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booneman77 said:
Has your libido always been like that or is that a more recent (last yr or so) issue?
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It really started going down (this is going to sound weird) when I was 19 and after I took Universal Nutrition's Animal M-Stak. Obvioulsy it's just a bunch of bunk herbs, but for some reason, I remember that being the first time I felt a "dip." Since then I've had intermittent moments and it's high if I'm seeing a new girl, but when I'm single for some reason it's just dead. Which is fine in a way because then it allows me to focus on whatever goals/priorities I've set out for myself.

Dma378 said:
Damn you for making me think of 80 year old libidos!!
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mountainman33 said:
Eeeewwwwww.....
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;) Ain't it grand?
 
Week 3 Post-Depletion Update

Morning weigh in: (no bowel movement this morning)
Weight: 165.2
Waist: 32.1

Caliper 3-Point Test: (after 3-4 tests)
Chest: 9
Abdominal: 14
Thigh: 11


Compared to start of fat-loss phase:
Weight:
01/06 - 169.4lbs
01/29 - 165.2 (-4.2lbs)

Waist Size:
01/06 - 33.5in
01/29 - 32.1 (-1.4 inches)

Notes
As the weight drops, we're going to keep it very simple and separate training/diet/supplementation into two factors: anabolic factors & catabolic factors.

Catabolic Factors: TNT AM/PM, Albuterol, Carnitine/Choline, Mod GRF (1-29), Yohimbine HCL, Melanotan II, Taurine, L-Tyrosine

Anabolic Factors: Potassium Gluconate (1-2grams for increased glycogen/fluid retention), Taurine (same as K), CJC MPA

I might be repeating myself, but I need to outline what will happen over the next 4 weeks.

1) TNT will run out and this log will transition into a peptide log. Admin might have to Cycle Info even though peptides are technically natural ingredients.

2) With CJC MPA what I've essentially done is create a nice base of elevated GH. This accounts for the muscle thickness, increased strength, slight lethargy, and fat loss. Now, as has been seen with GH elevators, specifically those that use synthetic GH, fat loss stalls around week 2-3 if dosed high. I'm currently around the 2 week mark. As has been shown, Mod GRF is superior for fat loss with coupled with a GHRP. So I will be maintaining this baseline GH during my anabolic days with 3-5x/day dosages (might have to inject at the office which will be a pain) and Mod GRF on my fat loss days.

-> Specifically:
Mon-Wed: GHRP-2/6 + Mod GRF (1-29) at 75-100mcg each.
Thursday-Sunday: Ipamorelin/GHRP-2/6 + CJC MPA
Ipamorelin: 500-1500mg Thursday & Saturday evening
CJC MPA: 100-200mcg Thursday-Sunday (with Sunday having at least 4 doses)
GHRP-2/6: 75-100mcg with each GHRH​
 
Yup. Had bloodwork last year.

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Test was pretty high as was SHBG...
 
koi1214 said:
Low free T and high SHBG.Total test was good.
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Yes. I was thinking of low-dose Exemstane for the positive effects on SHBG lowering. It might be part of my problem...

Any tips on freeing up some more T?

Granted this was about 10-11 months ago and I did do an Ostarine cycle -but I used a full PCT, so the numbers should be the same.
 
I've been thinking about Boron supplementation either in the form of BSL Viron (but no funds yet) or NOW Foods Boron.

Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines.
Naghii MR1, Mofid M, Asgari AR, Hedayati M, Daneshpour MS.

Abstract
Boron possesses widespread properties in biochemistry and nutrition. Acute supplementation with 11.6 mg of boron resulted in a significant increase in plasma boron concentration. Given such a fast bioavailability, the objective was to determine whether acute (hourly or daily), and weekly supplementation could have any significant biological effects on the steroid hormones and further on some inflammatory biomarkers. Eight healthy male volunteers attended the laboratory on three occasions (days 0, 1 and 7). On the first day (day 0), a blood sample collection at 8.00 A.M was followed by ingestion of placebo with the breakfast. On the next day (supplementation-day 1), similar procedure was followed by ingestion of a capsule containing 10mg of boron. On both occasions blood was collected every 2h for the next 6h. Subjects were requested to consume a capsule of 10mg boron every day with their breakfast, and on the day 7, the blood collection was carried out at 8.00 A.M, again. Boron in plasma increased significantly following hours and weekly consumption. Six hours supplementation showed a significant decrease on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), high sensitive CRP (hsCRP) and TNF-α level. After one week (in samples taken at 8.00 A.M, only), the mean plasma free testosterone increased and the mean plasma estradiol decreased significantly. Dihydrotestosterone, cortisol and vitamin D was elevated. Also, concentrations of all three inflammatory biomarkers decreased after supplementation. Of note, despite decreased proinflammatory cytokines, based on recent clinical data, this must be the first human study report to show an increase level of free testosterone after boron consumption.
 
