How many mg of 4-dhea is needed for test base

not sure what your cycle looks like, or what your running but...
If its a 4 weeker or 6 weeker, i would start with 2 caps a day for the first week (100mgs), then up the dosage to 200mgs as needed.
 
Which brand of 4-AD are you using? Im going to be running AMS RDE Chrome 4-AD and have a similar question and cant seem to get a general concencus. Its to run alongside Tren if that helps
 
MTPMJM said:
Which brand of 4-AD are you using? Im going to be running AMS RDE Chrome 4-AD and have a similar question and cant seem to get a general concencus. Its to run alongside Tren if that helps
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It is supposed to have better absorption than regular 4 dhea but I wouldn't trust that. You can start at 2 tabs a day and work your way up.
 
I ran 4 tabs/day of AMS RDe 1-Andro, and used 3 tabs/day of 4-AD, and felt great. I'd try 2 tabs/day and see - if you want. (I'd like to know - would save $$ :) )
 
I was planning on running rde chrome...2-3 caps a day for 6- 8 weeks as a base...so 400mg-600mg 4-dhea

Then im either guna run some diabolix (bc I picked up 2 bottles right before the ban for 20 bucks each) or run msten or dmz

I wanna clean bulk so leaning towards msten over diabolix
 
FitnessLuke said:
I was planning on running rde chrome...2-3 caps a day for 6- 8 weeks as a base...so 400mg-600mg 4-dhea

Then im either guna run some diabolix (bc I picked up 2 bottles right before the ban for 20 bucks each) or run msten or dmz

I wanna clean bulk so leaning towards msten over diabolix
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Msten would stack good with the diabolix
 
Volvo140G said:
Luke, I believe the 4ad rde tabs contain 20 (or 40?) mg 4-dhea per tab
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Okay I just pulled it up and saw that it said it was a blend of 200mg

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So yall are saying its only 40mg 4-dhea

That sounds kinda crappy, because 20 mg doesn't even mean 20 mg of testosterone. That's just 20mg and then it still has to get converted to testosterone. I could be wromg, but I thought I heard only 15% gets converted to testosterone. Meaning 3 pills a day would only yield 9 mg of actual testosterone. Netting 63mg of testosterone a week. Sounds like that would barely cover the lethargic sides an oral would would bring.


Correct me if I am wrong. This is all my own bro science.
 
Also the vote is msten over dmz stacked with diabolix?

What kinda ai should I use? I have 30 25mg aromasin coming in, but I kinda wanted to save them for weeks 4- all the way into pct at 12.5mg ed. I don't know how much the diabolix is going to aromatize or if the 4-dhea will give me problems at that dosage.

Ive had a minor flare up of gyno before and want to keep it under control. I also have raloxifene on hand and plan on using it in my pct and cycle as needed.

I think I will order 2 bottles of the 4-dhea, so should I just run 3 a day all the way through my cycle?
 
I ran Diabolix for a couple of months and I must say that I found it to be very dry. I was hoping that it would have some "wetness" to it, but for me it did not. I actually started to lean out in the very early stages of my run. Some of the initial leaning out may have been because of the 30mg a day of arimistane I was taking but that is a low dose indeed. Diabolix is a very versatile compound I believe. If you are someone that eats big and puts on weight easily, I believe it could still be a bulker. I just don't believe anybody should expect anything resembling the gains you woulld see on D-bol.

As far as the strength of the compound, I started at 45mg for a couple of weeks but it was very mild. Then I moved to 60 for a couple of weeks and it got a bit better. Once I moved to 75mg the compound started to shine. I also experimented with 90mg towards the end of the cycle and saw great gains in the short term but by then my body was ready to come off so I dropped back down to 75mg and rode it out for the last few days. I was also stacking the last few weeks with another compund which added to the extra stress on my body. I did not suffer any lethargy on the cycle and I only ran 2-3 pumps per day of Dermacrine for the last 4 weeks of the cycle.

I may try Msten in June if I decide to stack it with my Triumph cycle. I can't make up my mind what I want to run with Triumph.
 
well finally some real world feedback for diabolix! Honestly you made me lean towards diabolix(especially since I already have it on hand), but msten and diabolix would be fun.

The real question is what to do for my test base. 4-dhea sounds sketchy if it'll do much. I also saw trest is still available and it would cost the same as ordering 2 bottles of the 4-dhea product.
 
I have never used 4-Dhea so can't comment on the effectiveness of it. I only dabbled with the original 4-DioI many years ago. I would Imagine Dermacrine at full dosage (5 pumps ED) would work quite well if experiencing lethargy. I think starting the 4-Dhea @ 200 mg ED and adjusting up as needed is your best bet. It seems that most people are good with the compound unless it is a really heavy cycle.

I would love to try out some Trest soon. If you have pre-esixting Gyno issues though, you'd better know that your AI is g2g, when using Trest.

Msten stacked with Diabolix would probably be fun if all of the supports were on hand.
 
I would definitely get more ai than the 30 aromasin pills with trest. Seems like the gains would be better with trest. It would cost the same too...I just know it lacks dht, so maybe trest wouldnt be the best for a test base?

I just cant afford 200mg of 4 dhea, bc that would be 10 pills a day...which is like 4 bottles haha. Sounds like trest is a better bang for your buck.

