Donald Trump running for president

Misfit28 said:
Also, if he had simply taken his father's inheritance and thrown it into an indexed fund he would be worth even more now. How does that prove his business acumen?

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I would think that was unpredictable. Stocks are a gamble. What if I put my life savings in Apple back in 1997? That doesn't mean the less I made since then is nothing to acknowledge. Your cant live with what ifs but rather what you have done.
 
Misfit28 said:
An addendum to this rant. How come the poor people selling their food stamps get so demonized, while rich bankers who screw the taxpayers out of tons of money never get penalized?
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That's not true, yeah people hate welfare fraudsters but that doesn't mean they don't care about wallsteet screw jobs.
 
Misfit28 said:
So, who are you saying is most to blame here? The recipients, or the fraudulent store owners? Seems to me that if the store owners didn't engage in the fraud, the recipients wouldn't be able to take part.

What is your suggested solution?
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the same could be said for illegal Mexicans, if employers didn't hire them they would not be here.
 
Misfit28 said:
I guess I just don't see why he has to be held to a higher standard than other presidents simply because he is black. Please explain?

I'm asking this because of your choice of words. You made it obvious, to me at least, that you are emphasizing his ethnicity. Just because he is black does not mean that other black people will always listen to him.
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it was a long debate...go back and read it, I am too lazy to rethink everything I posted all over again....
 
thebigt said:
the same could be said for illegal Mexicans, if employers didn't hire them they would not be here.
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True. And yet Americans are mad at poor Mexicans crossing the border looking for better paying work and aren't mad at the wealthy business owners that employ them and exploit their cheap labor.
 
youngandfree said:
Which part of the qualifications for POTUS listed in the Constitution say the person needs to have held any political office?

Hell people cry about how discriminatory the Constitution is as written, it never even listed the candidate has to be white or even a man, since women were property also back then.
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It clearly doesn't list it as a necessity, but it should. It's kind of ridiculous. Trump has no background or political experience.
 
Thiefcatcher said:
WOW, definitely not what I expected to see on my Facebook feed today.....
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Pure 100% ignorance. BRB I have wale and irish ancestory and I need to burn some flags to prove how American I am. If you aren't willing to burn the flag of wherever your family originally came from (it's cool if you're native american) then you don't love the country and you don't want to be part of it.
 
Geoforce said:
Pure 100% ignorance. BRB I have wale and irish ancestory and I need to burn some flags to prove how American I am. If you aren't willing to burn the flag of wherever your family originally came from (it's cool if you're native american) then you don't love the country and you don't want to be part of it.
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Looks like you missed the point of their video......
 
Something more to think about when hitting pro-minimum wage increase candidates.

Not only are the food prices going to go up to make up for the costs but humans are being replaced by robots, people will lose jobs and this is the trend that will happen everywhere.

Wendy’s Replacing Workers With Kiosks In Response to ‘Fight For $15’

Wendy's announcement leads to fully robotic restaurants

Invalid Link Removed -
May 13, 2016

Invalid Link Removed

In response to recent minimum wage hikes, Wendy’s is now replacing fast food workers with robots.

 The fast food chain announced it will start automating all of its restaurants by installing self-serve kiosks in 6,000 locations by the end of the year.

Although Invalid Link Removed, Wendy’s announcement is the largest roll-out to date and will likely spark a trend leading to fully robotic restaurants.

“Wendy's President Todd Penegor said it will be up to franchisees to decide whether or not to adopt the kiosks in their stores, noting that many franchise locations have had to raise prices to offset wage increases,” Slashdot Invalid Link Removed. “California's decision to gradually raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2022 will impact Wendy's 258 restaurants, all of which are franchise-operated.”

“About 75% of 200-plus Wendy's restaurants are run by franchisees in New York, a state that is also on its way to $15.”

It’s simple economics: when labor costs are too high to stay in business, owners will look for alternatives – including burger flipping robots.

One such robot, developed by the San Francisco start-up Momentum Machines, can replicate a fast food worker by shaping burger patties from ground meat, grilling them, adding the specified amount of ingredients, and serving them to customers on a conveyor belt.

Many fast food chains may be forced to outsource jobs to these machines because they cannot afford to stay in business paying workers $15 an hour, given the number of restaurants that have already closed after Seattle enacted such a minimum wage.

