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ARA harmful due to systemic inflammation?

drejb

drejb

Active member
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This article states the dangers of ARA including heart disease and cancer due to systemic inflammation. What are your thoughts? Any science geeks on here than can either confirm or deny what is stated here?
 
Anytime you promote inflammation you're asking for all sorts of trouble. I'm actually thinking it caused my liver values to be out of wack at one point. I dropped it and reran bloodwork and my ast/alt levels were back to normal. Probably something else but that was the only natty product I was taking at that time.
 
goodvibes said:
Anytime you promote inflammation you're asking for all sorts of trouble. I'm actually thinking it caused my liver values to be out of wack at one point. I dropped it and reran bloodwork and my ast/alt levels were back to normal. Probably something else but that was the only natty product I was taking at that time.
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Messed up my fingernails and I swear, caused my hair to start shedding. Like you - only "Natty Anabolic" thing I was taking at the time.
 
drejb said:
I can't tell if this is real or not lol

Am I getting trolled
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Real. Look up possible adverse reactions to high dose Omega-6. Scalloped/Cupped fingernails and brittle hair are listed. Could have been coincidence, but I stopped buying it.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Real. Look up possible adverse reactions to high dose Omega-6. Scalloped/Cupped fingernails and brittle hair are listed. Could have been coincidence, but I stopped buying it.
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Dammit just spend $115 Canadian on the stuff 5 days ago waiting for my shipment
 
drejb said:
Dammit just spend $115 Canadian on the stuff 5 days ago waiting for my shipment
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Dude, I'm like literally the only person on here who thinks it messed them up (well, me and Goodvibes :D) - the odds are drastically in your favor.
 
drejb said:
Haha we will see. Hoping to hear the others chime in
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I ran ARA twice and had no adverse reactions from either product or either run...Other than it depleting my bank balance.
I ran Molecular Nutritions X-Factor Advanced for 8 weeks and SNS X-Gels for 8 weeks, had pretty noticeable natty gains from both runs. The DOMS are great and really satisfying too.
 
I really like x gels. Although that article scares me now:(
 
I was getting short of breath and lightheaded at the beginning of an xgels run.. It could have been the 2 mgs of l-carnatine I was taking with it, cause when I started taking baby aspirin as an emulsifier, the issues went away.

I thought ArA promoted local and not systemic inflammation... I could be wrong on this but I thought that it inflamed tissue that had been damaged during exercise... I also know if you have an existing injury/condition it will cause inflammation...

In my case I got worried that I have underlying heart conditions. I stopped doing cardio during the run; I also stopped working shoulders because it was causing my bursitis to flare up.

I ran 25 days and stopped.
 
mmorso said:
I was getting short of breath and lightheaded at the beginning of an xgels run.. It could have been the 2 mgs of l-carnatine I was taking with it, cause when I started taking baby aspirin as an emulsifier, the issues went away.

I though ArA promoted local and not systemic inflammation... I could be wrong on this but I thought that it inflamed tissue that had been damaged during exercise... I also know if you have an existing injury/condition it will cause inflammation...

In my case I got worried that I have underlying heart conditions. I stopped doing cardio during the run; I also stopped working shoulders because it was causing my bursitis to flare up.

I ran 25 days and stopped.
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Do you have a heart condition? Or did you just worry you had one due to your symptoms. Have you have BP and blood levels checked for angina or anything to confirm this was not a side of what you were taking?
 
Cjg said:
Stay away from it!!! A guy took it with great results.. but months in he developed colitis.. he said the dr. Told him something caused inflammation in your intestines.....
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Lol I wish I knew all this sht before buying it. Everyone on here raves about it. Now I'm stuck $120 in the hole!
 
