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Political Issues around the world

CJNator

Well-known member
So I want to dedicate this thread to political issues around the world from the Orlando shooting to the Brexit to whatever. Keep in mind IF YOU'RE EASILY OFFENDED DON'T SUB TO THE THREAD :). I want to kick it off with the Orlando shooting and everything revolving around it. There are a ton of conspiracies and questions popping up so I'll start off with this Invalid Link Removed I'll trust a black widow spider before I'll trust government but why would this pop up now?
 
So Napolitano is the one who had access to this info? My thoughts are the time in which he said they all died are the official times of death, when they were observed dead by officials.
 
If this is so then he may be just be the only one open about it. The official time of death would be when they are officially dead unless he misspoke but he should have came out and said so. Basically he is saying it's a FBI cover up, Invalid Link Removed so there is the official story and then this
 
Jiigzz said:
Good thread, but I think the trump thread is a general chat thread for politics anyway ;)
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Oh man, I lost alot of life in that Trump thread, I dunno I have time for this one, lol
 
Jiigzz said:
Good thread, but I think the trump thread is a general chat thread for politics anyway ;)
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ax1 said:
Oh man, I lost alot of life in that Trump thread, I dunno I have time for this one, lol
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I want to just make this thread for anything so we don't need to harp on just Trump, I got banned from that thread for a little bit but I can join up again.
 
Good idea for a thread. Sadly religious and political discussions always seem to get pretty heated around here, and lead to name calling and bigotry. Hopefully everyone can stay civil during the discussions in this thread.
 
Dirty Dan said:
Good idea for a thread. Sadly religious and political discussions always seem to get pretty heated around here, and lead to name calling and bigotry. Hopefully everyone can stay civil during the discussions in this thread.
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Agreed
 
Anyone else think there is WAY more to the new Orleans shooting than what we know. Why else would all evidence(911 calls etc) be swiped and made confidential, well respected judge napolitano said no one died until 5:13, there are couple of videos of what sounds like OVER 100 gun shots after the FBI breached in.
 
Dirty Dan said:
Good idea for a thread. Sadly religious and political discussions always seem to get pretty heated around here, and lead to name calling and bigotry. Hopefully everyone can stay civil during the discussions in this thread.
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They do generally go that way and I hope so too but it's probably going to happen lol.
 
rtmilburn said:
Anyone else think there is WAY more to the new Orleans shooting than what we know. Why else would all evidence(911 calls etc) be swiped and made confidential, well respected judge napolitano said no one died until 5:13, there are couple of videos of what sounds like OVER 100 gun shots after the FBI breached in.
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Oh yea, I think the swat team either was ordered to kill them to push gun control or out of incompetence. Many people may say "why would they do that" or "they wouldn't do that" but that's because they choose to humanize them(not saying they aren't human of course).
 
CJNator said:
Oh yea, I think the swat team either was ordered to kill them to push gun control or out of incompetence. Many people may say "why would they do that" or "they wouldn't do that" but that's because they choose to humanize them(not saying they aren't human of course).
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My thoughts exactly
 
CJNator said:
Oh yea, I think the swat team either was ordered to kill them to push gun control or out of incompetence. Many people may say "why would they do that" or "they wouldn't do that" but that's because they choose to humanize them(not saying they aren't human of course).
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Pretty big conspiracy you putting out there, and almost every single mass shooting someone says it was set up to bring about gun control.

Chances are a guy got access to a gun and decided to kill a lot of people and the SWAT teams were sent in to neutralise him. Believe it or not, HRT members are extraordinarily trained to be able to fire under an inordinate amount of stress and correctly identify a target before engaging. There is no way an entire team dedicated to protecting the lives of those they are sworn to protect, would massacre so many people to push a failed agenda
 
Jiigzz said:
Pretty big conspiracy you putting out there, and almost every single mass shooting someone says it was set up to bring about gun control.

Chances are a guy got access to a gun and decided to kill a lot of people and the SWAT teams were sent in to neutralise him. Believe it or not, HRT members are extraordinarily trained to be able to fire under an inordinate amount of stress and correctly identify a target before engaging. There is no way an entire team dedicated to protecting the lives of those they are sworn to protect, would massacre so many people to push a failed agenda
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I never buy into conspiracies but this one does have traction. I'm almost anti-conspiracy theory, but I'm mean come on, there is so much evidence pointing to being more than what we know. I'm not saying the motive was for gun control. Although there is something going on that we don't know.
 
rtmilburn said:
I never buy into conspiracies but this one does have traction. I'm almost anti-conspiracy theory, but I'm mean come on, there is so much evidence pointing to being more than what we know. I'm not saying the motive was for gun control. Although there is something going on that we don't know.
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Maybe. I dunno.

