Donald Trump running for president

Geoforce said:
If they are wealthy why would they be in the hood? Wouldn't they use all that sweet welfare cash to find better dwellings. If you have to go to impoverished places to find examples of people getting wealthy from welfare you've already lost my man.

This idea that most welfare people are somehow better off than most working Americans isn't backed up by anything rational. Fraud undoubtedly exists, but let's not blow the problem out of proportion and act like most nice cars you see are because someone scammed welfare.
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Not when they get section 8 rent for $50/month.

I never said they were better off than me. I'm saying she shouldn't be on an IPhone plus and driving a Lexus while using an EBT card.
 
ax1 said:
Im telling you what happened, I used to go to that gas station. It was in my paper all detailed.

Ive met plenty of people in my lifetime that were on probation and still did drugs and passed the test. Cocaine and certain other drugs leaves your system pretty fast too. And yes, I know alot of people on welfare that do drugs and drink. Does the government judge drinkers btw?
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A lot of PEOPLE do drugs and drink. Why aren't you calling the police on all these known cases of fraud?

The simple fact of the matter is that when tested no statistical difference is seen in the drug use of those on welfare vs. those not on. And considering people on welfare usually tend to be more poorly educated I'm not really buying the whole they are so good at getting around it argument.

States have tried drug testing welfare recipients and it hasn't been worth their trouble. That is a statistical fact, not anecdotal.
 
Geoforce said:
A lot of PEOPLE do drugs and drink. Why aren't you calling the police on all these known cases of fraud?

The simple fact of the matter is that when tested no statistical difference is seen in the drug use of those on welfare vs. those not on. And considering people on welfare usually tend to be more poorly educated I'm not really buying the whole they are so good at getting around it argument.

States have tried drug testing welfare recipients and it hasn't been worth their trouble. That is a statistical fact, not anecdotal.
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I never said they all do drugs, Im just telling you what the locals in that community were doing.
 
youngandfree said:
Not when they get section 8 rent for $50/month.

I never said they were better off than me. I'm saying she shouldn't be on an IPhone plus and driving a Lexus while using an EBT card.
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What phone should she have? How do you know the Lexus was hers? Do you think this is representative of welfare on the whole? Wouldn't you admit your story forces you to make a ton of assumptions about her?

Why would people with lots of money stay in poor housing? If they have so much off welfare they would move. Most government housing isn't known for being real nice.
 
Geoforce said:
What phone should she have? How do you know the Lexus was hers? Do you think this is representative of welfare on the whole?

Why would people with lots of money stay in poor housing? If they have so much off welfare they would move. Most government housing isn't known for being real nice.
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His view of the world isn't "skewed", didn't you know? ;)
 
ax1 said:
I never said they all do drugs, Im just telling you what the locals in that community were doing.
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And I'm telling you that statistical evidence would say this is the exception and not the rule. I'm not going to argue that some welfare people don't use drugs, because generalizing always leads to bad conclusions.

The vast majority of welfare recipients are lazy drug users being one of them. Of course no one can actually back that up statistically either. Sure makes a lot of people feel good though.

FWIW I don't consider myself liberal at all. I think we've had these discussions before :)
 
Geoforce said:
And I'm telling you that statistical evidence would say this is the exception and not the rule.
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Thats fine. Its really not my business if people do drugs and drinking, my business is that Im being taxed for this and I support the push to empower the individual rather than the commune.
 
ax1 said:
Thats fine. Its really not my business if people do drugs and drinking, my business is that Im being taxed for this and I support the push to empower the individual rather than the commune.
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I can support that. The reality is statistically much more of your tax money is going to the building of the F-35 than people who are abusing welfare.

I bring up the military because often you will find people who rail against the government and welfare leeches, but want to invade every country under the sun and don't think any fraud happens in the Pentagon.

Of course this must mean I hate America or something :ugh1:
 
Geoforce said:
Essentially look to the past when it helps your argument and take your word it won't happen again? With 0 child labor laws and 0 gov't assistance what happens to the 7 year old who's parents pass away? He's going to work before starve? And big business has a real good track record with not exploiting cheap labor right?
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I never called for anarchy. What makes you think I dont support child labor and general labor laws or any law for the matter?
 
