Herder's 2014 Log: All About the XPC Semi's

Deadlifts today

Rev Hyper
320X2x10
370X2x15

Woof.

Sumo
Work up
495x1 hands
Add straps (humid and no chalk)
555X1 huge raw PR. Straps help me a lot on sumo though.

Sadiv set
385X37 alternated sumo and conventional. No idea how many of each though.

Sled
90 x3 x90Yes one power walk, one backward drag, one pullthrough walk with a band around the knees.
S/s backwards med ball throw
X3x10

I'm sure I'll be very sore tomorrow.
 
Hyde said:
Hey Dude, when's the next comp?
Click to expand...

Oh hell, I dunno. I'd like to make some progress and go down a weight class. I'm thinking about raw no wraps at 220. Go for 1650 or so.
 
Rep bench

Duffalo max grip
210X20,18

Really wanted 20 and 20, but my body said no. Too much coffee, not enough water and my body was fighting me.

Rolling tri
45X3x10

Cross body tri ext
3x20

Renegade rows
44x5x20

Pullapart series

Hammer curls, DB presses, DB seated clean and press all done before.

Already very sore. This is gonna be bad.
 
Anybody up for an in depth conversation about conjugate periodization?

Got some insight from the DVD that I'd like to get some discussion on.

Rodja herderdude and whomever else has some experience/info about it.
 
jimbuick said:
Anybody up for an in depth conversation about conjugate periodization?

Got some insight from the DVD that I'd like to get some discussion on.

Rodja herderdude and whomever else has some experience/info about it.
Click to expand...

You have the Wenning DVD, right? I should buy it. I'm totally in to come to a greater understanding in it. Let's talk.
 
OK, here is the meat and potatoes of it.


Obviously the work is split into Max Effort (ME), Dynamic Effort (DE), and Repetition Effort (RE). The RE work is all of the assistance, ME is the main lift on the ME days, and DE is main lift on DE days.

For ME:

1-5 RM, generally between 3-5 in the "offseason". Choose a rep range and max out that rep range, don't say you're doing 6s and then end up with a final set of 5. Big focus here is working to 100% of whatever you can on that particular day.


For DE:

30-50%, erring on the lighter side. He recommends waving 30-35-40%, but the most important part is moving the weights at .7m/s or faster. On the 4th week you unload and do something like 10x10 or 15x15, it helps unload fatigue from the CNS and is very challenging for the muscles. Lower work should not be done for more than 2 reps, upper for no more than 3 reps (per set). As the percentage increases, the number of sets should decrease (10 x 2 week 1, 8 x 2 week 2, 6 x 2 week 3).


For RE:

Percentage can range from 5-85% of 1RM, should be constantly changing duration (setxrep), tempo, positions, and movements. All work is for weak points (lats, back, PC, abs), should not be doing any work for the "strong" muscle groups (quads, pecs, delts, etc.) Not to be used on the competition lifts, comp lifts should be kept to ME/DE work not RE work.


There should be 72 hours between a ME and DE day of the same muscles.



Warmups: This should be for potentiation of weak or hard to activate muscle groups, should be low intensity and moderate volume. Warmups are done as a circuit, 3 exercises (that should be different each day) done for 3-4 sets of 25 or so.


Accessory: 4-6 exercises each session, start with biggest weaknesses first, total session length should be 50-70 minutes in length (not including warmup).


Deload: The body gets strong in 3 week waves, back down on week 4. Conjugate the deloads as well, keep the sessions the same through the deload weeks outside of the factor that you remove for the deload. Example: 3 weeks training, deload (regular week minus ME work) // 3 weeks training, deload (regular week minus DE work) // 3 weeks training, deload (regular week with 50% accessory volume) // 3 weeks training, deload (regular week with sessions lasting no more than 25-35 minutes.


Mini sessions: No more than 10-12 minutes in duration, heart rate stays below 120-130bpm, based entirely on weaknesses. No more than 3 exercises, and the weight should be non challenging and should lead to no more than a slight pump. These should help recovery, and over the course of the year it is a huge increase in volume with minimal impact on recovery.