But just because something isnt disclosed yet, doesn't mean there is something more sinister at play.

Any links for reading?
 
Jiigzz said:
Maybe. I dunno.

But just because something isnt disclosed yet, doesn't mean there is something more sinister at play.

Any links for reading?
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Ill post tomorrow I'm tired. I'm not necessarily saying sinister but something we aren't aware of is going on. I'm think negligence more than anything.
 
rtmilburn said:
Ill post tomorrow I'm tired. I'm not necessarily saying sinister but something we aren't aware of is going on. I'm think negligence more than anything.
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I honestly dont know, but I would find it very out of character for SWAT/ HRT members to agree to kill a lot of people for the sake of gun control, or any other reason for that matter
 
Jiigzz said:
Pretty big conspiracy you putting out there, and almost every single mass shooting someone says it was set up to bring about gun control.

Chances are a guy got access to a gun and decided to kill a lot of people and the SWAT teams were sent in to neutralise him. Believe it or not, HRT members are extraordinarily trained to be able to fire under an inordinate amount of stress and correctly identify a target before engaging. There is no way an entire team dedicated to protecting the lives of those they are sworn to protect, would massacre so many people to push a failed agenda
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This.

I know a lot of guys on SWAT here in Jacksonville, and believe it or not they are normal people like you and I. Not some murderous drones capable of killing innocents on command. In this instance all the survivors would have to be in on the conspiracy. Nonsense, IMO.
 
RegisterJr said:
This.

I know a lot of guys on SWAT here in Jacksonville, and believe it or not they are normal people like you and I. Not some murderous drones capable of killing innocents on command. In this instance all the survivors would have to be in on the conspiracy. Nonsense, IMO.
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Well murderers, pedophiles, rapists, etc.... are normal people too and act like normal people, they can just be doing their job and following orders. Plus some people did come out and say there were multiple shooters.
 
Jiigzz said:
Pretty big conspiracy you putting out there, and almost every single mass shooting someone says it was set up to bring about gun control.

Chances are a guy got access to a gun and decided to kill a lot of people and the SWAT teams were sent in to neutralise him. Believe it or not, HRT members are extraordinarily trained to be able to fire under an inordinate amount of stress and correctly identify a target before engaging. There is no way an entire team dedicated to protecting the lives of those they are sworn to protect, would massacre so many people to push a failed agenda
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I was saying it's either conspiracy or incompetence, also they have been used to push gun control. I'm no conspiracy theorist but we can't just ignore abnormalities. I don't think they personally want to do it, it would be a call from a higher up if it is so.
 
CJNator said:
Well murderers, pedophiles, rapists, etc.... are normal people too and act like normal people, they can just be doing their job and following orders. Plus some people did come out and say there were multiple shooters.
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wow. Are yo seriously grouping SWAT/ HRT members with murderers and pedophiles simply because you personally haven't had all the facts made available to you? What you may fail to realise is that in a high stress situation, remembering facts is incredibly hard. Sounds and faces blur, panic leads to you seeing and/ or hearing things that didn't actually occur.

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There are all sorts of unfounded conspiracy theories on this: the police hated Orlando and/ or gay people, they set it up for gun control, etc. People do this all the time with zero backing information other than "well we haven't been told otherwise so it must be true"

CJNator said:
I was saying it's either conspiracy or incompetence, also they have been used to push gun control. I'm no conspiracy theorist but we can't just ignore abnormalities. I don't think they personally want to do it, it would be a call from a higher up if it is so.
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Just lol.

Thinking a SWAT member, one who started off as a police officer most likely, is capable of murder just to enforce a gun policy is just stupid.
 
Jiigzz said:
wow. Are yo seriously grouping SWAT/ HRT members with murderers and pedophiles simply because you personally haven't had all the facts made available to you? What you may fail to realise is that in a high stress situation, remembering facts is incredibly hard. Sounds and faces blur, panic leads to you seeing and/ or hearing things that didn't actually occur.

Invalid Link Removed

There are all sorts of unfounded conspiracy theories on this: the police hated Orlando and/ or gay people, they set it up for gun control, etc. People do this all the time with zero backing information other than "well we haven't been told otherwise so it must be true"



Just lol.

Thinking a SWAT member, one who started off as a police officer most likely, is capable of murder just to enforce a gun policy is just stupid.
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No, you're misinterpreted my statement. I'm saying you can't base someone's motives based on "knowing them". Yes I'm aware high stress situations can mess up people's memory but when piecing everything together nothing adds up and them there are conspiracy theories. Well when evidence coming out going against the official story it's only common sense to question the whole situation yet not to believe it.