Geoforce said:
What phone should she have? How do you know the Lexus was hers? Do you think this is representative of welfare on the whole? Wouldn't you admit your story forces you to make a ton of assumptions about her?

Why would people with lots of money stay in poor housing? If they have so much off welfare they would move. Most government housing isn't known for being real nice.
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Apparently you are making as much assumption as to my experiences and my life experiences. If you don't think she's a legit welfare lady because she carries a $600 cell phone and drives a Lexus, then she must be using someone else's card, which furthers the point.
 
I just don't understand why there's such poverty and turmoil when Misfit and Gutterpump and Geoforce has it all figured out and are the only ones that know and understand reality. It rather astonishing to me.
 
Geoforce said:
I can support that. The reality is statistically much more of your tax money is going to the building of the F-35 than people who are abusing welfare.

I bring up the military because often you will find people who rail against the government and welfare leeches, but want to invade every country under the sun and don't think any fraud happens in the Pentagon.

Of course this must mean I hate America or something :ugh1:
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My priority isnt welfare just to be clear, or healthcare etc....we are within the topic so I may appear to come across that way.

My priority is to audit and end the Fed, end ALL the wars, including wars that arent called wars and also ending the war on terror (plus drugs.) Also we need to prioritize ending the lobby in Washington. Also, I would tap into all that oil in Montana that will not only give us oil until about 2050 but also totally eliminate the 20 trillion deficit.

I bet if we clear that up and simply have a better and simple flat tax system the trillions we save I probably would think much about welfare people too much. Welfare is not the problem, government is.
 
Geoforce said:
What phone should she have? How do you know the Lexus was hers? Do you think this is representative of welfare on the whole? Wouldn't you admit your story forces you to make a ton of assumptions about her?

Why would people with lots of money stay in poor housing? If they have so much off welfare they would move. Most government housing isn't known for being real nice.
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the problem in my opinion lies in the fact that drug use and sale, and crime in general [including murder] is tolerated in welfare communities much more than in the wealthier communities. this is due to 2 factors, the 1st being fear-the 2nd being mistrust and actual hatred of police-most good people in drug infested welfare communities hate the crime in their community, but they detest the police even more.

I grew up in a poor neighborhood 3 blocks from the biggest 'project' in Indianapolis, a place that used to be called brick city. this is how it was in the 70's and it is even moreso that way now.
 
Geoforce said:
I bring up the military because often you will find people who rail against the government and welfare leeches, but want to invade every country under the sun and don't think any fraud happens in the Pentagon.
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Many small government people such as myself who "rail against the government and welfare leeches" are VERY anti-war, support non-interventionist policies and want to dismantle the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about. Im more anti war than anyone on this forum.
 
thebigt said:
the problem in my opinion lies in the fact that drug use and sale, and crime in general [including murder] is tolerated in welfare communities much more than in the wealthier communities. this is due to 2 factors, the 1st being fear-the 2nd being mistrust and actual hatred of police-most good people in drug infested welfare communities hate the crime in their community, but they detest the police even more.

I grew up in a poor neighborhood 3 blocks from the biggest 'project' in Indianapolis, a place that used to be called brick city. this is how it was in the 70's and it is even moreso that way now.
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This is almost undoubtedly less about it being tolerated and more about being prevalent in those communities because of economics. Wealthier neighborhoods of course are going to have less crime and drug use than poorer neighborhoods. You don't "need" to turn to crime and drugs when you have a great everything (yes I know wealthy people can commit crime and do drugs but their is a sociological reason why they do it less).
 
ax1 said:
Running from your problems is an act of coward, so sorry no Africa for me. Im here to defend the human rights of Americans.
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What human rights do you think we don't have? We live in the greatest time in the history of the world. We have more abundance, more opportunity, less conflict, more ease, more education, than at any other time in the history of the world. We will live longer than any other humans ever and have more disposable income than any other time in the history of the world. We are working less than any other time before. Hell, I bet half the people in this thread have posted from work. My dad was FORCED to fight in a war in a foreign location. It is HIGHLY likely that will never happen again in the history of this country.

Go to ANY time point in history and they would all marvel at how good we have it.