I am almost 3 weeks in on ARA and I'm actually thinking of not opening my second bottle of X-Gels and putting it on the back burner. I know the reviews for this product are amazing on these boards but I'm not feeling any positive effects from this so far. And I just cannot recommend this product for anyone who does volume training. I feel like my workouts are getting cut so much shorter due to joint pain and reaching muscle failure quicker (anyone else?). I can see how this product might complement a high intensity full body routine, but not a high volume split.
 
drejb said:
Do you have a heart condition? Or did you just worry you had one due to your symptoms. Have you have BP and blood levels checked for angina or anything to confirm this was not a side of what you were taking?
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I was worried that I had one due to the symptoms. I had my annual labs done shortly after the xgels run and everything was g2g. I just got paranoid.
 
mmorso said:
I was worried that I had one due to the symptoms. I had my annual labs done shortly after the xgels run and everything was g2g. I just got paranoid.
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Story of my life. If I have a symptom of a cold I think death is upon me haha.
 
lol I'm the same cause I used to smoke, drink, and do drugs heavily so I feel like any day that's gonna catch up to me.. it drives my wife crazy.
 
drejb said:
Lol I wish I knew all this sht before buying it. Everyone on here raves about it. Now I'm stuck $120 in the hole!
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Sorry man. One thing I notice about these boards is that you're going to find way more good reviews than bad on almost anything. I think a reason for that is because someone who says something bad about a beloved product or company here faces a lot of backlash from other users. I'm new to the forums and already experienced it.
 
210LBS said:
Sorry man. One thing I notice about these boards is that you're going to find way more good reviews than bad on almost anything. I think a reason for that is because someone who says something bad about a beloved product or company here faces a lot of backlash from other users. I'm new to the forums and already experienced it.
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My mistake for not doing more research.
 
I think the side of the x gels bottle says something about inflammatory bowels... so they do warn you...
 
Cjg said:
I think the side of the x gels bottle says something about inflammatory bowels... so they do warn you...
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Not my bottles. It does say don't take if you have colitis, etc etc. or any inflammatory disease.
 
210LBS said:
Sorry man. One thing I notice about these boards is that you're going to find way more good reviews than bad on almost anything. I think a reason for that is because someone who says something bad about a beloved product or company here faces a lot of backlash from other users. I'm new to the forums and already experienced it.
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What exactly did you face backlash for?
 
ma70 said:
What exactly did you face backlash for?
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I'd rather put it behind me but my skepticism of BLR Follidrone. I never tried the product but I questioned the company's claims. People saw my distaste for their marketing as an attack on the company, which I know is highly regarded here. But back to ARA...
 
210LBS said:
I'd rather put it behind me but my skepticism of BLR Follidrone. I never tried the product but I questioned the company's claims. People saw my distaste for their marketing as an attack on the company, which I know is highly regarded here. But back to ARA...
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Yeah, it happens. It's just the nature of the forums. The majority of people here are supplement dependant and usually don't have their diet/training down so when they start using supplements, they naturally fix up their diet/training to make the best use of it, and then they say "I gained 10 lbs using X product". Basically, ignore all sponsored logs, most of the unsponsored logs that involve stacks or people who program hop, and try to read the studies and see if they convince you enough to take the plunge.

ArA gave me no negative side effects, and a lot of the data I've read leads me to believe it is safe. 1.5g Arachidonic Acid is a small part of your diet (1.5g of fat), but eh, maybe I'll take a second look at the health issues some day, but I haven't gotten around to re-using it other than my 50 day 1.5g run.
 
ma70 said:
Yeah, it happens. It's just the nature of the forums. The majority of people here are supplement dependant and usually don't have their diet/training down so when they start using supplements, they naturally fix up their diet/training to make the best use of it, and then they say "I gained 10 lbs using X product". Basically, ignore all sponsored logs, most of the unsponsored logs that involve stacks or people who program hop, and try to read the studies and see if they convince you enough to take the plunge.

ArA gave me no negative side effects, and a lot of the data I've read leads me to believe it is safe. 1.5g Arachidonic Acid is a small part of your diet (1.5g of fat), but eh, maybe I'll take a second look at the health issues some day, but I haven't gotten around to re-using it other than my 50 day 1.5g run.
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I may have missed this fact in the article, but I'm assuming these issues come about with prolonged durations of high ARA in the system. More of a lifestyle change in an ARA dominant diet. Which is most likely why it is not recommended to take more than 2g a day for 50 workout days.
 
drejb said:
I may have missed this fact in the article, but I'm assuming these issues come about with prolonged durations of high ARA in the system. More of a lifestyle change in an ARA dominant diet. Which is most likely why it is not recommended to take more than 2g a day for 50 workout days.
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The recommended cycle was 50 days on, 50 days off. Then it became 50 workout days on, 50 days off. Either way, you're not supposed to use it for a long period of time.
 
ma70 said:
Yeah, it happens. It's just the nature of the forums. The majority of people here are supplement dependant and usually don't have their diet/training down so when they start using supplements, they naturally fix up their diet/training to make the best use of it, and then they say "I gained 10 lbs using X product". Basically, ignore all sponsored logs, most of the unsponsored logs that involve stacks or people who program hop, and try to read the studies and see if they convince you enough to take the plunge.

