LovingtoLift
Banned
Anyone here do this and if so do you believe sucralose is bad for gainz?
Anyone here use unflavored supps to stay away from artificial sweeteners?
- Thread starter LovingtoLift
- Start date
Drolhunter
Member
I'm using Stevia sweetened whey isolate and unflavored BCAA's and EAA's. I think it's a good way to control the overflow of artificial sweeteners by using unflavored when using a lot of amino acids for example.
john.patterson
Well-known member
Personally, I don't find any issues or problems with sucralose. However, I do use some bulk products at times (BCAA and creatine) just for the ease and cost.
LovingtoLift
Banned
Do you mix your unflavored supps with anything or just use water?
Drolhunter
Member
Just water, BCAA's taste pretty horrible at first but you get used to it haha.
Stevia sweetened whey isolate, especially strawberry is just pure gold!
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I think people spend too much time worrying about artificial sweeteners and trying to make them the bad guy. SUGAR is much worse for you any way you cut it. I add my bulk powders (NALT, ALCAR, Noopept, Vitamin C, etc.) to a gallon of crystal light and drink at least 1.5 gallons of that every day. That probably doesn't mean anything, but I am generally healthy beyond carrying some extra fat, which has been a lifelong issue for me - I'm slowly working on that.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Lol, I don't know how people don't. I drink 1.5 gallons of the crystal light, plus a couple cups of coffee, plus a monster drink, plus pre workouts, amino IV, etc. I'm easily over 2 gals/day and I wake up at night thirsty. Sure, I piss a lot too....
LeanEngineer
Legend
I mix it with milk and then throw my protein in there as well.
TKC432
Well-known member
I prefer just about everything that goes into my body to be as natural as possible. This means I tend to keep my diet based on whole foods and/or very minimally processed foods. I consider protein powder a 'food' so in keeping with my protocol I tend to favor brands that offer the highest quality with little to no unnecessary additives or fillers......and sucralose is the list of things to avoid for me. I fully believe that real sugar is better for you than the engineered sweeteners out there like sucralose. Sugar gets a bad rap mainly because of the excessive abuse of it in American culture. When children are being diagnosed with cirrhosis of the liver / fatty liver etc... like that of long term alcoholics it is evidence of and epidemic of sugar abuse in our country. So we all respond in horror and demonize sugar rather than realizing that in moderation it is fine .... I still opt for the most natural sugar option when sweetening a protein shake - organic local honey! So I usually go for the best quality, unflavored protein powder I can find and when I blend up a shake I add the honey. IF I mix a powder only shake in a shaker cup the honey thing won't work so I just power it down or toss in a packet of stevia. I feel that stevia is fine as a sweetener in place of sugar.....also in moderation .... if you can find a protein brand that uses it rather than sucralose as part of its flavor profile then you are that much ahead of the game. I have found one brand so far that fits my personal flavor/no filler/natural protocol. I am sure there are a few others out there but I like what I have found and will likely keep using it until such time there is a legitimate reason to make a change.
TKC432
Well-known member
-This
Another healthy option to add sweetener(Lactose) to an unflavored protein powder. Organic/hormone free/grass fed milk being my choice with this method. And for me I choose whole milk rather than lowfat or fat free .... another method to avoid excessive processing and in moderation coupled with a healthy, active bodybuilding way of life, the added fat from organic milk from grass fed cows is somewhat beneficial. I also have issue with the demonizing of Fat that has been so prevalent in our "healthy" lifestyle crowd .... any bodybuilder worth his salt knows the value of healthy unprocessed fats in the diet.
Justlooking5
Active member
I go with bulk usually for $ reasons and they're unflavored, and I don't buy sweeteners, though have thought about getting stevia or something along those lines
kenpoengineer
Well-known member
Agree wholeheartedly with TKC432! There are several supplement companies that use natural sweeteners. Ace K and sucralose messes with my GI tract. One company I can recommend is Get Diesel for releasing DIESELADE BCAA.
There are tons of research on artificial sweeteners affecting iodine levels and gut flora.
There are tons of research on artificial sweeteners affecting iodine levels and gut flora.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Legion uses all natural flavorings and sweeteners if you are trying to stay away from artificial. I'm in the "as long as you are not consuming 30 litres of Diet Coke a day, you are fine" camp. All the studies have been done with massive amounts. I do try to avoid Carmel Coloring though - luckily, it isn't in supps. I'm addicted to Wal-Mart "Clear" soda though! Have to limit myself to 1 a day, hahaha.