The VAST majority of your decisions in your life are made by you as an individual and not the government. Where your kids go to school, where you live, what car you drive, what your occupation is, where you lift, what you do with your free time, what you watch on netflix, what forums you spend your time on, who you see in concert, what baseball games you watch, etc. All your decision.
 
youngandfree said:
I just don't understand why there's such poverty and turmoil when Misfit and Gutterpump and Geoforce has it all figured out and are the only ones that know and understand reality. It rather astonishing to me.
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:17: Make an argument but don't cry if someone comes to a different conclusion than you. I haven't said anything of the sort. If anything I'm attempting to argue against what seems to be accepted truths regarding vastly complicated ideas where generalizations lead to inaccuracies.
 
Geoforce said:
This is almost undoubtedly less about it being tolerated and more about being prevalent in those communities because of economics. Wealthier neighborhoods of course are going to have less crime and drug use than poorer neighborhoods. You don't "need" to turn to crime and drugs when you have a great everything (yes I know wealthy people can commit crime and do drugs but their is a sociological reason why they do it less).
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you are over thinking this. the availability is more in welfare communities, since it is more tolerated. in wealthier communities people are goin to call police. I know that a lot of us white guys used to go to brick city to cop drugs-if a white guy even in a poor community were openly selling drugs the white folks wouldn't hesitate to call police. this isn't statistic-this is fact....in order to solve the problem we need to change the black culture of mistrust even hatred of the police.

I thought Obama would address this issue, but he has made things even worse!!! sure there are bad cops doing bad things, but in order for their to be advances in the black community they are going to have to be taught to trust the police.
 
thebigt said:
you are over thinking this. the availability is more in welfare communities, since it is more tolerated. in wealthier communities people are goin to call police. I know that a lot of us white guys used to go to brick city to cop drugs-if a white guy even in a poor community were openly selling drugs the white folks wouldn't hesitate to call police. this isn't statistic-this is fact....in order to solve the problem we need to change the black culture of mistrust even hatred of the police.

I thought Obama would address this issue, but he has made things even worse!!! sure there are bad cops doing bad things, but in order for their to be advances in the black community they are going to have to be taught to trust the police.
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People in wealthier communities aren't going to see it as often because it is done less. Drug use sticks out more there. People up to no good does as well. Areas of high poverty are going to see more crime and more drug use. It is going to be accepted more as what people do. Wealthy people are going to soccer practice, taking vacations, going to the mall. Poor people are looking for escapes.

It's not really a black white thing either. I live in a county that is over 98% white, largely religious and conservative as the day is long according to voting habits. We have huge drug problems largely meth, but also other drugs. Most of the rural areas houses are ran down. They may trust the police, but the police don't come often and don't do much there. The areas don't have the budget for it. You've got to pay for the police through taxes after all :)

I don't think our President has much to do with a lot of these issues. They aren't new. You had people doing drugs in huge amounts in the 80's. Drug use in teens is as low as it has been in a long time.
 
Geoforce said:
If they are wealthy why would they be in the hood? Wouldn't they use all that sweet welfare cash to find better dwellings. If you have to go to impoverished places to find examples of people getting wealthy from welfare you've already lost my man.
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You apparently know more about my life than I do. You said my life experiences are BS.
 
thebigt said:
you are over thinking this. the availability is more in welfare communities, since it is more tolerated. in wealthier communities people are goin to call police. I know that a lot of us white guys used to go to brick city to cop drugs-if a white guy even in a poor community were openly selling drugs the white folks wouldn't hesitate to call police. this isn't statistic-this is fact....in order to solve the problem we need to change the black culture of mistrust even hatred of the police.

I thought Obama would address this issue, but he has made things even worse!!! sure there are bad cops doing bad things, but in order for their to be advances in the black community they are going to have to be taught to trust the police.
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Wealthy folks don't buy their drugs on the street, lol.
 
Misfit28 said:
Yeah, but using the life experiences of one or two people and generalizing it to characterize an entire population is what leads to problems.
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Pretty much this. What you saw one time in a store is probably a pretty bad thing to extrapolate to a nation of over 300 million people.

We wouldn't want me assuming all baptists are serial killers simply because Dennis Rader was one.
 