ArA gave me no negative side effects, and a lot of the data I've read leads me to believe it is safe. 1.5g Arachidonic Acid is a small part of your diet (1.5g of fat), but eh, maybe I'll take a second look at the health issues some day, but I haven't gotten around to re-using it other than my 50 day 1.5g run.
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I'm not saying ArA doesn't work, but I have been experiencing more joint pain, which has been cutting my workouts shorter. If I was doing a high intensity routine I doubt that it would effect my workouts and probably yield better results. However, I'm currently doing a high volume training routine which requires my joints to be at tip top shape to make it through. So maybe routine, joint health, and activity make a difference depending on who would benefit more from this. For example, I certainly wouldn't recommend it to someone who is a baseball pitcher.
 
210LBS said:
I'm not saying ArA doesn't work, but I have been experiencing more joint pain, which has been cutting my workouts shorter. If I was doing a high intensity routine I doubt that it would effect my workouts and probably yield better results. However, I'm currently doing a high volume training routine which requires my joints to be at tip top shape to make it through. So maybe routine, joint health, and activity make a difference depending on who would benefit more from this. For example, I certainly wouldn't recommend it to someone who is a baseball pitcher.
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If you have joint issues then ArA is a no go, 100%.
 
This thread is interesting. In the early 2000's when ArA was just becoming a "thing", this inflammation was really over played. It kept a lot of people from touching ArA at all. I got away from the game for a decade and by the time I came back, no one talked about the scary side of ArA anymore and everyone accepted it.

I think there are some considerations here. One is, if you have an underlying health issue that you are unaware of (heart condition, IBS, Crohns, organ issues) - any inflammation may trigger it and cause an issue. But this is true of lots of stuff. Second, long-term inflammation is not good - so cycling is important and most products recommend this. Beyond underlying health issues, I don't think the majority of the inflammation issues are long-term, so going off the product if you have issues will probably be all you need to do. It's good to be aware of the possible issues though, so that if they come up you know to try discontinuing use. Finally, if you are already eating a diet heavy in Omega 6 and low in Omega 3's, this will only make it worse.

Keep in mind, eating pork products will cause a lot of the same inflammation so it's not like this is unnatural.
 
Yes the Arachidonic Acid thread was posted by me, so i'll clarify a few points and fallacies ITT.

First, that source is absolutely horrible. I had a nosey around on the site and found this

1. Beef. Range fed beef cooked with low heat is very healthy in many ways. But even under those ideal conditions, it will probably have significant saturated fat, which will cause most urban dwellering males trouble in terms of heart disease and erectile dysfunction. I cover all of this in greater detail in my Beef and Eggs link and this link on the Great Diet Smackdown.

2. Chicken, Turkey and Egg Yolks. According to David Chilton, author of Inflammation Nation, these foods are loaded with inflammatory messengers. Flooding the body with these often overloads our systems, helping to lead to the recurrent inflammatory state that is so common in western societies and has been shown recently to be one of the root causes of our current epidemic of autoimmune and heart diseases.

3. Fish. Most fish, be it farm or fresh, is loaded with Mercury, heavy metals and PCB's. It simply is not safe to eat more than once (or at most twice) per week.

4. Milk / Casein. Watch out for milk protein. Dairy has been implicated as being a strong risk factor for Prostate Cancer. And a recent animal study shows that casein, a.k.a. milk protein, actually lowered the Nitric Oxide levels of lab animals. I know of no studies that directly correlate dairy with erectile dysfunction, but you do not want to rely on anything that lowers your precious Nitric Oxide levels. [7]
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So basically, no meat (fish, beef, chicken, turkey and more are explicitly stated), no milk, no eggs, nothing.

Then I read this:

So how much protein do we really want? Well, first of all, several studies have shown that higher protein levels, actually higher protein/carbohydrate dietary ratios, are associated with a decrease in testosterone.
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And now I want to cry. This guy has ZERO clinical nutritional knowledge and is likely just reading the abstract without considering other factors. I do like the fact he tries to use science to his favour; it's just slightly sad that he's not very good at it.