Also your thinking on a individual level, all they do is following orders with a collective mindset. Yes any collective mindset can be used for bad. Nazis are demonize for what they did yet no one says "they're just following orders". There soldiers were humans with friends, family, and children but no one thinks of them that way.
 
CJNator said:
No, you're misinterpreted my statement. I'm saying you can't base someone's motives based on "knowing them". Yes I'm aware high stress situations can mess up people's memory but when piecing everything together nothing adds up and them there are conspiracy theories. Well when evidence coming out going against the official story it's only common sense to question the whole situation yet not to believe it.

Also your thinking on a individual level, all they do is following orders with a collective mindset. Yes any collective mindset can be used for bad. Nazis are demonize for what they did yet no one says "they're just following orders". There soldiers were humans with friends, family, and children but no one thinks of them that way.
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I work for government as someone who enforces laws, but I don't follow orders with a collective mindset and I don't respond to orders that aren't right as a "yes man". I think you need to step back and realize that government as a whole isn't one big conspiracy entity, and not everything that you don't understand is some collaborative plan against the people. What just happened with Hillary, the FBI, and the JD should outrage you more when it comes to government cover ups.
 
RegisterJr said:
I work for government as someone who enforces laws, but I don't follow orders with a collective mindset and I don't respond to orders that aren't right as a "yes man". I think you need to step back and realize that government as a whole isn't one big conspiracy entity, and not everything that you don't understand is some collaborative plan against the people. What just happened with Hillary, the FBI, and the JD should outrage you more when it comes to government cover ups.
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Well technically the US government itself is a conspiracy but that's too much to get into. I understand though, plenty of the government's failures are due to incompetents too. With Hillary I'm not suprised, I call it in 2014 she was going to be president. It only will get worse as people call for the socializing of America, economically and socially speaking.
 
CJNator said:
No, you're misinterpreted my statement. I'm saying you can't base someone's motives based on "knowing them". Yes I'm aware high stress situations can mess up people's memory but when piecing everything together nothing adds up and them there are conspiracy theories. Well when evidence coming out going against the official story it's only common sense to question the whole situation yet not to believe it.

Also your thinking on a individual level, all they do is following orders with a collective mindset. Yes any collective mindset can be used for bad. Nazis are demonize for what they did yet no one says "they're just following orders". There soldiers were humans with friends, family, and children but no one thinks of them that way.
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The FBI arn't Nazis, and there was a huge propaganda drive amidst poverty etc. Can ordinary people be convinced something is of the greater good? Absolutely. But to do this requires an immense effort where the speaker resonates powerfully with those he is talking to, and it requires a huge belittling of the people involved. Hitler spent YEARS delivering his message through every single media made available to him. As more people get on board with the idea, it snowballs and others catch on. It's harder to convince smaller groups, in secret, to commit mass murder when they are still exposed to outside influence that does not share your views. Only because of how World War One ended for Germany, did it set the stage for World War Two and it's subsequent horrors (they made the Germans out to be victims, not the Jews).

"It worked for the Nazis" is not a valid argument by any stretch.

Gun control lobbyists don't continually need to set up shootings to enforce their points - that happens on its own. It's not some conspiracy, it is the outcome of having so many guns, so accessible. Sometimes people do nasty things simply because they can, but it doesn't always mean there are other factors at play. Maybe there is, but I wouldn't call SWAT/ HRT members a ruthless killing machine incapable of conscious thought for a mere gun control policy
 
RegisterJr said:
I work for government as someone who enforces laws, but I don't follow orders with a collective mindset and I don't respond to orders that aren't right as a "yes man". I think you need to step back and realize that government as a whole isn't one big conspiracy entity, and not everything that you don't understand is some collaborative plan against the people. What just happened with Hillary, the FBI, and the JD should outrage you more when it comes to government cover ups.
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Also that's good that you don't have a collective mindset but the majority do and they are under control by the same politicians everyone hate.
 
Jiigzz said:
The FBI arn't Nazis, and there was a huge propaganda drive amidst poverty etc. Can ordinary people be convinced something is of the greater good? Absolutely. But to do this requires an immense effort where the speaker resonates powerfully with those he is talking to, and it requires a huge belittling of the people involved. Hitler spent YEARS delivering his message through every single media made available to him. As more people get on board with the idea, it snowballs and others catch on. It's harder to convince smaller groups, in secret, to commit mass murder when they are still exposed to outside influence that does not share your views. Only because of how World War One ended for Germany, did it set the stage for World War Two and it's subsequent horrors (they made the Germans out to be victims, not the Jews).

