DANGERDAVE and the Temple of Gainz

My take (primarily for PLing): if you compete in a federation that allows the use of knee wraps on the squat and you aren't using them, no matter what weight you squat, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Same for wrist wraps and belts. I don't typically train with much equipment (the exception being strongman event days when I do them) but when I am preparing for a meet in the near future, it would be foolish of me to not use all of the equipment in training that I would intend to use at the meet.
 
jimbuick said:
What's wrong with a belt?
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Nothing if used properly. The issue I have is that people use it to cover up weakness in form and stabilizing muscles. At that point it's actually hurting you as it promotes even further weakness
 
jimbuick said:
My take (primarily for PLing): if you compete in a federation that allows the use of knee wraps on the squat and you aren't using them, no matter what weight you squat, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Same for wrist wraps and belts. I don't typically train with much equipment (the exception being strongman event days when I do them) but when I am preparing for a meet in the near future, it would be foolish of me to not use all of the equipment in training that I would intend to use at the meet.
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Totally agree with you man. If you are allowed to wear it then why wouldn't you? Especially when training.
 
Montego1 said:
Absolutely nothing! Especially if you're getting back pumps lol.
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Boy that's the truth - I haven't really taken anything since October, but the best thing for pumps between deadlift sets was to just keep the belt cranked and maybe lay on some pvc to keep pressure on the area. Ugh.

I think Hardwork was just saying that you often see newcomers plunking down all this cash for stuff that's not nearly as important right now as just training hard consistently and trying to learn about training and basic nutrition.
 
Hyde said:
Boy that's the truth - I haven't really taken anything since October, but the best thing for pumps between deadlift sets was to just keep the belt cranked and maybe lay on some pvc to keep pressure on the area. Ugh.

I think Hardwork was just saying that you often see newcomers plunking down all this cash for stuff that's not nearly as important right now as just training hard consistently and trying to learn about training and basic nutrition.
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Thanks Hyde... That was my point.
 
JeremyNG25 said:
Lol at calling someone a noob for carrying a gym bag. I'm pretty sure knee sleeves and elbow sleeves are very appropriate for someone experiencing joint pain. I carry a gym bag with my notebook,pen, dip belt and a few other things so why does that make someone a noob? You guys worry so much about what other people are doing it makes you sound insecure. Just lift and mind your business. It's what everyone can and should do. If this stuff pisses you off so much instead of whining and having a dick size contest on some random forum why don't you say it to their face?
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"You guys worry so much about what other people are doing, it makes you sound insecure."

--- kinda like how you follow dave around posting in every one of his threads worrying about what we all think and how much sauce we all are apparently taking.....
 
hardwork25 said:
"You guys worry so much about what other people are doing, it makes you sound insecure."

--- kinda like how you follow dave around posting in every one of his threads worrying about what we all think and how much sauce we all are apparently taking.....
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Yeah his post did seem kind of trollish, didn't it? - nobody has to be here. Drugs make a HUGE difference but especially just concerning strength numbers they're not the end all be all, Look at guys like big Ray Williams - I guarantee he gets tested A LOT. Doesn't guarantee he's not using something but does guarantee he's not using IFBB pro level doses or blasting/cruising even. This squat is raw in knee SLEEVES btw:

[video=youtube;LCzN5TnW7Fw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCzN5TnW7Fw[/video]
 
Almost everyone of his posts are about drug use and how all these guys are where they are at because of drug use.

Do I think there's a lot of guys that look like douche bags wearing matching neon green everything and spending hundreds of dollars on worthless junk? Yeah, but it's not 70% of my posts.

Now back to Dave getting huge with nothing but a lot of drugs and no hard work or discipline.
 
hardwork25 said:
Almost everyone of his posts are about drug use and how all these guys are where they are at because of drug use.

Do I think there's a lot of guys that look like douche bags wearing matching neon green everything and spending hundreds of dollars on worthless junk? Yeah, but it's not 70% of my posts.