Geoforce said:
What human rights do you think we don't have? We live in the greatest time in the history of the world. We have more abundance, more opportunity, less conflict, more ease, more education, than at any other time in the history of the world. We will live longer than any other humans ever and have more disposable income than any other time in the history of the world. We are working less than any other time before. Hell, I bet half the people in this thread have posted from work. My dad was FORCED to fight in a war in a foreign location. It is HIGHLY likely that will never happen again in the history of this country.

Go to ANY time point in history and they would all marvel at how good we have it.

The VAST majority of your decisions in your life are made by you as an individual and not the government. Where your kids go to school, where you live, what car you drive, what your occupation is, where you lift, what you do with your free time, what you watch on netflix, what forums you spend your time on, who you see in concert, what baseball games you watch, etc. All your decision.
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Our freedoms and liberties have been slowly taken away.

Being in a position of comfort is the best time to stand up and defend for your rights. Waiting until the ship starts to sink is bad strategy and unpatriotic imo. It's much easier to defend for your rights you already have rather than trying to get it back.
 
No you flat said my experience didn't happen. Do you want me to tell all the examples I have personally witnwssed? Nope because then you'll have to call them all BS too.

You haven't read every page of this thread but Misfit and Gutterpump both make a point to let us know we are wrong and they are right. That's fine, but you jumped on board pretty quick. At least I know who to look to.
 
ax1 said:
Our freedoms and liberties have been slowly taken away.

Being in a position of comfort is the best time to stand up and defend for your rights. Waiting until the ship starts to sink is bad strategy and unpatriotic imo.
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What freedoms and liberties are being taken away? I listed that you can pretty much make your own decisions in most of your life. Sure you can't go 90 in certain areas and you can't smoke in our library anymore, but are we really acting like this is the erosion of our freedom?

How did that "extra" freedom work out in the past? I'm sure people during the Great Depression weren't crying about more civil liberties....they wanted to eat. Blacks, womens, gays, I don't think any of them would like to go to the past and compare treatment to 2016.

Be specific and I may be inclined to agree with you. Sweeping platitudes makes you sound like a politician.
 
youngandfree said:
No you flat said my experience didn't happen. Do you want me to tell all the examples I have personally witnwssed? Nope because then you'll have to call them all BS too.

You haven't read every page of this thread but Misfit and Gutterpump both make a point to let us know we are wrong and they are right. That's fine, but you jumped on board pretty quick. At least I know who to look to.
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Ok, I apologize. Your experience did happen, but is largely worthless because you no zero details. You saw someone holding a nice phone and getting into a nice car use an EBT card. You have no idea if she owned the phone, the car, the card, whatever.

So you have an anecdote, but with so many holes in it that sharing it doesn't produce any knowledge towards the discussion.
 
ax1 said:
I'll explain soon Geoforce I'm not on a PC.
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Sounds good. I hate getting sucked into these things and I know we've played this game before. I can definitely jump on board with our government has grown too large and we need to make cuts in certain areas. I'm all for stamping out waste and fraud. I think consistency should matter and I don't think either of the two presidential candidates have a lick of it and I won't be voting for either. I am shocked at all the people who will take Donald Trump at his word when historically he has said things completely different from what he's saying now.

I mean the man was essentially a known liberal saying liberal things and supporting liberal causes. Then magically he ran for President and fed the sweet red meat to people they so desperately wanted to hear. It's even more odd when Republicans complained about Dems eating up Obama's every word and promises when they in turn just did the same thing. They complained about Obama being a media star while Trump spends his days on Twitter firing insults at everyone.

And now somehow the Republicans supposedly the small government conservative party ran a guy who explicitly said he will borrow more money and potentially default on it if need be.

Shocking really. I'll probably stay at home on election day or vote third party.
 
Pat McAfee? Im all for it
 
Geoforce said:
Sounds good. I hate getting sucked into these things and I know we've played this game before. I can definitely jump on board with our government has grown too large and we need to make cuts in certain areas. I'm all for stamping out waste and fraud. I think consistency should matter and I don't think either of the two presidential candidates have a lick of it and I won't be voting for either. I am shocked at all the people who will take Donald Trump at his word when historically he has said things completely different from what he's saying now.

