Epistane vs Halodrol vs ProMag

Zariph

Active member
Hello

Which one of these Ph's would be the best for my first cycle? I want to put on some musclemass, my bodyfat is around 12% I think.

Also what are the benifits of each product?
What sides are there and which one has the mildest side effects?

Do I need a SERM for all of them? If thats the case will nolvadex be enough or do I need to combine it with clomid?
 
well I have researched them a bit

There are ALOT of epi threads but as far as I can see its more of a cutting ph?

Also there are not many Pmag threads?

Halodrol some say its good for cutting some says its good for size...thats why im not really sure which1 to go etc
 
I have ran both compounds. For size i think Halodrol is better. However, it can be used for cutting, it depends on your diet. if you eat in a surplus you will get bigger, if you eat in a deficit you will lean out. I recommend eating clean in a surplus. I would start out on 50mg a day and if all is well you can up to 75mg. If your lower back gets tight get some taurine.

PCT
10/10/5/5 or 20/20/10/10
you could add DAA then after that load up on creatine. you have to maintain your eating and training if you want to keep gains. I have done this protocol a couple times.

As for epi, i would save for cutting cycle.
 
Thx man! how much did you gain from each compound? Also do I need novla and clomid or will I be fine with nolva and a natty T-booster?
 
I would suggest nolva only at 20/20/10/10 with test booster supps. And a SERM is HIGHLY recommended for pct for any of those compounds you listed.
If you want to go even further, add an AI (aromasin, not letro) at 12.5mg from week 3 of pct and run it for 4 weeks. This step is to take care of any chance of rebound gyno
Also I have seen many people suggesting reduced xt for cortisol control from week 3 for 4 weeks. I don't know the mechanism of reduced xt and its relation to cortisol control.
 
I gained about 15lbs. I think i ran it for 6 weeks. You wont need both, you will be fine with one or the other and a natty booster. I was cutting when i used Epi and i stacked it with 11-0x0 so im not sure how much i gained. I agree with demonfox on the AI, I just used PES Erase starting week 3 of PCT and ran for 4 weeks as well. Supposedly it helps control cortisol as well as estrogen.
 
I've ran both EPI and halo.
Currently on my second halo cycle.

Love both compounds but I honestly put on better weight with epi, but the sides are way more noticeable. Trouble sleeping, very painful joints, headaches. Hdrol I get less noticeable sides put on slightly less weight. But my strength gains are insane on both compounds.

I put on 14lbs with EPI
Roughly 7-8lbs with Halo
 
Im only able to get 20mg nolva...also would it be safer to run both clomid and nolva? then 2 weeks intro pct I will start activate xtreme+erase pro + a cycle of ArA
 
Haven't used P-Mag but here is what I know and have read about the 3 compounds you're interested in:
-all are suitable for a beginner cycle
-all are methylated and thus require proper cycle support for liver protection
-Sides are roughly equivalent for all with Epistane having higher risk of dry joints as it is an anti-estrogenic compound
-Epistane shines as a cutting compound
-Pmag is preferred for bulking and Halodrol > Pmag for strength/performance gains
-SERM is advised for all
-Pmag will kick in fastest around week 2. Week 3-4 is when Hdrol and Epi shine.
All that being said, I like Halodrol for a first timer, but you can't go wrong no matter which you choose
 
Thx man! that helped a bit, which one would you think would put on the most muscle mass? Gonna run Hdrol or Epi for 5-6weeks....also which one will I fine the easiest to keep my gains?

Also would it be the safest to both use clomid AND nolva?
 
My first ever cycle was halo only. Was very supressive on me, caused azoospermia 4 weeks in and complete loss of libido and drive. Made my joints hurt, back and calf pumps so bad it made cardio unbareable. Lethargic and overall ****ty feeling, but made me bigger, stronger and leaner than ever before. Personally I hate methyls and wouldn't recommend it as a first cycle.
 
Zariph said:
Thx man! that helped a bit, which one would you think would put on the most muscle mass? Gonna run Hdrol or Epi for 5-6weeks....also which one will I fine the easiest to keep my gains?

Also would it be the safest to both use clomid AND nolva?
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With the same bulking diet and length of cycle PMAg might have the edge on mass from what I read, but between Epi and Hdrol I lean to Hdrol. A bit more water with it but it's still a dry compound and great for pushing heavy weights. The SERM combo would be fine but not needed IMO. Either or would be plenty for normal duration and reasonable dosing.
 
okay...atm I've got Activate xtreme,lean xtreme and erase pro....so would it be overkill to add both nolva and clomid?...if so should I jsut go with nolva`?
 
Zariph said:
okay...atm I've got Activate xtreme,lean xtreme and erase pro....so would it be overkill to add both nolva and clomid?...if so should I jsut go with nolva`?
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Either one. Both have pros and cons. I've done both. No preference. If you want extra assurance both is fine too. Your other stuff is good too.
 
okay so if I run a ph for week 1-6....then week 7-11 I run nolva 40/40/20/20 + lean xtreme+activate xtreme, then week 9+ I run ArA+PA etc?;)
 
Zariph said:
okay so if I run a ph for week 1-6....then week 7-11 I run nolva 40/40/20/20 + lean xtreme+activate xtreme, then week 9+ I run ArA+PA etc?;)
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Nolva would be fine at 20/20/10/10. Clomid is 50/50/25/25. Either together or one ran solo. I suggest you have an AI onhand for during any cycle too as a precaution. Look at Letrone while on cycle or for use in PCT. Exemestane would be a heavy duty back up only if needed.
 
