Normal Total T, Low free T, Low E2

[mcs5309]

Since I make a fair amount of natural total T for my age (54), but can't get the benefits of it because my free T is likely bound by too much SHBG, the questions are:

a) what's causing my SHBG to elevate?
b) if the source cannot be determined or changed, what can be done to reduce SHBG in order to free up and boost free T?

Last labs showed Total T @ 610, but my free T is still in the dumps @ 8.4.

The rest:
SHBG: 48.4 [19.3 - 76.4] Prior to starting T3 it was 20.
Free Androgen Index: 43.7 [18.0 - 82.0]
E2 is also in the dumps @ less than 3 [3 - 70]
Total Estrogens: 99 [40 - 115]

What I think might be a factor is the T3 I need to take for low thyroid function (as well as dessicated thyroid), as T3 has been shown in many studies to elevate SHBG.

My dilemma is that I've tried a number of supps (i.e. nettles) to suppress SHBG and the lowest level I got was 35 which was not enough to boost my free T.

Should I look at more aggressive approaches (danazol, proviron)? Or throw in the towel and start TRT to override total T so the excess boosts free T.

Other question: Is there any way to manipulate aromatization to increase E2 only and not the other estrogens as my total estrogens are already in the upper range?

For whatever it's worth, this urine test pretty much show I am lacking in androgens:
Invalid Link Removed

Current HRT:
- oral DHEA: 25-50mg/day
- Natural Dessicated Thyroid: 1.5grains b.i.d.
- T3: 10mcg b.i.d./t.i.d.
- will be starting rhGH replacement soon (I am legitimately GH deficient - failed stim test)

 

[Mr.TT]

T3 really increased my SHBG also. Your TSH must be clobbered.
I have blood tested my hormones on Stinging Nettles Root Extract, Danazol, Winstrol, Proviron, and Anavar.
Nettles barely works, Danazol is hard to scale down the daily dose, Winstrol killed my joints and AST/ALT,
Proviron bothered my prostate, low dose Var is the best for me.
1/4 of a 2.5mg Anavar pill b.i.d dropped my SHBG 22 points (to 42), and greatly improved my E2/FT ratio.
On 2.5mg of UL Var t.i.d, my SHBG dropped to 30, but my TT and FT dropped also.
I wanted a chance to post this....... UL Anavar (nice looking and expensive gear) did not come near to working like prescription Var did.
With Var, LESS WAS MORE.
I'm on 2 1/4 grains, and 5mcg T3 now. But when I was on 20mcg T3, my SHBG was in the 80's.

 

[mrmagoo2010]

T3 really increased my SHBG also. Your TSH must be clobbered.
I have blood tested my hormones on Stinging Nettles Root Extract, Danazol, Winstrol, Proviron, and Anavar.
Nettles barely works, Danazol is hard to scale down the daily dose, Winstrol killed my joints and AST/ALT,
Proviron bothered my prostate, low dose Var is the best for me.
1/4 of a 2.5mg Anavar pill b.i.d dropped my SHBG 22 points (to 42), and greatly improved my E2/FT ratio.
On 2.5mg of UL Var t.i.d, my SHBG dropped to 30, but my TT and FT dropped also.
I wanted a chance to post this....... UL Anavar (nice looking and expensive gear) did not come near to working like prescription Var did.
With Var, LESS WAS MORE.
I'm on 2 1/4 grains, and 5mcg T3 now. But when I was on 20mcg T3, my SHBG was in the 80's.

did you feel any different when your SHBG dropped? what improvements?

 

[mcs5309]

T3 really increased my SHBG also. Your TSH must be clobbered.
I have blood tested my hormones on Stinging Nettles Root Extract, Danazol, Winstrol, Proviron, and Anavar.
Nettles barely works, Danazol is hard to scale down the daily dose, Winstrol killed my joints and AST/ALT,
Proviron bothered my prostate, low dose Var is the best for me.
1/4 of a 2.5mg Anavar pill b.i.d dropped my SHBG 22 points (to 42), and greatly improved my E2/FT ratio.
On 2.5mg of UL Var t.i.d, my SHBG dropped to 30, but my TT and FT dropped also.
I wanted a chance to post this....... UL Anavar (nice looking and expensive gear) did not come near to working like prescription Var did.
With Var, LESS WAS MORE.
I'm on 2 1/4 grains, and 5mcg T3 now. But when I was on 20mcg T3, my SHBG was in the 80's.