Grayson said:
It really started going down (this is going to sound weird) when I was 19 and after I took Universal Nutrition's Animal M-Stak. Obvioulsy it's just a bunch of bunk herbs, but for some reason, I remember that being the first time I felt a "dip." Since then I've had intermittent moments and it's high if I'm seeing a new girl, but when I'm single for some reason it's just dead. Which is fine in a way because then it allows me to focus on whatever goals/priorities I've set out for myself. ;) Ain't it grand?
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now that you mention it I ways seemed to have a pretty big dip in libido during lengthy single times as well. Had my best cuts and training during those times too ha.
 
booneman77 said:
now that you mention it I ways seemed to have a pretty big dip in libido during lengthy single times as well. Had my best cuts and training during those times too ha.
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Exactly.

Benefits
More money in the pocket
No eating out (at a restaurant) - - - therefore no diet/macro dilemmas
No one bitching at you for getting too ripped/too muscular/too big (I've dated some vampiric women)

More to follow if I think of them...
 
Grayson said:
Yes. I was thinking of low-dose Exemstane for the positive effects on SHBG lowering. It might be part of my problem...

Any tips on freeing up some more T?

Granted this was about 10-11 months ago and I did do an Ostarine cycle -but I used a full PCT, so the numbers should be the same.
Click to expand...

Viron!!

booneman77 said:
now that you mention it I ways seemed to have a pretty big dip in libido during lengthy single times as well. Had my best cuts and training during those times too ha.
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If I am not mistaken doesn't cutting negatively effect test levels?
 
just got caught up on last 5 pages...one crazy assed log, lol!!!!:cheers:
 
koi1214 said:
Viron!! If I am not mistaken doesn't cutting negatively effect test levels?
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it does. After a prolonged cut its almost unavoidable. The issue is that I experienced this without cutting. Seems more like a "use it or lose it" type of issue.
 
booneman77 said:
it does. After a prolonged cut its almost unavoidable. The issue is that I experienced this without cutting. Seems more like a "use it or lose it" type of issue.
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Yup. Lyle has a table that shows the various hormones that fluctuate while cutting/bulking. Obviously cortisol is at its highest when cutting and if cutting severely.
 
Update - From Tension -> Power

As a test I did not take a dose of TNT AM before my session last Thursday and after having it with me for so long, I really felt something was missing.

Took it for the power workout on Saturday.

Noteworthy accomplishments:

BP off the Pins: 250x6,x4,x5
OHP off the Pins: 150x1,x3,x5
Deadlift: 340x3x3

Notes

Trying to lose weight during the winter sucks ass. It just sucks. Plus I read on another science source (which I can't link here), that basically said it's pretty difficult to lose weight during the dead of winter due to visceral fat adaptations.
Visceral fat = fat between our organs
Subq fat = fat padding

So, it's easy to lose subq fat, but visceral fat is harder. ADF helps visceral fat redistribute itself into subq.

With that said, I need a break, and instead of just taking a week off, I'm still determined to be sub-10 before March, so we're changing it up in the form of Every-Other-Day Refeed with Alternate Day Fasting

Protocol Outline
M, W, F: Tension-Style Full-Body Workout. 3-5 sets per body part @ 6-12 reps at 75-85% 1RM.
Diet: 30g Fat, 600-800g CHO, 1g/lb Protein
This should be about: 3-4k calories

T, Th, S: 60-80 min LISS cardio. Depending on mood we might incorporate some small depletion workouts after cardio. This all depends on rate of recovery.
Diet: Fasting from 8pm previous day to 8pm. Break fast with <500 kcals -mostly protein with some fats. (i.e. 2-3 servings of lean beef).

Since this is just a break from the program, we're still attempting to cut fat and intensity must remain in the gym in order to hold onto muscle.

Sunday might have a cheat meal or might just be a keto-type day with high fat/protein and low carbs.

Monday will be a return to UD2.

I believe I will be out of TNT AM by then. I will give a final review and then merge this log into a "peptide log."

Lastly, TNT AM has been wonderful. It's kept up well and it's great profile to have around.
 
Grayson said:
As a test I did not take a dose of TNT AM before my session last Thursday and after having it with me for so long, I really felt something was missing.

Took it for the power workout on Saturday.

