Donald Trump running for president

Gutterpump said:
Dude, NOBODY promotes sexuality to kindergardners. WTF... you're gettin loco
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I can show you how the trend is getting there but I'm on the road, and then you have adoption which is really messed up imo.
 
ax1 said:
I can show you how the trend is getting there but I'm on the road, and then you have adoption which is really messed up imo.
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I disagree that anyone is going to start promoting sex to preschoolers, this just won't happen for obvious reasons. But I agree that adoption is a bit strange.
 
Gutterpump said:
I am religious.

What goes on between two consenting adults behind their doors, is their business.

Nothing ever good came out of mixing religion and politics. And you sure as hell should believe that most ultra fundamentalist Christians here want to force their beliefs on everyone, making their beliefs everyone's business.

Big difference here.
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religion is nothing more than a belief system. you should not label people, that makes you a bigot!!!
 
In talking about the issuing marriage licenses (Kim Davis) against religious beliefs, how do you guys view this?

Is it her fault for staying at a job that has to perform this new task?

Should she not be aware that any law can be changed or passed at any time that will compromise her beliefs?

In taking a position like this, do you not have to either accept it or put your beliefs aside?

In searching for some legal stuff regarding this, I came across an article of 2 Muslim truck drivers who were fired for not doing their job of delivering alcohol based on it being against their religion. They were then awarded some amount of money in a law-suit.

Totally not ok with this. Just as I'm not ok with Davis not doing her job. Employers expect one thing, that employees do their duties. No, they can't be fired or discriminated against for their beliefs. But if those beliefs prevent the job from being done, shouldn't the employer reserve the right to terminate the relationship?

Hell, I'm in the Aerospace industry. I came into the company I'm currently at because I had lots of Aerospace experience, along with other manufacturing/machine shop experience. You guys know by now my stance on guns (not anti-gun, just think there's too many in too many hands, and wrong hands). Well come to find out after I'm hired that this company also produces a shiit-load of assault rifle parts on top of the aerospace stuff!!! Gun parts are as precision made as satellite parts. Almost. But I had to put my personal feelings aside or quit. Period. I am now the Quality Manager at the place and have close relationships with a couple of these AR-15 producing gun companies. I mean, if I didn't do it someone else would. Right?
 
If I said, No, I'm not helping manufacture these weapons.

They would fire me. No questions asked. Why aren't my very passionate personal values as important as someone's "religious" beliefs?
 
thebigt said:
religion is nothing more than a belief system. you should not label people, that makes you a bigot!!!
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I haven't labelled anyone, and I have no idea what you are talking about, so I'm assuming this is a troll post. Religions are either made up of fundamentalist groups, or not. That's not a label, it is what it is.
 
Dma378 said:
In talking about the issuing marriage licenses (Kim Davis) against religious beliefs, how do you guys view this?

Is it her fault for staying at a job that has to perform this new task?

Should she not be aware that any law can be changed or passed at any time that will compromise her beliefs?

In taking a position like this, do you not have to either accept it or put your beliefs aside?

In searching for some legal stuff regarding this, I came across an article of 2 Muslim truck drivers who were fired for not doing their job of delivering alcohol based on it being against their religion. They were then awarded some amount of money in a law-suit.

Totally not ok with this. Just as I'm not ok with Davis not doing her job. Employers expect one thing, that employees do their duties. No, they can't be fired or discriminated against for their beliefs. But if those beliefs prevent the job from being done, shouldn't the employer reserve the right to terminate the relationship?

Hell, I'm in the Aerospace industry. I came into the company I'm currently at because I had lots of Aerospace experience, along with other manufacturing/machine shop experience. You guys know by now my stance on guns (not anti-gun, just think there's too many in too many hands, and wrong hands). Well come to find out after I'm hired that this company also produces a shiit-load of assault rifle parts on top of the aerospace stuff!!! Gun parts are as precision made as satellite parts. Almost. But I had to put my personal feelings aside or quit. Period. I am now the Quality Manager at the place and have close relationships with a couple of these AR-15 producing gun companies. I mean, if I didn't do it someone else would. Right?
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I agree with you here. Well articulated points.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dma378 again."
 
Dma378 said:
If I said, No, I'm not helping manufacture these weapons.

They would fire me. No questions asked. Why aren't my very passionate personal values as important as someone's "religious" beliefs?
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my 1st AA sponsor was an old black guy named willie, he played a huge role in my sobriety and I love him like an uncle-he died a few years ago...willie taught me lots of things, but I think one of the most important was...'you always have a choice, they just might not be good choices, but you always get to choose'.

the important question to ask is was kim davis willing to be fired and face possible jail time for her belief?

are you?
 