I mean the man was essentially a known liberal saying liberal things and supporting liberal causes. Then magically he ran for President and fed the sweet red meat to people they so desperately wanted to hear. It's even more odd when Republicans complained about Dems eating up Obama's every word and promises when they in turn just did the same thing. They complained about Obama being a media star while Trump spends his days on Twitter firing insults at everyone.

And now somehow the Republicans supposedly the small government conservative party ran a guy who explicitly said he will borrow more money and potentially default on it if need be.

Shocking really. I'll probably stay at home on election day or vote third party.
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What are your thoughts on Bernie?
 
Misfit28 said:
What are your thoughts on Bernie?
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Unrealistic ideas, further left than I would like on the economy (I'm actually even though it doesn't sound like it fairly conservative economically), probably lines up real close socially (leave people alone and left them make their own choices).

I will give him a lot of credit for consistency and I can see the appeal behind him definitely. I have just as many issues with the far left than I do the far right though. I think the answer to most everything is in the middle in all life (moderation baby) and politics is no different. I can get on board with ideas like breaking up banks and reforming tax code.

I think the general partisan tilt of people being team red all the way or team blue all the way is bad for the country. I would like to see sensible people in government who can listen to problems and act rationally. I think now we are starting to get people on the fringes too much. We used to not listen to the crazies. Now the crazies have social media and get all the attention.
 
Geoforce said:
People in wealthier communities aren't going to see it as often because it is done less. Drug use sticks out more there. People up to no good does as well. Areas of high poverty are going to see more crime and more drug use. It is going to be accepted more as what people do. Wealthy people are going to soccer practice, taking vacations, going to the mall. Poor people are looking for escapes.

It's not really a black white thing either. I live in a county that is over 98% white, largely religious and conservative as the day is long according to voting habits. We have huge drug problems largely meth, but also other drugs. Most of the rural areas houses are ran down. They may trust the police, but the police don't come often and don't do much there. The areas don't have the budget for it. You've got to pay for the police through taxes after all :)

I don't think our President has much to do with a lot of these issues. They aren't new. You had people doing drugs in huge amounts in the 80's. Drug use in teens is as low as it has been in a long time.
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I strongly disagree with your last statement...the president sets the tone, he has encouraged mistrust of the police within the black community. I also disagree with teen drug use being lower.

Obama could have told blacks that there are serious problems with how law enforcement deals with blacks, and I am going to do everything in my power to correct this, but street justice and violence against police gets you locked up....he could have allocated resources for community outreach programs between police and blacks...Obama was in a position as the 1st black president to do some really good things for the black community-to me he has failed miserably!!!
 
thebigt said:
I strongly disagree with your last statement...the president sets the tone, he has encouraged mistrust of the police within the black community. I also disagree with teen drug use being lower.

Obama could have told blacks that there are serious problems with how law enforcement deals with blacks, and I am going to do everything in my power to correct this, but street justice and violence against police gets you locked up....he could have allocated resources for community outreach programs between police and blacks...Obama was in a position as the 1st black president to do some really good things for the black community-to me he has failed miserably!!!
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Teen drug use is way lower. It's not really up for debate. Invalid Link Removed

I could agree that Obama may have been able to do more, but I guess I don't see specifically why it has to be him. Why didn't other Presidents do something before him? We have had police brutality, riots against the policy, etc. for a long time. If anything I see Obama as being the status quo. Some of the issues in the black community go way further back and will take much more than some President just saying "be a good boy" to fix.
 
Geoforce said:
Unrealistic ideas, further left than I would like on the economy (I'm actually even though it doesn't sound like it fairly conservative economically), probably lines up real close socially (leave people alone and left them make their own choices).

I will give him a lot of credit for consistency and I can see the appeal behind him definitely. I have just as many issues with the far left than I do the far right though. I think the answer to most everything is in the middle in all life (moderation baby) and politics is no different. I can get on board with ideas like breaking up banks and reforming tax code.

I think the general partisan tilt of people being team red all the way or team blue all the way is bad for the country. I would like to see sensible people in government who can listen to problems and act rationally. I think now we are starting to get people on the fringes too much. We used to not listen to the crazies. Now the crazies have social media and get all the attention.
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So true.

I'm very idealistic, and support Bernie all the way :)

However, I can totally agree with moderation being the best route if possible. The key phrase being if possible ;)
 
Misfit28 said:
So true.

