Donald Trump running for president

ax1 said:
You can have an "enhanced' drivers license too like I do. With that you can leave your passport at home. Just an information post, lol.
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I used to be able to pass the Canadian border with the enhanced drivers license as well, until a few years back. I believe that law has been changed as well even if driving across, a passport is required by everyone now.
 
But my point is, the government certainly isn't allowing people to cross borders without an ID, and without a background check/scan in their database. What Trump has recommended isn't an enhanced check at the border. He wants to block the border completely for a whole religion. Border guards can do background checks right at the border, this is what they do for everyone. I've had things pulled up and mentioned to me from years ago at the border. What Trump wants to do is remove the liberties of a whole religious group, including Americans, and make it nearly impossible for them to come and go as they please.
 
So
Gutterpump said:
But my point is, the government certainly isn't allowing people to cross borders without an ID, and without a background check/scan in their database. What Trump has recommended isn't an enhanced check at the border. He wants to block the border completely for a whole religion. Border guards can do background checks right at the border, this is what they do for everyone. I've had things pulled up and mentioned to me from years ago at the border.
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Exactly. And he wants a religious test to enter the country as well, from what I understand.

IMO, that goes against everything America was founded upon.

So apparently the constitutionalists want to change that part of the Constitution? Is that what I am hearing from Trump supporters?
 
Gutterpump said:
But my point is, the government certainly isn't allowing people to cross borders without an ID, and without a background check/scan in their database. What Trump has recommended isn't an enhanced check at the border. He wants to block the border completely for a whole religion. Border guards can do background checks right at the border, this is what they do for everyone. I've had things pulled up and mentioned to me from years ago at the border. What Trump wants to do is remove the liberties of a whole religious group, including Americans, and make it nearly impossible for them to come and go as they please.
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There is border patrol have have come out and said they have been ordered to stand down.
 
Misfit28 said:
So

Exactly. And he wants a religious test to enter the country as well, from what I understand.

IMO, that goes against everything America was founded upon.

So apparently the constitutionalists want to change that part of the Constitution? Is that what I am hearing from Trump supporters?
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Constitution only applies to American citizens.
 
Misfit28 said:
I think Trump is insane, honestly. He will make America even more of a laughingstock than it already is. Either that, or he will totally reverse his positions and be just like Hillary.

Either way, I don't trust the man not to destroy America. I don't trust Hillary not to, either though.

Honestly, I may just write in Bernie regardless of the nomination. He is by far the most principled and ethical of any of the candidates.
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Here's my thought process - I've been paying taxes since Reagan, and was *very* political since Bill - NO WAY I VOTE HILLARY.

Trump I agree is a nightmare for civil liberties (guns is my other non-negotiable but I think he isn't a threat there) - but I think he can be tempered by Congress and the USSC.

Bernie I actually believe is the only one with a somewhat "pure heart", but he is a socialist and "free college money" has to come from somewhere, and it probably won't be from Aircraft Carriers.

If I vote my conviction/party, it'll be Gary Johnson - but no way a Libertarian takes the OO in this rigged system we have.

So, since BOTH Dems and Repubs HATE Trump - there is some good there in that, they hate him for a reason, and I hate both of them so.... It'll probably be Trump. Good lord, if you were an adult during the Clinton Presidency, how you could think of voting Hillary is beyond me :D Plus, this country wasn't created for "Dynasties" to rule like Kings. 2 Bushes were bad, thank God there weren't 3. 2 Clintons is a Nightmare - who's next, Chelsea? Jefferson and Franklin are rolling in their graves over all these "Kings" we elect.
 
ax1 said:
Constitution only applies to American citizens.
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The USSC has ruled that the Bill of Rights (The actual Constitution is just an outline of how the government will run - age of President, who is responsible for what, etc...) applies to *anyone* inside the borders of the United States, OR a US Citizen *anywhere* when being dealt with by an arm of the US Government. You'd have to look up each case for the specifics and there are obviously some limits - but you can't snag an illegal and torture him into a confession (legally...now a days torture seems cool to some people :D).

Thank god those Anti-Federalists insisted on the Bill of Rights... those Conspiracy Theorists :D
 
ax1 said:
If its government regulated protest, its not a protest. Nobody can tell you that you dont have a voice or your individual power to protest just because you opted out not to support tyranny.
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Of course, that's the real world and always will be. Freedom cannot be legislated, it's a logical fallacy to think otherwise. I just meant legally, but that's another complicated topic that makes my brain hurt. (i know smith, i know.... me voy ahora, lol)
 
ax1 said:
There is border patrol have have come out and said they have been ordered to stand down.
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Ordered by whom? I did not think that there is a higher power at the border - if so, I wish I was aware of this. Border patrol has the power to remove you from the border simply if they don't like your face, and there is nobody to complain to. This has been a problem for a few people I know who were denied for no official reason. They actually returned a week later and were allowed through. The border guard at the previous entry was simply having a bad day, and nothing could be done about it. They have almost too much power.
 