According to this chart, my Total & free T and SHBG are all within range for my age (54): Invalid Link Removed

But doesn't that seem too low for free T?

 

[Mr.TT]

did you feel any different when your SHBG dropped? what improvements?

I'm 61yrs old. On that small amount of real prescription Var (.625mg b.i.d.) in two months my blood test showed
SHBG 63 went to 41
E2 33 went to 19
FT 46 went to 78

That is not a lot of FT but the E2/FT ratio change is remarkable.

What felt different??? Well my nocturnal WOOD, woke me up, I have no idea what was making him that intensely happy.
( I normally have morning wood, just not ever like this)
And, unfortunately, the increase in DHT made my prostate sensitive. (my PSA is .7, unchanged for years)

 

[mrmagoo2010]

I'm 61yrs old. On that small amount of real prescription Var (.625mg b.i.d.) in two months my blood test showed
SHBG 63 went to 41
E2 33 went to 19
FT 46 went to 78

That is not a lot of FT but the E2/FT ratio change is remarkable.

What felt different??? Well my nocturnal WOOD, woke me up, I have no idea what was making him that intensely happy.
( I normally have morning wood, just not ever like this)
And, unfortunately, the increase in DHT made my prostate sensitive. (my PSA is .7, unchanged for years)

was it bonavar? and maybe the decrease in E2 made your ft go up?

 

[Mr.TT]

According to this chart, my Total & free T and SHBG are all within range for my age (54): Invalid Link Removed

But doesn't that seem too low for free T?

IT'S THE T3.......... I had all the same problems........ You have made yourself Hyperthyroid.
T3 annoys your liver, it raises your SHBG, the SHBG chokes off your FT, without much FT to aromatize your E2 drops,
your HPTA raises you LH and your TT stays high in an attempt to over come the SHBG.

I have seen many MEN, who over do T3, end up on TRT.

 

[Mr.TT]

was it bonavar? and maybe the decrease in E2 made your ft go up?

USA generic Oxandrolone.

The drop in the E2 was the biggest surprise to me. That was totally unexpected.
I have used Aromasin to lower my E2 before (in a self test) and LH + TT went to top of range, but
the SHBG kept my FT low.
My LH dropped from 6 to 3.8 (range 1.6-15.2 QuestDiagnostics) on the Var,
but my TT went up a little.

 

[pmgamer18]

mcs5309,



I think I replyed to one of your posts at a diff. forum but here is what I
found doing E2 labs. At both Quest laba and Labcorp if your do there Sensitive
E2 test they don't work well most of the them they tell men they are to low
there is no way your E2 is at 3 this happens all the time do the Reg. E2 test at
Labcorp.



When they came out with the Sensitive E2 test at Quest labs first they were
saying my labs were <4 pg/ml my Dr. has a friend at the lab and he called
him. The guy told him they are having big problems with the new Sensitive E2
tests.



It was so bad Dr. John stopped using them then LabCorp came out with there
Sensitive E2 and the same thing is going on.



Redo your E2 test at Labcorp and get this one.

Estradiol
Item# LC004515

 

[mcs5309]

IT'S THE T3.......... I had all the same problems........ You have made yourself Hyperthyroid.
T3 annoys your liver, it raises your SHBG, the SHBG chokes off your FT, without much FT to aromatize your E2 drops,
your HPTA raises you LH and your TT stays high in an attempt to over come the SHBG.

I have seen many MEN, who over do T3, end up on TRT.

I'm thinking that also, but here's the problem: how can T3 alone make me hyper when TSH is still >1.50, free T3 is only optimized if I take T3, and rT3 is still elevated (something I did not mention above and that is an indication of hypothyroidism)??? Without enough T3, free T3 drops, rT3 spikes, temps drop, and TSH goes up. If I use NDT alone, I'd be concerned the higher amount of T4 would worsen rT3, then again, I have never been on NDT alone to see what effect it would have. My rT3 is too high right now and the only way to clear it is to use T3 only until it clears and then add or replace it with NDT. Others have no problem using T4 only or a synthetic combination of T4/T3. I did try T4 only for about a month, starting @ 50mcg. I definitely had NO problems converting to T3 and my TSH was adequately suppressed, actually too suppressed, but it did not raise my rT3 as I thought it might.

This has been and still is a real conundrum that I don't know how to figure out without trial and error, as in each of us the results will be highly variable because of individual genetics and biochemistry.