Now the big thing is the deloads. Earlier he states that you should unload your DE work (doing the 10x10 or 15x15) and later he states that you should deload every 4th week and conjugate those deloads. He doesn't specify what that means for the DE (on the weeks you are removing other variables), but my assumption is you do the unload session as opposed to traditional DE work. Then, on the weeks you are removing your DE work for the deload you do not do the 10x10 work and only do the assistance stuff.




Thoughts: Biggest things I see are a lack of volume for a lot of muscle groups. He recommends only doing work for the weaknesses on your RE work, so muscles like the pecs and quads go almost entirely unworked (outside of your benching and squatting as main work). Outside of that, the biggest changes over a traditional westside model (from the Louie articles) is the percentages on speed work and the deloading. His mini session guidelines are also different than the mini workouts laid out by Louie.


So there it is, any questions just ask. Any critiques on how you would implement all of (or some of) that would be great!
 
I've had luck with his percentages on upper DE. I know Hoff's bar weight is pretty low on DE upper (only example I've seen was 210 bar weight) and also that Hoff judged a Westside guy I train with at a meet and told him his speed work was too heavy. He lightened the speed work and went from 800 to 875 on bench.

I can totally see what you're saying on the pecs and quads. When I watch Wenning lift, I see a bench grip and technique that keeps stress off of the pecs and his squat and deadlift are hip dominant. I think it boils down to where your weak points are in the lifts and if you need extra work on the pecs or quads, hit them.

I see what you're saying on the deloads. I like your idea. Any time it falls on skip DE work, skip it, and all of the Times you're doing something different for your deload, do the unload.

Watch the interview with CWS for another tweak on he He peaks differently from Westside. Basically it's the comp lift 12,9,6, and 3 weeks out and the rest remains conjugate.

Did he talk about how he does his DE squats? I was under the impression he did not do a true DE day for lower because he's naturally explosive in the lower body and he's a raw, no wraps squatter.

Any input on his use of foam for box squats? I see a lot of his box squats are done with different foam pads, usually a huge one that has a lot of give.

I hadn't paid attention enough to Louie's mini sessions. How do they differ from Wenning's?

Anything on recovery aside from the big warm-up (which I love) and the mini sessions?

Last, did he have any input on sample ME exercises he's seen work well across the board? I still struggle with he and Tate's builder:tester dichotomy. Perhaps I don't conjugate the main movement enough to have a good stable of exercises, nor do I test often enough.
 
herderdude said:
I've had luck with his percentages on upper DE. I know Hoff's bar weight is pretty low on DE upper (only example I've seen was 210 bar weight) and also that Hoff judged a Westside guy I train with at a meet and told him his speed work was too heavy. He lightened the speed work and went from 800 to 875 on bench.

I can totally see what you're saying on the pecs and quads. When I watch Wenning lift, I see a bench grip and technique that keeps stress off of the pecs and his squat and deadlift are hip dominant. I think it boils down to where your weak points are in the lifts and if you need extra work on the pecs or quads, hit them.

I see what you're saying on the deloads. I like your idea. Any time it falls on skip DE work, skip it, and all of the Times you're doing something different for your deload, do the unload.

Watch the interview with CWS for another tweak on he He peaks differently from Westside. Basically it's the comp lift 12,9,6, and 3 weeks out and the rest remains conjugate.

Did he talk about how he does his DE squats? I was under the impression he did not do a true DE day for lower because he's naturally explosive in the lower body and he's a raw, no wraps squatter.

Any input on his use of foam for box squats? I see a lot of his box squats are done with different foam pads, usually a huge one that has a lot of give.

I hadn't paid attention enough to Louie's mini sessions. How do they differ from Wenning's?

Anything on recovery aside from the big warm-up (which I love) and the mini sessions?

Last, did he have any input on sample ME exercises he's seen work well across the board? I still struggle with he and Tate's builder:tester dichotomy. Perhaps I don't conjugate the main movement enough to have a good stable of exercises, nor do I test often enough.
Click to expand...

He didn't really talk about his specific training, no. He just spoke about how he would squat/deadlift on the same day (squat first), and the same 30-35-40 range that you would use for upper body work.

