2016

Gutterpump said:
Pope Francis Endorses Bernie Sanders for President (and so do I).

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Not a bad endorsement!
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If you support the Roman Catholic Church that is. For others its a big negative. The Pope has been pushing idea's such as blaming capitalism for the problems, an extreme view on "climate change" and calling for a new global goverment. Of course, then he is a socialist which scares the crap out of me.There is alot of controversy around him with the internals of the Church and so on, but thats a huge discussion.

Anyways, just saying its only a big endorsement for those that actually support Pope and says the opposite for alot of other people as well.
 
Gutterpump said:
He's been the best, most forward thinking & progressive Pope the Church has ever had imo
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Is he even a catholic or a christian? He stated a short while ago that Jesus's life failed on the cross, and the cross was a failure. I mean, I thought Jesus on the cross was victory?

So you think calling out for globalization, global governance and the nwo is going to solve the problems he is speaking of? Sounds like he wants to empower the very people causing all of this. Not that Im questioning his intent, he may have a good heart and mean well, I dunno but this is extremely naive and backward thinking. Look how the UN has solved all the problems in the middle east for example, the policies have been an absolute catastrophe and costs trillions.

Earth will turn into the Hunger Games.
 
I have never heard him say anything about Jesus or the cross being a failure? That's a bit of a crazy claim about the Pope, saying that he's not a Catholic or even a Christian. I don't believe it nor the source you got it from, because it's 100% not from his mouth. No Catholic would ever say this.

I am almost 100% certain that another denomination is using a poor translation/semantics and taking it out of context as a means to bash the Catholic church, as usual. He has gained a lot of hate from the ultra-conservative because of his modern progressive views.

Fact remains he is the most forward thinking, humanitarian, progressive & modern Pope we've ever had. Can't really argue that.
 
Gutterpump said:
I have never heard him say anything about Jesus or the cross being a failure? That's a bit of a crazy claim about the Pope, saying that he's not a Catholic or even a Christian. I don't believe it nor the source you got it from, because it's 100% not from his mouth. No Catholic would ever say this.

I am almost 100% certain that another denomination is using a poor translation/semantics and taking it out of context as a means to bash the Catholic church, as usual. He has gained a lot of hate from the ultra-conservative because of his modern progressive views.

Fact remains he is the most forward thinking, humanitarian, progressive & modern Pope we've ever had. Can't really argue that.
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Ok, I dont need a source, he said it out of his own mouth. I wouldnt make that up.

As someone who was christian as a kid and went to christian school he is agaisnt the bible.

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Gutterpump said:
I am almost 100% certain that another denomination is using a poor translation/semantics and taking it out of context as a means to bash the Catholic church, as usual. He has gained a lot of hate from the ultra-conservative because of his modern progressive views.
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I could totally forget about what happened in the past with the Church and judge him myself. The dude if his intent is good, he is really naive when it comes to politics.

Having a global government is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Capitalism is not the root of all evil. The very people he want to empower to rule the one world goverment are the problem. If he was smart he would call out the Federal Reserve to revert to a gold and silver standard and stop printing money out of thin air.

Does he have any real solutions to "climate change" for example? Is he a scientist? And doesnt he know there are trillions and trillions of dollars to be made in the "solution?" Al Gore has millions invested of his own money, the richest man in China is no longer Jack Ma, its some guy involved with solar...Having global taxes on carbon aint gonna change anything, its going to starve third world countries and cause famine. The pope is going to make the richest people even richer and suppress the middle class and poor through heavy taxes and regulation.

He should just stick to his religion although I support his freedom of speech. I do not support spending millions of dollars of our tax dollars to allow him the platform here in this country when he can just either pay for it himself or just post a youtube video for free.

Gutterpump said:
Fact remains he is the most forward thinking, humanitarian, progressive & modern Pope we've ever had. Can't really argue that.
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Haha...So many people say that about Obama too :)
 
I've just read his entire homily where that's taken from and it's very obvious what his message was. You have, like all of the other 'outrage mongers' aka Catholic haters, have omitted a very important qualifier in what the pope said, in order to twist his words:

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus . . . and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross.
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He's clearly stating that some things that we may do in life, may not bear fruit in a humanly physical sense, but in a spiritual one. He's clearly talking about selfless acts. THIS IS SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS. Wow lol
 
Gutterpump said:
I've just read his entire homily where that's taken from and it's very obvious what his message was. You have, like all of the other 'outrage mongers' aka Catholic haters, have omitted a very important qualifier in what the pope said, in order to twist his words:



He's clearly stating that some things that we may do in life, may not bear fruit in a humanly physical sense, but in a spiritual one. He's clearly talking about selfless acts. THIS IS SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS. Wow lol
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His life humanly speaking was victory on the cross, not a failure. That is so blatantly obvious, wow...we never would have had the resurrection 3 days later. If it wasnt for his victory on the cross Christianity would not exist.
 
