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Calorie totals and Macros advice for lean muscle gains...

viking805fan

Member
Hi guys, I've been a gym rat for years and would like some advice on the nutrition side since it's one of the most important factors compared to exercise and recovery time. My goal is to gain as much lean muscle as possible. I currently consume about 2200-2500 calories a day and would like to know what you guys think. My stats are below. Thanks!

Age 25
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 170lbs
Body Fat range: 10-12%

I go to the gym 5-6 days a weeks
Macro goals as of now: 45% protein, 40% Carbs, 15% Fat
 
Up the fats a bit and lower protein
get around 170-200g of protein
at least 20% of your kcals from fats
and the rest carbs.

intake seems a bit like (2200-2500) for someone your weight and height IMO.

Some good information for you:


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Philosophies, Macro intake, training , and cardio articles for you to understand and help set up what you need to do before moving forward towards more supplements or advanced workout routines.


But,
Are you seeing the scale move?
how is your strength?
how much cardio are you doing?
How is the mirror looking?

Try to keep the cardio down because it can be catabolic, but doing maybe 1 HIIT session (6-7 Intervals) and 1-2 LISS sessions of about 20 minutes would be more than enough
 
Thanks for the info! I'll look into reading them when I get home. I'm thinking that I might be doing a bit too much cardio but I'm not sure. I work Monday-Friday from 8am-4pm and during lunch after I eat I go for a 35min walk then at about 3pm I go for a for another 15min walk. Then when I go to the gym I do about 15min on the elliptical as warm up and then after my strength training I do another 15min on the elliptical followed by 5min on treadmill doing some uphill walking.
 
Really??!!! After reading some articles I can agree with your statement.

Would this much cardio be impeding on muscle gains?? I can personally say at times that I can feel my stomach growling for food towards the end of my workout when I do my post cardio after my strength training. Would you recommend I stay in the same calorie goals of 2200-2500 or increase it a bit?? Or just adjust my cardio amounts??
 
You could still do that much cardio if you'd like, but you'll have to eat more to make up for the cals you're burning. Personally, I would keep cardio to a minimum like Bob suggested. I would still do it, but restrict it some and only up it if you need to for cutting purposes or if you plan on consuming a lot more cals in a week for whatever reason.

I also agree on upping the cals for your bodyweight. I carb/calorie cycle and average ~2550 cals a day, sometimes more or less depending on the day that is just an average, and I am twenty pounds less than you. If you want to gain slowly, you still need a surplus and at your weight, I'd think you would need 2700 cals a day if not a little more.
 
viking805fan said:
Really??!!! After reading some articles I can agree with your statement.

Would this much cardio be impeding on muscle gains?? I can personally say at times that I can feel my stomach growling for food towards the end of my workout when I do my post cardio after my strength training. Would you recommend I stay in the same calorie goals of 2200-2500 or increase it a bit?? Or just adjust my cardio amounts??
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Way too much man

Read and listen:


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Philosophies, Macro intake, training , and cardio articles for you to understand and help set up what you need to do before moving forward towards more supplements or advanced workout routines.

and this podcast will open your eyes to cardio:

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The info solution gave you is solid, I would follow that.

My suggestion would be 2500 cals minimum. But then again that is based on limited information. Record your macros and get a better understanding of your calorie number for: lose, maintain, gain. Then you'll have a better idea what will work for you.

for example I personally need about 2700 calories a day just to maintain, I might be able to grow a little on that with awesome workouts and lots of rest, but it would be very slow.
 
I will definitely check out that podcast and try to limit some of my cardio at the gym. I'll still do my 30 min cardio at work during lunch. I hate sitting down for most of the day in the office environment.
 
viking805fan said:
I will definitely check out that podcast and try to limit some of my cardio at the gym. I'll still do my 30 min cardio at work during lunch. I hate sitting down for most of the day in the office environment.
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It may not be necessary thats the point. Doing so much is only going to be counter-productive.
 