"It worked for the Nazis" is not a valid argument by any stretch.

Gun control lobbyists don't continually need to set up shootings to enforce their points - that happens on its own. It's not some conspiracy, it is the outcome of having so many guns, so accessible. Sometimes people do nasty things simply because they can, but it doesn't always mean there are other factors at play. Maybe there is, but I wouldn't call SWAT/ HRT members a ruthless killing machine incapable of conscious thought for a mere gun control policy
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You say this like the US government doesn't spew it's own propaganda and convince the masses to push there own agenda. Government isn't all incompetent yet it isn't all a conspiracy.

I not going to get all into it, it seems like you do have an attachment to law enforcement and I don't want to make it seem like I'm belittling them.
 
CJNator said:
You say this like the US government doesn't spew it's own propaganda and convince the masses to push there own agenda. Government isn't all incompetent yet it isn't all a conspiracy.

I not going to get all into it, it seems like you do have an attachment to law enforcement and I don't want to make it seem like I'm belittling them.
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You are accusing people of murder. That is belittling
 
Jiigzz said:
That's literally your opinion and speculation founded on nothing
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Well law enforcement and military breed a collective mind set, it's not a secret. There is no way they would want the majority to be critical thinkers, just drones. Why not be yes men when the have so many privileges and a good amount of power? They enforce unjust laws without questioning them, that's the biggest issue.
 
CJNator said:
Well law enforcement and military breed a collective mind set, it's not a secret. There is no way they would want the majority to be critical thinkers, just drones. Why not be yes men when the have so many privileges and a good amount of power? They enforce unjust laws without questioning them, that's the biggest issue.
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Dafuq.

Policemen here are very critical of things and are certainly not controlled 'by the man'. They enforce the law because that's their job - they are required to. But to say they dont question certain laws is stupid. All places, even workplaces, enforce rules that most staff dont necessarily agree to.

To think they don't have a mind of their own is shortsighted. Clearly you have never been involved in either
 
Jiigzz said:
On what information?
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Judge Napolitano's(idk how to spell it) statement, the video that recorded the sounds of hundreds of rounds going off at once, and anecdotal evidence even though that is perceived as 100% irrelevant. It's goes against the mainstream story I know yet both stories and all info must be perceive as relevant in order to be as unbiased as possible.

Plus you must ask yourself has this government done anything worse, which is a yes.
 
CJNator said:
Judge Napolitano's(idk how to spell it) statement, the video that recorded the sounds of hundreds of rounds going off at once, and anecdotal evidence even though that is perceived as 100% irrelevant. It's goes against the mainstream story I know yet both stories and all info must be perceive as relevant in order to be as unbiased as possible.

Plus you must ask yourself has this government done anything worse, which is a yes.
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So one guys statement and a video, vs those of survivors has you convinced SWAT team members are murders and yes men?

Was it truly 100's of rounds or did he exaggerate a little?

You don't think more people would have come forward with "it was the FBI and SWAT" by now?
 
Jiigzz said:
So one guys statement and a video, vs those of survivors has you convinced SWAT team members are murders and yes men?

Was it truly 100's of rounds or did he exaggerate a little?

You don't think more people would have come forward with "it was the FBI and SWAT" by now?
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The one guy is a judge and he said it on mainstream media so it's not something to just blow off, plus even you stated that there memory could be way off due to high stress levels, I can't imagine what I was like to heard all those rounds good off. Here is the video it's right in the beginning Invalid Link Removed . Plus no I don't think they would and I don't think the FBI would allow it.
 
CJNator said:
The one guy is a judge and he said it on mainstream media so it's not something to just blow off, plus even you stated that there memory could be way off due to high stress levels, I can't imagine what I was like to heard all those rounds good off. Here is the video it's right in the beginning Invalid Link Removed . Plus no I don't think they would and I don't think the FBI would allow it.
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So they allow one judge to speak, but kept 200 others quiet.

Yup, thats logical.

With access to silencers, you don't think they would have decided to use them if they had planned on massacring so many people?
 
Jiigzz said:
So they allow one judge to speak, but kept 200 others quiet.

Yup, thats logical.

With access to silencers, you don't think they would have decided to use them if they had planned on massacring so many people?
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Well think about it this way, no one will believe him nor do that even know the video exists so yea, people would most likely believe people there rather then John's statement, and I don't think they care since the majority isn't even aware of that video. People don't care anymore that it happened, it's all old news, these videos came out around the time people stopped posting things about it. If in fact the government ordered the swat members to do what they did then they won because not one is willing to question the main story and people just don't give a **** since it's not all over the news.