Gutterpump said:
I could be wrong, but hasn't Trump said the new law would be for all Muslims coming and going? This would include American Muslims.
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I dont support the religious screening at all just to be clear, but if American's muslims are screened than I stand up for the muslims.

Then again, the TSA gropes and sexually molests Americans on a daily basis (im a TSA victim myself, twice,) and 10s of thousands of people are randomly put on a "no fly list" with no due process, so what Trump wants isnt nearly as bad.
 
Gutterpump said:
But my point is, the government certainly isn't allowing people to cross borders without an ID, and without a background check/scan in their database. What Trump has recommended isn't an enhanced check at the border. He wants to block the border completely for a whole religion. Border guards can do background checks right at the border, this is what they do for everyone. I've had things pulled up and mentioned to me from years ago at the border. What Trump wants to do is remove the liberties of a whole religious group, including Americans, and make it nearly impossible for them to come and go as they please.
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Certainly not allowing people without ID cross huh.

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Gutterpump said:
Ordered by whom? I did not think that there is a higher power at the border - if so, I wish I was aware of this. Border patrol has the power to remove you from the border simply if they don't like your face, and there is nobody to complain to. This has been a problem for a few people I know who were denied for no official reason. They actually returned a week later and were allowed through. The border guard at the previous entry was simply having a bad day, and nothing could be done about it. They have almost too much power.
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Id have to dig up the info, but sorry short on time. This is what Ive come across so just typing whats on my mind here.

They higher power Im talking about is the Federal Government of course. Border Patrol agents are mostly very good people but their job is to take orders.
 
Gutterpump said:
I could be wrong, but hasn't Trump said the new law would be for all Muslims coming and going? This would include American Muslims.
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Your understanding very wrong. An American Muslim is a citizen, and he has only talked about not allowing Muslim immigrants or refugees coming from Syria and other ISIS strongholds.
 
youngandfree said:
Certainly not allowing people without ID cross huh.

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Are these not illegal immigrants? Hence they crossed illegally. Dumb ass. I said there is no law which allows people to cross without an ID. Show me a written law which states any group of people may cross with no ID. Illegals are still illegals, weather or not they are given amnesty.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
The USSC has ruled that the Bill of Rights (The actual Constitution is just an outline of how the government will run - age of President, who is responsible for what, etc...) applies to *anyone* inside the borders of the United States, OR a US Citizen *anywhere* when being dealt with by an arm of the US Government. You'd have to look up each case for the specifics and there are obviously some limits - but you can't snag an illegal and torture him into a confession (legally...now a days torture seems cool to some people :D).

Thank god those Anti-Federalists insisted on the Bill of Rights... those Conspiracy Theorists :D
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Obama has "legally" but unconstitutionally allowed the arrest and detention of all American citizens without due process or allow Constitutional rights to those as well. Of course, they also assassinate Americans without due process as well. Nothing is off limits when it comes to big government.

Bill of Rights is just a piece of paper I happen to like. When it comes to the Federal Government, they dont respect those papers. All they need to do is declare a state of emergency and the Constitution is completely suspended.
 
youngandfree said:
Your understanding very wrong. An American Muslim is a citizen, and he has only talked about not allowing Muslim immigrants or refugees coming from Syria and other ISIS strongholds.
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I admit, I wasn't 100% sure, but now I am. I suppose you need to read up on the constitution and bill of rights:

The_Old_Guy said:
The USSC has ruled that the Bill of Rights (The actual Constitution is just an outline of how the government will run - age of President, who is responsible for what, etc...) applies to *anyone* inside the borders of the United States, OR a US Citizen *anywhere* when being dealt with by an arm of the US Government. You'd have to look up each case for the specifics and there are obviously some limits - but you can't snag an illegal and torture him into a confession (legally...now a days torture seems cool to some people :D).

Thank god those Anti-Federalists insisted on the Bill of Rights... those Conspiracy Theorists :D
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Also, from what I've heard from him (unless he's completely backpeddled which isn't surprising since his views are so extreme) was a complete shutdown of Muslim immigration/movement across the border.
 
ax1 said:
Obama has "legally" but unconstitutionally allowed the arrest and detention of all American citizens without due process or allow Constitutional rights to those as well....
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National Defense Authorization Act of 2012. Yes, I'm well aware. I'm speaking generalizations. You and I are probably close on a lot of this. Lying crooks who don't GAS about the regular AMCIT - yup, yup, yup.
 
ax1 said:
Id have to dig up the info, but sorry short on time. This is what Ive come across so just typing whats on my mind here.