I have another question that I've been pondering about as well for the last few days. I use the myfitnesspal app to track my calories and amount of cardio I do while at work. The app subtracts those calories from my total caloric intake while still keeping the total calorie amount of food on a separate number. My question is...Should my goal of 2500-2700 calories per day be of just food or what that include the total amount after the app subtracts calories for logging in any cardio I do???

Thanks for the all info guys!!
 
Any "cardio" you do in your daily life I would not count. I personally wouldn't subtract calories from cardio you do at the gym either. Those machines can be way off.
 
On another quick note and example. I've been eating about 2800 calories daily and it seems like my hunger has gone up slightly. Kinda seems like my body is asking for more? Unless im just mentally going crazy. lol. Also, I am currently splitting my macros at 40/40/20 and it seems sometimes like I don't feel satisfied or full.

For example, here are my official diet numbers for yesterday...

Fats = 50grams (10 grams from Saturated)
Carbs = 327 grams (Fiber= 54grams & Sugars 114grams)
Proteins = 294 grams

Another quick question: How much protein do I really need to intake if my goal is to gain muscle at a healthy/lean way at a decent pace without trying to bulk like crazy?? I've heard the range be between 1-2 grams per pound...

Thanks guys.
 
viking805fan said:
On another quick note and example. I've been eating about 2800 calories daily and it seems like my hunger has gone up slightly. Kinda seems like my body is asking for more? Unless im just mentally going crazy. lol. Also, I am currently splitting my macros at 40/40/20 and it seems sometimes like I don't feel satisfied or full.

For example, here are my official diet numbers for yesterday...

Fats = 50grams (10 grams from Saturated)
Carbs = 327 grams (Fiber= 54grams & Sugars 114grams)
Proteins = 294 grams

Another quick question: How much protein do I really need to intake if my goal is to gain muscle at a healthy/lean way at a decent pace without trying to bulk like crazy?? I've heard the range be between 1-2 grams per pound...

Thanks guys.
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Way too much protein and too little fat. Protein intake should be a minimum .84g/lb, I think or somewhere around there for the minimum. You can probably get away with 200-220 grams if you wanted a higher protein intake. Saturated fats are bad for you either. They help with your hormones. Are you gaining weight, if not, and that is your goal, your body is telling you to eat more by being hungry. With the lower protein, you could up your fats which might help you feel fuller too.
 
viking805fan said:
I will definitely check out that podcast and try to limit some of my cardio at the gym. I'll still do my 30 min cardio at work during lunch. I hate sitting down for most of the day in the office environment.
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A good idea. Sitting down for prolonged periods without interspersing with physical activity is not a good thing
 
The Solution said:
You never read my first post
your 170 and eating 290g of protein?
Please tell me why?
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im 170 and was told to consume no less than 350g of pro by a nutritional coach while keeping fat below 50g.....I shook my head
 
The Solution said:
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Philosophies, Macro intake, training , and cardio articles for you to understand and help set up what you need to do before moving forward towards more supplements or advanced workout routines.
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Your diet setup was in this link
The cardio reccomendaions are in the links
and how much protein you needed were in these links

Did you even read them?
 
The Solution said:
Your diet setup was in this linkThe cardio reccomendaions are in the linksand how much protein you needed were in these linksDid you even read them?
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I did read them, but I was telling you guys the diet plan that I have been following for the last few weeks. Probably about 6 weeks now. I had heard from a trainer that I should try a low carb cycling diet. :-\ Right now, I'm in a period where I am open to all advice and see what works or not.
 
viking805fan said:
I did read them, but I was telling you guys the diet plan that I have been following for the last few weeks. Probably about 6 weeks now. I had heard from a trainer that I should try a low carb cycling diet. :-\ Right now, I'm in a period where I am open to all advice and see what works or not.
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Why would you go on a low carb cycling diet? If you tolerate carbs will and are trying to gain size, what good would that do for you?
Carbs are MORE protein sparing than protein once your minimums are met. So what good would reducing them on a low-carb cycling diet do?
Dont be fooled by what one "Trainer" Tells you, there are a lot of trainers out there who speak a lot of broscience (not saying this guy may or may not) but it sounds like hes leading you in the wrong way.

