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Hairygrandpas log, fat- and older people welcome!- diet, training, cycles, healing

HIT4ME said:
thebigt said:
Well, statistics can be interpreted a number of ways - but this is more about allowing "common knowledge" to create limiting beliefs that hold us back and aren't NECESSARILY true. The FACTS are that, when you look at the studies on weight lifting injuries, far more people under the age of 30 get injured. I can think of 3-4 good reasons for this - the most obvious being that probably more young people lift weights, the other being that crushing a finger with a plate is an injury related to weight lifting that probably happens a lot more to unfocused teenagers, another is the fact that younger people are more active to being with (which is why adolescents get more back injuries - playing basketball and lifting weights has a higher injury risk to your lower back than lifting weights).

The point though, is that there is no LOGICAL mechanism for which older people become injured more easily than younger people. Maybe you could make a case that older muscle tissue isnt' as strong as younger tissue ....but this only creates more of a case for lifting heavy to keep that tissue stronger and combat this effect.

The other thing is, a lot of older people have been inactive for YEARS or even DECADES and then start working out and get injured and never go back to the gym. This creates a perception that it was their age. But it ignores the decade of inactivity they were trying to overcome in the first place.

I just want to provide another angle because we all have limiting beliefs. And being "right" or "wrong" isn't what makes a belief useful - moving you toward or away from your goal is what makes a belief useful. And, being older, wiser, and conservative has its merits - but pushing limits within reason is the best way to learn what you are capable of. I'm not suggesting someone who normally deadlifts 250 just go and try to deadlift 400 tonight just because they want to see if they can do it. But maybe going for 260 or even 270 isn't so unheard of, and then you build up from there. Just always be pushing/improving. And Kaprice usually has a different angle, which is what makes these conversations interesting - but he is pushing too...he's just a lot wiser and more conservative than I am.



Well, again, it's more about form/control than the weight involved.



Another reason why stats can lie - older people are smarter (and use better form??)

mmorso said:
I think that's awesome. Weight lifting can be such a great analogy for all of life. Sometimes just having something that you can see improvement in will effect everything else in your life. Good on you for helping others.
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are you a politician....all those words and I still don't know where you stand, lol.
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thebigt said:
are you a politician....all those words and I still don't know where you stand, lol.
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I stand in the side that says, go hard or go home and stop saying I am going to get injured because I am old, or I can't do x because of my age.

I stand on this side because I am 37 and ignorant of what being 60 will actually be like, but also because I am hopeful that there are better versions of life than most people settle for.
 
mmorso said:
One of the greatest lessons that lifting teaches is that immediate gratification is bullsh1t... idk of anything else that requires so much patience to see results and an ability to be disciplined through discouragement, disappointment, injury etc...
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You are doing it wrong, I always got instant results. Curling a bit, then flexing in front of a mirror, bam! Results!
:)
 
Brandinooooo said:
How on earth can someone get the biceps to help with shrugs?
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It doesn't actually help, it is more an instinctual recruitment where your body understands that the "goal" (as it sees it) is to lift up the DBs, and it will do a slight curl to try to "help" get that last bit of trap contraction. But the (typical heavy shrug) weight is more than the bicep can handle and it tears. There was a study that the most common cause of bicep tears was shrugs. (not the only, only the most common). There are ways to mitigate that, with machines, or variations in form. I forget the exact medical reference but I am sure it could be dug up via Google.
 
I wish I didn't allow myself to get sucked into these arguments, but I just can't help myself.

For me personally, statistics and reasons and causes don't matter. All I know is that I get hurt easier doing less now than I did when I was younger.

You say that limiting beliefs hinder progress. I agree with that, but I disagree with your conclusion. You seem to be saying that we shouldn't think about getting hurt when we're older because it will hold us back. My personal experience has been snapped away I did when I was younger has limited my progress because I pull something and then I'm out for a few months. For me, it is much more empowering to recognize the risk and not push as hard.

HIT4ME said:
thebigt said:
Well, statistics can be interpreted a number of ways - but this is more about allowing "common knowledge" to create limiting beliefs that hold us back and aren't NECESSARILY true. The FACTS are that, when you look at the studies on weight lifting injuries, far more people under the age of 30 get injured. I can think of 3-4 good reasons for this - the most obvious being that probably more young people lift weights, the other being that crushing a finger with a plate is an injury related to weight lifting that probably happens a lot more to unfocused teenagers, another is the fact that younger people are more active to being with (which is why adolescents get more back injuries - playing basketball and lifting weights has a higher injury risk to your lower back than lifting weights).