Noteworthy accomplishments:

BP off the Pins: 250x6,x4,x5
OHP off the Pins: 150x1,x3,x5
Deadlift: 340x3x3

Notes

Trying to lose weight during the winter sucks ass. It just sucks. Plus I read on another science source (which I can't link here), that basically said it's pretty difficult to lose weight during the dead of winter due to visceral fat adaptations.
Visceral fat = fat between our organs
Subq fat = fat padding

So, it's easy to lose subq fat, but visceral fat is harder. ADF helps visceral fat redistribute itself into subq.

With that said, I need a break, and instead of just taking a week off, I'm still determined to be sub-10 before March, so we're changing it up in the form of Every-Other-Day Refeed with Alternate Day Fasting

Protocol Outline
M, W, F: Tension-Style Full-Body Workout. 3-5 sets per body part @ 6-12 reps at 75-85% 1RM.
Diet: 30g Fat, 600-800g CHO, 1g/lb Protein
This should be about: 3-4k calories

T, Th, S: 60-80 min LISS cardio. Depending on mood we might incorporate some small depletion workouts after cardio. This all depends on rate of recovery.
Diet: Fasting from 8pm previous day to 8pm. Break fast with <500 kcals -mostly protein with some fats. (i.e. 2-3 servings of lean beef).

Since this is just a break from the program, we're still attempting to cut fat and intensity must remain in the gym in order to hold onto muscle.

Sunday might have a cheat meal or might just be a keto-type day with high fat/protein and low carbs.

Monday will be a return to UD2.

I believe I will be out of TNT AM by then. I will give a final review and then merge this log into a "peptide log."

Lastly, TNT AM has been wonderful. It's kept up well and it's great profile to have around.
Click to expand...

Did you also see benefits from TNT PM? Would you run the stack together in the future?
 
GNO said:
Did you also see benefits from TNT PM? Would you run the stack together in the future?
Click to expand...

I'll break it down by ingredient:

screen_shot_2014-09-06_at_1.18.04_am_2.png


Fucoxanthin: Data shows this activates brown fat thus an increase in thermogenesis. So, did I feel warm/hot? Yes

Kelp: Essential mineral. Needed for healthy thyroid. Did this help? I already take kelp tablets daily, so I didn't have to with this. I am neutral, but if you need an AIO product. Go for it.

Chitosan: Some data showing that halts absorption of dietary fats. I did not need this on the PSMF. When dosing on an empty stomach (in my case before bed), it has data showing it lowers bad cholesterol. I don't have blood tests to prove this.

GS: increases insulin secretion from beta cells. I never took this before a meal so I cannot accurately gauge this. The theory being, more insulin = less glucose clearance time. Therefore there is more time for you to go back into "fat-burning" mode. Did this help with thermogenesis? Yes.

Aloe Vera: taken from this study: Invalid Link Removed Dietary Aloe Reduces Adipogenesis via the Activation of AMPK and Suppresses Obesity-related Inflammation in Obese Mice. Do I want to activate AMPK while I'm resting? This is user dependent. Personally, I do not since I rather keep anabolism "on" and use different methods to turn it "off." Did I lose muscle as a result of AMPK? No, but again, I rather use different means for AMPK. (i.e. fasting).

Hoodia: appetite suppressant. Did get hungry after dosing? No.

Choline: slight nootropic/transports fats into cell mitochondria and the building of cell membranes = increased fat burning. Did this help? Yes. Also, I have been dosing 1-1.5g of choline before cardio, so this was also a worthy additional source.

Chromium unfortunately it is not disclosed which form of Cr is included in this formula. Necessary for glucose metabolism. I did not take fasting BG readings, so I cannot comment if this had an effect or not.
 
Grayson said:
I'll break it down by ingredient:

View attachment 113916

Fucoxanthin: Data shows this activates brown fat thus an increase in thermogenesis. So, did I feel warm/hot? Yes

Kelp: Essential mineral. Needed for healthy thyroid. Did this help? I already take kelp tablets daily, so I didn't have to with this. I am neutral, but if you need an AIO product. Go for it.

Chitosan: Some data showing that halts absorption of dietary fats. I did not need this on the PSMF. When dosing on an empty stomach (in my case before bed), it has data showing it lowers bad cholesterol. I don't have blood tests to prove this.

GS: increases insulin secretion from beta cells. I never took this before a meal so I cannot accurately gauge this. The theory being, more insulin = less glucose clearance time. Therefore there is more time for you to go back into "fat-burning" mode. Did this help with thermogenesis? Yes.

Aloe Vera: taken from this study: Invalid Link Removed Dietary Aloe Reduces Adipogenesis via the Activation of AMPK and Suppresses Obesity-related Inflammation in Obese Mice. Do I want to activate AMPK while I'm resting? This is user dependent. Personally, I do not since I rather keep anabolism "on" and use different methods to turn it "off." Did I lose muscle as a result of AMPK? No, but again, I rather use different means for AMPK. (i.e. fasting).