I'm very idealistic, and support Bernie all the way :)

However, I can totally agree with moderation being the best route if possible. The key phrase being if possible ;)
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Like I said I can see his appeal. The problem is I don't see him being able to get any of the things he wants to get done done through Congress. He definitely has some good ideas I would support, but some of his ideas may be a little out there imo.

No willingness by either side to even attempt to compromise I truly believe will damn us more than anything. Somewhere along the line government went from work across the aisle, take and give, compromise to hate the enemy at all costs. Doesn't matter how good of an idea something is you can't support it if it doesn't contain your letter. If you do your party runs someone against you saying "look he voted once with the President." "He voted once with a Republican!"

It's really bad where I'm from in Kansas. We have eliminated anything resembling moderation and elected a bunch of far right loonies. We've always had far right loonies, we just kept them in check via Dems and moderate Republicans who wouldn't let them go off the reservation. Then we just had to purge anything that seemed like it used reason (RINO alert!) elected a bunch of far right loons and now we are a laughingstock. Other states get in trouble with the same thing but too far left.

Anyways, that's just the ramblings of a guy who can't do anything like the rest of us on here but talk.
 
Geoforce said:
Like I said I can see his appeal. The problem is I don't see him being able to get any of the things he wants to get done done through Congress. He definitely has some good ideas I would support, but some of his ideas may be a little out there imo.

No willingness by either side to even attempt to compromise I truly believe will damn us more than anything. Somewhere along the line government went from work across the aisle, take and give, compromise to hate the enemy at all costs. Doesn't matter how good of an idea something is you can't support it if it doesn't contain your letter. If you do your party runs someone against you saying "look he voted once with the President." "He voted once with a Republican!"

It's really bad where I'm from in Kansas. We have eliminated anything resembling moderation and elected a bunch of far right loonies. We've always had far right loonies, we just kept them in check via Dems and moderate Republicans who wouldn't let them go off the reservation. Then we just had to purge anything that seemed like it used reason (RINO alert!) elected a bunch of far right loons and now we are a laughingstock. Other states get in trouble with the same thing but too far left.

Anyways, that's just the ramblings of a guy who can't do anything like the rest of us on here but talk.
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So very true, happened here in Tennessee too. Tea Party insanity.
 
Geoforce said:
And now somehow the Republicans supposedly the small government conservative party ran a guy who explicitly said he will borrow more money and potentially default on it if need be.

Shocking really. I'll probably stay at home on election day or vote third party.
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You suffer from the same affliction that the GOP leaders do. It's not even about his exact stance on every single thing as it is a protest against the GOP leadership. The voters sent republicans to Congress and swept 3 midterm elections in a row to gain control of Congress. Yet the leadership still failed to uphold their campaign promises and still piss on the will of the voters that sent them there. Remember Eric Cantor, the party 2nd in command, got smoked by an accountant running a $10,000 campaign.
 
Geoforce said:
What freedoms and liberties are being taken away? I listed that you can pretty much make your own decisions in most of your life. Sure you can't go 90 in certain areas and you can't smoke in our library anymore, but are we really acting like this is the erosion of our freedom?

How did that "extra" freedom work out in the past? I'm sure people during the Great Depression weren't crying about more civil liberties....they wanted to eat. Blacks, womens, gays, I don't think any of them would like to go to the past and compare treatment to 2016.

Be specific and I may be inclined to agree with you. Sweeping platitudes makes you sound like a politician.
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First off I dont have the right to own my own labor, which I consider slavery. Im extremely limited in the 2nd amendment, my right to bear arms especially here in NY where I cant even have a carry on which is when I most want to be armed. I support open carry.

Under the National Defense Resources Preparedness act, the military can kick and dwell in our home, steal our resources force us to labor. This is completely unacceptable.

All they have to do is declare a state of emergency and we have no Constitution, just like Boston a couple years ago or Katrina. Bill of Rights gone.

Then there is a bill that allows the government to detail and bypass all due process including a right to an attorney.

The airports are Bill or Rights free zones, been groped twice already by some freak.

Im forced to buy into services that I dont want such as SS and Medicare, and now I must buy insurance just because the government tells me too.

