New to prohormones

LG Sciences said:
Daa alone would likely make things worse. Trenavar wasn't all that good. Things like Superdrol and M1T were in a whole different league but seeing as most people on this site probably don't recall them they have no real frame of reference.

DAA isn't the same as arimistane. Fyi... I would say I have a couple of years experience on the owner of you local shop. Lol

We are here to discuss and I personally think Nolvadex is over kill for most pct.
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You are delusional. DAA and arimistane aren't the same thing and you should quit giving advice on PCT my man, because you're gonna persuade some young kid to take an over the counter PCT and he's gonna mess himself up for life possibly.
 
LG Sciences said:
Daa alone would likely make things worse. Trenavar wasn't all that good. Things like Superdrol and M1T were in a whole different league but seeing as most people on this site probably don't recall them they have no real frame of reference.

DAA isn't the same as arimistane. Fyi... I would say I have a couple of years experience on the owner of you local shop. Lol

We are here to discuss and I personally think Nolvadex is over kill for most pct.
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I wish we could dislike posts to detract from a users rep.
Reading your posts makes me never want to purchase LG Sciences products. Other board sponsors are happy to provide research references but you are giving nothing more than your opinion. This is why so many people who have used PHs have had a longer harder road to recovery after their cycles, because of people like you.
 
dave39 said:
I wish we could dislike posts to detract from a users rep.
Reading your posts makes me never want to purchase LG Sciences products. Other board sponsors are happy to provide research references but you are giving nothing more than your opinion. This is why so many people who have used PHs have had a longer harder road to recovery after their cycles, because of people like you.
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You can negative rep someone haha.
 
LG Sciences said:
Daa alone would likely make things worse. Trenavar wasn't all that good. Things like Superdrol and M1T were in a whole different league but seeing as most people on this site probably don't recall them they have no real frame of reference.

DAA isn't the same as arimistane. Fyi... I would say I have a couple of years experience on the owner of you local shop. Lol

We are here to discuss and I personally think Nolvadex is over kill for most pct.
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I really hope that you don't believe yourself when you say over the counter pct will suffice because that's the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. The guy that started this thread said he's new to PH's and I hope he doesn't take your garbage advice because he's going to hurt himself. He needs Nolvadex or Clomid, bottom line no questions asked.
 
That's my opinion and I have no issues with my beliefs. Of course everyone turns to drugs because drugs seem harmless but in fact they are not.
 
You believe that inaccurate dosed Nolvadex from a research chem company settled on the bottom of the bottle is a good way to administer PCT? Sorry I disagree ...
 
LG Sciences said:
That's my opinion and I have no issues with my beliefs. Of course everyone turns to drugs because drugs seem harmless but in fact they are not.
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If that's your opinion then you wouldn't do any anabolic compounds so you wouldn't have to worry about PCT anyway. So I'm not seeing your point.
 
LG Sciences said:
You believe that inaccurate dosed Nolvadex from a research chem company settled on the bottom of the bottle is a good way to administer PCT? Sorry I disagree ...
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Lol, shake it up or order from a reputable company.
 
LG Sciences said:
You believe that inaccurate dosed Nolvadex from a research chem company settled on the bottom of the bottle is a good way to administer PCT? Sorry I disagree ...
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If it's your opinion then keep it to yourself because it's wrong. You can do whatever you want in your PCT but I'm still gonna use nolvadex because I'm not retarded.
 
LG Sciences said:
Daa alone would likely make things worse. Trenavar wasn't all that good. Things like Superdrol and M1T were in a whole different league but seeing as most people on this site probably don't recall them they have no real frame of reference.

DAA isn't the same as arimistane. Fyi... I would say I have a couple of years experience on the owner of you local shop. Lol

We are here to discuss and I personally think Nolvadex is over kill for most pct.
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Superdrol and M1T were the beginning of the end. The time period from about 2002-late 2004 was when the real ph and ds products were around. There wasn't really anything too harsh back then and it was before the liver toxic methyl products ruined everything. You know back when you could go on and actually feel great?. Now.....
 
T-Bone said:
I'm gonna guess this and that other thread are gonna be locked or deleted in the near future.
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Nah..I like seeing people who've learned everything they know within the last 6 months call someone who has been doing this for over 15 years they are delusional. Its sort of funny.
 
Admin said:
Nah..I like seeing people who've learned everything they know within the last 6 months call someone who has been doing this for over 15 years they are delusional. Its sort of funny.
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Are you referring to me calling that LG Sciences rep delusional?
 
Jacob24 said:
Are you referring to me calling that LG Sciences rep delusional?
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What do you think? The fact you say trenavar is an "old" ph is sort of funny as well.
 