Now back to Dave getting huge with nothing but a lot of drugs and no hard work or discipline.
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Hey........neon clothing increases gym intensity and performance by 50%. It's a proven fact.
 
hardwork25 said:
"You guys worry so much about what other people are doing, it makes you sound insecure."

--- kinda like how you follow dave around posting in every one of his threads worrying about what we all think and how much sauce we all are apparently taking.....
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Haha. I was like doesn't this negative Nancy always pop up and talk sh*t or naysay on us and the gear we take? I couldn't remember and it wasn't worth my time to go back and check lol.

On a awesome note.. I ordered receptor grade IGF-1 LR3 to throw in so I don't need as much GH or Slin in this bulk. I was really trying to come up with a way to keep my Slin use down as much as possible. I see it as a necessary evil but the less I need the better. As for GH I would rather allow my budget to let me run as much as possible during my cut.
 
DangerDave said:
Haha. I was like doesn't this negative Nancy always pop up and talk sh*t or naysay on us and the gear we take? I couldn't remember and it wasn't worth my time to go back and check lol.

On a awesome note.. I ordered receptor grade IGF-1 LR3 to throw in so I don't need as much GH or Slin in this bulk. I was really trying to come up with a way to keep my Slin use down as much as possible. I see it as a necessary evil but the less I need the better. As for GH I would rather allow my budget to let me run as much as possible during my cut.
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DD, what do you make of MK 677 (Ibutamoren)? Sounds like it's got some real potential - people getting numb hands at 30mg/day and such even.

I was going to play with some and then Orbit decided to drop all grey area supps so I couldn't justify spending full market price (it's not terribly cheap at $60-70 bottle).
 
Hyde said:
DD, what do you make of MK 677 (Ibutamoren)? Sounds like it's got some real potential - people getting numb hands at 30mg/day and such even.

I was going to play with some and then Orbit decided to drop all grey area supps so I couldn't justify spending full market price (it's not terribly cheap at $60-70 bottle).
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I actually really like the research I have read on it and bought a few bottles. I'm just figuring out how I'm going to use it haha. I got them on sale when I bought a lot of my ghrp and mod-Grf. I like the idea of bringing it in during a bridge or even kicks starting my cut with it.
 
DangerDave said:
I actually really like the research I have read on it and bought a few bottles. I'm just figuring out how I'm going to use it haha. I got them on sale when I bought a lot of my ghrp and mod-Grf. I like the idea of bringing it in during a bridge or even kicks starting my cut with it.
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You think there's really much potential for increasing insulin resistance with it? I've heard people talking about running it in 3 month waves of progressing dosage (10, 20, then 30mg/night), and only taking a month or so off. I know IGF-1 can cause insulin resistance but wasn't sure how long that took to build up and cool off before another cycle.
 
Hyde said:
You think there's really much potential for increasing insulin resistance with it? I've heard people talking about running it in 3 month waves of progressing dosage (10, 20, then 30mg/night), and only taking a month or so off. I know IGF-1 can cause insulin resistance but wasn't sure how long that took to build up and cool off before another cycle.
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IGF-1 LR3 actually will cause insulin sensitivity hence the need for carbs about 45min+ after dosing. I think there is potential yes but from my research (which I'm about to refresh on) leads me to believe (and many others) that it's need for progressing doses isn't IGF1 related but rather it's the pituitary axis. Just like using peptides before bed (although relatively different pathways) over time the body will adjust to a exogenous substance forcing a pituitary pulse of GH. This pulse of GH will in turn create a better environment for IGF1 secretion, overtime the pulse weakens and the IGF1 will decrease.

The other spectrum is using peptides to create multiple pulses during the day resulting in a GH rich environment. In that environment if you spike insulin (by eating large amounts of food) your body will convert that insulin into IGF. Because it is a natural pulse there is no need to truly stop per say except in most studies constant forced pulses can lead to smaller pulses over a long duration of time.

I will refresh on the studies and we can dive into it deeper.
 
