studies to be a potent performance enhancer, and as previously mentioned, BCAAs make a great energy source for working muscles because of their unique metabolism. This can have a positive impact on performance. Not only can BCAAs be used as energy themselves but they also enhance fat oxidation in glycogen depleted subjects. This allows individuals to train harder for longer without fatigue due to the higher energy demands being met. This goes for both high intensity training as well as endurance training.
the amino acid leucine has also shown promise for increasing insulin sensitivity. Essentially, insulin sensitivity ensures that the insulin within your body maintains its effectiveness. This leads to easier fat loss, more muscle growth, and defense against diabetes.
While most amino acids are metabolized in the liver BCAAs are metabolized primarily by muscle. Despite their structural similarities the three branched chain amino acids have different metabolic routes. The breakdown of leucine is accomplished solely through fat pathways. Valine is broken down solely through carbohydrate pathways, and isoleucine through both. The different metabolic pathways of these three amino acids lead to varying requirements for each.
BCAAs, unlike most other amino acids, are metabolized in within muscle tissue, allowing them to be oxidized (used as energy) by muscle cells to produce cellular energy in the form of ATP. ATP is the primary source of energy that fuels muscle contraction and allows you to lift weights.
The fact that leucine, isoleucine, and valine are metabolized within muscle tissue allows them to be a quick energy source when the body needs it. There is a significant increase in BCAA metabolism during prolonged exercise simply because the body requires more energy during periods of stress such as training. This makes BCAAs incredibly effective when taken around the time of your workout routine.
BCAAs have been proven in many studies to be a potent performance enhancer, and as previously mentioned, BCAAs make a great energy source for working muscles because of their unique metabolism. This can have a positive impact on performance. Not only can BCAAs be used as energy themselves but they also enhance fat oxidation in glycogen depleted subjects. This allows individuals to train harder for longer without fatigue due to the higher energy demands being met. This goes for both high intensity training as well as endurance training.
the amino acid leucine has also shown promise for increasing insulin sensitivity. Essentially, insulin sensitivity ensures that the insulin within your body maintains its effectiveness. This leads to easier fat loss, more muscle growth, and defense against diabetes.
Monte_Cristo
Member
Could you please elaborate that part?
Ricky10
Well-known member
I hear ya, I don't have a cushy job either. Sometimes I can't eat for 14 hrs straight...sucks.
The Solution
Legend
Plenty of research that goes against BCAA usage in a caloric restriction as well:
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The high-quality protein in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids. there might be a detrimental impact given that the AAs appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely into the muscle
*whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA
It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research
For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, research & Studies show no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM)
As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein.
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The high-quality protein in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids. there might be a detrimental impact given that the AAs appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely into the muscle
*whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA
It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research
For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, research & Studies show no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM)
As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein.
jackburton
New member
Lots of different thoughts and ideas on the bcaas, when to take, which is better, etc.
I'm someone that hates drinking water like I'm supposed to. So I mix it with water and drink throughout the day some days.
And some days I mix a bit with the preworkout cause I occasionally and accidentally get some pre that tastes like bad cold medicine.
And I'm totally lame about it. I get a certain brand that tastes like candy. May be placebo only but I can tell a subtle difference when I drink it or don't.
But whatev, everyone get what they like, drink it or not...if it works for you it's cool
I'm someone that hates drinking water like I'm supposed to. So I mix it with water and drink throughout the day some days.
And some days I mix a bit with the preworkout cause I occasionally and accidentally get some pre that tastes like bad cold medicine.
And I'm totally lame about it. I get a certain brand that tastes like candy. May be placebo only but I can tell a subtle difference when I drink it or don't.
But whatev, everyone get what they like, drink it or not...if it works for you it's cool
gains2bmade
New member
I take bcaas 3 times a day. First thing in the morning then at noon with meal then at night with last meal of the day. I do this when I'm trying to bring up a body part or put on overall thickness.