Gutterpump said:
I haven't labelled anyone, and I have no idea what you are talking about, so I'm assuming this is a troll post. Religions are either made up of fundamentalist groups, or not. That's not a label, it is what it is.
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I want to know what beliefs you believe in to consider yourself religious? 1st you say you are catholic, then you say you are religious but you do not miss any opportunity to bash both organized religion and those who believe in the TEACHINGS of THE BIBLE.
 
thebigt said:
my 1st AA sponsor was an old black guy named willie, he played a huge role in my sobriety and I love him like an uncle-he died a few years ago...willie taught me lots of things, but I think one of the most important was...'you always have a choice, they just might not be good choices, but you always get to choose'.

the important question to ask is was kim davis willing to be fired and face possible jail time for her belief?

are you?
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No. Neither. Good jobs too hard to come by. At least at that time. And also at least by an ex-con. Who was/is also in recovery.
 
Dma378 said:
No. Neither. Good jobs too hard to come by. At least at that time. And also at least by an ex-con. Who was/is also in recovery.
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congrats...addiction is the devil!!! LOL:scool:
 
thebigt said:
I want to know what beliefs you believe in to consider yourself religious? 1st you say you are catholic, then you say you are religious but you do not miss any opportunity to bash both organized religion and those who believe in the TEACHINGS of THE BIBLE.
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I take everything with a grain of salt. I think for myself. I explained in here that the only reason I am Catholic is due to my upbringing, and that overall, I consider myself to be 'spiritual'. I don't believe that any one religion is superior to another (in fact, I study many religions). I love the community in the Catholic Church though. They are not fundamentalists, and they for the most part are a very tolerating bunch, not hateful, not extremists, and they absolutely believe that the Bible is filled with religious symbology, not 100% factual information. My step-father went to the Seminary to become a priest in the Catholic Church, so I know a great deal about religion and the Catholic Church, as well as the fundamentalist off-shoots of the Catholic Church. It wasn't his calling, but he's very knowledgeable for it.
 
Gutterpump said:
I take everything with a grain of salt. I think for myself. I explained in here that the only reason I am Catholic is due to my upbringing, and that overall, I consider myself to be 'spiritual'. I don't believe that any one religion is superior to another (in fact, I study many religions). I love the community in the Catholic Church though. They are not fundamentalists, and they for the most part are a very tolerating bunch, not hateful, not extremists, and they absolutely believe that the Bible is filled with religious symbology, not 100% factual information. My step-father went to the Seminary to become a priest in the Catholic Church, so I know a great deal about religion and the Catholic Church to know these things. It wasn't his calling, but he's very knowledgeable for it.
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so you are catholic in name only?

you say you are 'spiritual', but a few posts ago you said you are religious-please explain?
 
thebigt said:
is he a religious catholic?
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he studies and practices many religions, and is a very spiritual person

I don't have time to belong to more than one Church, but I've attended Pentacostal mass with friends before, Anglican, etc. I would attend Synagogue at times if I could too. I do believe in a higher power. I do not believe that we have proof that any one specific religion holds weight over another though.

I have been baptized into the Catholic Church, and for the most part I believe in their gospels though. I do not believe in all of their sacraments however.
 
Dma378 said:
Be 6 years 6 days from now.

It was definitely my devil and lived in hell with it. Good for you too man. Different stuff, but same battle.
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hey, I could go on and on about how I struggled with addiction, anyone who has been though that and is tough enough to battle on I have nothing but respect for!!!

I think that ADDICTION might be worthy of it's oWn thread!!!!
 
Gutterpump said:
he studies and practices many religions, and is a very spiritual person

I don't have time to belong to more than one Church, but I've attended Pentacostal mass with friends before, Anglican, etc. I would attend Synagogue at times if I could too. I do believe in a higher power. I do not believe that we have proof that any one specific religion holds weight over another though.

I have been baptized into the Catholic Church, and for the most part I believe in their gospels though. I do not believe in all of their sacraments however.
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SORRY, I got carried away. your personal beliefs are not my business, but I appreciate your willingness to share!!!
 
thebigt said:
I guess I am too.
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I should mention that I actually have a lot of Muslim friends too.

My ex-gf's family is actually Persian, from Iran (but not Muslim, they are Zoroastrian).