Hoodia: appetite suppressant. Did get hungry after dosing? No.

Choline: slight nootropic/transports fats into cell mitochondria and the building of cell membranes = increased fat burning. Did this help? Yes. Also, I have been dosing 1-1.5g of choline before cardio, so this was also a worthy additional source.

Chromium unfortunately it is not disclosed which form of Cr is included in this formula. Necessary for glucose metabolism. I did not take fasting BG readings, so I cannot comment if this had an effect or not.
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Are you aware if those dosages the active ingredients or is the Fucoxanthin etc a % extract of that amount?
 
NoAddedHmones said:
LOL first time dropping by this thread to be honest. Will be interested to hear from them, that would be an almighty dose if it is not a % extract!
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I agree. Just from looking around between burners that include to single ingredient products, fucoxanthin can be found from anywhere from 2-10mg per dose depending on your product -this is simply looking at Amazon. So based on this, we'll say that's between 0.008-0.04% extract.
 
Grayson said:
I agree. Just from looking around between burners that include to single ingredient products, fucoxanthin can be found from anywhere from 2-10mg per dose depending on your product -this is simply looking at Amazon. So based on this, we'll say that's between 0.008-0.04% extract.
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mmm could be a higher extract, Lipomorph has 88mg active from a 50% extract.
 
Update

I'm going to make sure to update this daily this week to provide notes on how ADF + EODR feels.

Tomorrow, Tuesday Feb 02, 2015, will be my first real fast day in a while.
Morning will be about 80 minutes of LISS Cardio and I'll basically just be abusing Albuterol.

Peptide dosing will be 1) Pre-cardio and 2) Before the break-the-fast protein meal.

Peptide Notes

Mod GRF (1-29) has a longer/higher head rush.
I've been mixing 75-100mcg of GHRP-2 with 50-100mcg of GHRP-6 and enjoy it greatly. Before bed is too stimulatory, but before a meal or pre-cardio is wonderful. The rationale here is that the two GHRPs act on different receptors.
Ipamorelin before bed is the icing on the cake. It's so light and fluffy. It's a pillow in a vial and you just feel so... euphoric.
Melanotan II's 2nd dosage was today. Nothing new to report. Some milld, very mild libido increases. I only say this because it's been so low as of late, I know when I get a "tingle." Pigmentation hasn't changed either, but again I'm at a very low dose of 100mcg-200mcg.
 
have you tried adf before or is this just some trial/error time for you?
 
sorry for being late...how is the am/pm treating you?
 
booneman77 said:
have you tried adf before or is this just some trial/error time for you?
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I've tried it twice before but under different conditions.

1) As an attempt to deplete glycogen further during the last weeks of PCT from Ostarine. This did not end well and I ended up gorging at the end of the fast.

2) Two months back in attempt to create my own program. It went something like this:

Day 1 - Heavy Upper - Maintenance/+10% kcals
Day 2 - Light Lower - PSMF kcals
Day 3 - Fast
Repeat, but switch the body parts.

It didn't work and this was after PCT when I was just... burned out. Needlesstosay, that 1 off finished me off.

thebigt said:
...how is the am/pm treating you?
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Read above ;)
 
ADF Update

In an hour or so will conclude the first fast in this ADF protocol.
Yesterday concluded 3000kcals (2975 approximately).
Treadmill said I burned 775kcals. Saw the "Rampage Capital Punishment." For an Uwe Boll flick, it wasn't that bad.
Had three doses of the following separated by ~4 hrs:
8mg Alb
200mg Caff
7.5mg YHCL (with 15mg being first dose with cardio)
1.5g Choline
1.5g Alcar
1g Taurine
2g L-Tyrosine

Very stimulated all day. Felt very warm.

Also dosed 200mcg of MTII before cardio. Hunger suppression kicked in nicely and hunger has only reared it's head now. (time is 20:18)

Feelings:
A little weakish -don't ask me to lift anything now.
Finally craving food
Mentally alert
Stomach has been warm all day and is increasing in warmth as day progresses

I'd like to hit 3500-4000kcals on my eating days.
 
Sounds like so far adf has been rough for you. I'll be interested to see if this time works out any better. Are you just running this week or planning to go longer?
 
booneman77 said:
Sounds like so far adf has been rough for you. I'll be interested to see if this time works out any better. Are you just running this week or planning to go longer?
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Depends on how I feel/progress in the gym/body composition changes. I might go longer. Depletion really kills me and in the winter it's just masochistic.
 