If you add up all the water *containing* stuff the average weightlifter consumes in a day - you are getting plenty of water.
If you add up all the water *containing* stuff the average weightlifter consumes in a day - you are getting plenty of water.
Rob1882
Active member
Nope
Artificial sweeteners IMO and based on research shown by the FDA as well the amount of support needed to be used in anything coming into contact with humans or other animals shows it to be perfectly safe used as it is. It is not as if these are not studied they have to be approved to even be utilized.
Supplements them selves are far more of an unknown than any artificial sweetener or artificial dye used in any food
Artificial sweeteners IMO and based on research shown by the FDA as well the amount of support needed to be used in anything coming into contact with humans or other animals shows it to be perfectly safe used as it is. It is not as if these are not studied they have to be approved to even be utilized.
Supplements them selves are far more of an unknown than any artificial sweetener or artificial dye used in any food
TKC432
Well-known member
I've been doing a lot of research lately on iodine levels and supplement additives as well as natural foods that cause a reduction in iodine. Goitrogenic foods have been on my radar lately. Over the past 2 years I have made a nearly every day habit to include raw broccoli and raw spinach in my meals .... and last month I began to exhibit symptoms of thyroid issues. Iodine being the main ingredient for proper hormone function, my research finally led me to the discovery that what I thought was healthy eating was actually hurting me. So, I started steaming my broccoli and spinach which I learned removes the goitrogenic enzyme, and a month later my symptoms have disappeared. kenpoengineer is spot on with the artificial sweeteners and iodine levels as well as gut flora. Further research confirmed this for me as well. Hence me staying away from inferior protein products and other supplements containing sucralose and other artificial sweeteners. Simple denatured low quality protein powders can have a toxic effect on iodine levels, gut flora and a host of other body functions. The heating process and acid filtration process etc. used in manufacturing lower quality protein powders denatures the proteins which causes a host of gut problems. This heating process also converts the glutamates and L-glutamic acid into free form D-glutamic acid .... which is basically MSG. There is much more to it than my one sentence on the subject so Do some research on how excessive MSG effects the body and you will want to avoid these lower quality proteins at all costs. We all need to remember that the supplement companies are selling products any way they can .... its up to us as the consumer to be knowledgeable enough to navigate the sea of supps and find the ones that are producing the higher quality, healthier supplements. Don't listen to me .... do your own research as I have and form your own opinion .... its your body.
TKC432
Well-known member
I may get flamed for this one but ..... I prefer whey concentrate over isolate or the other more processed whey proteins out there. Remember, the most minimally processed a food is, generally the healthier it is. Whey concentrate is the first step in the processing of whey powder .... isolate and hydrolosate are further down the processing line. Whey concentrate retains more of the natural and healthy benefits of the protein and if its cold processed, acid free processed it is as non-denatured as possible thus retaining a protein that the body recognizes as food and is more easily digested. No more gut issues.
FireRescue
Active member
One could argue that the FDA may not always always have our best interest in mind.
Rob1882
Active member
If your on a supplement forum that discusses both supplements and drugs... but worried about ingredients that have decades and decades of safety data as well studies long term showing them to be safe in the quantities used - on top of the fact that hundreds of millions use them daily.
Supplements & drugs being discussed little to no long term data at all on anything - Just no words like is this real life. To each their own food is extremely important to me as a gourmet foodie and cook and for me I see no reason to avoid artificial sweeteners or dyes if someone does that's fine but I will continue to consume them.
Supplements & drugs being discussed little to no long term data at all on anything - Just no words like is this real life. To each their own food is extremely important to me as a gourmet foodie and cook and for me I see no reason to avoid artificial sweeteners or dyes if someone does that's fine but I will continue to consume them.
TKC432
Well-known member
To each his own. And I respect that. I'm just putting out there what I prefer for myself. Everyone must do their own research and do what works for them. This goes for everything discussed on this forum. Training styles / splits. Supplements. Drugs. Everything bodybuilding. Best takeaway from all the responses to this post in my opinion would be to research. Ask questions. Assimilate it all and then make your own educated choices based on what you want for you.
cheeky1
Active member
...diabetes?
Yessir, that's not uncommon. I add apple cider vinegar to my flavoured/sweetened prewo & amino shakes to assist with gut biota.
And the FDA approved Aspartame all those years ago. That worked out well, just ask the people that (verifiably) died from overconsumption...oh wait.