The point though, is that there is no LOGICAL mechanism for which older people become injured more easily than younger people. Maybe you could make a case that older muscle tissue isnt' as strong as younger tissue ....but this only creates more of a case for lifting heavy to keep that tissue stronger and combat this effect.

The other thing is, a lot of older people have been inactive for YEARS or even DECADES and then start working out and get injured and never go back to the gym. This creates a perception that it was their age. But it ignores the decade of inactivity they were trying to overcome in the first place.

I just want to provide another angle because we all have limiting beliefs. And being "right" or "wrong" isn't what makes a belief useful - moving you toward or away from your goal is what makes a belief useful. And, being older, wiser, and conservative has its merits - but pushing limits within reason is the best way to learn what you are capable of. I'm not suggesting someone who normally deadlifts 250 just go and try to deadlift 400 tonight just because they want to see if they can do it. But maybe going for 260 or even 270 isn't so unheard of, and then you build up from there. Just always be pushing/improving. And Kaprice usually has a different angle, which is what makes these conversations interesting - but he is pushing too...he's just a lot wiser and more conservative than I am.



Well, again, it's more about form/control than the weight involved.



Another reason why stats can lie - older people are smarter (and use better form??)

mmorso said:
I think that's awesome. Weight lifting can be such a great analogy for all of life. Sometimes just having something that you can see improvement in will effect everything else in your life. Good on you for helping others.
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one thing is "older" muscles are not as resilient at younger tissue. I know for a fact that I do not recover from an injury, any injury (in or out of the gym) anywhere near as fast as I did when I was younger. Period.

So maybe younger lifters do get "smaller" injuries that they are able to shrug off and don't even notice where as we age they become more prominent and obvious and longer lasting?
 
HIT4ME said:
I stand on this side because I am 37 and ignorant of what being 60 will actually be like, but also because I am hopeful that there are better versions of life than most people settle for.
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I was looking back to see what your age is, as that is a pretty big factor in this discussion. And not to be negative (honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk), but I think we need to wait on this topic until you add another 8 ~ 10 years and revisit it then. A lot starts happening (or stops happening) after the mid-way point through 40. I may have felt as you do when I was younger, but my perspective has definitely changed, and as I am sure many others, I care less about stats than I do about my own personal experiences (both in and out of the gym). Just my $.02 :)
 
Kaprice said:
I wish I didn't allow myself to get sucked into these arguments, but I just can't help myself.

For me personally, statistics and reasons and causes don't matter. All I know is that I get hurt easier doing less now than I did when I was younger.

You say that limiting beliefs hinder progress. I agree with that, but I disagree with your conclusion. You seem to be saying that we shouldn't think about getting hurt when we're older because it will hold us back. My personal experience has been snapped away I did when I was younger has limited my progress because I pull something and then I'm out for a few months. For me, it is much more empowering to recognize the risk and not push as hard.

HIT4ME said:
thebigt said:
Well, statistics can be interpreted a number of ways - but this is more about allowing "common knowledge" to create limiting beliefs that hold us back and aren't NECESSARILY true. The FACTS are that, when you look at the studies on weight lifting injuries, far more people under the age of 30 get injured. I can think of 3-4 good reasons for this - the most obvious being that probably more young people lift weights, the other being that crushing a finger with a plate is an injury related to weight lifting that probably happens a lot more to unfocused teenagers, another is the fact that younger people are more active to being with (which is why adolescents get more back injuries - playing basketball and lifting weights has a higher injury risk to your lower back than lifting weights).

The point though, is that there is no LOGICAL mechanism for which older people become injured more easily than younger people. Maybe you could make a case that older muscle tissue isnt' as strong as younger tissue ....but this only creates more of a case for lifting heavy to keep that tissue stronger and combat this effect.

The other thing is, a lot of older people have been inactive for YEARS or even DECADES and then start working out and get injured and never go back to the gym. This creates a perception that it was their age. But it ignores the decade of inactivity they were trying to overcome in the first place.