ADF Day 2 Update

Concluded the fast with 8oz of grilled chicken tenders, and an isolate shake mixed with half tablespoon of MCT oil.
No hunger pangs to report after breaking the fast.
No gorging.
Woke up leaner, but not specifically fuller.

I feel ADF only works in my body if I carbload the evening before. Is this the antithesis of dieting/fasting? Not really and let's look at the math...

Normal 80kg man with normal insulin resistance/sensitivity at 10-12% bf. Let's put his maintenance calories at (body weight x15) = 2640. So we'll say 2700 and maybe even 2800 depending on the type of training. But let's leave at 2700.

Normal Diet: (2700 x 7) = 18,900 total calorie FOR THE WEEK.

ADF Diet (with LISS Cardio) = ~4500 kcals x 3 = 13500 (lift days) + 2500 (Sunday -little less than maintenance) = 16,000 kcals

Okay, not bad so far... 2900kcals deficit for the week.

Let's add some cardio to that. An average 65 minute LISS session burns ~775 kcals. Let's multiply that by 2 = 1550. Add to weekly deficit = 4450 kcals burned per week. That's not bad at all.
 
For those that like/need proof on how ADF spares muscle and increases insulin sensitivity, here you go...

Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men, Nils Halberg, J Appl Physiol 99: 2128-2136, 2005
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Update - Tension Workout

Another "tension" workout.
Increased poundage on all lifts.
Did not skip a beat.
Felt more fatugued and time to exhaustion was reduced, then again I barely had anything in my system.

Breakfast: 1 whole egg, 1 cup 1% cottage, 1/2 cup 1% milk.

Pre-WO Meal: 20g ISO-100, 96g Banana, 3g Creatine

Pre-WO Supplementation:
2 Caps TNT AM
400mg Caff
4 Caps Cistamax
6g TMG

PWO
2 cups 1% Milk
1 scoop ISO-100
4 Tbsp Chocolate Moo Syrup

Notes
I'm struggling here with 8 servings of pasta. It's just... not going down.
I'm not that hungry... which sucks because I know if I don't eat enough tonight, my workout on Friday is going to suffer.

Will update shortly... crap.
 
Grayson said:
Another "tension" workout.
Increased poundage on all lifts.
Did not skip a beat.
Felt more fatugued and time to exhaustion was reduced, then again I barely had anything in my system.

Breakfast: 1 whole egg, 1 cup 1% cottage, 1/2 cup 1% milk.

Pre-WO Meal: 20g ISO-100, 96g Banana, 3g Creatine

Pre-WO Supplementation:
2 Caps TNT AM
400mg Caff
4 Caps Cistamax
6g TMG

PWO
2 cups 1% Milk
1 scoop ISO-100
4 Tbsp Chocolate Moo Syrup

Notes
I'm struggling here with 8 servings of pasta. It's just... not going down.
I'm not that hungry... which sucks because I know if I don't eat enough tonight, my workout on Friday is going to suffer.

Will update shortly... crap.
Click to expand...

Have you tried a carb supplement, like Karbolyn or Carbion (key lime cherry is awesome)?
 
GNO said:
Have you tried a carb supplement, like Karbolyn or Carbion (key lime cherry is awesome)?
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I don't want to come off as offensive, but I don't like using carb powders. I like to reference this article: Invalid Link Removed

Sure it'd be easier, but I don't need the fanciness. I'll just tough it out. It puts hair on the chest :P

Still trying to get through this damn bowl of angel hair. 1700-gddamn-calories worth of starch...
 
MTII Update

Noticeably darker.

So far 3 doses comprised of 100mcg, 200mcg, and 200mcg.

I am type III skin and I now look like what I normally look like in the summer. Not tanned, but darker. It's nice :)
 
ADF Update

Damn...

Another 80 min bout of LISS cardio. Burned ~937 kcals.

Began fasting yesterday at 11pm.
Broke it this evening at 11pm.

Retaining water and it sucks.
Hunger only hit at around 9:30pm, so the majority of the day I was fine.
Feel rundown a bit. Could be the weather.

Abused the usual suspects today. Heart beat a little faster. Didn't like that.

Yesterday: ate about 3400kcals. 1g/lb protein, 35g fat, and around 500g carbs. Oatmeal helped me get there.

Tomorrow is a full power workout. 10x3-5 is the name of the game.

Going to have some pre-WO carbs and then remain carbless in the PWO period. Going to focus on meats and nuts and upping the dietary fat. Yeah, I said meats and nuts. :P

Ech, fasting screws with my head.
 
You guys scared him!
 
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