Synergistic Compounds? How to know?

AllTheGainz

Active member
How do you know if the components you want to run together in a stack have synergy together, meaning they won't fight for the same receptor spots or dull each others effects/increase advers effects? Is there something in the chemical formula that you read that tells you which is better suited for the compounds you plan to run?

Like nor andro, epi-andro, 1 and 4 andro, dmz, how do you know which will work best with eachother if you want to run a multiple compound stack?
 
If one's DHT (cannot convert to estrogen and actually lowers estrogen as estrogen and DHT do not get along) derived you want a Test derived substance as too many DHT compounds can make you too dry and cause joint /hair loss issues. Nor andro is best paired with a DHT derivative as 19-nors are generally wet compounds (Can convert to estrogen/have prolactin agonism in the body) and DHT is very dry. Too many Test derived compounds can be too wet due to the conversion of estrogen, that's why pairing a DHT derivative with a test base is generally good. Also it depends on the goals for that cycle. If you're aiming for strength you'd generally go DHT based as they have an effect on the CNS allowing you to lift more and have a more aggressive set. Test derived compounds are great for mass as they're generally very anabolic rather than androgenic. So for a mass cycle you'd generally go Test+Deca or Test+Dbol, for a recomp you could go Test+Mast+Tbol, or for a cut you could go Test+Mast+Var/winny. Test is included in almost every cycle as a base, however there are many situations where test can be dropped.
Now of the expamples you gave me here's how i'd run them-

Epi-andro with 1-andro (May experience lethargy here but it's doable, personally i feel 4-andro and 1-andro are better suited, this would be more of a cutter/recomp instead of a bulker.)
Epi-andro with Nor Andro (Very solid bulking/strength stack-Would not use in a cut whatsoever. It will shine in a bulk but with a little tweaking to diet and volume ca be used in a recomp)
Epi-andro with 4 andro (this is 2 bases together one is DHT derived and 1 is test derived so this is an optimal cycle in terms of feel and the roles each compound play with in the human physiology as both Test and DHT are necessary for men.)
1 Andro and 4 Andro (A very common cycle, 1 andro is what will ellicit most of the gains however it will make you lethargic and possibly lose libido, this is where 4 andro will shine in this stack as it's mainly used as a stacker to keep everything working right)
1 Andro and Nor Andro (This would be an amazing bulk cycle IMO, 1 andro ellicits a large amount of mass gain as will any 19-nor compound, 1-andro is drier and nor-andro is wetter both are well suited for gains and this will be a great bulker and Nor andro should fill the role as the base for this cycle.)
DMZ and 4 andro (probably one of the best choices in there, you have a hard gainer such as DMZ great for bulking then you have 4-andro which can increase HGH and IGF-1 and be used as a base.)
DMZ and Nor andro(The absolute best combo of everything you listed for a hardcore bulk, this stack should ellicit huge gains if diet is dialed in and your strength should sky rocket the best bulking option of everything you have listed.)
DMZ and Epi-andro( Here's probably my favorite of them all, i dont bulk cut so every cycle i do is recomp, and my entire workout career has been recomp diet styles, DMZ will ellicit large gains, Epi will keep your muscle hard and defined and sky-rocket strength, overall the second best cycle you could make with all you have listed.)
Here's possibly the best cycle for everything you have listed at least in the recomp aspect-
DMZ, Epi-andro, 4-andro now remember i said recomp if it were a bulk nor-andro would take precedence over 4-andro-
DMZ will ellicit big gains, epi will keep those gains hard dry and vascular along with shooting your strength through the roof, and 4 andro will act as the base.


So basically to determine how compounds will work together, look at there anabolic to androgenic ratios (there are outliers for instance dimethandrostenol 1000+ anabolic ratio and yet is a very dry compound) and look at what each compounds parent hormone is, then look at the role of said parent hormone (Test/DHT/Progestin-19nor-) and decide which effects will suit your goal.
 
How do you know if the components you want to run together in a stack have synergy together, meaning they won't fight for the same receptor spots or dull each others effects/increase advers effects? Is there something in the chemical formula that you read that tells you which is better suited for the compounds you plan to run?

Like nor andro, epi-andro, 1 and 4 andro, dmz, how do you know which will work best with eachother if you want to run a multiple compound stack?

Generally you want to stack compounds that hit different receptors and accomplish different purposes.

Depending on if your are bulking, cutting or recomping.

You want to run wetter compounds during a Bulk like 4 Andro or Trest

You can also run dry bulking compounds like 1 Andro as well. Its versatile and can be used on Bulks, cuts or recomps.

4 Andro converts to Testosterone

1 Andro converts to 1-Testosterone, which is a dry form of test, that does not convert to estrogen.

Epi Andro converts to DHT

If your are looking to bulk, stack 4 Andro with 1 Andro

If you are looking to cut or recomp, stack Epi Andro with 1 Andro

DMZ is a methy designer steroid that is dry, and it also DHT based.
 