And before that remember the video footage of whole neighbourhoods getting dusted with DDT. Mmmm, birth defects.
Glyphosate is being banned across Europe due to it being a known carcinogenic & endocrine disruptor, but is currently still in use here in Australia & in the US, despite mounting scientific & public pressure. FDA approved.
Healthy scepticism is vital, if we don't question the decision makers and ask what their motives are, if independent research is not conducted & the findings openly released, well...then we get what we deserve. Just sayin'.
machinehead
Well-known member
Back to the original question, I use unflavored powders because don't like drinking sweet things much. I tend to avoid Ace-K as it dries my mouth considerably and I prefer sucralose over stevia when it comes to taste and especially after taste. I don't get much of either though.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Haha, yeah, I really don't think it is diabetes...I don't have any signs of blood sugar issues. It could be possible as I've lost over 100 pounds...but I've just always been a big drinker and a big eater. If I push my intake to 3 or 3.5 gals/day I start having to force myself to drink and will be going to the bathroom constantly ...2-2.5 seems to be my sweet spot, which is just more than most people are used to.
I probably have some messed up brain signaling...I don't get full easily and can drink large amounts.
Who verifiably died from Aspartame? Last I knew it was three amino acids bound together...the chemistry isn't all that scary.
I agree that the FDA shouldn't be the one we look to for health advice...we should be free thinkers and make our own decisions and let others make theirs as long as those decisions don't effect others.
I've seen the studies about artificial sweeteners and gut bacteria, but, like all artificial sweetener scare studies, they seem to be filled with leaps in logic that seem plausible but are far from proven. I think that saying this chemical or that chemical is bad and just avoid it and you will be so much healthier is the same type of fallicy that supplement manufacturers use to increase sales - this one ingredient will change your life!!! It just seems to be an over simplification, usually by people who are afraid of chemistry, because they don't know it. Go look at supplements on amazon and see how many people say they don't want to put ANY chemicals in their body. Well, everything is a chemical.
And man made is OFTEN better than natural. Not always, but often. Natural ingredients tend to have shot gun effects...in order to change one pathway the natural chemical will also change other pathways that already work. A man made substance can be focused, for better and sometimes for worse.
The limit isn't that it is man made. The limit is that our knowledge is growing and we will get better. But that doesn't mean everything mam made is bad.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
A Poison Ivy salad would be 'Natural' - anyone want to eat it? 
HIT4ME
Well-known member
A Poison Ivy salad would be 'Natural' - anyone want to eat it?
Cyanide is as natural as anything. That is ONE ingredient that will change your life!
brofessorx
Well-known member
I've used unflavored hydrolyzed 520 dalton whey protein, and unflavored pepto pro.
I'll take the flavored stuff.
cheeky1
Active member
Aspartame, during the breakdown, converts to Aspartic Acid, Phenylalanine & Methanol. All are toxic in given quantities, but i'll focus on the Methanol component here and it's conversion to Formaldehyde (and subsequently Formic Acid).
Formaldehyde is generally able to be metabolized by the body & eliminated via natural body processes. It can be found in trace amounts in certain foods, apples notably.
The issue with excessive Formaldehyde consumption being that when the body is unable to keep up with the detoxification required to clear it and accumulation occurs. Formaldehyde is hepatotoxic and literally kills cells. The case that immediately comes to mind was of a woman charged with the murder of her husband - by poisoning him with Methanol/Formaldehyde. Long story short the coroner found evidence suggesting he'd been poisoned & the police pressed for murder. Upon investigation it was found that the deceased had a predilection for consuming large amounts of diet soda on a daily basis, so much so that even when performing his regular running routine on his treadmill he would keep a large bottle at hand, rather than water. Essentially, he replaced lost fluids with Methanol that his body simply couldn't expel - and he pickled himself to death. The accused was released.
There's actually quite a few cases to be found online, of deaths & serious illness. I personally know of one woman, a former workmate, who suffered severe migraines & eyesight failure while drinking diet soda. Her doctor was at a loss & when she suggested the soda as a contributing factor, timeframe apparent, he laughed it off. She stopped drinking it & said issues were relieved in short time.
Up until a few years ago it was extremely difficult for death to be attributed to Aspartame ingestion, but such has been the weight of evidence that doctors, coroners & police previously pressured into finding other/unrelated/natural causes are now able to ascertain the true causal factor without fear of a tap on the shoulder. This is a multi-BILLION dollar industry & those that run it want it to remain that way.