I just want to provide another angle because we all have limiting beliefs. And being "right" or "wrong" isn't what makes a belief useful - moving you toward or away from your goal is what makes a belief useful. And, being older, wiser, and conservative has its merits - but pushing limits within reason is the best way to learn what you are capable of. I'm not suggesting someone who normally deadlifts 250 just go and try to deadlift 400 tonight just because they want to see if they can do it. But maybe going for 260 or even 270 isn't so unheard of, and then you build up from there. Just always be pushing/improving. And Kaprice usually has a different angle, which is what makes these conversations interesting - but he is pushing too...he's just a lot wiser and more conservative than I am.



Well, again, it's more about form/control than the weight involved.



Another reason why stats can lie - older people are smarter (and use better form??)
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Just to be clear - they aren't arguments. They are discussions/debates and I LIKE the fact that you think differently than I do. It isn't like you have no basis for your thoughts and can't defend them - it makes for an interesting discussion. The fact that we disagree on details is trivial. I think at the end of the day we agree on far more than we disagree on. We are just at different points, with you being so old an all. :)

Sparkss said:
one thing is "older" muscles are not as resilient at younger tissue. I know for a fact that I do not recover from an injury, any injury (in or out of the gym) anywhere near as fast as I did when I was younger. Period.

So maybe younger lifters do get "smaller" injuries that they are able to shrug off and don't even notice where as we age they become more prominent and obvious and longer lasting?
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I can buy the recovery part of it - injuries can certainly be more devastating as you are older. The logical extreme of this is, if I fall today I will get up and go about my day. If my grandmother falls today (at 90) she will be in the ER and could even conceivably die from it. Recovery and impact are definitely greater as you are older. All the more reason, though, to push to be in the best shape you can be in.

Sparkss said:
I was looking back to see what your age is, as that is a pretty big factor in this discussion. And not to be negative (honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk), but I think we need to wait on this topic until you add another 8 ~ 10 years and revisit it then. A lot starts happening (or stops happening) after the mid-way point through 40. I may have felt as you do when I was younger, but my perspective has definitely changed, and as I am sure many others, I care less about stats than I do about my own personal experiences (both in and out of the gym). Just my $.02 :)
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lol, you jerk. I said it first though :)

I may have a different perspective in 10 years...but it may be more emotional and less "right" at that point. Who knows?
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One thing that occurred to me (as I am working out here) is that as we age we "collect" additional injuries, through life. We also know that once a muscle is injured it is more susceptible to being re-injured. So as we age there are more possible re-injury opportunities than when we were younger.
 
Sparkss said:
One thing that occurred to me (as I am working out here) is that as we age we "collect" additional injuries, through life. We also know that once a muscle is injured it is more susceptible to being re-injured. So as we age there are more possible re-injury opportunities than when we were younger.
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That's very true observation too. Can't really argue with that. It isn't a function of age as much of the experience though.

I have been fortunate in the fact that at 37 years of age I've never had any serious injuries. I've had back issues in the past but they were minor and weightlifting actually cured those issues.

I think maybe the fact that as a teenager I worked out in my parents basement and had all the equipment I needed available to me probably actually helped to keep me injury free. Since I wasn't in the gym I wasn't being given bad advice or watching other people do things and stupid fashions. I took my time and learned on my own and read everything I could. And they have no one else too impressed with what I was doing. By the time I ever set foot in an actual gym I pretty much knew what I was trying to do and could see when other people had no clue. That's a luxury a lot of teenagers don't have.

This all gets back to the original reasons why we should be lifting weights though. People who don't lift weights I guarantee becoming much more susceptible to injuries as they age. I've seen it in my own family and that is a big reason why I started working out again.
 
HIT4ME said:
That's very true observation too. Can't really argue with that. It isn't a function of age as much of the experience though.

I have been fortunate in the fact that at 37 years of age I've never had any serious injuries. I've had back issues in the past but they were minor and weightlifting actually cured those issues.

I think maybe the fact that as a teenager I worked out in my parents basement and had all the equipment I needed available to me probably actually helped to keep me injury free. Since I wasn't in the gym I wasn't being given bad advice or watching other people do things and stupid fashions. I took my time and learned on my own and read everything I could. And they have no one else too impressed with what I was doing. By the time I ever set foot in an actual gym I pretty much knew what I was trying to do and could see when other people had no clue. That's a luxury a lot of teenagers don't have.

This all gets back to the original reasons why we should be lifting weights though. People who don't lift weights I guarantee becoming much more susceptible to injuries as they age. I've seen it in my own family and that is a big reason why I started working out again.
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I will add that none of the injuries I deal with happened while I was in the gym. They do impact my time now in the gym though.
 