It's interesting how some far right-leaning people who I personally know here in NY condemn Iran / the middle east as being a place that needs to be annihilated, and that it is filled with barbaric people. Almost every single person in my ex's family are highly functioning and strongly contributing members of society here. Most of them are doctors, she's a lawyer. For the most part, Persians are a very tight knit group of professionals here in the US, and are very respectable, loving people. I have a lot of support for the Persian/Iranian people, but I strongly condemn their illegitimate government, as do most Persians. Anyhow, I'm venturing off-topic here haha
 
Gutterpump said:
I should mention that I actually have a lot of Muslim friends too.

My ex-gf's family is actually Persian, from Iran (but not Muslim, they are Zoroastrian).

It's interesting how some far right-leaning people who I personally know here in NY condemn Iran / the middle east as being a place that needs to be annihilated, and that it is filled with barbaric people. Almost every single person in my ex's family are highly functioning and strongly contributing members of society here. Most of them are doctors, she's a lawyer. For the most part, Persians are a very tight knit group of professionals here in the US, and are very respectable, loving people. I have a lot of support for the Persian/Iranian people, but I strongly condemn their illegitimate government, as do most Persians. Anyhow, I'm venturing off-topic here haha
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there are extremists in every country. here there and everywhere....it is the trouble makers who get all the attention, i learned this in kindergarten, lol.
 
Dma378 said:
In talking about the issuing marriage licenses (Kim Davis) against religious beliefs, how do you guys view this?

Is it her fault for staying at a job that has to perform this new task?

Should she not be aware that any law can be changed or passed at any time that will compromise her beliefs?

In taking a position like this, do you not have to either accept it or put your beliefs aside?

In searching for some legal stuff regarding this, I came across an article of 2 Muslim truck drivers who were fired for not doing their job of delivering alcohol based on it being against their religion. They were then awarded some amount of money in a law-suit.

Totally not ok with this. Just as I'm not ok with Davis not doing her job. Employers expect one thing, that employees do their duties. No, they can't be fired or discriminated against for their beliefs. But if those beliefs prevent the job from being done, shouldn't the employer reserve the right to terminate the relationship?

Hell, I'm in the Aerospace industry. I came into the company I'm currently at because I had lots of Aerospace experience, along with other manufacturing/machine shop experience. You guys know by now my stance on guns (not anti-gun, just think there's too many in too many hands, and wrong hands). Well come to find out after I'm hired that this company also produces a shiit-load of assault rifle parts on top of the aerospace stuff!!! Gun parts are as precision made as satellite parts. Almost. But I had to put my personal feelings aside or quit. Period. I am now the Quality Manager at the place and have close relationships with a couple of these AR-15 producing gun companies. I mean, if I didn't do it someone else would. Right?
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Is this it, they make great products.
 
thebigt said:
there are extremists in every country. here there and everywhere....it is the trouble makers who get all the attention, i learned this in kindergarten, lol.
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Very true! But so many people love to generalize and stigmatize. I couldn't believe these people here when I saw them talking like that! This is why I got very defensive weeks ago when someone mentioned nuke the ME or get out. I've actually heard people be serious about this!
 
Hey guys, just got back from my new gym. Not to make anyone jealous (ok maybe a lil) but check this out. I had the place to myself tonight, with brand new Pendlay bars, oly plates, wide benches, Rogue monster lite racks, and this was just on 1 floor of 3.

Keep in mind this is in the heart of NYC. I'm unbelievably stoked right now. I'm used to climbing around people.

This is a new barbell club for oly/powerlifters. Fairly underground place away from the globo gyms. Aka my new home :D

Invalid Link Removed
 
Gutterpump said:
Hey guys, just got back from my new gym. Not to make anyone jealous (ok maybe a lil) but check this out. I had the place to myself tonight, with brand new Pendlay bars, oly plates, wide benches, Rogue monster lite racks, and this was just on 1 floor of 3.

Keep in mind this is in the heart of NYC. I'm unbelievably stoked right now. I'm used to climbing around people.

This is a new barbell club for oly/powerlifters. Fairly underground place away from the globo gyms. Aka my new home :D

Invalid Link Removed
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Meh, doesn't look like they have enough elliptical machines or ab rollers. 6/10
 
Gutterpump said:
Hey guys, just got back from my new gym. Not to make anyone jealous (ok maybe a lil) but check this out. I had the place to myself tonight, with brand new Pendlay bars, oly plates, wide benches, Rogue monster lite racks, and this was just on 1 floor of 3.

Keep in mind this is in the heart of NYC. I'm unbelievably stoked right now. I'm used to climbing around people.