Gutterpump said:
Fact remains he is the most forward thinking, humanitarian, progressive & modern Pope we've ever had. Can't really argue that.
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Humanitarianism doesnt equate to logical public policy and sound economic policy.
 
bighulksmash said:
Gutter u got it !
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Too many haters / conspiracy theorists out there!! The websites claiming that what the pope said is an outrage, all call him an instrument of Satan! Tin foil hat alert!! So ridiculous and manipulative. You don't need to be educated at the seminary, or be a theologian to understand what he said.
 
Jesus wasn't a failure, coming from a CATHOLIC upbringing. .. idk what to say except im going to make some pop corn and watch this one ...
 
bighulksmash said:
Jesus wasn't a failure, coming from a CATHOLIC upbringing. .. idk what to say except im going to make some pop corn and watch this one ...
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The pope said he failed on the cross. I never said that, from a christian perspective you would never say he failed at the cross.
 
ax1 said:
The pope said he failed on the cross. I never said that, from a christian perspective you would never say he failed at the cross.
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You keep omitting the most important part of his words, and I don't feel the need to discuss this very cut and dry topic anymore but:

It’s only by omitting or ignoring or misunderstanding this qualifier "“humanly speaking” that one could take offense at the pope’s remark.

This qualifier tells the listener (or reader) that the statement is only an apparent, not an actual, description of affairs.

Pope Francis means that from a superficial, human point of view, Jesus’ death might look like he was a failure, but, from God’s perspective, this was not so.
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In Jesus’ day, people expected the Messiah to lead a triumphant rebellion against the Romans, restore political independence to Israel, and reign in Jerusalem as a Davidic king.

Jesus didn’t do any of those things.

Instead, the Romans killed him, and they did so in a particularly painful and humiliating way. His followers were scattered and took to meeting in secret after his crucifixion.

From the perspective of most people of the day, based on their expectations of what the Messiah would do, he looked like a failed political revolutionary.
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From God’s perspective, Jesus did exactly what he was supposed to.

He was never meant to lead a political rebellion against the Romans. He expressly told the Roman governor, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36).

Instead, he fulfilled God’s plan precisely by dying on the cross.

And, while his followers may have been in disarray and fear for a time, they eventually led a massive movement that converted the Roman Empire to the Christian Faith.

Even in the first generation of that process, the early Christians could be described as having “turned the world upside down” (Acts 17:6).

While, from a human perspective, Jesus and his movement looked like failures at the moment he was killed, from God’s perspective, Jesus was a success, and in time this would be revealed by the fruit his movement bore.
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Gutterpump said:
Too many haters / conspiracy theorists out there!! The websites claiming that what the pope said is an outrage, all call him an instrument of Satan! Tin foil hat alert!! So ridiculous and manipulative. You don't need to be educated at the seminary, or be a theologian to understand what he said.
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Oh great...start throwing around the conspiracy theory label around and tin foil expressions, whats next your gonna bring the moon landing was fake, santa clause killed Lincoln and that how I think the Easter bunny is real? lol, your a trip my friend.

All religion should be debated and analyzed even within the sects themselves....The Pope is human, he should always be questioned too which can be done more respectfully than I may myself. Dogmatism is not forward thinking, its stalling and ignorance.
 
ax1 said:
Oh great...start throwing around the conspiracy theory label around and tin foil expressions, whats next your gonna bring the moon landing was fake, santa clause killed Lincoln and that how I think the Easter bunny is real? lol, your a trip my friend.

All religion should be debated and analyzed even withing the sects themselves....dogmatism is not forward thinking.
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I'm talking about these websites that claim the pope is an instrument of Satan! That's crazy talk!
 
ax1 said:
Dogmatism is not forward thinking, its stalling and ignorance.
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I completely agree with you here. But you can't deny that he's the most modern & progressive pope there's ever been, and he's been doing a great job of bringing the Catholic church into the present day. Anyhow, I simply stated that he's been our best pope yet, and that he's endorsed Bernie Sanders. I didn't say he's running for President nor that these two are identical beings politically? I just thought it was a pretty hefty endorsement to get, which is pretty undeniable. Whether or not you like him, the pope is a very large global figure.
 