Admin said:
What do you think? The fact you say trenavar is an "old" ph is sort of funny as well.
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I meant trenavar is pretty much a thing of the past because it's banned now. And what do you mean 6 months? I've been in the bodybuilding game for since I was 15 and I'm 28. Telling people to use an over the counter PCT is ****ing delusional? Can you not see that? Why would any of those bull**** herbal remedies help you recover after a harsh cycle? I mean come on that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
 
T-Bone said:
I like popcorn. Only thing I don't like about it is those damn kernels get stuck in my teeth.
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Learned to hate it when I had braces, but corn on the cob was just the most sinister of evils
 
Jacob24 said:
I meant trenavar is pretty much a thing of the past because it's banned now. And what do you mean 6 months? I've been in the bodybuilding game for since I was 15 and I'm 28. Telling people to use an over the counter PCT is ****ing delusional? Can you not see that? Why would any of those bull**** herbal remedies help you recover after a harsh cycle? I mean come on that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
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Because bb'ers of the 70's and 80's recovered with ****ing nothing off of pharmaceutical grade steroids, thats why. Its people like you who don't know WTF they are talking about and with very little experience that should STFU.

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Right Ben?
 
Admin said:
Because bb'ers of the 70's and 80's recovered with ****ing nothing off of pharmaceutical grade steroids, thats why. Its people like you who don't know WTF they are talking about and with very little experience that should STFU.

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Right Ben?
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Gonna play devils advocate here..

That was 30/40 years ago, pct has evolved into using certain drugs that can help with restarting hpta and preventing estrogen rebound. I don't think you can really compare some random fruit or berry extract to something like clomid and exemestane for post cycle therapy use.
 
Matthandyo said:
Gonna play devils advocate here..

That was 30/40 years ago, pct has evolved into using certain drugs that can help with restarting hpta and preventing estrogen rebound. I don't think you can really compare some random fruit or berry extract to something like clomid and exemestane for post cycle therapy use.
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Admin has said that people recovered without PCT in general, so ripping a guy apart for believing that herbal OTC PCT is good enough seems unreasonable (because essentially in the past, "no PCT" was ok). I'm not really on either side of the debate because I'm here learning, but I think people were a little harsh on the LG rep.
 
Matthandyo said:
Gonna play devils advocate here..

That was 30/40 years ago, pct has evolved into using certain drugs that can help with restarting hpta and preventing estrogen rebound. I don't think you can really compare some random fruit or berry extract to something like clomid and exemestane for post cycle therapy use.
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Really? Who evolved it? Because last time I checked there isn't a ton of research on getting gym bro's to maintain muscle after a steroid cycle. I don't think its quite high on the funding list in terms of research papers. I've seen people been shutdown for years taking everything under the sun to recover. I've seen guys rebound on literally nothing. I've seen guy's use SERMS, AI's, OTC PCT, etc...all with blood work so this idea that there has been some sort of evolution and template for how everyone should respond, is simply BS. I've seen guys not recover from months of HCG injections. I've seen guys post bloodwork recovering with a simple OCT supplement. Its all over the map.

You're not playing devils advocate at all. You are just repeating what is popular at this point in time.
 
Matthandyo said:
Gonna play devils advocate here..

That was 30/40 years ago, pct has evolved into using certain drugs that can help with restarting hpta and preventing estrogen rebound. I don't think you can really compare some random fruit or berry extract to something like clomid and exemestane for post cycle therapy use.
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There are also very powerful extracts/herbs out there. Look at things like poppy and arsenic - 100% natural and powerful to do a lot of good or bad to the human body.
 
And another point, look at the guys physiques today and tell me they know more about it. The literally get there by taking 4-5x the amounts they did years ago and not only do they look like ****, they are dropping dead at a record pace. And thats evolving?
 
Admin said:
Really? Who evolved it? Because last time I checked there isn't a ton of research on getting gym bro's to maintain muscle after a steroid cycle. I don't think its quite high on the funding list in terms of research papers. I've seen people been shutdown for years taking everything under the sun to recover. I've seen guys rebound on literally nothing. I've seen guy's use SERMS, AI's, OTC PCT, etc...all with blood work so this idea that there has been some sort of evolution and template for how everyone should respond, is simply BS. I've seen guys not recover from months of HCG injections. I've seen guys post bloodwork recovering with a simple OCT supplement. Its all over the map.

You're not playing devils advocate at all. You are just repeating what is popular at this point in time.
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Do you believe that people taking nolva/clomid/hcg is a phase and only popular now?
You've been doing this a lot longer than I have and I'm sure you've seen the trends come and go.
 
Bigdumogre said:
There are also very powerful extracts/herbs out there. Look at things like poppy and arsenic - 100% natural and powerful to do a lot of good or bad to the human body.
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True, but I don't see anyone using arsenic anytime some to try and prevent gyno.
 
Matthandyo said:
Do you believe that people taking nolva/clomid/hcg is a phase and only popular now?
You've been doing this a lot longer than I have and I'm sure you've seen the trends come and go.
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No, I think people will spend any amount of money on the idea that they will "keep their gains". And for many, it does work. I have no problem with people doing it. I have a problem with calling others delusional for saying there are other ways.

Clomid was the choice 10 years ago, then Nolva, then you NEEDED HCG. Then OTC's became big and blood work showed some recovered just fine. As I said, its all over the map. There is no one way.
 