This is a new barbell club for oly/powerlifters. Fairly underground place away from the globo gyms. Aka my new home :D

Invalid Link Removed
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Thats in NYC must be on a yatch ?
 
youngandfree said:
Invalid Link Removed

Is this it, they make great products.
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We make this hand guard right here. They are a new customer as of 2015. Looking to take on the rest of their hand guards.
ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1450922228.057855.jpg


One of about 4 companies we make parts for.
 
Dma378 said:
In talking about the issuing marriage licenses (Kim Davis) against religious beliefs, how do you guys view this?

Is it her fault for staying at a job that has to perform this new task?

Should she not be aware that any law can be changed or passed at any time that will compromise her beliefs?

In taking a position like this, do you not have to either accept it or put your beliefs aside?

In searching for some legal stuff regarding this, I came across an article of 2 Muslim truck drivers who were fired for not doing their job of delivering alcohol based on it being against their religion. They were then awarded some amount of money in a law-suit.

Totally not ok with this. Just as I'm not ok with Davis not doing her job. Employers expect one thing, that employees do their duties. No, they can't be fired or discriminated against for their beliefs. But if those beliefs prevent the job from being done, shouldn't the employer reserve the right to terminate the relationship?

Hell, I'm in the Aerospace industry. I came into the company I'm currently at because I had lots of Aerospace experience, along with other manufacturing/machine shop experience. You guys know by now my stance on guns (not anti-gun, just think there's too many in too many hands, and wrong hands). Well come to find out after I'm hired that this company also produces a shiit-load of assault rifle parts on top of the aerospace stuff!!! Gun parts are as precision made as satellite parts. Almost. But I had to put my personal feelings aside or quit. Period. I am now the Quality Manager at the place and have close relationships with a couple of these AR-15 producing gun companies. I mean, if I didn't do it someone else would. Right?
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There is a big difference between private businesses and being a public servant who took oath of office.

The problem with Kim Davis is not her beliefs but rather bad policy. Its kind of like how they severely infringe on gun rights here in NY and then they throw war heroes in prison.

"In searching for some legal stuff regarding this, I came across an article of 2 Muslim truck drivers who were fired for not doing their job of delivering alcohol based on it being against their religion. They were then awarded some amount of money in a law-suit."

Now, if I owned a wine distribution and muslims filed a job application I would probably be sued for not hiring them based on their religion and the potential for issues with the tasks that may arise from that. Again, just bad politically correct policy it sets people up to lose.
 
Gutterpump said:
I haven't labelled anyone, and I have no idea what you are talking about, so I'm assuming this is a troll post. Religions are either made up of fundamentalist groups, or not. That's not a label, it is what it is.
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Being the social justice warrior you are your discriminating people in the same way you disliked Trump discriminating Muslims.
 
thebigt said:
there are extremists in every country. here there and everywhere....it is the trouble makers who get all the attention, i learned this in kindergarten, lol.
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Problem with the term "extremists" these days is that its thrown around too often when ever people have a different set of belief system or alternative opinion.
 
what I find ironic is that jews, muslims, and Christians all worship the SAME GOD of Abraham.
 
Gutterpump said:
It's interesting how some far right-leaning people who I personally know here in NY condemn Iran / the middle east as being a place that needs to be annihilated, and that it is filled with barbaric people. Almost every single person in my ex's family are highly functioning and strongly contributing members of society here. Most of them are doctors, she's a lawyer. For the most part, Persians are a very tight knit group of professionals here in the US, and are very respectable, loving people. I have a lot of support for the Persian/Iranian people, but I strongly condemn their illegitimate government, as do most Persians. Anyhow, I'm venturing off-topic here haha
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Thats because alot of people believe everything the government tells them. I dont believe Iran would ever nuke Isreal....they know if they pulled that stunt off it would be the end of Iran, they are far smarter than that and at the end of the day they have their children and families to take care of.

What government is legitimate that you know of anyways?
 
ax1 said:
Wut? When were we arguing, lol! Big difference between a debate and a argument.
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Well since I think you're off the wall to think I was discriminating against anyone, just by saying that I am not a fan of fundamentalist belief, it's just going to turn into an argument... mmmkay? Nothing to debate here. It is what it is. Certain religions are self-proclaimed fundamentalists. This is not an insult nor discrimination. I have not put down any religions, and I actually give them all a chance, as I've stated earlier. I've been to Pentacostal masses, I've been to fundamentalist Churches, I have studied many religions. The bible camp I used to attend was put on by fundamentalists. I take pride in learning several perspectives before forming my own opinion on anything, but I certainly haven't insulted them. I may have once when I first posted in this thread, but I apologized quickly for that as it was a bit impulsive.
 