Sparkss said:
one thing is "older" muscles are not as resilient at younger tissue. I know for a fact that I do not recover from an injury, any injury (in or out of the gym) anywhere near as fast as I did when I was younger. Period.

So maybe younger lifters do get "smaller" injuries that they are able to shrug off and don't even notice where as we age they become more prominent and obvious and longer lasting?
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I somewhere read recovery for 45yo+ is up to 72hrs. I can attest to that. Even on AAS my recovery time is at least 48hrs, that is the reason I go now 3 times/week to the gym -instead of 5 times.
 
Everything in my life started sucking a$$ after the age of 35...and it's only going to get exponentially worse with each passing year. Yea!!!
 
Famine said:
Everything in my life started sucking a$$ after the age of 35...and it's only going to get exponentially worse with each passing year. Yea!!!
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Ahh come on man... some sh1ts great... I might be alone on this but I think having a lowered libido is one of the luxuries of getting older... having a hard on all the time is a burden lol
 
Sparkss said:
I was looking back to see what your age is, as that is a pretty big factor in this discussion. And not to be negative (honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk), but I think we need to wait on this topic until you add another 8 ~ 10 years and revisit it then. A lot starts happening (or stops happening) after the mid-way point through 40. I may have felt as you do when I was younger, but my perspective has definitely changed, and as I am sure many others, I care less about stats than I do about my own personal experiences (both in and out of the gym). Just my $.02 :)
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my friend, if statistics tell me one thing and my body tells me the opposite, am I to ignore what my body is telling me?
 
Famine said:
Everything in my life started sucking a$$ after the age of 35...and it's only going to get exponentially worse with each passing year. Yea!!!
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Stop whining. That's nothing.
When I was 8yo my hamster "Piesepampel" (engl. pronounced: Pee-sa-pumpel) died, I was never the same after that.
 
I'm 36 and it's sucked for years here already. Genetics and prior abuse to my morbidly obese body, along with a car accident are probably more to blame than time. But I just say this to point out some of it is time, but I believe even more is circumstances and genetics.
 
Gym sado-maso event:
rp = rest pause set 10sec.

To get in the mood:

Chin ups BW negatives, holding on top as long as possible
42sec
Pull ups BW
12/9
------------------------------------------------------------
Cable flies 2x50lbs TUT 3.1.1
13/13/11/12/10/10 rp 7 rp 5

DB Pull over
90lbs x11
100lbs x6 /6

DB bent over rear delt 2x65lbs
pinky out x 12
parallel x10
pinky out x9 rp 5
parallel x8 rp 5

DB lateral rises thumbs up, moving under tension, never to zero 2x15lbs
20 sec /15 sec/15 sec/15 sec rp 10sec

DB inclined reverse flies
2x25lbs x11/10/10/9 rp 6

BB bent over row
220lbs x13 rp 8 rp 5
265lbs x6

Chest flies machine (don't remember weight, moderate) TUT 4.1.1
10 minutes

Leg curls machine - max weight
25 rp 17 rp 12

leg extensions moderate weights (don't remember)
20 rp 14 rp 10 rp 8

-some rotator cuff strengthening exercises

on my way out chin ups negative holding on top
35 sec
 
Famine said:
Everything in my life started sucking a$$ after the age of 35...and it's only going to get exponentially worse with each passing year. Yea!!!
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So change it. At 53, I'm in the best shape of my life. That was a choice I made, when I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. In the words of the wise Dr. Seuss; “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”

Or, you know, you could just keep bytching about being old. Your choice.
 
The only thing I would change is how I feel. For looking in shape, my body feels broken down a lot. That has been my biggest adjustment to getting older. Trying to discern between pain and potential serious injury
 
hairygrandpa I apologize for jacking your thread but I thought this was pertinent to the tooic being discussed at the time. Famine this is 2 pictures of me. Just for "evidence "
The first was me around 24-25Invalid Link Removed
This is me this morning at 39. Ive broken several bones, and grew up rather rough, and did NOT take care of myself or my injuries. Im plagued with them now including a torn rotator cuff, absolutely destroyed right ankle and a broken finger, to start. Its all in what you want my man!Invalid Link Removed
 
SFreed said:
So change it. At 53, I'm in the best shape of my life. That was a choice I made, when I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. In the words of the wise Dr. Seuss; “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”

Or, you know, you could just keep bytching about being old. Your choice.
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And an inspiration you are!
 