PCT needs to be determined by many things. No such thing as "you have to use nolva." Hormone use, dose, length of cycle, previous cycles, etc. Many of these prohormone DHEA products ran in short cycles are probably not that suppressive and would be fine with PCT's that LG had described. To say you need Nolva for everything shows how inexperienced you really are.
 
Admin said:
No, I think people will spend any amount of money on the idea that they will "keep their gains". And for many, it does work. I have no problem with people doing it. I have a problem with calling others delusional for saying there are other ways.

Clomid was the choice 10 years ago, then Nolva, then you NEEDED HCG. Then OTC's became big and blood work showed some recovered just fine. As I said, its all over the map. There is no one way.
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Do you believe that it's possible that a "blend of herbals and DAA" would be a better option for preventing on cycle estrogen issues than say exemestane or nolva?

Idk, I would just rather lean on the side of caution and if I have to spend some extra money so be it. No one has ever said that cycling is cheap.
 
Matthandyo said:
Do you believe that it's possible that a "blend of herbals and DAA" would be a better option for preventing on cycle estrogen issues than say exemestane or nolva?
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What do you mean on cycle issues? The argument from what I've read is recovery...post cycle.

Idk, I would just rather lean on the side of caution and if I have to spend some extra money so be it. No one has ever said that cycling is cheap.
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I understand but also laugh a little considering what people are taking then use the word "caution" in the same sentence.
 
Admin said:
What do you mean on cycle issues? The argument from what I've read is recovery...post cycle.



I understand but also laugh a little considering what people are taking then use the word "caution" in the same sentence.
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Couldn't the same be applied to on cycle estrogen issues? Let's say one is ending a cycle and they start noticing estrogen issues. Would you say that they could go with either a blend of herbals or exemestane and the chances of the issue being fixed by the herbals would be equal to the chance that it would be fixed by exemestane?


Good point, should have seen that one coming.
 
It's all good. I know what I am getting myself into. :) The great thing about AM is the spirited debates and differences of opinions on here. This board is great for all of the dynamics on here.
 
truth is we all have the right to voice our opinions without having to insult each other. I come on this board to learn and truth is everyone is different so you need to try things for yourself.
 
Matthandyo said:
Couldn't the same be applied to on cycle estrogen issues? Let's say one is ending a cycle and they start noticing estrogen issues. Would you say that they could go with either a blend of herbals or exemestane and the chances of the issue being fixed by the herbals would be equal to the chance that it would be fixed by exemestane?
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How would they know they are experience estrogen issues?
 
Admin said:
Because bb'ers of the 70's and 80's recovered with ****ing nothing off of pharmaceutical grade steroids, thats why.
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They were also on cycle just about year round. Many of them were on more "reasonable doses", compared to today's stacks, and a lot of the old timers just got in, and got out of the steroid game. They didn't stick around for years and years using these harsh compounds for the majority of their lives (that is why some of them are still alive today).

At the end of the day every time a person uses a drug they roll the dice regarding what their results and side effects will be, and how they will recover.

Everyone is different and will recover in a different way, with that said I would personally not trust my recovery to OTC only, but there are definitely some otc products available that seem to assist in recovery.

Most doctors don't study effects of these drugs outside of the "medical norms" regarding usage... anything that anyone says on here or any other steroid type forum should be taken with a grain of salt. There is no set in stone "do's and dont's" of steroid use at a level that is outside of the medical norm. Using steroids for bodybuilding purposes is mostly outside of the medical norm when it comes to purpose, dosage, recovery, etc.
 
Admin said:
How would they know they are experience estrogen issues?
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Let's say they begin holding water very easily, or even get blood work that show estrogen issues.

Would you say using a blend of herbal supplements would be the equivalent to using something like exemestane to fix the issue.
 
dave39 said:
They were also on cycle just about year round. Many of them were on more "reasonable doses", compared to today's stacks, and a lot of the old timers just got in, and got out of the steroid game. They didn't stick around for years and years using these harsh compounds for the majority of their lives (that is why some of them are still alive today).
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No they weren't. They actually were on mostly pre contest and the amounts they were using were smaller because they were straight from the pharmacy, since it was legal, not the watered down underground 50mg bull**** dbol tabs you get these days.
 
Matthandyo said:
Let's say they begin holding water very easily, or even get blood work that show estrogen issues.

Would you say using a blend of herbal supplements would be the equivalent to using something like exemestane to fix the issue.
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Chemical compounds designed for a purpose will almost always be superior to a herbal supplement. With that said, it doesn't mean that it is safer to use, or that the herbal supplement would not work; it might just take longer to work, or it might not do anything and your body may recover on its own.
Again, it's just a roll of the dice. Experienced users have a better idea of how their body will react to certain compounds or supplements because they have prior experience with them... but that does not mean that the experienced user and the inexperienced user will have the same results. Also, the experienced user can also experience different results with different uses of the same compound or supplement.

Maybe taking two tylenol worked great the first migraine but did nothing to help the second.
 
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