Drop your protein to around 180-200g tops
Get the rest from fats/carbs (Get at least 20% fats) and start at around 2700-2800 kcals and see how the mirror/scale changes over time.
Train Smart/Hard.

Some more good links:

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viking805fan said:
I did read them, but I was telling you guys the diet plan that I have been following for the last few weeks. Probably about 6 weeks now. I had heard from a trainer that I should try a low carb cycling diet. :-\ Right now, I'm in a period where I am open to all advice and see what works or not.
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Fwiw, Jose Antonio recommends a minimum 2g per pound of bodyweight for protein

Edit: per kilogram*
 
bugatti said:
Food shouldn't be about math. It should be about pleasure and nourishment. More calories doesn't always lead to weight gain.
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It can be about both. Why guesstimate your requirements when you can eat knowing you are getting adequete nourishment?

Most elite athletes will follow a food plan to some degree; just like i follow a training plan.

A plan is there for structure; i enjoy my training even though I plan it.
 
Jiigzz said:
It can be about both. Why guesstimate your requirements when you can eat knowing you are getting adequete nourishment?

Most elite athletes will follow a food plan to some degree; just like i follow a training plan.

A plan is there for structure; i enjoy my training even though I plan it.
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This is especially true for those of us who have a tendency to under or over eat.
 
fueledpassion said:
This is especially true for those of us who have a tendency to under or over eat.
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Over this past week I have increased my calorie intake by 300 calories to a total of around 2,750 calories and have noticed that sometimes at night I tend to feel hungry still even though I'm eating more and eat about 5-6 meals a day. I've been going to the gym about 5-6 per weeks just to let you guys know. Does this usually mean I should keep raising my calories until I feel completely full without a doubt when it comes to proper nutrition??

Thanks!
 
viking805fan said:
Over this past week I have increased my calorie intake by 300 calories to a total of around 2,750 calories and have noticed that sometimes at night I tend to feel hungry still even though I'm eating more and eat about 5-6 meals a day. I've been going to the gym about 5-6 per weeks just to let you guys know. Does this usually mean I should keep raising my calories until I feel completely full without a doubt when it comes to proper nutrition??

Thanks!
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Probably an ok guide is ur appetite, if ur not an endomorph.

U can always cut back to 4 days per week training schedule to help gain weight but this should be a last resort. If u are recovering properly with 6 days per week training then keep at it. Others will disagree, so expect that response to come soon.

If ur an undereater, then staying satiated is essential to ensure ur gaining weight but honestly, just because ur not packing onnlbs doesnt mean ur not gaining lean mass. There is such a thing as displacing fat with muscle tissue although it happens much slower than most guys can stomach.
 
viking805fan said:
Over this past week I have increased my calorie intake by 300 calories to a total of around 2,750 calories and have noticed that sometimes at night I tend to feel hungry still even though I'm eating more and eat about 5-6 meals a day. I've been going to the gym about 5-6 per weeks just to let you guys know. Does this usually mean I should keep raising my calories until I feel completely full without a doubt when it comes to proper nutrition??

Thanks!
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6 days a week is a tad much if you are not experienced. if you are still an intermediate you could be better off training 4x a week max (upper/lower , 5/3/1, Westside or a Push/Pull/Legs in a rotate fashion to still hit muscle groups 2x a week) which is optimal for most natural trainees.

If you are feeling hungry, that is a sign you may still need more kcals.
Hows the scale/mirror looking with the increase in kcals? That is key...Are you losing weight increaing kcals? is the mirror staying lean? If so that is a sign to increase kcals

This is a similar thing when your kcals are so low, you add in kcals and actually drop weight and get leaner.

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LTDFLE stands for Long-Term Delayed Fat Loss Effect (I’d note that I have also seen a LTDGE which is a Long-Term Delayed Growth Effect but that’s another topic for another article). Basically, this is the phenomenon whereby fat loss continues to occur even after the diet has been ended and/or calories have been raised back towards/to maintenance or even above. In the same way that fitness sometimes continues to increase after the period of heavy loading, it’s almost as if there is some type of fat loss inertia whereby the diet continues working even after the person ends it.