GD Searle tried for years to get Aspartame listed with the FDA as a food additive, repeatedly blocked as it was a pharmaceutical anti-ulcer drug. In 1986 (if memory serves me correct) this was granted, after a hefty approval fee was paid. Subsequently, all FDA panel members on the case found employment with Searle & co over a period of about 4 - 5 years. Every single person, one by one. Call me sceptical, but I took any artificial food additive/drug approval with a big grain of salt after learning that.
jamesm11
Well-known member
Companies regularly hire from federal agencies, it's not weird at all. The employees know the ins-and-outs and they're very useful for that special insight in the private sector. And if someone gets in they typically bring their feiends or co-workers because the employwr trusts the source. This happens in the legal field all the time. The amount of conspiracy theories on this forum are crazy.
cheeky1
Active member
The question was asked as to deaths via Aspartame, I gave a response including brief product history. Call that factual information conspiracy theory if you so choose to.
I don't disagree with what you're saying & of course industry knowledge is useful, but would you be comfortable knowing that 6 or 8 state defence attorneys ALL took up positions with a company they had previously & repeatedly been prosecuting for tax evasion, or illegal trading practices? No conflict of interest?
Politicians also do it frequently, flipping from public to private enterprise & back again. Doesn't make them any more trusted either.
cheeky1
Active member
The line I wrote about about docs etc getting a tap on the shoulder...well, i'll give you that. I will say that everything is a conspiracy theory until the truth is brought to light. Current case in point Gardasil. God help anyone who's been exposed to that toxic, disease causing rot, makes me ashamed to be Australian.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
LMAO- pick your poison here. If the sweetener will kill you, it won't kill you as fast as something that tastes that bad!
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Cheeky - Thanks for taking the time to actually respond with a thought out response and for adding to an actual discussion of this rather than just having another thread where everyone has to agree.
Your points are interesting, and they warrant my researching more when I have time. I do see potential errors in your reasoning though.
1. Just because a case was thrown out doesn't mean it was proven that artificial played a role in the death of the woman's husband. All it means is that it was determined that an abnormally large consumption may have thrown the results of the autopsy enough to indicate poisoning when it was not the case - and thus there may have been reasonable doubt that the wife did not poison him. This is far from causative and not exactly scientific fact. This is from an internet story, which I assume is true because I trust YOU and your research.
2. Just because Aspartame breaks down into something that CAN be converted into something else, that may be dangerous, doesn't mean much. This could be said about a number of things we ingest. As far as formaldehyde, the LD50 is 100mg/kg - or 6.8 grams for a 68KG person. Obviously you are right, this may be much more than is necessary to produce symptoms of sickness. But still, if you had even 50 grams of aspartame in a day, how much of that realistically will become methanol (if any), and how much of that methanol (if any) would ACTUALLY be converted to formaldehyde? As you said, our body is designed and capable of handling SOME fomaldehyde. Even at a very large dose of aspartame, it seems like a large jump to assume there would be much of any effect from its breakdown in our system. Further, I'm not sure it really breaks down in our system all that much.
Having said that, and going back to my previous response - I think this stuff is over-thought and people need a "bad guy" that if they just avoid this one thing, their life will be so much different and better - I've always felt that aspartame is probably one of the worst offenders amongst the artificial sweeteners used today, and the most likely to have negative outcomes. Even still - the evidence from what I've seen in actual scientific research, has been limited. That doesn't mean it can't be bad for you, just that there is no evidence that it is bad for you. We may just not have done the right research yet, but we have to look at the evidence and make decisions.
On the other hand, here is some info on the FDA's site itself that has someone sharing your thoughts:
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Finally, an interesting article on Stevia is on the front page of AM today - it is from Suppversity and points out that Stevia is more highly processed than aspartame, yet there is evidence that it is anti-microbial, has gut flora benefits and may cause weight loss. Just makes the man-made vs. natural angle more complex.
compan
Active member
I liked using Hemavol Raw when stacking with other pre-workouts because a lot of flavorings are already pretty strong. I liked having the option for that profile in flavorless rather than adding bulks. Have also used flavorless protein before for baking or making protein bars. Nuts n' More makes awesome flavors, so a lot of times I would use whichever flavor as my base and then add a little extra unflavored protein.
kenpoengineer
Well-known member
Interesting that I just read that General Mills is removing artificial colors and flavors from their cereals. Maybe a movement is starting? Off topic but interesting.
cheeky1
Active member
Thank you & yes, I'm all for interesting & debateable discussion.