“The businesses that couldn’t afford it either shut down or laid off workers, and the businesses that could afford it simply shifted some money around by eliminating benefits and putting those dollars toward wages,” Joshua Krause of the Daily Steeple reported. “What the supporters of a higher minimum wage just don’t get, is that it hurts poor unskilled workers ey around by eliminating benefits and putting those dollars toward wages,” Joshua Krause of the Daily Steeple reported. “What the supporters of a higher minimum wage just don’t get, is that it hurts poor unskilled workers the most.”
 
We couldn't have the CEOs make less money now, could we? 7 million in 2014 just isn't enough.

I wonder how many regular workers it would take to equal even one half of that salary?

Corporate greed!

Salaries too high to stay in business. Horse sh!t.

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Misfit28 said:
We couldn't have the CEOs make less money now, could we? 7 million in 2014 just isn't enough.

I wonder how many regular workers it would take to equal even one half of that salary?

Corporate greed!

Salaries too high to stay in business. Horse sh!t.

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There is alot of competition to get the best CEO's so the price goes up. Its only fair that the best talent can be rewarded for whatever the market offers them.

Ive seen stuff as you posted, its really silly to keep minimum wage up with inflation. Its an endless cycle and only drives the cost of everything up, you shoot yourself in the foot.

The issue is inflation, not minimum wage. The heat should go onto auditing and removing the Federal Reserve from power and return to the only legal Constitutional currency which is gold and silver.
 
ax1 said:
There is alot of competition to get the best CEO's so the price goes up.

Ive seen stuff as you posted, its really silly to keep minimum wage up with inflation. Its an endless cycle and only drives the cost of everything up, you shoot yourself in the foot.

The issue is inflation not minimum wage. The heat should go onto auditing and removing the Federal Reserve from power and return to the only legal Constitutional currency which is gold and silver.
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My point is who really NEEDS a salary as big as these CEOs? I mean damn.

Same goes for sports stars, entertainment stars, etc. There's a point where it just plain old becomes greed.
 
Misfit28 said:
My point is who really NEEDS a salary as big as these CEOs? I mean damn.

Same goes for sports stars, entertainment stars, etc. There's a point where it just plain old becomes greed.
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Well, first off big brother steals money from people so they wouldnt be getting as much as the salary states.

If you dont want it, Ill take it. Ill take billions. Whats wrong with that?

If you want real change you need green. Alot of athletes and celebrities do good work and charity which would be impossible without green. If you create a product that people want to buy into it and purchase that generates trillions, its nobodies business what the cap needs to be on that. Its tyrannical to cap salary. If you want to do that we are going to lose all our best people to other countries that is willing to buy talent. There are consequences to this.
 
ax1 said:
Something more to think about when hitting pro-minimum wage increase candidates.

Not only are the food prices going to go up to make up for the costs but humans are being replaced by robots, people will lose jobs and this is the trend that will happen everywhere.

Wendy’s Replacing Workers With Kiosks In Response to ‘Fight For $15’

Wendy's announcement leads to fully robotic restaurants

Invalid Link Removed -
May 13, 2016

Invalid Link Removed

In response to recent minimum wage hikes, Wendy’s is now replacing fast food workers with robots.

 The fast food chain announced it will start automating all of its restaurants by installing self-serve kiosks in 6,000 locations by the end of the year.

Although Invalid Link Removed, Wendy’s announcement is the largest roll-out to date and will likely spark a trend leading to fully robotic restaurants.

“Wendy's President Todd Penegor said it will be up to franchisees to decide whether or not to adopt the kiosks in their stores, noting that many franchise locations have had to raise prices to offset wage increases,” Slashdot Invalid Link Removed. “California's decision to gradually raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2022 will impact Wendy's 258 restaurants, all of which are franchise-operated.”

“About 75% of 200-plus Wendy's restaurants are run by franchisees in New York, a state that is also on its way to $15.”

It’s simple economics: when labor costs are too high to stay in business, owners will look for alternatives – including burger flipping robots.

One such robot, developed by the San Francisco start-up Momentum Machines, can replicate a fast food worker by shaping burger patties from ground meat, grilling them, adding the specified amount of ingredients, and serving them to customers on a conveyor belt.

Many fast food chains may be forced to outsource jobs to these machines because they cannot afford to stay in business paying workers $15 an hour, given the number of restaurants that have already closed after Seattle enacted such a minimum wage.

