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Cutler Nutrition King Phosphatidic acid based product

paul56778

paul56778

Well-known member
Hi all

Do any of you have an experience with this product, I have just started using it at 3 caps per day. 1 x with breakfast, 1x with my PWO X-Factor 4 softgels (1000mg ARA) and 1x with my pre bed meal.

Is it better to take all three on an empty stomach 45 mins pre workout with 4 X-Factor Soft-gels or keep them split through the day.
 
Thanks for the reply, but i was wondering if there was a benefit because of all the other ingredients in this product.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Take them all together preworkout. PA works acutely and is activated by training. Danes can elaborate if need be.
Click to expand...

Thanks for suggesting,

Some studies are showing that you can take even 3 hours before workout but its much easier to take prior workout.
Scientists said it is working through extracellular means by converting to LPA Physical stressors such as exercise is needed to "release" those enzymes which are responsible for converting PA and PS to LPA which again activate mTOR.

-Take all caps before workout
-take 1500mg ArA (believe me it works better)
-enjoy your gains :)
 
Danes said:
Thanks for suggesting,

Some studies are showing that you can take even 3 hours before workout but its much easier to take prior workout.
Scientists said it is working through extracellular means by converting to LPA Physical stressors such as exercise is needed to "release" those enzymes which are responsible for converting PA and PS to LPA which again activate mTOR.

-Take all caps before workout
-take 1500mg ArA (believe me it works better)
-enjoy your gains :)
Click to expand...
You're talking about the study I referenced on another forum that measured PA and LPA levels from 1.5g PA after a 12-hour overnight fast, correct?
Here's from the study:
Plasma concentrations of PA peaked at 3 hours (+32%) after ingestion and stayed elevated even after 7 hours (+18%). LPA showed a bimodal absorption kinetic with peaks after 1 hour (+500%) and 3 hours (+264%), after almost dropping back to baseline levels after 2 hours.
Click to expand...
and they concluded:
LPA and PA can be molecularly identified and measured. LPA, PA and LPA+PA plasma levels increase 30 min after ingestions, plateau at 1-3 hours and remain above baseline levels after 7 hours. This is the first case study showing that orally administered PA is bioavailable.
Click to expand...
Considering that the PA was taken after a 12-hour overnight fast, it was at least 12 hours, and almost certainly at least a few more hours, since the subject was subject to any physical stressors such as exercise, yet LPA still seemed to increase, despite no apparent physical stressor. I don't know if more PA would have been converted to LPA after a stressor, but it seems that LPA was still increased with PA supplementation alone.

What do you think Danes?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You're talking about the study I referenced on another forum that measured PA and LPA levels from 1.5g PA after a 12-hour overnight fast, correct?
Here's from the study:

and they concluded:

Considering that the PA was taken after a 12-hour overnight fast, it was at least 12 hours, and almost certainly at least a few more hours, since the subject was subject to any physical stressors such as exercise, yet LPA still seemed to increase, despite no apparent physical stressor. I don't know if more PA would have been converted to LPA after a stressor, but it seems that LPA was still increased with PA supplementation alone.

What do you think Danes?
Click to expand...

Dr.jacob/jeffrey/jay said stressor played a important role for converting to LPA. .(like their said more PA would be beneficial.they said they have data supporting that).

So, I believe they mean stressors are needed for optimal convertion to LPA. get the most out of PA/PS.

"LPA showed a bimodal absorption kinetic with peaks after 1 hour (+500%) and 3 hours (+264%)"

Thats why I prefer my PA/PS prior workout.
So that means physical stressors such as training would optimize LPA convertion
 
Danes said:
Thanks for suggesting,

Some studies are showing that you can take even 3 hours before workout but its much easier to take prior workout.
Scientists said it is working through extracellular means by converting to LPA Physical stressors such as exercise is needed to "release" those enzymes which are responsible for converting PA and PS to LPA which again activate mTOR.

-Take all caps before workout
-take 1500mg ArA (believe me it works better)
-enjoy your gains :)
Click to expand...

Would there be a massive benefit of 1g (how much better is 1.5 for X-Gels, would this provide much more lean muscle gains, recommended dosage is 4 gels per day)
 
paul56778 said:
Would there be a massive benefit of 1g (how much better is 1.5 for X-Gels, would this provide much more lean muscle gains, recommended dosage is 4 gels per day)
Click to expand...

Thats the funny thing about x factor to me. They advertise the study at tampa done with 6 per day, 1.5 g, but only suggest 4 a day. Its obviously to make a greater selling point. 1.5 is the standard for ara. The study is quoted on all thier molecular nutrition writeups for x factor.
 
paul56778 said:
Would there be a massive benefit of 1g (how much better is 1.5 for X-Gels, would this provide much more lean muscle gains, recommended dosage is 4 gels per day)
Click to expand...

Many of my friends saw huge difference from 1g to 1.5g. Some of then ran 2g.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Thats the funny thing about x factor to me. They advertise the study at tampa done with 6 per day, 1.5 g, but only suggest 4 a day. Its obviously to make a greater selling point. 1.5 is the standard for ara. The study is quoted on all thier molecular nutrition writeups for x factor.
Click to expand...