So what are you experiencing could be very normal.
What does your split look like?
 
The Solution said:
6 days a week is a tad much if you are not experienced. if you are still an intermediate you could be better off training 4x a week max (upper/lower , 5/3/1, Westside or a Push/Pull/Legs in a rotate fashion to still hit muscle groups 2x a week) which is optimal for most natural trainees.

If you are feeling hungry, that is a sign you may still need more kcals.
Hows the scale/mirror looking with the increase in kcals? That is key...Are you losing weight increaing kcals? is the mirror staying lean? If so that is a sign to increase kcals

This is a similar thing when your kcals are so low, you add in kcals and actually drop weight and get leaner.

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LTDFLE stands for Long-Term Delayed Fat Loss Effect (I’d note that I have also seen a LTDGE which is a Long-Term Delayed Growth Effect but that’s another topic for another article). Basically, this is the phenomenon whereby fat loss continues to occur even after the diet has been ended and/or calories have been raised back towards/to maintenance or even above. In the same way that fitness sometimes continues to increase after the period of heavy loading, it’s almost as if there is some type of fat loss inertia whereby the diet continues working even after the person ends it.

So what are you experiencing could be very normal.
What does your split look like?
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Since its been almost a week since my calorie increase I have been getting this "fatty" but the scale only changed by +0.75lb. Also, I have been long overdue for a workout plan change. I have decided that I will go to the gym 5 days a week now for my new workout plan and still hit my muscle groups twice a week. My macros are currently at 45% Carbs 35% Protein 20%fats and I've been going to the gym since I was 20yrs old. So about 5yrs of physical gym experience and my knowledge has been and still is a sponge to all new knowledge I've learned this past years by research and forums.

Below is my new workout plan and calorie goals.

Calories: 2600-2800 Macros: 45/35/20

Mondays: Legs and Abs (10 cardio warm up and 10min post workout)
Tusdays: Triceps and Chest (10 cardio warm up and 10min post workout)
Wednesdays: Biceps and Back (10 cardio warm up and 10min post workout)
Thursdays: Legs and Abs (10 cardio warm up and 10min post workout)
Friday: Supersets (biceps x triceps) and Shoulders (10 cardio warm up and 10min post workout)
Satuday: Off
Sunday: Off
 
Your only hitting shoulders, chest, and back once, not twice a week.. Kind of lost on how you said you were hitting each 2x a week?
 
The Solution said:
Your only hitting shoulders, chest, and back once, not twice a week.. Kind of lost on how you said you were hitting each 2x a week?
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On Friday, depending on if its biceps or triceps exercise I'll usually hit both muscles in one exercise like Bench (triceps and chest), Upper Pulley Row (Back and biceps) or sometimes Lat Pulldown (upperback, Lats and Biceps). Depends more on the exercises I plan for that day and how I feel I guess. :-)
 
hvactech said:
im 170 and was told to consume no less than 350g of pro by a nutritional coach while keeping fat below 50g.....I shook my head
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Haha where did you find that nutritional "coach"?!

OP, all of the info that you've got in this thread is spot on. If your stats are correct you don't need to do anything 'low-carb'. If anything you need a high carb diet. I will re-emphasize what Solution and the other guys have said...reduce the amount you workout. Less is more sometimes when it comes to lifting.

I would recommend:
Day 1: Chest/Shoulders/Tris
Day 2: off
Day 3: Back/Bis
Day 4: off
Day 5: Legs/Abs
Day 6: off

And continue to play around with your diet to see what works best for you.
 
2 week update:

I have now been consuming about 2,700 for two weeks and weight has gone up slight only by about 0.5lb. I usually weigh myself every Wednesday & Saturday morning. I'm thinking of increasing my my calories to 2,900 next week. My macros are currently 45/35/20.

My current new workout also started 2 weeks ago is...

Monday: Legs/Abs
Tuesday: Triceps/Chest
Wednesday: Biceps/Back & Shoulders
Thursday: Legs/Abs
Friday: Biceps/Triceps (upperbody) and Shoulders
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Off
 
This is gonna sound obvious, but if you're trying to bulk up and you're still feeling hungry, just keep eating more. At 5'11" and only 170, you have a lot of room to gain without turning into a slob.