“The businesses that couldn’t afford it either shut down or laid off workers, and the businesses that could afford it simply shifted some money around by eliminating benefits and putting those dollars toward wages,” Joshua Krause of the Daily Steeple reported. “What the supporters of a higher minimum wage just don’t get, is that it hurts poor unskilled workers ey around by eliminating benefits and putting those dollars toward wages,” Joshua Krause of the Daily Steeple reported. “What the supporters of a higher minimum wage just don’t get, is that it hurts poor unskilled workers the most.”
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this is a joke...I have worked in a factory that utilized robotics, you have to have a human eye keeping watch over things, even the slightest mishap could shut things down for hours if not caught right away....lets say the patties come in boxes and are stacked, if one of those boxes are skewed just a little the robotic arm will hit it and knock over an entire layer...who is going to refill the condiment containers? who is going to take drink cups out of boxes...who is going to take out the trash....

and when there is an error, which I am certain there will be they will have to bring in a IT to re-program, and this aint gonna be cheap at 9pm.

and then we have malcontent ex-employees some of whom are apt to commit vandalism!!!!

this is a recipe for disaster.
 
thebigt said:
this is a joke...I have worked in a factory that utilized robotics, you have to have a human eye keeping watch over things, even the slightest mishap could shut things down for hours if not caught right away....lets say the patties come in boxes and are stacked, if one of those boxes are skewed just a little the robotic arm will hit it and knock over an entire layer...who is going to refill the condiment containers? who is going to take drink cups out of boxes...who is going to take out the trash....

and when there is an error, which I am certain there will be they will have to bring in a IT to re-program, and this aint gonna be cheap at 9pm.

and then we have malcontent ex-employees some of whom are apt to commit vandalism!!!!

this is a recipe for disaster.
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They arent replacing humans, at least not yet. They are simply going to use less humans to cut costs. The watchful eye will still be there....for a while.

Artificial intelligence will reach astronomical levels in the next 20 years. The original creators of Siri just came out with a new voice assistant that self codes itself for example.

Me? I dont like the way technology is heading, we are losing our humanity.
 
halfahardon said:
I am
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Politicians aren't. Trump didn't rise to popularity saying that we have to target big businesses and most likely predominantly wealthy white people to keep them from hiring illegals. He didn't say we need to throw business owners in jail who exploit cheap labor. He said "they" are sending in bad people. We have to build a wall to keep "them" out. It's completely ignoring the simple fact that without businesses willing to hire illegals people would have no reason to come over.

But many on the far right don't want to hear that. It's always about these damn Mexicans running over taking all our jobs. And it's more than a little race driven. And here in conservative as it comes Kansas Republicans stoke those fears and then say but wait don't take the illegals away!

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ax1 said:
They arent replacing humans, at least not yet. They are simply going to use less humans to cut costs. The watchful eye will still be there....for a while.

Artificial intelligence will reach astronomical levels in the next 20 years. The original creators of Siri just came out with a new voice assistant that self codes itself for example.

Me? I dont like the way technology is heading, we are losing our humanity.
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In my opinion, it would be a boon. Imagine how many lives could be saved and injuries prevented?

It could leave humans free to pursue more creative and intellectual endeavors to advance humankind.
 
Misfit28 said:
In my opinion, it would be a boon. Imagine how many lives could be saved and injuries prevented?

It could leave humans free to pursue more creative and intellectual endeavors to advance humankind.
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Problem is, we breed like rabbits (or more like a virus), and much of our population is not very technical, intellectual nor creative. But I do somewhat agree with what you're saying.
 
Misfit28 said:
In my opinion, it would be a boon. Imagine how many lives could be saved and injuries prevented?

It could leave humans free to pursue more creative and intellectual endeavors to advance humankind.
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Absolutely, but this depends on who's hands its on. As you can see tech is being used against us secretly.
 
ax1 said:
They arent replacing humans, at least not yet. They are simply going to use less humans to cut costs. The watchful eye will still be there....for a while.

Artificial intelligence will reach astronomical levels in the next 20 years. The original creators of Siri just came out with a new voice assistant that self codes itself for example.

Me? I dont like the way technology is heading, we are losing our humanity.
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CUT COSTS????

I don't know what the mark up is on a hamburger, but it seems to me they would have to sell a whole lot to recover their initial investment!!!

I bet they are looking at a minimum of 10 years to see a return on their investment, and 10 years can be a lifetime in todays world of business!!!

if anything look for the price of Wendy's hamburgers to go up!!!
 
Geoforce said:
Politicians aren't. Trump didn't rise to popularity saying that we have to target big businesses and most likely predominantly wealthy white people to keep them from hiring illegals. He didn't say we need to throw business owners in jail who exploit cheap labor. He said "they" are sending in bad people. We have to build a wall to keep "them" out. It's completely ignoring the simple fact that without businesses willing to hire illegals people would have no reason to come over.