I'm very interested in MK-677. I'm picking up some Ghar1ne, which is Olympus Labs version of it. I will be running it from the end of my current cycle into PCT and hopefully indefinitely after that.. Lol it sounds awesome and I can't afford Pharma GH.

I finally started my first injectable cycle by the way and following your log has helped me a lot along the way!
 
rascal14 said:
I'm very interested in MK-677. I'm picking up some Ghar1ne, which is Olympus Labs version of it. I will be running it from the end of my current cycle into PCT and hopefully indefinitely after that.. Lol it sounds awesome and I can't afford Pharma GH.

I finally started my first injectable cycle by the way and following your log has helped me a lot along the way!
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Awesome man! Well if you got questions by all means ask away. We are just killing time in here until I start next week.
 
rascal14 said:
Does anyone know how it compares to real GH? Like 30mg is equal to 1-2 IU or anything like that?
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It's not quantifiable because it is a secretagogue and GH is the actual synthetic hormone. Mk 677 signals the pituitary almost the same way as GHRP and Modgrf would meaning your pituitary will pulse its own natural GH vices putting in exogenous GH. So depending on how responsive and healthy your pituitary is depends on the amount released during a pulse. It could be 10iu or 1iu it all depends on lots of factors that are specific to the person. THAT is the downside in my eyes.

Since I am unsure the pulse of my own pituitary (but still want to drain that guy out for all its worth) I would use mk677. On top of that I will use a small dose of Exogenous GH. Timing is the issue I run into here and the area I need to research.

Mk677 is by no means in my eyes a fix all to stop running GH. There are too many benefits of exogenous GH but at the same time if I can pulse my own (just like I can with peptides) why would I continue running GH at a high dose? It would benefit me the most to run mk677 to get the most I can from my pituitary and use my exogenous GH timed properly with my insulin to keep off fat storage and elevate my IGF1 levels.
 
DangerDave said:
It's not quantifiable because it is a secretagogue and GH is the actual synthetic hormone. Mk 677 signals the pituitary almost the same way as GHRP and Modgrf would meaning your pituitary will pulse its own natural GH vices putting in exogenous GH. So depending on how responsive and healthy your pituitary is depends on the amount released during a pulse. It could be 10iu or 1iu it all depends on lots of factors that are specific to the person. THAT is the downside in my eyes.

Since I am unsure the pulse of my own pituitary (but still want to drain that guy out for all its worth) I would use mk677. On top of that I will use a small dose of Exogenous GH. Timing is the issue I run into here and the area I need to research.

Mk677 is by no means in my eyes a fix all to stop running GH. There are too many benefits of exogenous GH but at the same time if I can pulse my own (just like I can with peptides) why would I continue running GH at a high dose? It would benefit me the most to run mk677 to get the most I can from my pituitary and use my exogenous GH timed properly with my insulin to keep off fat storage and elevate my IGF1 levels.
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Okay I see what you're saying about all the variables between different people.

I have no intentions of getting into real GH and Slin usage, so I don't know much about it. But, if MK 677 could reduce the amount of GH needed than I would definitely say that's a bonus! It would cost less than a grand to run it year round.
 
rascal14 said:
Okay I see what you're saying about all the variables between different people.

I have no intentions of getting into real GH and Slin usage, so I don't know much about it. But, if MK 677 could reduce the amount of GH needed than I would definitely say that's a bonus! It would cost less than a grand to run it year round.
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Yeah. The thing that peaks my interest also is this so called "water retention" and "fat storage" I don't really buy into that bs just because most people don't eat right. The medical studies show possible insulin resistance (Hyde pointed out earlier) but I kind of just ignore that crap because I use IGF-1lr3 and glucophage to bring mine back up seeing as I run GH year round.

But it's interesting anyways. Anyone know why the resistance? Or have an idea? I have my own theory but won't say yet...
 
So Update 1 (cycle day -7)
I started my prime. Workouts got very short but weights went up. Hitting 3-4 lifts for 3-4 sets with minimal rest between. Getting 6-8reps. I cut my protein intake down by half and reduced carbs slightly. I should lose a few lbs this week leading into the cycle, mostly glycogen. Water intake went to 1.5 gallons and I started my detox.
 
