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Bulking- Non methyl's that don't convert to estrogen?

pl8tes said:
Epiandro converts to DHT. Formeron inhibts DHT formation and activity. Am I wrong with this? I'm still new, this is just what I'm understanding from reading up on the compounds.
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Yes you're wrong.

Formeron is an aromatase inhibitor. It prevents aromatase from converting aromatizable testosterone to estrogen.

A 5-a reductase inhibitor like finasteride would prevent conversion of epi andro in certain circumstances.
 
Mystere3 said:
Yes you're wrong.

Formeron is an aromatase inhibitor. It prevents aromatase from converting aromatizable testosterone to estrogen.

A 5-a reductase inhibitor like finasteride would prevent conversion of epi andro in certain circumstances.
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Just checked the black lion research site. "Acts as a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor"

Looks like I'll stay away from it.


So back to square one again.....
I could run a low dose of epitren or something tren based alongside with lots of prolactrone and likely be fine. Trying to keep the liver LIVEing here :D
 
You should read the primary literature, don't just rely on links.

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The article also notes that ANDROSTENEDIONE is a competitive inhibitor of 5-a reductase. In fact any 5a-reduceable anabolic including epi-andro is a competitive inhibitor of 5a-reductase by acting as a substrate. You'll be fine taking epi andro with formeron.
 
Mystere3 said:
I'd prolly run it 6 weeks as you'll get 120 caps from a bottle. 50/75/75/75/75/75
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Well, I'm already on the halo cycle and don't want to extend that. By the time it gets here, I'll only have four weeks left.

EDIT
Is it even worth running the tr3st? I can't find much on actual gains, it's always stacked with tr3n or something harsh.
 
you can run the non-methyl beyond the end of your halo. Otherwise you could run it at 100 for 4 weeks (although you'll probably have some caps left)
 
I'm not trying to go on a rant here... but is it just me or has this thread, and to a large degree this section of the forum devolved into certain members constantly plugging olympus labs products? I'm not saying they aren't a quality company, and I've never used them so I can't speak to that. It just seems odd how many times their products come up, and maybe it's just because their reps are more active.

Anyway, sorry for the high jack, and just for the record I am not affiliated with any company.

Back to the main topic, @ pl8tes, if you want the best non methyl to add to a bulk, it's kinda hard if you don't want to pin. But if you don't want to inject that's totally cool and respectable, it's you're body. Trestolone is a good option for a bulk, but make sure you have ALL the ancillaries just in case.
 
uprightrows said:
I'm not trying to go on a rant here... but is it just me or has this thread, and to a large degree this section of the forum devolved into certain members constantly plugging olympus labs products? I'm not saying they aren't a quality company, and I've never used them so I can't speak to that. It just seems odd how many times their products come up, and maybe it's just because their reps are more active.

Anyway, sorry for the high jack, and just for the record I am not affiliated with any company.

Back to the main topic, @ pl8tes, if you want the best non methyl to add to a bulk, it's kinda hard if you don't want to pin. But if you don't want to inject that's totally cool and respectable, it's you're body. Trestolone is a good option for a bulk, but make sure you have ALL the ancillaries just in case.
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I think the whole Olympus labs thing is because of them being a relatively new company. They also have higher doses per pill than most others.

What other ancillaries would I need? The formestane on cycle + proper pct, but is there anything else? Being gyno prone, I'm extremely worried about that aspect. It keeps making me lean back towards msten or 1 andro. The other options are also more cost effective.

So in other words, unless the tr3st will make a noticeable difference, I'm still not 100% set on it due to the overall price of adding it in to the cycle and the potential sides.
 
Formestane is a good start, and exemestane would also be advisable. Also, I don't know what your budget is like and if your'e gyno-prone or have a preexisting sensitivity to it I might reconsider using trestolone. If you do choose to use it, I would definitely have some prami or even better cabergoline just in case, and if you get that don't use it unless you notice really oblivious symptoms.

But at the end of the day I'm just some guy on a forum, your own research and knowledge of your body and what you put in it is much more valuable than anything I can tell you.
 
uprightrows said:
Formestane is a good start, and exemestane would also be advisable. Also, I don't know what your budget is like and if your'e gyno-prone or have a preexisting sensitivity to it I might reconsider using trestolone. If you do choose to use it, I would definitely have some prami or even better cabergoline just in case, and if you get that don't use it unless you notice really oblivious symptoms.

But at the end of the day I'm just some guy on a forum, your own research and knowledge of your body and what you put in it is much more valuable than anything I can tell you.
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You might just be some guy on a forum, but you're definitely more knowledgeable than me. I can use info that I find here to do some more research and help me better decide.

Trestolone won't be an option for me either, the pre existing gyno is too risky with it.

I' think I'm back to tossing in msten or 1 andro. Yet to decide, but the toxicity shouldn't be anything too crazy with proper support and hydration. 1andro isn't toxic, but it's also expensive for what it does.
 
You don't need anti-prolactin agents with oral trest, in my experience. It is a 19-nor but it stimulates prolactin much less than tren. Some people running IM trest at high dose had slightly elevated prolactin (18-20) but you would have to take 300-400 mg of oral trest to get that level of prolactin increase.
 
you absolutely should not run msten at the end of a cycle. As a standalone agent it might not be that toxic but running it late in a cycle is asking for liver failure. Another guy on the forum just had this happen recently.