But many on the far right don't want to hear that. It's always about these damn Mexicans running over taking all our jobs. And it's more than a little race driven. And here in conservative as it comes Kansas Republicans stoke those fears and then say but wait don't take the illegals away!

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you are forgetting a major point...the perception of many who support trump is political correctness has run amok.

you can agree or disagree, but perception is reality for many.
 
Misfit28 said:
In my opinion, it would be a boon. Imagine how many lives could be saved and injuries prevented?

It could leave humans free to pursue more creative and intellectual endeavors to advance humankind.
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If driver-less cars are done right we can remove one of the riskiest things we do every day right there. Don't get me wrong I would miss driving, but I'm scared out of my mind in Kansas City. It's not teens texting and driving (though they do it) it's middle aged adults. Swerving like drunks and holding their phones up to their faces. I'm 32 and WAY more scared of driving than I was as a teen despite being twice as confident in my driving skills.

It doesn't matter how good you drive when everyone else is distracted.
 
thebigt said:
you are forgetting a major point...the perception of many who support trump is political correctness has run amok.

you can agree or disagree, but perception is reality for many.
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I can completely agree with PC going too far, but that also doesn't mean the opposite (speaking whatever you want and not giving a ****) is an improvement. Our politicians should be measured, they should be careful. These are leadership positions and words matter. Being crass and an ******* is fine if we're on a construction site as buddies. It's not when you're trying to lead and inspire millions of people. Free speech is one thing. Being a public figure and treating people like garbage is another.

Anyways the PC part of it wasn't my point. It was exactly who he (and other politicians) go after in the illegal immigrant debate.

Edit: You can't say a hole on here? lol.
 
thebigt said:
CUT COSTS????

I don't know what the mark up is on a hamburger, but it seems to me they would have to sell a whole lot to recover their initial investment!!!

I bet they are looking at a minimum of 10 years to see a return on their investment, and 10 years can be a lifetime in todays world of business!!!

if anything look for the price of Wendy's hamburgers to go up!!!
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We would have to really see the numbers to really know if it justifies the cost to replace several $15 workers with tech. Keep in mind too, the employer pays extra costs, half the social security bill, on site insurance, I think Obamacare has an impact. So lets guess $25/hr per worker and thats $48,000 each and replace 8 workers covering multiple shifts we are now at a savings of $384,000 a year. I 10 years we have $3,840,000 in a 10 year period which Im pretty sure its dramatically higher than the cost to install the tech.

Then there is 258 Wendy's in California alone, the California chain in all will save $990,720,000, almost a billion dollars in 10 years.

Keep in mind in that 10 year frame, inflation issues unchecked the savings are even higher as minimum wage may be $20/hr by then since $15 wont be a livable wage anymore.
 
Misfit28 said:
In my opinion, it would be a boon. Imagine how many lives could be saved and injuries prevented?

It could leave humans free to pursue more creative and intellectual endeavors to advance humankind.
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Einstein/jobs/gates/hawking/Edison/markoni/tesla were[are]intellectuals...the rest of us become adept at using their creations, but to be honest the majority of humankind just isn't very creative.

anyone have any studies on IQ's...I would be curious how the IQ of todays average person compares with that of an average person in the 50's?
 
ax1 said:
We would have to really see the numbers to really know if it justifies the cost to replace several $15 workers with tech. Keep in mind too, the employer pays extra costs, half the social security bill, on site insurance, I think Obamacare has an impact. So lets guess $25/hr per worker and thats $48,000 each and replace 8 workers covering multiple shifts we are now at a savings of $384,000 a year. I 10 years we have $3,840,000 in a 10 year period which Im pretty sure its dramatically higher than the cost to install the tech.

Then there is 258 Wendy's in California alone, the California chain in all will save $990,720,000, almost a billion dollars in 10 years.

Keep in mind in that 10 year frame, inflation issues unchecked the savings are even higher as minimum wage may be $20/hr by then since $15 wont be a livable wage anymore.
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you are leaving out the cost of maintaining robotics...plus the cost of installing 258 automated stores, this is going to be costly-especially if they have to remodel. the electricity cost of running 1 store alone would probably pay salary of 1 employee.
 
thebigt said:
Einstein/jobs/gates/hawking/Edison/markoni/tesla were[are]intellectuals...the rest of us become adept at using their creations, but to be honest the majority of humankind just isn't very creative.

anyone have any studies on IQ's...I would be curious how the IQ of todays average person compares with that of an average person in the 50's?
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Perhaps people are too occupied with working just to live to be creative :)
 
thebigt said:
anyone have any studies on IQ's...I would be curious how the IQ of todays average person compares with that of an average person in the 50's?
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Interesting question. Seeing my son almost exclusively playing video games, I bet today's IQ is at a fresh- or saltwater fish level.
 