So my next question is fairly simple. If I want to run a lean bulk, DMZ, epi andro, and either 4 or nor andro seem like a good stack. I plan on kick starting the stack with 4 weeks of RAD140 which is fairly dry I've been told so I shouldn't have too many issues there. Major issue is dosage and shutdown since I'm a) kickstarting the cycle and b) trying to extend the second half of the cycle to around 6-8 weeks
 
Generally you want to stack compounds that hit different receptors and accomplish different purposes.

Depending on if your are bulking, cutting or recomping.

You want to run wetter compounds during a Bulk like 4 Andro or Trest

You can also run dry bulking compounds like 1 Andro as well. Its versatile and can be used on Bulks, cuts or recomps.

4 Andro converts to Testosterone

1 Andro converts to 1-Testosterone, which is a dry form of test, that does not convert to estrogen.

Epi Andro converts to DHT

If your are looking to bulk, stack 4 Andro with 1 Andro

If you are looking to cut or recomp, stack Epi Andro with 1 Andro

DMZ is a methy designer steroid that is dry, and it also DHT based.

Great info here as always brothers , will screenshot this for future reference
 
If one's DHT (cannot convert to estrogen and actually lowers estrogen as estrogen and DHT do not get along) derived you want a Test derived substance as too many DHT compounds can make you too dry and cause joint /hair loss issues. Nor andro is best paired with a DHT derivative as 19-nors are generally wet compounds (Can convert to estrogen/have prolactin agonism in the body) and DHT is very dry. Too many Test derived compounds can be too wet due to the conversion of estrogen, that's why pairing a DHT derivative with a test base is generally good. Also it depends on the goals for that cycle. If you're aiming for strength you'd generally go DHT based as they have an effect on the CNS allowing you to lift more and have a more aggressive set. Test derived compounds are great for mass as they're generally very anabolic rather than androgenic. So for a mass cycle you'd generally go Test+Deca or Test+Dbol, for a recomp you could go Test+Mast+Tbol, or for a cut you could go Test+Mast+Var/winny. Test is included in almost every cycle as a base, however there are many situations where test can be dropped.
Now of the expamples you gave me here's how i'd run them-

Epi-andro with 1-andro (May experience lethargy here but it's doable, personally i feel 4-andro and 1-andro are better suited, this would be more of a cutter/recomp instead of a bulker.)
Epi-andro with Nor Andro (Very solid bulking/strength stack-Would not use in a cut whatsoever. It will shine in a bulk but with a little tweaking to diet and volume ca be used in a recomp)
Epi-andro with 4 andro (this is 2 bases together one is DHT derived and 1 is test derived so this is an optimal cycle in terms of feel and the roles each compound play with in the human physiology as both Test and DHT are necessary for men.)
1 Andro and 4 Andro (A very common cycle, 1 andro is what will ellicit most of the gains however it will make you lethargic and possibly lose libido, this is where 4 andro will shine in this stack as it's mainly used as a stacker to keep everything working right)
1 Andro and Nor Andro (This would be an amazing bulk cycle IMO, 1 andro ellicits a large amount of mass gain as will any 19-nor compound, 1-andro is drier and nor-andro is wetter both are well suited for gains and this will be a great bulker and Nor andro should fill the role as the base for this cycle.)
DMZ and 4 andro (probably one of the best choices in there, you have a hard gainer such as DMZ great for bulking then you have 4-andro which can increase HGH and IGF-1 and be used as a base.)
DMZ and Nor andro(The absolute best combo of everything you listed for a hardcore bulk, this stack should ellicit huge gains if diet is dialed in and your strength should sky rocket the best bulking option of everything you have listed.)
DMZ and Epi-andro( Here's probably my favorite of them all, i dont bulk cut so every cycle i do is recomp, and my entire workout career has been recomp diet styles, DMZ will ellicit large gains, Epi will keep your muscle hard and defined and sky-rocket strength, overall the second best cycle you could make with all you have listed.)
Here's possibly the best cycle for everything you have listed at least in the recomp aspect-
DMZ, Epi-andro, 4-andro now remember i said recomp if it were a bulk nor-andro would take precedence over 4-andro-
DMZ will ellicit big gains, epi will keep those gains hard dry and vascular along with shooting your strength through the roof, and 4 andro will act as the base.


So basically to determine how compounds will work together, look at there anabolic to androgenic ratios (there are outliers for instance dimethandrostenol 1000+ anabolic ratio and yet is a very dry compound) and look at what each compounds parent hormone is, then look at the role of said parent hormone (Test/DHT/Progestin-19nor-) and decide which effects will suit your goal.

My post above was suppose to be a multi quote , both your post had great info gentleman!
 
Now I assume when you stack this stuff you have to run it differently as you'll experience more or less sides from each of the compounds at work. Not quite sure how to run a DMZ, epi and 4 andro cycle. I know it states you shouldn't run Epi longer then 6 weeks so if I'm pushing for an 8 week cycle, how would I stack it all? Just push the epi for 2 more weeks or start/stop it early?
 
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