Gutterpump said:
Pope Francis Endorses Bernie Sanders for President (and so do I).

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Not a bad endorsement!
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the pope carries a lot of clout with latino voters, but for the most part they will vote democratic anyway. at least Bernie is a much better MAN than Hillary.
 
Gutterpump said:
I completely agree with you here. But you can't deny that he's the most modern & progressive pope there's ever been, and he's been doing a great job of bringing the Catholic church into the present day. Anyhow, I simply stated that he's been our best pope yet, and that he's endorsed Bernie Sanders. I didn't say he's running for President nor that these two are identical beings politically? I just thought it was a pretty hefty endorsement to get, which is pretty undeniable. Whether or not you like him, the pope is a very large global figure.
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In all honestly I think the opposite but I will just respect that he is align with your politics. I agree is different but just respectfully not my cup of tea.

He is a large global figure and his endorsement should influence some support for Bernie. And Ill tell you this...Id rather chop my arm off than have Clinton topple Bernie.

So, just for your opinion....what if the Pope instead of saying "we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross,” Pope Francis said."

What if he ended like this.... What if he pointed his finger to the audience and told them "you all humanly and spiritually failed Jesus who sacrificed for us on the cross"

Now that would be damn powerful, dont you think? Maybe Im wrong its ok.
 
Gutterpump said:
I'm talking about these websites that claim the pope is an instrument of Satan! That's crazy talk!
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And yea yea...I got that. Just felt like you were referencing that for me, its all good though we have to have some fun inside these deep talks time to time.

People are comparing him to the end of times, I mean I slap my face too sometimes when I see this stuff.
 
ax1 said:
And yea yea...I got that. Just felt like you were referencing that for me, its all good though we have to have some fun inside these deep talks time to time.

People are comparing him to the end of times, I mean I slap my face too sometimes when I see this stuff.
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You're pretty respectful though even on things we may disagree with. Sorry if you took that the wrong way!
 
ax1 said:
In all honestly I think the opposite but I will just respect that he is align with your politics. I agree is different but just respectfully not my cup of tea.

He is a large global figure and his endorsement should influence some support for Bernie. And Ill tell you this...Id rather chop my arm off than have Clinton topple Bernie.

So, just for your opinion....what if the Pope instead of saying "we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross,” Pope Francis said."

What if he ended like this.... What if he pointed his finger to the audience and told them "you all humanly and spiritually failed Jesus who sacrificed for us on the cross"

Now that would be damn powerful, dont you think? Maybe Im wrong its ok.
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Hillary would be the worst of all evils. the thought of that woman president scares me!!!
 
Gutterpump said:
You're pretty respectful though even on things we may disagree with. Sorry if you took that the wrong way!
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No need for sorry....you wouldnt believe some of the stuff Ive encountered here, I am the "conspiracy" guy on the boards but thats what I decided to take upon myself with alot of controversial topics so its all good.

thebigt said:
Hillary would be the worst of all evils. the thought of that woman president scares me!!!
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If she wins its going to be a sexism and feminism war. Just like it was with Obama, if you disagree with his foreign policy or health care plan your a racist. Now everybody hates women!

I cant believe Im going to say this, but if I had a gun to my head and had a choice of two to vote for I might even pick Palin over Clinton. Now this is the end of times!
 
Conspiracy theories are interesting , I've been opened minded to it for over 20 yrs.

C I A Teaches on first day ... "NOTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS" interpret it how you must . In my line of work I've seen it never mind heard it.
 
bighulksmash said:
Conspiracy theories are interesting , I've been opened minded to it for over 20 yrs.

C I A Teaches on first day ... "NOTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS" interpret it how you must . In my line of work I've seen it never mind heard it.
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They created the term "conspiracy theory" after the JFK assassination in order to simply sway people away from having a real debate by discrediting those who have the ability to independently critically think.
 
ax1 said:
They created the term "conspiracy theory" after the JFK assassination in order to simply sway people away from having a real debate by discrediting those who have the ability to independently critically think.
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Here is a perfect example on how government wants to do all the thinking for you when about 2 years ago when Fuehrer Obama gave a speech to Ohio grads and discredit opposing thinkers.

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ax1 said:
Here is a perfect example on how government wants to do all the thinking for you when about 2 years ago when Fuehrer Obama gave a speech to Ohio grads and discredit opposing thinkers.