I'm not telling you to believe me, you choose what info is relevant to your perspective. Just don't throw any info just because it's outrageous, only if it gets debunked like how people didn't believe he sneaked an AR in the club.
 
CJNator said:
Well think about it this way, no one will believe him nor do that even know the video exists so yea, people would most likely believe people there rather then John's statement, and I don't think they care since the majority isn't even aware of that video. People don't care anymore that it happened, it's all old news, these videos came out around the time people stopped posting things about it. If in fact the government ordered the swat members to do what they did then they won because not one is willing to question the main story and people just don't give a **** since it's not all over the news.

I'm not telling you to believe me, you choose what info is relevant to your perspective. Just don't throw any info just because it's outrageous, only if it gets debunked like how people didn't believe he sneaked an AR in the club.
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Peopke can make any claim like he teleported into the club, but the onus is on them to prove their position, not on others to disprove it. What you're posting is nothing other than conjecture based on one video and one statement, and the video is just gun shots.

But what you're proposing is simply implausible - the FBI somehow shutting down 200 people? Cmon man. In this age of facebook, its not hard to make false accounts not linked to you in any way to leak information.

The onus is on you to prove the FBI are cold hearted, not on anyone else to disprove your conspiracy
 
Jiigzz said:
So they allow one judge to speak, but kept 200 others quiet.

Yup, thats logical.

With access to silencers, you don't think they would have decided to use them if they had planned on massacring so many people?
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Not weighing in or giving any opinions on what actually happened, but shots from 5.56 or similar caliber rifles are going to be loud, even with silencers. They aren't quite as effective in real life as they are in the movies.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Not weighing in or giving any opinions on what actually happened, but shots from 5.56 or similar caliber rifles are going to be loud, even with silencers. They aren't quite as effective in real life as they are in the movies.
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Definitely. But even a 30dB reduction is considerable and the camera likely wouldn't have caught it as clearly, if at all from that range.
 
Jiigzz said:
Peopke can make any claim like he teleported into the club, but the onus is on them to prove their position, not on others to disprove it. What you're posting is nothing other than conjecture based on one video and one statement, and the video is just gun shots.

But what you're proposing is simply implausible - the FBI somehow shutting down 200 people? Cmon man. In this age of facebook, its not hard to make false accounts not linked to you in any way to leak information.

The onus is on you to prove the FBI are cold hearted, not on anyone else to disprove your conspiracy
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The video was at the actual seen when they open fired, you can easily look up articles if you choose to. Like you said about the memory loss from all the stress, some may have blanked out most the parts with gun fire. Other people have claimed from 1 to 10 shooters which would fit in with the police shooting in the club. You must assume they are all golden heart if I think they are cold hearted. This wouldn't be the first time they have killed innocent people Invalid Link Removed

muscleupcrohn said:
Not weighing in or giving any opinions on what actually happened, but shots from 5.56 or similar caliber rifles are going to be loud, even with silencers. They aren't quite as effective in real life as they are in the movies.
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That's definitely true.
 
CJNator said:
The video was at the actual seen when they open fired, you can easily look up articles if you choose to. Like you said about the memory loss from all the stress, some may have blanked out most the parts with gun fire. Other people have claimed from 1 to 10 shooters which would fit in with the police shooting in the club. You must assume they are all golden heart if I think they are cold hearted. This wouldn't be the first time they have killed innocent people Invalid Link Removed



That's definitely true.
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I get that, what I mean is that the video is just noise, it doesnt show anything inside.

Sigh, yes because that's the same as what happened here..
 
Jiigzz said:
I get that, what I mean is that the video is just noise, it doesnt show anything inside.

Sigh, yes because that's the same as what happened here..
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I'm sure if they saw anyone with a phone recording them there wouldn't be a video, you know what I mean. Also you can't really deny all those shots going off in the club, calling it just noise is calling the video irrelevant which it isn't at all. Plus it would fall in line with this what happened here because the fbi lied saying it was a mass suicide mean while they actually just killed innocent people.
 
CJNator said:
I'm sure if they saw anyone with a phone recording them there wouldn't be a video, you know what I mean. Also you can't really deny all those shots going off in the club, calling it just noise is calling the video irrelevant which it isn't at all. Plus it would fall in line with this what happened here because the fbi lied saying it was a mass suicide mean while they actually just killed innocent people.
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No, I honestly dont. Its not hard to post videos anonymously without being intercepted first. What you are implying literally makes no sense.
 
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