He didn't speak at all about exercises selection that I can recall. His use of foam I'm sure is just part of switching the stimulus, he puts a lot of emphasis on changing every variable every week. I've seen him speak about how he has 25 exercises per lift that he rotates as a main movement.


In the BoM, Louie talks about how the extra session should be no longer than 30 minutes (which is a lot more room for work). Matts are no longer than 12.

Now the warmup is not supposed to be specifically taxing, its supposed to be to activate hard to fire muscle groups more than anything. He doesn't speak about recovery techniques as much as he just stresses the importance of recovery. The mini sessions are supposed to speed recovery, and he says to only start with 1-2 a week. He said it took him 3(?) years to work up to the number of mini sessions he does now, which I believe is 6. He also says that powerlifters should do cardio 3-4x a week for about 30 minutes (looking at 2-3 hours of cardio a week), but he stresses that the cardio should be done below 125bpm.


Again, for exercises he doesn't talk about them a lot just that you should change them every week (even if that's only a change in rep range, stance width, etc.), and that they should address weaknesses in the lifts. Oh, and that he doesn't really like Good Mornings.
 
I saw the video with CWS as well, and after watching the video the 12/9/6/3 doesn't make sense to me within the yearly plan. If he programs for a deload every 4th week, then how does he hit the competition lifts heavy on the week he should be deloading?


Do you not deload during the last 12 weeks of meet prep? Or do you just not remove ME work for that period of time and instead remove DE or accessory volume?
 
I'd probably deload week 13, do the unloads on DE days that correspond, and taper assistance volume down. Try not to deload. That's my play anyway, I'm sure there are others.
 
My views are basically the opposite of all of this conjugate stuff so I'll just stay out of this one. I prefer Israetels stuff.
 
SweetLou321 said:
My views are basically the opposite of all of this conjugate stuff so I'll just stay out of this one. I prefer Israetels stuff.
Click to expand...

And that is a very grounded preference to have. Hard to argue with the logic of practicing what you want to get better at, frequently with weight that lets you ingrain good technical cues. But there's obviously a lot of ways to skin the cat, and it's certainly good to see what views tend to be shared. I.e., routine cardio can be helpful, frequency can pay long term dividends (via mini-session stimulus here).

I really enjoyed the CWS interview, Matt letting him pick his brain. Concerning the 12/9/6/3 - Matt is peaking after all, and basically going to start resting up after that 3wks out attempt, so seems like deloading between 12-3 would be counterproductive to fatigue accumulation. And for him it's only once a year, so I'm sure that's when he's truly on the gas with no brakes.
 
Hyde said:
And that is a very grounded preference to have. Hard to argue with the logic of practicing what you want to get better at, frequently with weight that lets you ingrain good technical cues. But there's obviously a lot of ways to skin the cat, and it's certainly good to see what views tend to be shared. I.e., routine cardio can be helpful, frequency can pay long term dividends (via mini-session stimulus here).

I really enjoyed the CWS interview, Matt letting him pick his brain. Concerning the 12/9/6/3 - Matt is peaking after all, and basically going to start resting up after that 3wks out attempt, so seems like deloading between 12-3 would be counterproductive to fatigue accumulation. And for him it's only once a year, so I'm sure that's when he's truly on the gas with no brakes.
Click to expand...
That makes sense, deloading through the year helps with continued forward progress but deloading in a peaking cycle would definitely slow fatigue accumulation.

I was already doing something like that as it was, for those reasons he mentioned (not having the movement feel foreign on meet day).


Also, I just remembered something he said in that interview about how he has weights and reps picked out for those days ahead of time. That probably is a bit of a "deload" for the first 6 weeks as it is since he doesn't go balls to the wall.
SweetLou321 said:
My views are basically the opposite of all of this conjugate stuff so I'll just stay out of this one. I prefer Israetels stuff.
Click to expand...

Views aside, there is science and experience to show it works.