SFreed said:
So change it. At 53, I'm in the best shape of my life. That was a choice I made, when I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. In the words of the wise Dr. Seuss; “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”

Or, you know, you could just keep bytching about being old. Your choice.
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Well said!!! Just got another freedom boner
 
SFreed said:
So change it. At 53, I'm in the best shape of my life. That was a choice I made, when I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. In the words of the wise Dr. Seuss; “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...

Or, you know, you could just keep bytching about being old. Your choice.
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You go brother! The older I get the wiser I get for sure.
 
SFreed said:
So change it. At 53, I'm in the best shape of my life. That was a choice I made, when I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. In the words of the wise Dr. Seuss; “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”

Or, you know, you could just keep bytching about being old. Your choice.
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I am absolutely in the best shape I have ever been. I do however have more injuries than when I was younger, but I am stronger and my physique is visibly improved. Even my wife comments how much better I look then even when we got married almost 15 years ago.
 
SFreed said:
So change it. At 53, I'm in the best shape of my life. That was a choice I made, when I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. In the words of the wise Dr. Seuss; “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”

Or, you know, you could just keep bytching about being old. Your choice.
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Amenx1000! I'm 56 and in the best shape of my life!
 
SFreed said:
So change it. At 53, I'm in the best shape of my life. That was a choice I made, when I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. In the words of the wise Dr. Seuss; “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”

Or, you know, you could just keep bytching about being old. Your choice.
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Sparkss said:
I am absolutely in the best shape I have ever been. I do however have more injuries than when I was younger, but I am stronger and my physique is visibly improved. Even my wife comments how much better I look then even when we got married almost 15 years ago.
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kenpoengineer said:
Amenx1000! I'm 56 and in the best shape of my life!
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I looked the best when in the military 28 years ago -and the worst 2 years ago.
If I had to guess I would say, in 6 month from now I'm in the best shape of my life, not as athletic but looking better :)
The AM community is a great help, as we all are "pulling at the same rope", trying to get better by the day.
....and thank god for SARMS, PH's and AAS.
 
hairygrandpa said:
I looked the best when in the military 28 years ago -and the worst 2 years ago.
If I had to guess I would say, in 6 month from now I'm in the best shape of my life, not as athletic but looking better :)
The AM community is a great help, as we all are "pulling at the same rope", trying to get better by the day.
....and thank god for SARMS, PH's and AAS.
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Well said sir!

By the way, you should probably add "no homo" after "pulling at the same rope" or the freaks might come out...
 
You guys ARE an inspiration.....I'm hitting 55 and I'm in the best shape I've been in 30 years....and I ain't stoppin now!
 
Tank999 said:
You guys ARE an inspiration.....I'm hitting 55 and I'm in the best shape I've been in 30 years....and I ain't stoppin now!
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I had preconceived ideas about weight lifting and age before I joined AM... I'm 35 and have been training for a year and a half and regretted not getting into lifting at an earlier age.. I use to think that I'd never get the gains I would have if I started in my 20s cause I'm on a decline, hormonally.

After seeing a lot of you fckers killin it in your 50s and 60s, I now think that this age thing isn't really that big of a factor. Having heart and not being a pssy is more important.
 
mmorso said:
I had preconceived ideas about weight lifting and age before I joined AM... I'm 35 and have been training for a year and a half and regretted not getting into lifting at an earlier age.. I use to think that I'd never get the gains I would have if I started in my 20s cause I'm on a decline, hormonally.

After seeing a lot of you fckers killin it in your 50s and 60s, I now think that this age thing isn't really that big of a factor. Having heart and not being a pssy is more important.
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....AND juice, don't forget the juice.
 
Did you old fckers mind it when you first started to get grey hair? At first, my balls started greying and it didn't bother me that much cause it made them look more distinguished, like they should be wearing tweed and giving lectures or something...
 
mmorso said:
Did you old fckers mind it when you first started to get grey hair? At first, my balls started greying and it didn't bother me that much cause it made them look more distinguished, like they should be wearing tweed and giving lectures or something...
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I started going gray at about 25. Pretty much all gray now, but still got a full head of hair. FireTitan can get away with being bald cause his head is relatively normal shaped. Mine's lumpier than an old softball.

Pubes never turned gray, but thinking about dying them now, thanks to your comment. Getting a tweed jacket for my d1ck is now a priority.
 
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