Anywho, back to AA.

Many of the studies he used cited diets VERY high in AA content (up to 25% of total fat content), whereas we use a mere 250mg per capsule. Moreover, when taken as outlined in the Arachidonic Acid thread, you reduce the amount of Ara that creates harmful eicosanoids AND you are more likely to shuttle it to skeletal muscle as opposed to elsewhere.

Now, for the studies to back my position:

Healthy men supplemented 200mg/d of AA for 16 days, then 1.5g/d from days 16-65 (50 days inclusive) which promoted PGE2 and LTb4 synthesis but did not alter TNF-a, many of the interleukins or other really harmful pro-inflammatory cytokines.

And this is without following our recommendations for including Carnitine AND an emulsifier.

Invalid Link Removed

An increase in PGE2 also decreases other cytokine production, and thus further contributes to the "muscle building" effects.
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It is very important you take what he says with a bit of context - he is referring to people (even if unknowingly) who have a severe imbalance between n6 and n3 intake that stems from the diet, not a 1g supplemental intake of AA.

In any case, we do not recommend AA for those with pre-existing inflammatory conditions, including things like Asthma.
 
Jiigzz said:
Yes the Arachidonic Acid thread was posted by me, so i'll clarify a few points and fallacies ITT.

First, that source is absolutely horrible. I had a nosey around on the site and found this



So basically, no meat (fish, beef, chicken, turkey and more are explicitly stated), no milk, no eggs, nothing.

Then I read this:



And now I want to cry. This guy has ZERO clinical nutritional knowledge and is likely just reading the abstract without considering other factors. I do like the fact he tries to use science to his favour; it's just slightly sad that he's not very good at it.

Anywho, back to AA.

Many of the studies he used cited diets VERY high in AA content (up to 25% of total fat content), whereas we use a mere 250mg per capsule. Moreover, when taken as outlined in the Arachidonic Acid thread, you reduce the amount of Ara that creates harmful eicosanoids AND you are more likely to shuttle it to skeletal muscle as opposed to elsewhere.

Now, for the studies to back my position:

Healthy men supplemented 200mg/d of AA for 16 days, then 1.5g/d from days 16-65 (50 days inclusive) which promoted PGE2 and LTb4 synthesis but did not alter TNF-a, many of the interleukins or other really harmful pro-inflammatory cytokines.

And this is without following our recommendations for including Carnitine AND an emulsifier.

Invalid Link Removed

An increase in PGE2 also decreases other cytokine production, and thus further contributes to the "muscle building" effects.
Invalid Link Removed

It is very important you take what he says with a bit of context - he is referring to people (even if unknowingly) who have a severe imbalance between n6 and n3 intake that stems from the diet, not a 1g supplemental intake of AA.

In any case, we do not recommend AA for those with pre-existing inflammatory conditions, including things like Asthma.
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Unfortunately, because you are a rep, some people may feel your argument is biased or something (read earlier in this thread). Perhaps if other non-SNS minds stepped in, maybe it would be more convincing for some of these guys.
 
ma70 said:
Unfortunately, because you are a rep, some people may feel your argument is biased or something (read earlier in this thread). Perhaps if other non-SNS minds stepped in, maybe it would be more convincing for some of these guys.
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I don't blame them, however it still needed to be pointed out. Arachidonic Acid is the pre-cursor to pro-inflammatory cytokines, period. That means that someone doing a simple Google search can readily bring up a lot of 'harmful' tidbits about AA, without considering the context in which AA levels can be elevated.

But I still don't rate that guys information very highly for other things
 
Jiigzz said:
Yes the Arachidonic Acid thread was posted by me, so i'll clarify a few points and fallacies ITT.

First, that source is absolutely horrible. I had a nosey around on the site and found this



So basically, no meat (fish, beef, chicken, turkey and more are explicitly stated), no milk, no eggs, nothing.

Then I read this:



And now I want to cry. This guy has ZERO clinical nutritional knowledge and is likely just reading the abstract without considering other factors. I do like the fact he tries to use science to his favour; it's just slightly sad that he's not very good at it.

Anywho, back to AA.

Many of the studies he used cited diets VERY high in AA content (up to 25% of total fat content), whereas we use a mere 250mg per capsule. Moreover, when taken as outlined in the Arachidonic Acid thread, you reduce the amount of Ara that creates harmful eicosanoids AND you are more likely to shuttle it to skeletal muscle as opposed to elsewhere.