But as Hyde said above, there are a lot of ways to get strong. Truthfully though, I figured you would benefit from it more than anyone because of how it shifts movements ever so slightly to avoid overuse injuries.
 
herderdude said:
I'd probably deload week 13, do the unloads on DE days that correspond, and taper assistance volume down. Try not to deload. That's my play anyway, I'm sure there are others.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense to me.


That's what I did last time anyway, taper volume down on assistance and work higher intensity. (Going from 5s all the way down to 2s on my first supplemental lift as the meet got closer).
 
jimbuick said:
That makes perfect sense to me.


That's what I did last time anyway, taper volume down on assistance and work higher intensity. (Going from 5s all the way down to 2s on my first supplemental lift as the meet got closer).
Click to expand...

It's worked for me. I don't get overly involved in the minutiae. Intensity up, volume down, shouldn't feel too hot 2-4 weeks out, Should feel pretty good toward the end of meet week.
 
jimbuick said:
That makes sense, deloading through the year helps with continued forward progress but deloading in a peaking cycle would definitely slow fatigue accumulation.

I was already doing something like that as it was, for those reasons he mentioned (not having the movement feel foreign on meet day).


Also, I just remembered something he said in that interview about how he has weights and reps picked out for those days ahead of time. That probably is a bit of a "deload" for the first 6 weeks as it is since he doesn't go balls to the wall.


Views aside, there is science and experience to show it works.


But as Hyde said above, there are a lot of ways to get strong. Truthfully though, I figured you would benefit from it more than anyone because of how it shifts movements ever so slightly to avoid overuse injuries.
Click to expand...

I would love to see the science which is what shapes my views. I never saw any real science to support the west side stuff when I did it for two years and my total moved down by a lot at first and took 2 years to hit some very small prs in the grand scheme from there. I 100% prefer to stick the main lifts are refine my technique as that is the kind of lifter I am. I am 100% open to learn more so if you have some resources let's talk shop.
 
SweetLou321 said:
I would love to see the science which is what shapes my views. I never saw any real science to support the west side stuff when I did it for two years and my total moved down by a lot at first and took 2 years to hit some very small prs in the grand scheme from there. I 100% prefer to stick the main lifts are refine my technique as that is the kind of lifter I am. I am 100% open to learn more so if you have some resources let's talk shop.
Click to expand...

Never saw any science?


Not even this?

Invalid Link Removed


Nothing wrong with that brother, getting the technique right is going to net the fastest gains but eventually it just comes down to getting stronger.


You say you saw progress with a Westside-esque model in the long term, which is exactly the type of progress that training gets you.


You don't progress as quickly at first, because you aren't hitting a ton of frequency in competition specific lifts (to refine technique). But you are getting stronger and more explosive as you refine technique (over a longer period).


I have a few reasons why I choose to train that way:

1. I've done it for some time (WS4SB was my first "program". )
2. Used successfully in the Army because I could work around overuse injuries (among others) with different variations
3. Always made consistent progress
4. Kept training interesting, and in the end that's what it's all about. This is a hobby, so if you don't enjoy it, why do it?
 
Yes, I realize I'm running conjugate (it's actually concurrent, but that's a different story) at this moment, but I've gone back and forth on my feelings.

Here's kinda what I've noticed for myself: I'm not a power person; I'm a strength person. For me, training specifically for power (aka DE) has helped me both directly and indirectly. The direct benefit is obvious; my bar speed is better and it's extra skill practice. The indirect has been the small things I've been able to pick up because of it (e.g. positional, coaching cues, etc).

I will say this about it. It takes either solid ass recovery, some good drugs, or, at a minimum, extra hypercaloric.

On the discussion, no way in hell I get anything favorable out of neglecting whole muscle groups. I need volume for hypertrophy throughout the cycle or I atrophy (huge can't do with gear) after about 3-4 weeks. Not true muscle atrophy, but no stimulus for max glycogen retention.
 
jimbuick said:
Never saw any science?


Not even this?

Invalid Link Removed


Nothing wrong with that brother, getting the technique right is going to net the fastest gains but eventually it just comes down to getting stronger.


You say you saw progress with a Westside-esque model in the long term, which is exactly the type of progress that training gets you.