both letrone and exemestane works as an AI? also should I take an AI while ON cycle too? and how do I dose it druing cycle and pct
 
Zariph said:
both letrone and exemestane works as an AI? also should I take an AI while ON cycle too? and how do I dose it druing cycle and pct
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Yes, they are both Aromatase Inhibitors. Exemestane is pharma grade type suicidal AI. Letrone is an OTC all natural AI. It is contains an extract of atractylodes macrocephala, which is proving to be a very effective aromatase
inhibitor. It's also showing a lot of positive anabolic benefits. As far as Aromatase Inhibtion, Exemestane is obviously stronger, which is why I would only use for emergency gyno symptoms. Letrone is potent also but not to the point where estrogen is crushed as completely.
An AI's purpose on cycle is to be used in conjunction with "wet" compounds that aromatize into estrogen. The AI binds to the Aromatase enzyme thus preventing it from converting test into estrogen. Hdrol is considered a low risk compound for this but better safe than sorry. You never know which compound your body will react negatively to until you've had some cycle experience.

The purpose of AI use in PCT is to prevent estrogen rebound after discontinuing the SERM. If Test/Estrogen levels are still not leveled after the SERM is finished, there can be a rebound effect where the body tries to make more estrogen. The AI stops this again.
 
oh okay, so can I just run this from the start of my PCT then? or should I get an extra bottle and run it on cycle too?
 
Zariph said:
oh okay, so can I just run this from the start of my PCT then? or should I get an extra bottle and run it on cycle too?
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My philosophy on cycling is to be over prepared. I don't want any permanent sides (gyno) in exchange for a few lbs. honestly I've never needed an AI on cycle yet, but it's there in case. Sooner or later gyno symptoms will flare for almost anyone. If no signs and not using an aromatizing compound (Hdrol is not) then don't run on cycle unless you want the added drying effects. If using in PCT I would start it during the last week of the SERM and run it for 4 weeks. This gives your estrogen levels more time to balance out without the SERM convincing the body that estrogen is low. One bottle would suffice for on cycle or for PCT. if you want both then you should have two. Honestly I'd feel safe with one.
 
Zariph said:
okay thx man - which of Hdrol/epi/Pmag will have the lesat chance to cause gyno?
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That's a tough question because it is largely user dependant. I've heard of more cases of rebound gyno from Epistane. Pmag is slightly wetter than the others. Hdrol is lowest risk IMO, but again that varies by user. All are considered non-aromatizing, thus lower risk. There are no zero risk ph/ds compounds.
 
okay thx m8, just heard a bit about epi being ani estro?....Also will I be able to keep the gains even tho im not going on a second cycle? or will my gains slowly fade?
 
Zariph said:
okay thx m8, just heard a bit about epi being ani estro?....Also will I be able to keep the gains even tho im not going on a second cycle? or will my gains slowly fade?
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As long as you continue eating and working out gains will be keepable. You might lose a lb or two during pct or you could keep gaining a couple lbs. weight will still fluctuate a bit normally but eventually your body will start preserving the increased muscle mass.
 
okay so if I gain like 10 lbs...I will most likely be able to keep atleast 6lbs if my diet and training is good? and then keep adding wait as I usually do when Im not on a cycle?
 
yeh okay, well should I keep dieting the way I do as when im ON cycle? I should I lower my calories back to normal
 
Btw why are no1 recommending Pmag? When I do some research ppl say that it has got less side effects and is a better bulking ph?
 
Zariph said:
Btw why are no1 recommending Pmag? When I do some research ppl say that it has got less side effects and is a better bulking ph?
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You asked for mildest sides and keepable gains. Overall consensus is usually Halo for most. Pmag is a little wetter (more water retention). So some weight gain would be lost in PCT. plus I haven't tried it. I like what I've read, but I stick with what I know. Hopefully other with experience will give some feedback.
 
Also is CEL Cycle assist fine? Or will it be better to run talos? also do I need to add TUDCA while on cycle? and whats the deal with hawthornberry...I see talos doesn't contain that?
 
Zariph said:
Also is CEL Cycle assist fine? Or will it be better to run talos? also do I need to add TUDCA while on cycle? and whats the deal with hawthornberry...I see talos doesn't contain that?
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Hawthorn needs time(about a week) to help lower your BP because at the beginning it spikes your BP(short term).CEL cycle assist is fine but the best cycle support out there is the new version on Ar1micare Pro by OL.P-Mag,Halo or Epi are mild compounds so extra tudca is not necessary.Drink 1.5 gallon of water ed to avoid back pumps.Good luck ;)
 
okay what about Talos? is that not as good as cycle assist and Ar1micare Pro? Also I can see Ar1micare Pro doesn't contain Hawthornberry..so should I buy som hawthornberry in addition to that?...

Also the hawthornberry should I run it during pct also;P?
 
Zariph said:
okay what about Talos? is that not as good as cycle assist and Ar1micare Pro? Also I can see Ar1micare Pro doesn't contain Hawthornberry..so should I buy som hawthornberry in addition to that?...

Also the hawthornberry should I run it during pct also;P?
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What? Bro listen Ar1micare pro doesn't have hawthorn but for on cycle is PERFECT You can add Howthorn on cycle but is not necessary.Talos doesn't even come closer to the new Ar1micare Pro version Do more reaserches bro :)
 
Zariph said:
so Ar1micare Pro -> cycle assist -> talos?

Im not sure where to get Ar1micare Pro in EU tho
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Bro I'm from Italy and I use to buy OL stuff on Powermyself or Jwsupplements i talk to the owners and they told me that the new OL stuff will be available next week
 
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