Gutterpump said:
Well since I think you're off the wall to think I was discriminating against anyone, just by saying that I am not a fan of fundamentalist belief, it's just going to turn into an argument... mmmkay? Nothing to debate here. It is what it is. Certain religions are self-proclaimed fundamentalists. This is not an insult nor discrimination. I have not put down any religions, and I actually give them all a chance, as I've stated earlier. I've been to Pentacostal masses, I've been to fundamentalist Churches, I have studied many religions. The bible camp I used to attend was put on by fundamentalists. I take pride in learning several perspectives before forming my own opinion on anything, but I certainly haven't insulted them. I may have once when I first posted in this thread, but I apologized quickly for that as it was a bit impulsive.
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How about judging people individually for a change rather than groups? Why do you judge on groups so much? People think they belong to groups, even if they think they are fundamentalists so what? It doesnt mean anything.
 
ax1 said:
Thats because alot of people believe everything the government tells them. I dont believe Iran would ever nuke Isreal....they know if they pulled that stunt off it would be the end of Iran, they are far smarter than that and at the end of the day they have their children and families to take care of.

What government is legitimate that you know of anyways?
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I have not once talked about Iran nuking Israel. Not sure why you bring this up, it's not part of our discussion.

Do you know anything about Persian culture, or the elections in Iran? The opposition party was FAR ahead in polls, but ended up far behind come election day. There was mass unrest, mass killing/suppression. The current government forced their way in with assault rifles and blunt force. But perhaps this is all a lie in your eyes, as you don't seem to believe anything or anyone.

I think you are a good person, but I honestly think you don't know as much as you lead people to believe now, and that you just talk for the sake of talking, and for hearing your own repeated opinions over and over. This is certainly not a constructive debate when you talk how you are.
 
Gutterpump said:
I have not once talked about Iran nuking Israel. Not sure why you bring this up, it's not part of our discussion.

Do you know anything about Persian culture, or the elections in Iran? The opposition party was FAR ahead in polls, but ended up far behind come election day. There was mass unrest, mass killing/suppression. The current government forced their way in with assault rifles and blunt force. But perhaps this is all a lie in your eyes, as you don't seem to believe anything or anyone.

I think you are a good person, but I honestly think you don't know as much as you lead people to believe now, and that you just talk for the sake of talking, and for hearing your own repeated opinions over and over. This is certainly not a constructive debate when you talk how you are.
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I was giving you props for your post on how "some far right-leaning people who I personally know here in NY condemn Iran"

Thats what some of these people bring up all the time, nuking Isreal etc.....

I know about the election in Iran, but I dont know what to believe and I dont trust what those protesters say either when it comes to polls so I just leave it as I dont have an opinion on it.

I dont know much of anything at all its ok, and I dont want people to believe anything I ever say but to only think about it and make their own opinion and I expect the same for you. I challenge yes, and I think its fun but more importantly make everyone smarter at the end of the day. So dont make it about me, make it about the issues.

Have a good night!
 
ax1 said:
Have a good night!
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Merry Christmas man. Don't get offended if I choose not to debate with you anymore. It's impossible to debate with someone who's opinions border on paranoia and mistrust of pretty much everyone and everything. It's been next to impossible to get you to see other perspectives, you only want to see your own.
 
Gutterpump said:
Merry Christmas man. Don't get offended if I choose not to debate with you anymore. It's impossible to debate with someone who's opinions border on paranoia and mistrust of pretty much everyone and everything. It's been next to impossible to get you to see other perspectives, you only want to see your own.
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Stop labeling me with that false crap about me.

I don't call you a paranoid schizophrenic fear mongerer because you want to take everyone's guns away, ignorant extremist left winging socialist liberal and so forth.

You take this stuff too personal. Chill out lol
 
ax1 said:
Thats because alot of people believe everything the government tells them. I dont believe Iran would ever nuke Isreal....they know if they pulled that stunt off it would be the end of Iran, they are far smarter than that and at the end of the day they have their children and families to take care of.

What government is legitimate that you know of anyways?
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I've got a pool going and I say Iran lobs a missile, doesn't have to be a nuke, or a large scale attack on Israel before our next inauguration day. Provided we have an election. And the attack comes in from the north. Remember Iran funds Hezbollah and Hamas, so even if it doesn't come from Tehran, they can initiate a proxy attack, like they've already done.
 
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