They higher power Im talking about is the Federal Government of course. Border Patrol agents are mostly very good people but their job is to take orders.
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I am sure this must be possible for some higher-ups, like diplomats and such, but there is no service for regular citizens to use or contact to try to get a border guard to stand down. Sounds like an extreme situation which none of us peons are privy to.
 
Gutterpump said:
Are these not illegal immigrants? Hence they crossed illegally. Dumb ass. I said there is no law which allows people to cross without an ID. Show me a written law which states any group of people may cross with no ID. Illegals are still illegals, weather or not they are given amnesty.
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You said they weren't ALLOWING it
 
Gutterpump said:
I admit, I wasn't 100% sure, but now I am. I suppose you need to read up on the constitution and bill of rights:



Also, from what I've heard from him (unless he's completely backpeddled which isn't surprising since his views are so extreme) was a complete shutdown of Muslim immigration/movement across the border.
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You should stop reading Huffpo and Daily Koz
 
Gutterpump said:
I am sure this must be possible for some higher-ups, like diplomats and such, but there is no service for regular citizens to use or contact to try to get a border guard to stand down. Sounds like an extreme situation which none of us peons are privy to.
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Illegals tell them they've been here since 2014 and the BP has to let them go without verifying it.
 
youngandfree said:
You said they weren't ALLOWING it
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Are they f&*king allowing people to cross the border with no ID? No that's called illegal immigration. Nobody is allowed past any border guard with no ID. Simple common sense. They'd have to sneak in illegally. So you're saying Trump wants to put an end to illegal immigration? Cos it's already illegal.
 
Gutterpump said:
Are they f&*king allowing people to cross the border with no ID? No that's called illegal immigration. Nobody is allowed past any border guard with no ID. Simple common sense. They'd have to sneak in illegally. So you're saying Trump wants to put an end to illegal immigration? Cos it's already illegal.
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Who needs a coherent policy on anything when you can just stoke the hatred of angry white people who are angry that non white people are getting "free stuff"?
 
Misfit28 said:
Who needs a coherent policy on anything when you can just stoke the hatred of angry white people who are angry that non white people are getting "free stuff"?
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That's exactly what he's been doing. His policies are so wishy washy and vague, he's just been trying to play off people's fear and anger.

If he's ever elected, watch him do a round-about turn and reform all of his extremist views to something actually practical.
 
Gutterpump said:
That's exactly what he's been doing. His policies are so wishy washy and vague, he's just been trying to play off people's fear and anger.

If he's ever elected, watch him do a round-about turn and reform all of his extremist views to something actually practical.
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Wishy washy?!?!

Look, pal, just because he was a Hilary Clinton supporting Democrat last year doesn't mean he's wishy washy, okay?!
 
Gutterpump said:
Are they f&*king allowing people to cross the border with no ID? No that's called illegal immigration. Nobody is allowed past any border guard with no ID. Simple common sense. They'd have to sneak in illegally. So you're saying Trump wants to put an end to illegal immigration? Cos it's already illegal.
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You obviously didn't read the article stating the BP has been ordered to stand down and release those caught illegally crossing with no form of ID.
 
Gutterpump said:
Are they f&*king allowing people to cross the border with no ID? No that's called illegal immigration. Nobody is allowed past any border guard with no ID. Simple common sense. They'd have to sneak in illegally. So you're saying Trump wants to put an end to illegal immigration? Cos it's already illegal.
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Government and illegal certainly are inseparable.

I have no problem with what your saying if your going by the books the way its supposed to work.
 
Misfit28 said:
Who needs a coherent policy on anything when you can just stoke the hatred of angry white people who are angry that non white people are getting "free stuff"?
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I have a hatred (well, thats a strong word) for white people getting free stuff too though. I dont think that the general consensus is that people hate others of only a specific color getting free stuff.
 
youngandfree said:
You obviously didn't read the article stating the BP has been ordered to stand down and release those caught illegally crossing with no form of ID.
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I don't have time to read right now. This is right at the border? If so, that shouldn't be allowed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever why they'd stand down at the border.

I can see why amnesty could be given for individuals proving they are law-abiding contributing people (to an extent), but not a stand down at the border...
 
Gutterpump said:
I don't have time to read right now. This is right at the border? If so, that shouldn't be allowed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever why they'd stand down at the border.

I can see why amnesty could be given for individuals proving they are law-abiding contributing people (to an extent), but not a stand down at the border...
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Allowing illegals in allows for political leverage.
 
Gutterpump said:
I don't have time to read right now. This is right at the border? If so, that shouldn't be allowed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever why they'd stand down at the border.