 

[mcs5309]

mcs5309,



I think I replyed to one of your posts at a diff. forum but here is what I
found doing E2 labs. At both Quest laba and Labcorp if your do there Sensitive
E2 test they don't work well most of the them they tell men they are to low
there is no way your E2 is at 3 this happens all the time do the Reg. E2 test at
Labcorp.



When they came out with the Sensitive E2 test at Quest labs first they were
saying my labs were <4 pg/ml my Dr. has a friend at the lab and he called
him. The guy told him they are having big problems with the new Sensitive E2
tests.



It was so bad Dr. John stopped using them then LabCorp came out with there
Sensitive E2 and the same thing is going on.



Redo your E2 test at Labcorp and get this one.

Estradiol
Item# LC004515

Really, that's interesting. I will get the regular E2 done next time and see if there's any difference. Thanks for the heads up on this.

 

[Mr.TT]

I'm thinking that also, but here's the problem: how can T3 alone make me hyper when TSH is still >1.50, free T3 is only optimized if I take T3, and rT3 is still elevated (something I did not mention above and that is an indication of hypothyroidism)??? Without enough T3, free T3 drops, rT3 spikes, temps drop, and TSH goes up. If I use NDT alone, I'd be concerned the higher amount of T4 would worsen rT3, then again, I have never been on NDT alone to see what effect it would have. My rT3 is too high right now and the only way to clear it is to use T3 only until it clears and then add or replace it with NDT. Others have no problem using T4 only or a synthetic combination of T4/T3. I did try T4 only for about a month, starting @ 50mcg. I definitely had NO problems converting to T3 and my TSH was adequately suppressed, actually too suppressed, but it did not raise my rT3 as I thought it might.

This has been and still is a real conundrum that I don't know how to figure out without trial and error, as in each of us the results will be highly variable because of individual genetics and biochemistry.

I'm not a big believer in rT3. Invalid Link Removed

But, a TSH of 1.5 after taking that much NDT + T3 is unexpected.
Have you done 23andMe testing? Can you list your HomoZ SNPs?

Here is why I ask, For two years, I was on 2 1/4grains of NDT+25mcg T3.
2 years ago my TSH was above 4, three months ago my TSH was .12 without no change in Meds.

What changed was, I stumbled on the fact that I was Under-Methylated, because of CBS, and MTRR SNPs.
And, for a year now, I have used SMALL amounts of, TMG, Molybdenum, MB12, AB12 to correct my methylation cycle.
Man, was I surprised when my TSH came back at .12, because, for the first time in 14 years, I needed to
reduce my thyroid supplementation.
HOW & WHY this worked for me????? More SAM?? Increased ATP??? Healed Thyroid????
All I know is it changed.

 

[mcs5309]

I'm not a big believer in rT3. Invalid Link Removed

But, a TSH of 1.5 after taking that much NDT + T3 is unexpected.
Have you done 23andMe testing? Can you list your HomoZ SNPs?

Here is why I ask, For two years, I was on 2 1/4grains of NDT+25mcg T3.
2 years ago my TSH was above 4, three months ago my TSH was .12 without no change in Meds.

What changed was, I stumbled on the fact that I was Under-Methylated, because of CBS, and MTRR SNPs.
And, for a year now, I have used SMALL amounts of, TMG, Molybdenum, MB12, AB12 to correct my methylation cycle.
Man, was I surprised when my TSH came back at .12, because, for the first time in 14 years, I needed to
reduce my thyroid supplementation.
HOW & WHY this worked for me????? More SAM?? Increased ATP??? Healed Thyroid????
All I know is it changed.

Yes, I am +/+ for MTHFR and +/- for CBS discovered over 2 years back. Have been on daily methyl donors (methylB12, P5P, TMG, L-5-MTHF, NAC, etc.) and haven't noticed any difference. Maybe I am over-methylating. I do take niacin for lipid management which slows methylation. Hard to know what is really happening. Labs all show adequate level of B12, B6, folic acid.

I should mention that I recently had parathyroid surgery to remove a benign parathyroid adenoma, so all bets off now, as I am in a hyperthyroid state. This can happen as a result of the surgery from manipulation of the thyroid:
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

So I stopped taking all thyroid meds yesterday because I am making too much T4 and Tg.

Here are my thyroid and accompanying iron & cortisol labs for the last several mos. The last one shows my post-op levels: Invalid Link Removed

Question: I have read much of tiredthyroid.com before. It seems to oppose the commonly-accepted 'dogma' about T3 and rT3. rT3 can elevate from a ton of different conditions, not just hypothyroid and low free T3. Do you agree this is the argument? What convinced you the author is correct?