You don't progress as quickly at first, because you aren't hitting a ton of frequency in competition specific lifts (to refine technique). But you are getting stronger and more explosive as you refine technique (over a longer period).


I have a few reasons why I choose to train that way:

1. I've done it for some time (WS4SB was my first "program". )
2. Used successfully in the Army because I could work around overuse injuries (among others) with different variations
3. Always made consistent progress
4. Kept training interesting, and in the end that's what it's all about. This is a hobby, so if you don't enjoy it, why do it?
Click to expand...

I have that book, never read it. I want to see per reviewed studies in the end so I will see that books references says. Thanks for sharing.

Yes I did, but I lost so much strength first then had to work my ass to get it back. Not to mention it twice as long to hit smaller prs then I have hit using for conventional training.

But if you are having fun then that is all that counts in the end bud. I want to optimize my training if I'm gonna do it as I no longer have fun when I'm not getting better lol.

Also you can rotate lifts on block lifting to avoid overuse injuries and I've played with it but I decided I need a technique base then I can get away from it and know I have a set in stone set up to use at the time I get back to the comp lifts.
 
SweetLou321 said:
I have that book, never read it. I want to see per reviewed studies in the end so I will see that books references says. Thanks for sharing.

Yes I did, but I lost so much strength first then had to work my ass to get it back. Not to mention it twice as long to hit smaller prs then I have hit using for conventional training.

But if you are having fun then that is all that counts in the end bud. I want to optimize my training if I'm gonna do it as I no longer have fun when I'm not getting better lol.

Also you can rotate lifts on block lifting to avoid overuse injuries and I've played with it but I decided I need a technique base then I can get away from it and know I have a set in stone set up to use at the time I get back to the comp lifts.
Click to expand...

One of the things I vehemently disagree with straying away from the competition lifts for too long. Don't get wrong, I like some SSB to a box for ME work every now and then, but, IMO, you can't stray away from practicing the competition skill.
 
Rodja said:
One of the things I vehemently disagree with straying away from the competition lifts for too long. Don't get wrong, I like some SSB to a box for ME work every now and then, but, IMO, you can't stray away from practicing the competition skill.
Click to expand...

But that's actually part of the whole thing, isn't it?


Finding the movements that allow you to make the most progress and using them. There's no one size fits all lift with this type of training, you find the lifts that carry over the most and do them to get better.


That's why you guys don't see me box squat incredibly often. It doesn't carry over a lot, so I don't do it real often.
 
SweetLou321 said:
I have that book, never read it. I want to see per reviewed studies in the end so I will see that books references says. Thanks for sharing.

Yes I did, but I lost so much strength first then had to work my ass to get it back. Not to mention it twice as long to hit smaller prs then I have hit using for conventional training.

But if you are having fun then that is all that counts in the end bud. I want to optimize my training if I'm gonna do it as I no longer have fun when I'm not getting better lol.

Also you can rotate lifts on block lifting to avoid overuse injuries and I've played with it but I decided I need a technique base then I can get away from it and know I have a set in stone set up to use at the time I get back to the comp lifts.
Click to expand...

It's kind of confusing, tbh.


I don't think that reading it should change your mind about training, because your experience is that you can get stronger at a faster rate with differing methods.



But, if nothing else, it can give some insights into what type of things you can do with your training to be a better all around lifter.
 
Conjugate works because you're doing big, heavy lifts with a barbell on your back or in your hands. End of story. Really shouldn't be a shock when people get strong utilizing its tenants.
 
I actually like to get away from straight up comp lifts for long periods. Then I make adjustments when I get back into the comp lifts. The body changes, weak points change, little injuries and things alter what's optimal over time.

I'm of the opinion that squatting, pressing, and pulling have universal tenets that apply no matter where the bar is, what the bar is, or what you're wearing. Slight adjustments from there. So you're not going to lose your mojo if you don't comp lift for a couple months, if you've ever been good at them. You just have to add them back in about 10-12 weeks out.

Specialty bars and varied grips and stances keep.the body healthier and keep RPE high with low weight.
 
jimbuick said:
But that's actually part of the whole thing, isn't it?