Now, for the studies to back my position:

Healthy men supplemented 200mg/d of AA for 16 days, then 1.5g/d from days 16-65 (50 days inclusive) which promoted PGE2 and LTb4 synthesis but did not alter TNF-a, many of the interleukins or other really harmful pro-inflammatory cytokines.

And this is without following our recommendations for including Carnitine AND an emulsifier.

Invalid Link Removed

An increase in PGE2 also decreases other cytokine production, and thus further contributes to the "muscle building" effects.
Invalid Link Removed

It is very important you take what he says with a bit of context - he is referring to people (even if unknowingly) who have a severe imbalance between n6 and n3 intake that stems from the diet, not a 1g supplemental intake of AA.

In any case, we do not recommend AA for those with pre-existing inflammatory conditions, including things like Asthma.
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Thank you for taking the time to provide some clarity
 
Ive ran xgels numerous time and havent had any issue

I kept it at 1G ..did try 1.5G but felt 1G was working fine and no needed to high dose it.
 
I have a joint auto immune disease and when I visited my RA doctor and told her I was just starting this stuff, she said stop :chairshot:
As noted above, anything with joint impacts this stuff can cause you some serious grief. So none-the-less I did not start that cycle.
 
InItForGainz said:
I ran ARA twice and had no adverse reactions from either product or either run...Other than it depleting my bank balance.
I ran Molecular Nutritions X-Factor Advanced for 8 weeks and SNS X-Gels for 8 weeks, had pretty noticeable natty gains from both runs. The DOMS are great and really satisfying too.
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I ran the same several times and never had a reaction and no bloodwork issues.
 
I Think That There's A Certain Level Of Risk With Any Kind Of Supplements, Be They "Natty" Or Otherwise.
You've Just Got To Weigh Up The Risks Vs The Rewards For You Personally.
 
InItForGainz said:
I Think That There's A Certain Level Of Risk With Any Kind Of Supplements, Be They "Natty" Or Otherwise.
You've Just Got To Weigh Up The Risks Vs The Rewards For You Personally.
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This is true. The only thing I stick to forever is creatine multis and whey. Everything else like test boosters or whatever it may be I'll take for a couple months and stop for a while
 
My own opinion here is that when used 50 days on 50 off ARA is safe in healthy individuals

What he can't say/claim as a rep is that ARA is actually purported to even be beneficial to asthmatics... But because safety comes first and an official study is not done, the warning is there to cover that.

ARA use does not cause systemic inflammation though so those worries can be put to rest.

^Anyone who even looked at Examine would have known this^

It's good to be skeptical but when something has had as many safety studies done on it as ARA, it's odd for there still to be a crowd picketing against it without a proven reason

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Driven2lift said:
My own opinion here is that when used 50 days on 50 off ARA is safe in healthy individuals

What he can't say/claim as a rep is that ARA is actually purported to even be beneficial to asthmatics... But because safety comes first and an official study is not done, the warning is there to cover that.

ARA use does not cause systemic inflammation though so those worries can be put to rest.

^Anyone who even looked at Examine would have known this^

It's good to be skeptical but when something has had as many safety studies done on it as ARA, it's odd for there still to be a crowd picketing against it without a proven reason

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This should be put in the ArA help thread.
 
ma70 said:
Unfortunately, because you are a rep, some people may feel your argument is biased or something (read earlier in this thread). Perhaps if other non-SNS minds stepped in, maybe it would be more convincing for some of these guys.
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I think Jiigzz has provided quality information and his write up is defended with research that you can check and make your own judgement on. His status as a rep is nullified by the quality of his argument...
 
drejb said:
Dammit just spend $115 Canadian on the stuff 5 days ago waiting for my shipment
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You'll be good. It's not something you want to do 'too many times a year'. I like doing ARA once a year and now I am using Folidrone 2.0 the rest of the time (I am CDN too brother).
 
Thanks for the clarification guys. Didn't mean to stir the pot with this post. Just lookin for answers as always! Cheers to being super responsive. I may try it out, I remember trying X factor when I was 20. I didn't take it consistently enough to know how it effected me. Maybe I'll try this out. If I feel ****ty or see any sides I'll back off of it.

Cheers!
 
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