Yes, the dose in the study was 1.5g and I see no point doing lower than that. If you have inflammation issues, then avoid it totaly
 
Danes said:
Yes, the dose in the study was 1.5g and I see no point doing lower than that. If you have inflammation issues, then avoid it totaly
Click to expand...

Yes it made my joints hurt so bad ............
 
Bump I have just come to day 10 of X-Gels and King 1g ARA and 3 caps of king, i am gaining strength whilst in PCT and have a more full pumped appearance no DOMS to speak of, I have also just got another tub of 100 x-factor advanced should i take 2 of them to bump overall dosage up-to 1.5g for the remained of the run.

Also is the advanced version much better and is it OK to mix with standard.
 
paul56778 said:
Bump I have just come to day 10 of X-Gels and King 1g ARA and 3 caps of king, i am gaining strength whilst in PCT and have a more full pumped appearance no DOMS to speak of, I have also just got another tub of 100 x-factor advanced should i take 2 of them to bump overall dosage up-to 1.5g for the remained of the run.

Also is the advanced version much better and is it OK to mix with standard.
Click to expand...

I would think to keep them seperate, but im curious also because i have a bottle and a half x factor advanced and two bottle x factor for my upcoming run. I was told run advanced first but curious to see what people think
 
Op have you tried all three caps pre workout on an empty stomach? When I take SL granuales pre workout my pump and muscle fullness is insane...
 
Danes said:
Thanks for suggesting,

Some studies are showing that you can take even 3 hours before workout but its much easier to take prior workout.
Scientists said it is working through extracellular means by converting to LPA Physical stressors such as exercise is needed to "release" those enzymes which are responsible for converting PA and PS to LPA which again activate mTOR.

-Take all caps before workout
-take 1500mg ArA (believe me it works better)
-enjoy your gains :)
Click to expand...

I second the 1.5g of ArA pre-workout.....the difference between 1g and 1.5g is extremely noticeable for me.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Danes what do you think i should do? I have 145 caps xfa, 200 caps xf.
Click to expand...

That's just over 50 days of dosing at 1.5g daily. Go through the XF first and finish with the XFA...if you get sore from it, the XFA which is supposed to limit the soreness, will help at the end of the run. That would be by personal recommendation.
 
jwsnowman said:
That's just over 50 days of dosing at 1.5g daily. Go through the XF first and finish with the XFA...if you get sore from it, the XFA which is supposed to limit the soreness, will help at the end of the run. That would be by personal recommendation.
Click to expand...

Yea i actually figured that myself. I was gunna bump up the dose to 1.75 and split those 45 caps up evenly. Or run 2g of xfa towards the end. But suprisingly i heard the opposite as well in doing advanced first.
 
I'm not Senad (and obviously late with my reply) but 24 consecutive workouts at 6 per with the Advanced, a break, then 25 workouts at 8 per with the OG.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Yea i actually figured that myself. I was gunna bump up the dose to 1.75 and split those 45 caps up evenly. Or run 2g of xfa towards the end. But suprisingly i heard the opposite as well in doing advanced first.
Click to expand...

I've heard some people have seen even more benefits from dosing at 2g but I personally noticed no real difference from 1.5 to 2.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Thanks fellas. How long of a break in between?
Click to expand...

Long enough to feel the itch to run it again :D

If you split it like I suggested and used it in an overreaching phase, you'd know very well when to start over.

If you did 50 workouts straight I highly doubt you'd be making gains all 6-10 weeks because it is difficult to be overreaching consistently workout to workout for so long. That was the logic behind my suggestion :)
 
Danes said:
If you run 2 months, 2 months break would be good
Click to expand...

I understand that. In the post machinehead said run xfa for 24 then a break, then xf at 2g for 25. Total 49 days. But im saying how long is the break between the two?

Lol trust me i have no problem not taking a break between hahah
 
machinehead said:
Long enough to feel the itch to run it again :D

If you split it like I suggested and used it in an overreaching phase, you'd know very well when to start over.

If you did 50 workouts straight I highly doubt you'd be making gains all 6-10 weeks because it is difficult to be overreaching consistently workout to workout for so long. That was the logic behind my suggestion :)
Click to expand...

I got you, so basically like a d load in between.
 
Yes, but you know your body better. You can do what Danes suggested also if you are more of a volume guy. I'm a power/strength guy so I don't think linearly :)
 
machinehead said:
Yes, but you know your body better. You can do what Danes suggested also if you are more of a volume guy. I'm a power/strength guy so I don't think linearly :)
Click to expand...

You know i try to do both, but my volume is absurd...

Hi my name is empire and Im an iron addict lol
 
Great, do what Danes suggested. And, please, drop at least a line to tell us your impressions, we are addicts too :)
 
Looking for information on stacking King with Mag and X-Gels. Starting second bottle of Mag today, workout 16 on xgels, and just cracked first bottle of King. For training day tomorrow can I add (2) King with the usual 3 mag / 4 x-gels preworkout?
 
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