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Article: Muscle Growth and the Estrogen Connection

So it's good for muscle growth, but bad in higher levels for sense of well being/libido when on trt?
 
I ignore the whole 'keep E2 on high end for optimal gains' type advice. Never had a problem doing this. I'm a fan of dense, quality gains, not water weight.
 
is it wort it

Smont said:
Im also confused
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Self induced Estrogen Dominance for the sake of Muscle doesn't make sense. None of us Male or Female need any help becoming Estrogen Dominant in today's toxic environment, between the xenoestrogens in our Air, soil and especially plastic not to mention the multitude of hidden estrogenic foods. I'd say preserving as much T as possible through Aromatase inhibiting medications or supplements would be the more prudent road to follow. As Testosterone easily converts to Estrogen and Never the other way around, the question becomes what is more important Making and Preserving Testosterone or the equivalent with Estrogen?
 
"Although science has yet to reveal how much estrogen is maximal for hypertrophy gains" and it never will. Everyone's levels are different and how they respond is unique to one's self.
 
From taking DermaTrest by Olympus Labs, I can tell you first hand high levels of estrogen is terrible for a man. Even HCG is terrible at aromatizing in the body. Estrogen negatively influences T3 in the body, increases aldosterone which increases cortisol levels, makes you depressed, itchy nipples, can't keep an erection, low energy. I've been taking Letro/Adex every day on cycle and it really helps. My energy can be so dead in the gym when my Estrogen is so high from Trestolone. I don't agree with estrogen being high in the male body, you feel like an absolute b****.
 
hardtoget said:
From taking DermaTrest by Olympus Labs, I can tell you first hand high levels of estrogen is terrible for a man. Even HCG is terrible at aromatizing in the body. Estrogen negatively influences T3 in the body, increases aldosterone which increases cortisol levels, makes you depressed, itchy nipples, can't keep an erection, low energy. I've been taking Letro/Adex every day on cycle and it really helps. My energy can be so dead in the gym when my Estrogen is so high from Trestolone. I don't agree with estrogen being high in the male body, you feel like an absolute b****.
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Yup high e2 is like a damn before/after Snickers bar commercial haha
 
I don't know what article you all read, but this is simply saying that estrogen to a certain degree is important and that running all the AIs and dropping e2 to low levels is actually not a good thing. Go ahead a drop your estrogen levels and see how you feel. There is a balance that needs to be in place.
 
From muscle development:
"Truthfully, it is impossible to state whether anyone has been harmed by using aromatase inhibitors for performance- or physique-enhancement; it simply is not tracked. These two drugs are oral (a similar drug, Aromasin®, is injected); they generally do not cause physically perceived, short-term symptoms; and they are rarely used long-term. These factors instill a false sense of security in users.

Yet, there are problems that may arise as a result of aromatase inhibition, particularly aggressive aromatase inhibition that suppresses estrogen concentrations to very low values. Estrogen (primarily estradiol, but let's stay with the generic term estrogen for simplicity's sake) is not a metabolic waste product in men, a primordial remnant of no greater perceived value than the appendix. It is a functioning hormone that is anabolic in some tissues (e.g., bone, fat, breast); a stimulatory hormone (i.e., enhances production of certain circulating proteins in the liver); a metabolic modifier (affects endocrine hormones as well as carrier protein concentrations, such as binding globulins for vitamin D and sex hormones); a neurosteroid affecting neurotransmitter action, behavior, and emotions; an endocrine regulator; and has other functions.

It is irrational to think that there would not be hazards when concentrations are artificially suppressed well below the lowest extreme of the physiologic range, just as occurs when estrogen is elevated past the upper limit of normal. What, then, are some of the possible consequences to creating an estrogen deficiency in adult males?"
 
muscletank said:
I wish someone summarized data on testosterone-to-estradiol ratio instead of talking just about estradiol.
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Exactly, increasing estrogen is the Endrocine system's natural response to elevated testosterone levels. So, measuring and testing the results of the one without the other, don't make too much sense. But that's just my 2 cents.
 
muscletank said:
What, then, are some of the possible consequences to creating an estrogen deficiency in adult males?"
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Don't know if this is a rhetorical question- but fatigue, low libido, depression, joint issues, hot flashes, etc..