Trest+msten+diabolix=fun or dose it equal lethargic hell? Haha
 
FitnessLuke said:
I would definitely get more ai than the 30 aromasin pills with trest. Seems like the gains would be better with trest. It would cost the same too...I just know it lacks dht, so maybe trest wouldnt be the best for a test base?

Trest+msten+diabolix=fun or dose it equal lethargic hell? Haha
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Trest is my favorite base hands down. Nothing makes you feel better. OL dermatrest kept me going on sd and tren where 300mg of 4 andro wouldn't touch the lethargy I had. Have some good cycle support like armicare pro and some tudca for this cycle you are proposing
 
FitnessLuke said:
I just cant afford 200mg of 4 dhea, bc that would be 10 pills a day...which is like 4 bottles haha. Sounds like trest is a better bang for your buck.
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IronMag Labs 4-Andro Rx is 50 mg per cap so you would only need to start at 4 per day.
 
yates84 said:
Trest is my favorite base hands down. Nothing makes you feel better. OL dermatrest kept me going on sd and tren where 300mg of 4 andro wouldn't touch the lethargy I had. Have some good cycle support like armicare pro and some tudca for this cycle you are proposing
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So even without the dht that trest lacks it still helps with energy? ? Thats awesome. Think im going that route bc it would still be the same price as blackstone labs 4dhea

I found injectable trest and also ran into desoxy-t

Anyone know abouy desoxy-t?
 
FitnessLuke said:
So even without the dht that trest lacks it still helps with energy? ? Thats awesome. Think im going that route bc it would still be the same price as blackstone labs 4dhea

I found injectable trest and also ran into desoxy-t

Anyone know abouy desoxy-t?
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Yes, trest helps with energy level and especially works great for libido. Since I first ran trest I find it hard to run a cycle without it
 
yates84 said:
Yes, trest helps with energy level and especially works great for libido. Since I first ran trest I find it hard to run a cycle without it
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How was your pct recovery from it? I know it was studied to be used as a male b.c because it strongly shuts you down, so does that make pct is hard to get test levels back up?
 
FitnessLuke said:
How was your pct recovery from it? I know it was studied to be used as a male b.c because it strongly shuts you down, so does that make pct is hard to get test levels back up?
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I only have experience with dermatrest but found it extremely easy to recover from
 
FitnessLuke said:
Awesome...I mean even if I go with an injectable form of trest it should be the same results
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IM trest is completely different from derma/oral trest from what I have heard. I cannot really give you any advice on IM trest because I haven't ever used it. Maybe someone else can tell you more about it
 
yates84 said:
IM trest is completely different from derma/oral trest from what I have heard. I cannot really give you any advice on IM trest because I haven't ever used it. Maybe someone else can tell you more about it
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Well wait what have you heard about IM trest. That it is better or worse than oral?

I would think better since injections usually mean less harshness? Also anyone know if you can inject it sub q? I have a bunch of insulin needles and it would be way cheaper than IM needles.
 
^Any input on the best way to run @ 3 per day? 150mgs, split.
Either 2 AM, 1 PM or visversa

Im guessing as long as you get it into your system, thats all that matters. But wondering if anyone with exp with 4andro knows if it is best pre workout (or a few hours after)
 
FitnessLuke said:
Okay I just pulled it up and saw that it said it was a blend of 200mg

So yall are saying its only 40mg 4-dhea

That sounds kinda crappy, because 20 mg doesn't even mean 20 mg of testosterone. That's just 20mg and then it still has to get converted to testosterone. I could be wromg, but I thought I heard only 15% gets converted to testosterone. Meaning 3 pills a day would only yield 9 mg of actual testosterone. Netting 63mg of testosterone a week. Sounds like that would barely cover the lethargic sides an oral would would bring.


Correct me if I am wrong. This is all my own bro science.
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Not affiliated with AMS in any way...

Fitness Luke (and most of the masses, as I see this inaccuracy a lot):

Sub-lingual delivery of compounds, allows for less compound to be used but delivers equal, if not more, to the body. This is due to the compound NOT having to go through the liver on first pass. Cyclodextrin PH's have been around, and wasn't it Patrick Arnold that first developed them? I've always heard that the AMS Tabs contained 25mg, but figure 20-40, as we'll never know. Whatever the case, they work, as my log-book from my last run shows. LG Sciences also does sub-lingual/mucosa delivery, and I remember a few positive comments about their line too.

I actually prefer sub-lingual delivery. Now, cost wise may be another story, but I never price compared.

As far as your quantity comparo - I'm really not qualified but can guess: AMS claims almost 100% delivery of the compound to the target receptors because of liver bypass. So that means 25mg. Yes, it's a 2-Step conversion, but for easiness, lets say all 25mg manages the right conversion to T. At 3 Tabs/Day (1.5x Label), which is what I took - that's 75mg PER DAY = 525mg PER WEEK. I'm not up on TRT or T Blasts, but don't they do weekly injections (depending on the Esther)? Now, no way it's 100%, but you get the picture as far as a Test base goes - it'd be like injecting a couple hundred mg of Test per week.

Or I could be WAAAAAAAY Off :) But it worked for me.
 
FitnessLuke said:
Well wait what have you heard about IM trest. That it is better or worse than oral?

I would think better since injections usually mean less harshness? Also anyone know if you can inject it sub q? I have a bunch of insulin needles and it would be way cheaper than IM needles.
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Yes IM trest is much stronger. Sub q is not an option, IM only
 
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