I have no idea nor read anything on Mk677 causing insulin resistance at all I've just read that continued GH usage at high doses (HIGH being key) will lead to reduced insulin sensitivity. I wrongly assumed exogenous IGF1 LR3 might do the same.
I will say if people with body fat levels like mine start killing carbs on Ibutamoren thinking their bodies are all of a sudden gonna be able to handle 700g cho to good effect when they were eating 300 they're in for a rude awakening. Fatter you get the worse you partition.
What's the detox involve and how does a prime work?
 
Also, Kleen and I were kicking around ways to make Mk677 more useful and while I knew cycling in some Huperzine A would help and had heard that Mucuns Pruriens/L-Dopa will also create more pulses to combo with the Mk I hadn't considered Prami usage before bed. I believe he's going to go that route with Gharine and see if he can't get some bigger pop out of it.
 
Hyde said:
I have no idea nor read anything on Mk677 causing insulin resistance at all I've just read that continued GH usage at high doses (HIGH being key) will lead to reduced insulin sensitivity. I wrongly assumed exogenous IGF1 LR3 might do the same.
I will say if people with body fat levels like mine start killing carbs on Ibutamoren thinking their bodies are all of a sudden gonna be able to handle 700g cho to good effect when they were eating 300 they're in for a rude awakening. Fatter you get the worse you partition.
What's the detox involve and how does a prime work?
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I prime is like a miniature cut. You cut macros down to almost catabolic levels and train hard. Then your body will want to grow but can't because lack of calories. When you feed it then you gain fast and hard because your body has been begging for the nutrients and it over compensates. Think of a car burning rubber then right as it catches traction you give it a 100 spray of nitrous. You get going pretty quick. Same thing, just like how you rebound muscle grow right after a show prep.

The detox is just me using a detox kit, cleaning out my gut and getting rid of any radicals in my body. I use a prescription grade liver cleanse pill (it's brutal) and pound tons of water. By the time I start my cycle I wouldn't have had a test shot in almost 2.5 weeks. So my system is clear and AR receptors will be ready to suck up all the goodies I'm about to stick in it :)
 
Hey so I haven't read the study(ies) but apparently Mk677 was found to have diminishing returns at 100mg/day...so literally as much as you can afford and tolerate will increase release. Also, apparently a bunch of healthy males were given 25mg/day for 2 years straight and no ill effects were noticed. While GH releases did decrease slightly between the 6 month mark and the 12 month mark, IGF-1 release actually increased by 10% getting stronger over time.

I'm literally just paraphrasing a paraphrase from some post's in Kleen's Gharine log, but was interesting. Basically no need to start low at 10mg unless you're trying to save every penny you can and still get something from it, and effects do NOT diminish over time or need to be cycled. Again, I haven't read sh*t, but this was pretty interesting. If prices come down like they did for Ostarine, Ibutamoren could be some awesome year-round supplementation.
 
So there are adjustments happening to the bulk. I'm adjusting doses slightly. It should be getting fun next week. Monday I start front loading my test e.

I'm adjusting because I want to cut down the amount of oil I am gunna be pinning. It's 6ml a week just in test. So I'm getting some blends coming. I get this one called Anarchy Synergy 600 and its 200mg Tren E, 200mg Mast E, 100mg Deca and 100mg test e in 1ml
 
Very nice. I suppose it wouldn't be too bad anyways with the mast and deca in there and it all being long ester.
 
Hey guys, I have a question. I'm at about week 5 in my cycle. It started as this
1-3 Test prop 75mg eod
1-4 Tbol 60mg ed
1-4 Test C 500mg ew

starting a few days ago I started doing 325mg Cyp e3d and yesterday I upped Tbol to 80mg. My adex was at about .25 e3d the first couple weeks, then .5mg e3d. A few days ago I noticed a hard knot under my left nipple, and then both nipples were sensitive to the touch. I started .5mg Adex eod a couple days ago and also Nolva at 20mg ed to help get it under control.