Don't be worried that you will get fat or anything. As long as you're training properly and not eating like a complete idiot, you aren't going to put on too much fat to where it's a problem (let the mirror be your guide - you will know when you're pushing it too far).

I would drop your protein a bit and up your fat too, like a few others have already mentioned. I'm the same height as you and recently went from 185 to 200 following a roughly 40/30/30 carbs/protein/fat ratio and didn't gain much body fat at all (this was over like a 6 month period though, so it was a slow bulk). I wasn't tracking down to every last calorie, but I'd say I was doing 3,000-3,500 calories per day on average.
 
JXiiXViii said:
This is gonna sound obvious, but if you're trying to bulk up and you're still feeling hungry, just keep eating more. At 5'11" and only 170, you have a lot of room to gain without turning into a slob.

Don't be worried that you will get fat or anything. As long as you're training properly and not eating like a complete idiot, you aren't going to put on too much fat to where it's a problem (let the mirror be your guide - you will know when you're pushing it too far).

I would drop your protein a bit and up your fat too, like a few others have already mentioned. I'm the same height as you and recently went from 185 to 200 following a roughly 40/30/30 carbs/protein/fat ratio and didn't gain much body fat at all (this was over like a 6 month period though, so it was a slow bulk). I wasn't tracking down to every last calorie, but I'd say I was doing 3,000-3,500 calories per day on average.
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Thanks for the feedback. I used to weigh 255lbs a few years back and like most people I sometimes fear about getting fat again if I increase my food intake. How often should I wait to increase the caloric intake if I don't see a big change in size or weight? As of now It has been two weeks since the change. Should I increase another 100-200 calories and then give that increase a two week time period to see if I have gained weight? Or should it be more than 2 weeks to see results in the change of diet?

Thanks for the info guys.
 
viking805fan said:
Thanks for the feedback. I used to weigh 255lbs a few years back and like most people I sometimes fear about getting fat again if I increase my food intake. How often should I wait to increase the caloric intake if I don't see a big change in size or weight? As of now It has been two weeks since the change. Should I increase another 100-200 calories and then give that increase a two week time period to see if I have gained weight? Or should it be more than 2 weeks to see results in the change of diet?

Thanks for the info guys.
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Yeah I understand you're worried about going back to being overweight again, but as you know, it doesn't happen overnight. You aren't gonna increase your food intake this week and wake up next week 30 pounds overweight haha.

In my opinion, you're increasing too slowly based on where you are right now as far as your calories go. You're probably barely at a maintenance level as-is, so I personally would push it a bit more than 100-200 at a time, at least for now. If you were already at say 3,500 cals per day and not gaining much weight, then I would say go slowly to find your sweet spot (100-200 per week/2 weeks) because at 3,500, you wouldn't be far off.

At under 3k though, you have some room. I'd push it to maybe 3,200 right now and see where you are in 2 weeks and adjust from there.

Everyone is different though - just gotta find what works for you.
 
Thanks! Your probably right, I'll just keep raising the calories count until I find a good number where I'll gain the weight steadily. Perhaps 1-1.5lbs per week a good goal? Without gaining too much fat too fast?
 
viking805fan said:
Thanks! Your probably right, I'll just keep raising the calories count until I find a good number where I'll gain the weight steadily. Perhaps 1-1.5lbs per week a good goal? Without gaining too much fat too fast?
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1 lb per week would be a good starting point, but keep in mind looking at it on a weekly basis might not be the most accurate because there's just so many variables and fluctuations. Hell, most of us see daily fluctuations up to 5 pounds at times. It's more about how you're responding over several weeks and even months.

Just get to the point where your strength is continually going up every workout, you're looking fuller in the mirror, and you're seeing some sort of upward movement on the scale every week or few weeks. Don't get too caught up in the number on a weekly basis though, unless of course it's like 5 extra pounds per week or something crazy, then you would want to slow it down. But that shouldn't be an issue if you're only like 500 calories over maintenance or so.