I can see why amnesty could be given for individuals proving they are law-abiding contributing people (to an extent), but not a stand down at the border...
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This is what Trump said too that he talked to border control agents and that they were ordered to stand down and let illegals through. I knew about this way before Trump said anything but anyways what you say is right, just the point is that some of us are saying that the illegals are illegally being let in which is the core of the problem, enforcement.
 
Gutterpump said:
I don't have time to read right now. This is right at the border? If so, that shouldn't be allowed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever why they'd stand down at the border.

I can see why amnesty could be given for individuals proving they are law-abiding contributing people (to an extent), but not a stand down at the border...
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Where else are the BP catching people crossing illegally? They aren't out patrolling Chicago or NY trolling for illegals. You saying it doesn't make sense why they would allow it doesn't mean they dont.

You're just like my coworker that is a die hard Obama nut hugging lib. He flat refuses to even believe anything g bad about obama. I asked him about why Obama and State Dept are flying illegal kids here from Central America to reunite them with their illegal family already here. He said there's no way that's happenening. I made the argument about the resurgence of diseases because there are 60,000 illegal kids that were dumped into public schools last year with ZERO health screenings. He cried BS because every kid has to prove immunization. When I showed him the memo from a VA school board saying schools are required to allow homeless kids without them showing proof of shots. Guess what a bunch of illegal kids are. Homeless. Guess how many got dumped into VA schools. Almost 2000. Without any proof of immunization.

He still flat argues there's no way illegal kids from Central America are bringing back diseases we got rid of. I can't help people that flat refuse to open their eyes.

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Gutterpump said:
Pls explain
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Many people in poor 3rd world countries support big government. Sorta like the way Lyndon Johnson used blacks to empower the democratic party.


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In a shocking reversal of policy, U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents are being told to release illegal immigrants and no longer order them to appear at deportation hearings, essentially a license to stay in the United States, a key agent testified Thursday.

What's more, the stand down order includes a requirement that the whereabouts of illegals released are not to be tracked.

"We might as well abolish our immigration laws altogether," suggested agent Brandon Judd, president of the National Border Patrol Council.
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youngandfree said:
You're just like my coworker that is a die hard Obama nut hugging lib. He flat refuses to even believe anything g bad about obama.
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I'm a Canadian, I support Justin Trudeau. I am unable to vote in the US, but I can certainly say I don't support anything wrong coming from either camp, and I am not a fan of the GOP or Dems here. Already been made clear in this thread long ago though.
 
ax1 said:
Many people in poor 3rd world countries support big government. Sorta like the way Lyndon Johnson used blacks to empower the democratic party.


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In a shocking reversal of policy, U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents are being told to release illegal immigrants and no longer order them to appear at deportation hearings, essentially a license to stay in the United States, a key agent testified Thursday.

What's more, the stand down order includes a requirement that the whereabouts of illegals released are not to be tracked.

"We might as well abolish our immigration laws altogether," suggested agent Brandon Judd, president of the National Border Patrol Council.
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This is crazy, and I don't agree with it at all... but I still don't understand why they would be doing this for political gain.

Illegals can't vote, if that's what you meant by empowerment.
 
Gutterpump said:
I'm a Canadian, I support Justin Trudeau. I am unable to vote in the US, but I can certainly say I don't support anything wrong coming from either camp, and I am not a fan of the GOP or Dems here. Already been made clear in this thread long ago though.
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Then why do you keep making arguments about things you admit to not knowing anything about? That's my point. You keep arguing Trump wants to block all Muslims from entering, and then admitted you didn't really know what Trump said.
 
Gutterpump said:
This is crazy, and I don't agree with it at all... but I still don't understand why they would be doing this for political gain.

Illegals can't vote, if that's what you meant by empowerment.
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They plan things out long term, its nothing about the next election.

I honestly dont have all the answers, I just sense things arent going on right and Im still trying to figure out excactly who and why.
 
youngandfree said:
Then why do you keep making arguments about things you admit to not knowing anything about? That's my point. You keep arguing Trump wants to block all Muslims from entering, and then admitted you didn't really know what Trump said.
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I know what he said at one point, I pay attention to all the news sources here. But if he's since gone back on his original statement, well then I'm not surprised.
 
Gutterpump said:
This is crazy, and I don't agree with it at all... but I still don't understand why they would be doing this for political gain.

Illegals can't vote, if that's what you meant by empowerment.
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Illegals are going to vote in Cali and NY state elections. Which state just past a motor voter registration after deciding illegals could get drivers licenses? And the state admitted the election board most likely won't do a good job validating those automatic registrations which will result in illegals voting in elections.
 
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