The thing is, this whole time, even on Prop, I have had no jump in libido and I have a few days every once in a while where I am very tired and not wanting to do anything but sleep.

I'm not sure if E is too high or low, I tend to think it was high with the nipple sensitivity. I just haven't really felt that "on" feeling much these past few weeks. I am planning on getting blood work on Monday now to see where everything is. I'm just curious to any ideas.
 
Ummmmm sounds like e2 is high yeah from the nips and libido and lethargy. As far as "feeling on" it could be anything. Blood work wil tell the tale though...anything else is just guessing.

I would have liked to have seen the blood work while you were on the prop though.
 
Montego1 said:
Ummmmm sounds like e2 is high yeah from the nips and libido and lethargy. As far as "feeling on" it could be anything. Blood work wil tell the tale though...anything else is just guessing.

I would have liked to have seen the blood work while you were on the prop though.
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I thought about getting it on Prop, but I had a feeling it was underdosed and I did not want to waste the $100 to find out what I already thought I knew. On prop I barely used an AI. I had no signs of high test, high e2, or low e2. I think it may have been dosed just enough to help me feel slightly normal from the Tbol shut down.
 
Hyde said:
Yeah his post did seem kind of trollish, didn't it? - nobody has to be here. Drugs make a HUGE difference but especially just concerning strength numbers they're not the end all be all, Look at guys like big Ray Williams - I guarantee he gets tested A LOT. Doesn't guarantee he's not using something but does guarantee he's not using IFBB pro level doses or blasting/cruising even. This squat is raw in knee SLEEVES btw:

[video=youtube;LCzN5TnW7Fw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCzN5TnW7Fw[/video]
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Ray is the strength coach at the college i went to school at! :)
 
rascal14 said:
I thought about getting it on Prop, but I had a feeling it was underdosed and I did not want to waste the $100 to find out what I already thought I knew. On prop I barely used an AI. I had no signs of high test, high e2, or low e2. I think it may have been dosed just enough to help me feel slightly normal from the Tbol shut down.
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Not sure bro. It's truly hard to tell without blood work. If it's research grade AIs then chances are it's some bunk crap. That would be my first guess.. E2 is high and AIs are crap
 
DangerDave said:
Not sure bro. It's truly hard to tell without blood work. If it's research grade AIs then chances are it's some bunk crap. That would be my first guess.. E2 is high and AIs are crap
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AIs are pharm grade. I'm getting blood work on Monday to be sure of everything, I'm just trying to find the right tests to order.
 
rascal14 said:
AIs are pharm grade. I'm getting blood work on Monday to be sure of everything, I'm just trying to find the right tests to order.
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Female hormone panel if all you want is E2 levels because it won't show test levels above 1500 or free test
 
DangerDave said:
Female hormone panel if all you want is E2 levels because it won't show test levels above 1500 or free test
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It looked like the one that tested over 1500 didn't test for e2 at first but I misread it.

Includes:
Estradiol
Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Luteinizing Hormone (LH)
Testosterone, Free (Direct) With Total Testosterone, LC/MS-MS
Complete Blood Count (CBC) with Differential
Comprehensive Metabolic Profile (CMP) (includes eGFR)

I'm going with this one to test the quality of the gear too.
 
DangerDave said:
Female hormone panel if all you want is E2 levels because it won't show test levels above 1500 or free test
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rascal14 said:
It looked like the one that tested over 1500 didn't test for e2 at first but I misread it.

Includes:
Estradiol
Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Luteinizing Hormone (LH)
Testosterone, Free (Direct) With Total Testosterone, LC/MS-MS
Complete Blood Count (CBC) with Differential
Comprehensive Metabolic Profile (CMP) (includes eGFR)

I'm going with this one to test the quality of the gear too.
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This test goes over 1500 Invalid Link Removed
 
Yep I use this one mostly. I'll use another when checking lipids though.
 
Yeah go with that one. I test different ways depending if I need lipids or not
 
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