It's really hard to give a cut and dry answer - you just gotta kinda feel it out and see how your body responds personally.
 
Thanks! I'll aim for 1lb a week. While we are on the nutrition topic. I've read different articles about fiber (soluble and insoluble) and the recommended intake of 30-38 for the average male. Some say more is good and others say it can be bad and cause mineral deficiency. I have been averaging about 55-75 Grams for fiber for weeks and want to what your guys input is on this topic. Thanks.
 
viking805fan said:
Thanks! I'll aim for 1lb a week. While we are on the nutrition topic. I've read different articles about fiber (soluble and insoluble) and the recommended intake of 30-38 for the average male. Some say more is good and others say it can be bad and cause mineral deficiency. I have been averaging about 55-75 Grams for fiber for weeks and want to what your guys input is on this topic. Thanks.
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I try not go over 50g a day. I aim for 40-50g. Yes, if you have too much, it can cause a mineral deficiency. Instead of getting digested and absorbed, minerals will be lost in fecal. Also, too much fiber can cause you to go number 2 too often which can lead to lose stool which can lead to dehydration, cramping, etc.
 
AntM1564 said:
I try not go over 50g a day. I aim for 40-50g. Yes, if you have too much, it can cause a mineral deficiency. Instead of getting digested and absorbed, minerals will be lost in fecal. Also, too much fiber can cause you to go number 2 too often which can lead to lose stool which can lead to dehydration, cramping, etc.
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Good point you made about eating too much fiber. I'ma stay away from them Questbars! Way too much fiber! haha
 
Quick update: it's been almost 3 weeks since I've made another calorie increase and I am currently eating approximately 2,750 calories per day. I weight myself about 2 weeks every Wednesday and Saturday morning and it seems that I've gained about 2.5lbs. Currently sitting at 172.5lbs. My strength has gone up slightly at the gym as I was not able to do 225lbs on decline and flat bench and can now do 5 consecutive reps. Should I increase my calories again or keep it at this number until I see no more increase in weight gain or strength?

Thanks.
 
viking805fan said:
Quick update: it's been almost 3 weeks since I've made another calorie increase and I am currently eating approximately 2,750 calories per day. I weight myself about 2 weeks every Wednesday and Saturday morning and it seems that I've gained about 2.5lbs. Currently sitting at 172.5lbs. My strength has gone up slightly at the gym as I was not able to do 225lbs on decline and flat bench and can now do 5 consecutive reps. Should I increase my calories again or keep it at this number until I see no more increase in weight gain or strength?

Thanks.
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If you went from not being able to hit 225 at all to repping it 5 times in 3 weeks, that's a very nice jump. Good work man.

Body weight is increasing too, so it looks like what you're doin is working. Just take it slow and if you start stalling out, increase cals more.
 
JXiiXViii said:
If you went from not being able to hit 225 at all to repping it 5 times in 3 weeks, that's a very nice jump. Good work man. Body weight is increasing too, so it looks like what you're doin is working. Just take it slow and if you start stalling out, increase cals more.
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Thanks! About almost a month ago I was able to do 205lbs at 5-7 reps and have been working up to 225lbs up to now. Also my leg strength has gone up too, I definitely need to continue doing barbell squats but I have trouble sometimes doing deadlines. I feel most off the tension on my gluten and hamstrings even though I was able to do a full set of 10 reps at 135lbs.
 
JXiiXViii said:
If you went from not being able to hit 225 at all to repping it 5 times in 3 weeks, that's a very nice jump. Good work man.

Body weight is increasing too, so it looks like what you're doin is working. Just take it slow and if you start stalling out, increase cals more.
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This. keep the gains coming and food coming.
 
Progress Update!!!

It's been about 8 weeks since I raised my calories and I am currently eating 2,800 calories a day at 45% Carbs, 35% Proteins and 20% Fats. I have been weighing myself weekly and I have gained 7 pounds in 8 weeks. Started at 169lbs and I am currently at 176lbs. What would be a good goal number to stop at before cutting? I was thinking of 185lbs. I am 5'10, age 25.

Thanks!
 
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