Geoforce said:
I can completely agree with PC going too far, but that also doesn't mean the opposite (speaking whatever you want and not giving a ****) is an improvement. Our politicians should be measured, they should be careful. These are leadership positions and words matter. Being crass and an ******* is fine if we're on a construction site as buddies. It's not when you're trying to lead and inspire millions of people. Free speech is one thing. Being a public figure and treating people like garbage is another.

Anyways the PC part of it wasn't my point. It was exactly who he (and other politicians) go after in the illegal immigrant debate.

Edit: You can't say a hole on here? lol.
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if you are going to ask the question of why trump is so popular PC is the point...

one thing I have noticed, you deal in statistics, the majority of americans deal in perceptions. a person like you who deals in statistics can adapt to changes as statistics change, it is much harder to change a persons perception-and perception is reality for those people!!!
 
thebigt said:
you are leaving out the cost of maintaining robotics...plus the cost of installing 258 automated stores, this is going to be costly-especially if they have to remodel. the electricity cost of running 1 store alone would probably pay salary of 1 employee.
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You are right we need all the numbers.

They are figuring this all out and McDonalds is already testing this stuff so we will see.

It certainly has some concerns on my mind.
 
ax1 said:
You are right we need all the numbers.

They are figuring this all out and McDonalds is already testing this stuff so we will see.

It certainly has some concerns on my mind.
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imo, they either all do it and raise the price of fast food multilaterally, or else the price of fast food at the ones who do this unilaterally is going to put their prices well above the median price. If a megaconglomerate like macdonalds did this, I could see smaller chains really cutting into their sales.
 
I already think their crap is overpriced for what you get, so if they raise their prices it's even more incentive for me not to eat out lol.
 
Misfit28 said:
I already think their crap is overpriced for what you get, so if they raise their prices it's even more incentive for me not to eat out lol.
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My McDonald salads both have gotten smaller over the years and more expensive. First the chicken got smaller, and now they put only half the lettuce they used to.

Wendy's has the best salads right now, one in my local area consistently packs it up to the limit.

BK just changed their salads and is a good improvement.
 
thebigt said:
imo, they either all do it and raise the price of fast food multilaterally, or else the price of fast food at the ones who do this unilaterally is going to put their prices well above the median price. If a megaconglomerate like macdonalds did this, I could see smaller chains really cutting into their sales.
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It could offer new chains a chance to rise up, ones that offer traditional service with humans, lol sounds ridiculous but true.
 
thebigt said:
if you are going to ask the question of why trump is so popular PC is the point...

one thing I have noticed, you deal in statistics, the majority of americans deal in perceptions. a person like you who deals in statistics can adapt to changes as statistics change, it is much harder to change a persons perception-and perception is reality for those people!!!
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I think that is part of it. I think a bigger part is he says stuff and people believe him without questioning it. I can see the appeal behind Trump if he was what he says he is, but he isn't.

"He's an outsider!": No he's not. He's a wealthy connected individual who has spent his career schmoozing politicians for personal gain. Simply because he isn't a governor doesn't make him an outsider. You're probably an outsider. Anyone that knows that many politicians and Wall Street people is not even close to an outsider.

"He will get rid of bad politicians!": No he won't. He doesn't have the power to do that. We keep electing the same people in power in the same parties.

"He won't be beholden to any special interests!:" Ah yes, the self-funding myth. How's that working out right now? In order to run for President he's now going to kiss all necessary rings of those on the right side. He's going to take all sorts of money and run all sorts of horrible ads.

"He says whatever he wants!": Yeah. Including saying tons of things completely counter to what he said not that long ago. Before he realized you can con the electorate and they will believe ANYTHING you say no matter how contrary it is to your past. He has a history of supporting liberal causes and in the past few weeks is now backtracking on almost everything he said in the primaries.

If Trump actually was any of these things I may throw support behind him. But he's not. He has wacko anti-free market ideas that have historically failed like tariffs. He has already flip flopped tons. No one has any idea what he actually thinks, but he will say the right words to the audience he is speaking to. Like every politician ever.

The lesser of two evils (which is a HORRIBLE reason to vote for someone) is the only thing I could see. Trump is doing everything every other politician does except he isn't afraid to bully and be nasty out loud. Arguing on twitter isn't a presidential characteristic and neither is being short tempered and unpredictable.
 
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