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Your link is not opening anything just an empty page
 
ax1 said:
Ok thanks...I put that link up just for you because of the issue you told me. Its fixed now and here it is here too. Invalid Link Removed
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Invalid Link Removed i knew about this speech since i was a kid . I never though it would come true . It has . Its a short film ax you've probably watched it. Reagan
 
bighulksmash said:
Invalid Link Removed i knew about this speech since i was a kid . I never though it would come true . It has . Its a short film ax you've probably watched it. Reagan
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Never seen that...quite powerful and truth. Its sad most politicians cant even speak (or in Obama's case read) thay way. I think last I heard Obama's speeches were just enough to cover a 5th grade level.

You know, you would think that the "leader" of the free world can actually talk to 6th grade kids and leave his teleprompters home at least. What a piece of human filth.

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Wow i almost dont buy that but then again wait yes ido ! Now searching for vids on moon and mars structures. In between. My inbox being overrun lol
 
ax1 said:
Never seen that...quite powerful and truth. Its sad most politicians cant even speak (or in Obama's case read) thay way. I think last I heard Obama's speeches were just enough to cover a 5th grade level.

You know, you would think that the "leader" of the free world can actually talk to 6th grade kids and leave his teleprompters home at least. What a piece of human filth.

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Obama looks like a cult leader...I am your messiah, kneel at my throne!!!
 
thebigt said:
Obama looks like a cult leader...I am your messiah, kneel at my throne!!!
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Yup...and the fruits of his psych ops are these brainwashed minion children who believe Obama is the lord and savior of the universe and will demand you to buy health insurance.

And yes, I post his over and over again because YES WE CAN!

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ax1 said:
Yup...and the fruits of his psych ops are these brainwashed minion children who believe Obama is the lord and savior of the universe and will demand you to buy health insurance.

And yes, I post his over and over again because YES WE CAN!

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Obama youth!!!
sound familiar?
 
Are you guys familiar at all with Prime Minister Trudeau who was just elected in Canada?
Really happy with the outcome of that election. He seems like a really great guy, very current and progressive.
The conservative PM Harper who just lost to him was pretty horrible, was almost impeached as well and caused parliament to be shutdown more than once.
 
Gutterpump said:
Are you guys familiar at all with Prime Minister Trudeau who was just elected in Canada?
Really happy with the outcome of that election. He seems like a really great guy, very current and progressive.
The conservative PM Harper who just lost to him was pretty horrible, was almost impeached as well and caused parliament to be shutdown more than once.
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his father was VERY POPULAR...but pierre was more liberal than Obama, lol....lets hope Justin turns out to be more of a centrist, but I doubt it.


harper's career sounds a lot like billy Clinton, lol.
 
Gutterpump said:
Are you guys familiar at all with Prime Minister Trudeau who was just elected in Canada?
Really happy with the outcome of that election. He seems like a really great guy, very current and progressive.
The conservative PM Harper who just lost to him was pretty horrible, was almost impeached as well and caused parliament to be shutdown more than once.
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Id most definitely not vote for either one, never ever.

Canada is so quite around the news here, which is surprising considering they are such close neighbors.
 
thebigt said:
his father was VERY POPULAR...but pierre was more liberal than Obama, lol....lets hope Justin turns out to be more of a centrist, but I doubt it.


harper career sounds a lot like billy Clinton, lol.
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The Liberal party in Canada is moderate though. Up there it lands just barely right of center, where the NDP party is the true leftist party.

Harper was no good tho lol
 
Gutterpump said:
Are you guys familiar at all with Prime Minister Trudeau who was just elected in Canada?
Really happy with the outcome of that election. He seems like a really great guy, very current and progressive.
The conservative PM Harper who just lost to him was pretty horrible, was almost impeached as well and caused parliament to be shutdown more than once.
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Some things I like about it, he wants to end airstrikes against ISIS. Lets see if he holds up to that. If his policies are full pullout of all wars that is a major plus.

Legalization of pot a plus but...should take it a step further and totally end war on drugs.
 
Gutterpump said:
The Liberal party in Canada is moderate though. Up there it lands just barely right of center, where the NDP party is the true leftist party.
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look at the history of his father pierre, he was as liberal as you can get!!!
 
Currently (and for a while now), the Liberal Party in Canada is centrist. NDP = left.

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I don't know enough about the American political system or if this would work, but I believe a 3rd "Moderate" party is needed here.
 
Gutterpump said:
Currently (and for a while now), the Liberal Party in Canada is centrist. NDP = left.

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I don't know enough about the American political system, but I believe a 3rd "Moderate" party is needed here.
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There is only 1 party, so a 2nd would be a good place to start.
 
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