Finding the movements that allow you to make the most progress and using them. There's no one size fits all lift with this type of training, you find the lifts that carry over the most and do them to get better.


That's why you guys don't see me box squat incredibly often. It doesn't carry over a lot, so I don't do it real often.
Click to expand...

That's part of every well designed program/template. Whether it be volume, RPE, bars, lifts, etc., these are all factors in a given block and isn't mutually exclusive to Westside.
 
Duramaxhd said:
You don't believe the supplement factor is a issue with
this?
Click to expand...

Don't read too much into it, Ian kept it simple for a very good reason.

I don't believe you need drugs to make it on Westside if you make some adjustments. You won't be doing it by the book, But it's okay.

Not saying you fall into this category James, but lots of people take a perfectly good brain and let it get in the way of their getting stronger, rather than using their brain to facilitate getting stronger.
 
herderdude said:
I actually like to get away from straight up comp lifts for long periods. Then I make adjustments when I get back into the comp lifts. The body changes, weak points change, little injuries and things alter what's optimal over time.

I'm of the opinion that squatting, pressing, and pulling have universal tenets that apply no matter where the bar is, what the bar is, or what you're wearing. Slight adjustments from there. So you're not going to lose your mojo if you don't comp lift for a couple months, if you've ever been good at them. You just have to add them back in about 10-12 weeks out.

Specialty bars and varied grips and stances keep.the body healthier and keep RPE high with low weight.
Click to expand...

Agree that stances and grips should be altered, but, like any skill, you can't take a long break from it. I personally don't think needing 1-2 weeks as an adjustment is productive during meet prep.

For example, although BJJ is still a grappling art, I wouldn't spend months exclusively training it if I were a wrestler. There are still universal aspects to both, but still very different.
 
Rodja said:
Agree that stances and grips should be altered, but, like any skill, you can't take a long break from it. I personally don't think needing 1-2 weeks as an adjustment is productive during meet prep.

For example, although BJJ is still a grappling art, I wouldn't spend months exclusively training it if I were a wrestler. There are still universal aspects to both, but still very different.
Click to expand...

I agree totally with you on the grappling comment, but I don't really feel that way about the powerlifts. I should alter my statement, I still have one session a month competition style or so. So I don't spend months away from those moves.
 
herderdude said:
I agree totally with you on the grappling comment, but I don't really feel that way about the powerlifts. I should alter my statement, I still have one session a month competition style or so. So I don't spend months away from those moves.
Click to expand...

Now that I will also support. I don't think offseason should be exclusive to either side even if it's just an accessory.
 
Rodja said:
That's part of every well designed program/template. Whether it be volume, RPE, bars, lifts, etc., these are all factors in a given block and isn't mutually exclusive to Westside.
Click to expand...

Oh no, I get that.


I just think that most people (not necessarily people in this convo either) believe that the only way to conjugate is Louie's way.


Which, as we know, is just not true. He only put into articles the things that they specifically do, but anyone who's ever trained there always says he applies the lifts most needed to his lifters and for a long time those were certain things because he had a certain type of person to train (geared elite PLers, mostly)
 
The only real thing against west side is specificity and not dedicating periods to certain qualities. Making it hard to set the frame work for a proper peak.
 
SweetLou321 said:
The only real thing against west side is specificity and not dedicating periods to certain qualities. Making it hard to set the frame work for a proper peak.
Click to expand...

I hate to sound like one of those science guys, but specificity should be the number one parameter.
 
SweetLou321 said:
The only real thing against west side is specificity and not dedicating periods to certain qualities. Making it hard to set the frame work for a proper peak.
Click to expand...

Well, the specificity is what you make of it.


The same framework can be as specific, or as unspecific, as you want/need it to be.


Peaking can be difficult, but tapering the assistance would make for a pretty solid peak. That's what I did at my last meet, really started hitting the first few movements hard and heavy after the singles.


Where towards the very end of the meet prep, I would hit my max single and drop 5% and do as many doubles as I could complete.


Then took two weeks to unload fatigue, with just a couple of sessions above 70% in the first week and a full meet week deload the week of.
 
jimbuick said:
Well, the specificity is what you make of it.