1) That report was in fact in print, not online. Don't ask me to dig it up though, it was some time ago & it's well buried by now. Point being that the levels of the substance in question were determined to be of such a sufficient quantity as to induce a negative health reaction causing death. He was a heavy consumer of diet soda & the years of regular consumption produced such cumulative toxicity as to be devastating to his internal organs. Age may have played a part, I recall him being in his 50's or 60's, perhaps a younger person would have taken such doses more readily & processed it more effectively, but in this case the sole causative factor was shown to be the Aspartame.
2) Indeed & see above. If you already have liver efficiency impairment then at what volume does acceptable levels become unacceptable levels. If someone already had cirrhosis then waste management is going to be poor & constant saturation will inevitably induce a failure of some description.
There is undoubtedly much consternation over man made vs natural & I say each to their own. My choice is to limit intake & as such it's only my gym supps that contain artificials, my food is clean.
Like the questioning of pesticides, parabens and the like, my primary concern is cumulative toxicity. There's simply no data out thee showing what effect product "x" will have when consumed/exposed with product "y" over long periods of time (insert also products a - w). Scary thing is, testing recently performed on a group of late term pregnant women showed some very worrying trends, such as high levels of phthalates, pcb's & much more. Exposure to plastics & flame retardents was a big factor apparently, but the really worrying part was that the one mother who lived the cleanest, healthiest lifestyle of the group (I'm talking hippy standards here) had testable levels of DDT in her milk - that was banned 10 years BEFORE she was even born! Off topic I know, but an indication of how long chemicals can hang around, and so many are now being discovered to be endocrine disruptors, lowering of male fertility rates link back to this.
I do consume products containing artificial sweeteners & I do find most US produced supplements to be excessively sweet tasting, moreso than Australian made products. If I had a choice of the same product with stevia or a sugar alcohol like erythritol or xylitol I would choose that. Many food products use a combination of both.
If I desire a quick carb hit & or sweetener then I opt for coconut palm sugar or rapadura (panela).
For a BCAA product I like MRM Reload, naturally flavoured & sweetened (I'm not sure if all of that range is).
cheeky1
Active member
I wish BPI would follow suit with Blox - that stuff is so full of dye & flavouring it's ridiculous. No wonder it's on sale everywhere atm.
brofessorx
Well-known member
yea, it ttok a while to finish those lol
Aaron.Cole
Active member
Where do you get your cold-processed whey conc? Just curious.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
TN's WPC is Cold Filtered. It looks like RD's is as well.
Aaron.Cole
Active member
I've only ever heard of TN but I'm liking what I'm seeing. Cool flavor options. Solid price and ratios, too. Gonna have to try them out!
Tiocfaidh
Active member
Would never trust that guy. Straight up creepy and shady. I remember Mike from scivation had a bad experience with him. No thanks.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Dante?
Aaron.Cole
Active member
Ahh gotcha. That's reassuring. I was worried about the immediate conflicting views lol
FireRescue
Active member
Having purchased and used both of their products either is a solid choice. Muscle Feast typically has some pretty good sales on their proteins. Their 100% whey, which is roughly 50%WPI/50%WPC, was recently on sale for $35 for 5lbs. There WPI is on sale often for $53 for 5 pounds.
Jiigzz
Legend
There is more methanol in one apple than in a can of diet soda.
In fact it would take ALOT of aspartame to induce problems relating to Formaldehyde.
Granted, the way the aminos are bonded is also important, but based on what aspartame is made up of, its not a huge cause for concern
cheeky1
Active member
True - but one doesn't eat 6+ apples at a time, several times a day. As I said, cumulative toxicity. Not a huge cause for concern if common sense is applied.
TKC432
Well-known member
I prefer whey concentrate for the simple fact that it is less processed .... so I have tried their Natures Whey. Unflavored is the only choice with that route however .... and considering concentrate maintains the milk fat I also opt for grass fed in order to take advantage of the better fat profile ... CLA rather than the more unhealthy fats that are typical of grain and commercial 'garbage fed' cows .... Truenutrition offers more variety with regard to whey concentrate .... either their New Zealand grass fed or their USA sourced grass fed .... and they have flavor options that are not based on sucralose or other crap. TN is my top choice for these reasons but lately money has been tight around our place so I have been using MuscleFeast. Unflavored is fine ... and when I have the cash I will treat myself to TN again.