The freedom of the press has its freedoms diminished, under Obama more journalists have been issued a subpoena than all the previous president's combined under the WWI espionage act which was supposed to be temporary.

I can keep going but will stop right there,

So yeah I love life, and this is the best time to defend our Bill of Rights and constitution. Id feel ignorant and unpatriotic should I let things be just because I got it good. Now is the time to step it UP! I dont want to be on my death bed thinking I didnt try to do anything at all and try to give the country to the next generation for the better.

Geoforce said:
It is HIGHLY likely that will never happen again in the history of this country.
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Yeah right, countries go to wars over stupid things. Imagine if China shot out that Navy Ship that went by the Chinese man made islands the other day.

They already re-instituted alternative version the draft just a few years ago, I wonder why? And in this draft, age and sex dont discriminate. They dont even give you a draft card, they just show up and tell you to shut up and go to work.
 
youngandfree said:
You suffer from the same affliction that the GOP leaders do. It's not even about his exact stance on every single thing as it is a protest against the GOP leadership. The voters sent republicans to Congress and swept 3 midterm elections in a row to gain control of Congress. Yet the leadership still failed to uphold their campaign promises and still piss on the will of the voters that sent them there. Remember Eric Cantor, the party 2nd in command, got smoked by an accountant running a $10,000 campaign.
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So to protest the GOP leadership the GOP voters decided to put their power behind a guy who has essentially been liberal his entire life, donated to liberal causes, and essentially has acted like a 10 year old during the campaign. Why would voters worried about someone keeping their promises run someone who has such a history of flip flopping?
 
Geoforce said:
So to protest the GOP leadership the GOP voters decided to put their power behind a guy who has essentially been liberal his entire life, donated to liberal causes, and essentially has acted like a 10 year old during the campaign. Why would voters worried about someone keeping their promises run someone who has such a history of flip flopping?
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Im not supporting or voting Trump, I dont trust him.

Ill give him this from my own personal experience. I used to strongly support the democratic party and liberal's and even voted for him in 08. Just a year later, Obama woke me up so much it changed me entirely. I started thinking about freedom and the power of individual liberty.

People change. Did Trump change? I dunno.
 
ax1 said:
First off I dont have the right to own my own labor, which I consider slavery. Im extremely limited in the 2nd amendment, my right to bear arms especially here in NY where I cant even have a carry on which is when I most want to be armed. I support open carry.

Under the National Defense Resources Preparedness act, the military can kick and dwell in our home, steal our resources force us to labor. This is completely unacceptable.

All they have to do is declare a state of emergency and we have no Constitution, just like Boston a couple years ago or Katrina. Bill of Rights gone.

Then there is a bill that allows the government to detail and bypass all due process including a right to an attorney.

The airports are Bill or Rights free zones, been groped twice already by some freak.

Im forced to buy into services that I dont want such as SS and Medicare, and now I must buy insurance just because the government tells me too.

The freedom of the press has its freedoms diminished, under Obama more journalists have been issued a subpoena than all the previous president's combined under the WWI espionage act which was supposed to be temporary.

I can keep going but will stop right there,

So yeah I love life, and this is the best time to defend our Bill of Rights and constitution. Id feel ignorant and unpatriotic should I let things be just because I got it good. Now is the time to step it UP! I dont want to be on my death bed thinking I didnt try to do anything at all and try to give the country to the next generation for the better.



Yeah right, countries go to wars over stupid things. Imagine if China shot out that Navy Ship that went by the Chinese man made islands the other day.

They already re-instituted alternative version the draft just a few years ago, I wonder why? And in this draft, age and sex dont discriminate. They dont even give you a draft card, they just show up and tell you to shut up and go to work.
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We'll agree to disagree on the draft. I'd say it is FAR more likely the draft never happens again than happens in your lifetime. For one thing we don't need as many soldiers.

Some of your other points I agree with, but you have never owned all the fruits of your labor. Taxation is hardly a new concept and you haven't lived a day in your life where you had the ability to not be taxed. Staying in America to fight for something you've never known seems crazy to say the least. You've essentially made a choice by not moving. You've said you are ok with taxation because you will not do your alternate option which is to not live in this nation.

So you may hate it all you want, but when push comes to shove you are not willing to do the one thing that will "free" you from that burden.
 
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