The same framework can be as specific, or as unspecific, as you want/need it to be.


Peaking can be difficult, but tapering the assistance would make for a pretty solid peak. That's what I did at my last meet, really started hitting the first few movements hard and heavy after the singles.


Where towards the very end of the meet prep, I would hit my max single and drop 5% and do as many doubles as I could complete.


Then took two weeks to unload fatigue, with just a couple of sessions above 70% in the first week and a full meet week deload the week of.
Click to expand...

If you follow the ideas of west side you have to not be specific according to Louie so that doesn't really work per say. Since we are not rotating qualities and training all at the same time there is no unloading from a qualities adaptations. So if always doing 1-3 reps above 90%, you can not just hammer the comp lifts here as you would hit a wall fast according to Louie and I agree on that. So instead of dropping from 90-100% to 60-70% then going 75-85%, then 90-100% again ect. The only way to avoid adaptation is to rotate the lift being done thus taking us away from specificity. Where changes percents also changes some qualities of specificity and allows you to still work the groove of the comp lifts baring no injuries preventing one from doing so. Second issue here is general strength as the literature knows it is built between 70-85%, west side almost misses the mark here always hitting the heavy 1-3 reps range. That range trains motor units more then anything. But why are we training such specific qualities in lifts that are not the comp lifts? Idc how technical my ssb is on meet day after all. So I feel some things they do are a touch backwards in some aspects when we look at the goal being performing on the platform and not just in the gym.
 
SweetLou321 said:
If you follow the ideas of west side you have to not be specific according to Louie so that doesn't really work per say. Since we are not rotating qualities and training all at the same time there is no unloading from a qualities adaptations. So if always doing 1-3 reps above 90%, you can not just hammer the comp lifts here as you would hit a wall fast according to Louie and I agree on that. So instead of dropping from 90-100% to 60-70% then going 75-85%, then 90-100% again ect. The only way to avoid adaptation is to rotate the lift being done thus taking us away from specificity. Where changes percents also changes some qualities of specificity and allows you to still work the groove of the comp lifts baring no injuries preventing one from doing so. Second issue here is general strength as the literature knows it is built between 70-85%, west side almost misses the mark here always hitting the heavy 1-3 reps range. That range trains motor units more then anything. But why are we training such specific qualities in lifts that are not the comp lifts? Idc how technical my ssb is on meet day after all. So I feel some things they do are a touch backwards in some aspects when we look at the goal being performing on the platform and not just in the gym.
Click to expand...

You have a skewed perception of what counts as variation in a conjugate system.


Comp Stance pause squats, comp squats, narrow stance, high bar, low bar, etc. All of these can be very specific to competition movements, with only minor differences, and still be different enough to be rotated through and avoid overuse and continue making progress in the comp lifts.

Grip width, stance width, tempo, bars, boxes, rep range, boards, 1 band, 2, 3, chain, both, it's all just variation. How varied you want your main lifts to be is entirely up to you.


The whole point is to find the lifts that have the most carryover (best carryover of specificity, weakness building, etc.) and then work the hell out of them until you find something that works it better.
 
jimbuick said:
You have a skewed perception of what counts as variation in a conjugate system.


Comp Stance pause squats, comp squats, narrow stance, high bar, low bar, etc. All of these can be very specific to competition movements, with only minor differences, and still be different enough to be rotated through and avoid overuse and continue making progress in the comp lifts.

Grip width, stance width, tempo, bars, boxes, rep range, boards, 1 band, 2, 3, chain, both, it's all just variation. How varied you want your main lifts to be is entirely up to you.


The whole point is to find the lifts that have the most carryover (best carryover of specificity, weakness building, etc.) and then work the hell out of them until you find something that works it better.
Click to expand...

I am aware these all count. But why would I want to train motor unit refinement in moves that are not the comp move? Those lifts would be better served for the 60-85% range and the classic west side templates does not account for this. I am speaking the true me/de/re work written as Louie writes it.
 
Bar placement and stance width are not what I would call minor differences considering its not uncommon to have huge discrepancies between the two. Just high bar and low bar alone have very distinct differences from the unrack forward.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top