Low estrogen is not a good thing.
 
Low estrogen is not a good thing, but bro science has been telling people for years that it's good to run estrogen levels fairly high (when on cycle) for increased gains.

In the article, it's written "most no longer believe that these extreme supraphysiological estrogen concentrations are necessary for maximizing growth" - this is the point that people are mainly agreeing with here. The advice for people to run estrogen levels high for gains was all over the net for a while. It's completely bogus.
 
This issue of estrogen's "value vs harm" will never end.

It's too complex and adding to this complexity are the variances from one bb'ers experiences, phenotype, genetic uniqueness with regard to how one metabolizes estrogen (and test for that matter) and observations to another's.

For this reason (a lack of conclusion); maintaining "normal/in-range" estro levels seems like the most logical strategy to/for me for overall health/functionality. Let's not forget estro's inarguable value with regard to cardiovascular health.
 
Estrogen Balance!

kisaj said:
I don't know what article you all read, but this is simply saying that estrogen to a certain degree is important and that running all the AIs and dropping e2 to low levels is actually not a good thing. Go ahead a drop your estrogen levels and see how you feel. There is a balance that needs to be in place.
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kisaj said:
I don't know what article you all read, but this is simply saying that estrogen to a certain degree is important and that running all the AIs and dropping e2 to low levels is actually not a good thing. Go ahead a drop your estrogen levels and see how you feel. There is a balance that needs to be in place.
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You said it all in your last sentence!! Proper balance not too low nor too high... In my opinion as Men we should aim to keep our Body levels of Estrogen as close to normal as possible, and that it of itself is no easy task as even fat cells can produce estrogen along with phyto estrogenic foods such as Beans, flax and soy, then there are the xenoestrogens that unbeknownst to us all we are in constant contact with, such ad plastics, pesticides, herbicides ect. High levels of E are no good for Male or Female as most women know and fear, estrogen dominance and excess body weight could leave the door open to many Bad things such as Cancer, Heart attack and stroke. Although mainly used by women to balance Hormones usp bioidenticle Progesterone cream can and should be used by men. As Dr Wong teaches Progesterone cream not only aids in the manufacturing of Testosterone but also inhibits its conversation to Estrogen while also eliminating excess estrogen via the liver. My whole point is that excess Estrogen levels in man, woman and especially child are in my opinion counter productive if not out right dangerous! To what we are all trying to achieve. Muscle and Health. Feed back please?
 
winbig121 said:
You said it all in your last sentence!! Proper balance not too low nor too high... In my opinion as Men we should aim to keep our Body levels of Estrogen as close to normal as possible, and that it of itself is no easy task as even fat cells can produce estrogen along with phyto estrogenic foods such as Beans, flax and soy, then there are the xenoestrogens that unbeknownst to us all we are in constant contact with, such ad plastics, pesticides, herbicides ect. High levels of E are no good for Male or Female as most women know and fear, estrogen dominance and excess body weight could leave the door open to many Bad things such as Cancer, Heart attack and stroke. Although mainly used by women to balance Hormones usp bioidenticle Progesterone cream can and should be used by men. As Dr Wong teaches Progesterone cream not only aids in the manufacturing of Testosterone but also inhibits its conversation to Estrogen while also eliminating excess estrogen via the liver. My whole point is that excess Estrogen levels in man, woman and especially child are in my opinion counter productive if not out right dangerous! To what we are all trying to achieve. Muscle and Health. Feed back please?
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I was going to try progesterone cream until I read a lot of guys were reporting loss of libido and dead dick from using it.
 
Dr William Wong ND Phd basically writes in his book Maximum Male Performance on most days only use about a 5mg squirt. When your emotions are high and mood is low and your penis insists at only hanging at the 6:30 oclock position use the full squirt that day. If the area behind your testicles is sore and your having trouble passing water or you have the after pee dribbles that means your prostate is swollen use a full 10mg dose for the week when mood is great libido is up use a half dose a little bit in measured doses like recomended byDr Wong put the dose anus or taint not scotum. you cant use this **** like suntan lotion a little dab il do ya
 
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