Honestly I would have fixed your gyno before running anything but if you're going to run anything I would run a non-methyl.

200 mg of hexadrone would be an option that wouldn't have the risk of gyno.
 
pl8tes said:
You might just be some guy on a forum, but you're definitely more knowledgeable than me. I can use info that I find here to do some more research and help me better decide.

Trestolone won't be an option for me either, the pre existing gyno is too risky with it.

I' think I'm back to tossing in msten or 1 andro. Yet to decide, but the toxicity shouldn't be anything too crazy with proper support and hydration. 1andro isn't toxic, but it's also expensive for what it does.
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I appreciate the complement, and it seems like you are taking a a very responsible approach.

Keep weighing your options (and yourself lol). 1 andro is a feasible option, but costs $$ and you need to watch the sides, msten is going to be a lot to handle at the end of a cycle and even worse sides, like mystery stated. Hexadrone sounds very safe, I think it is just test with a chloro group and I'm not sure about the bioavailability of it when administered orally, but whatever. Even with a single comound, regardless of what you add... if you are dedicated and hit it hard you will see results.
 
Mystere3 said:
you absolutely should not run msten at the end of a cycle. As a standalone agent it might not be that toxic but running it late in a cycle is asking for liver failure. Another guy on the forum just had this happen recently.

Honestly I would have fixed your gyno before running anything but if you're going to run anything I would run a non-methyl.

200 mg of hexadrone would be an option that wouldn't have the risk of gyno.
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I have yet to see a hexadrone log. That's the only reason I wouldn't recommend it, no idea on the results/sides people get from it
 
stann123 said:
I have yet to see a hexadrone log. That's the only reason I wouldn't recommend it, no idea on the results/sides people get from it
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I ran 200 of hexadrone last year with epi last year. It wasn't bad. Probably added 4-5 lb LBM to what I'd normally expect from epi. No additional sides.
 
What exactly is it that would cause liver issues with msten at the end of a cycle? Is the liver more vulnerable at this time? It's not like I'm on an 8-10wk cycle, just 6, introducing it for the last 4.

What are the 1andro sides? It doesn't convert. Only thing I can find are libido, but epiandro would combat that.

Hexadrone has no actual logs/reviews, that makes me extremely apprehensive.

Any info on furaza 300?
 
What exactly is it that would cause liver issues with msten at the end of a cycle? Is the liver more vulnerable at this time? It's not like I'm on an 8-10wk cycle, just 6, introducing it for the last 4.

What are the 1andro sides? It doesn't convert. Only thing I can find are libido, but epiandro would combat that.

Hexadrone has no actual logs/reviews, that makes me extremely apprehensive.

Any info on furaza 300?


I could do 4 andro, but again, I'd need to run formeron with it and that would be outrageously expensive for the results.
 
Yes it's more vulnerable because you're hitting it with two methyls on a long cycle. I wouldn't run msten more than 4 even by itself.
 
Mystere3 said:
Yes it's more vulnerable because you're hitting it with two methyls on a long cycle. I wouldn't run msten more than 4 even by itself.
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I've been reading some logs of people that ran msten+halo or even superdmz 3.0+halo with no issues. Did they just get lucky? Halo+superdmz would seem like a quick way to lots of side effects due to all the compounds going on.
 
pl8tes said:
I've been reading some logs of people that ran msten+halo or even superdmz 3.0+halo with no issues. Did they just get lucky? Halo+superdmz would seem like a quick way to lots of side effects due to all the compounds going on.
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Well did they get bloods to see if they got lucky?
 
pl8tes said:
I've been reading some logs of people that ran msten+halo or even superdmz 3.0+halo with no issues. Did they just get lucky? Halo+superdmz would seem like a quick way to lots of side effects due to all the compounds going on.
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yeah most likely they were lucky. The thing with stacking is that most people do it stupidly. There is NO POINT in randomly stacking compounds without looking into if they might have any sort of synergy. Why would you stack sdmz with halo? What would you possibly gain from it over sdmz3 alone? Its just idiocy. I don't understand why people run big oral cycles like that, it makes no sense. If you want more gains than you're getting with orals, pin.
 
Mystere3 said:
yeah most likely they were lucky. The thing with stacking is that most people do it stupidly. There is NO POINT in randomly stacking compounds without looking into if they might have any sort of synergy. Why would you stack sdmz with halo? What would you possibly gain from it over sdmz3 alone? Its just idiocy. I don't understand why people run big oral cycles like that, it makes no sense. If you want more gains than you're getting with orals, pin.
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I'm not one for pinning, but I can agree with you there. No need to use that many compounds. Over 5 harsh compounds? No thanks.


Some of the logs I've been looking up have been pure idiocy. Can't imagine what bloodpressure or lethargy was like on those cycles.
 
Mystere3 said:
Yes it's more vulnerable because you're hitting it with two methyls on a long cycle. I wouldn't run msten more than 4 even by itself.
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But what about running Hdrol and msten as a stack and keeping it to 4 weeks total for the cycle? I realize OP is already past this point but wouldn't that have been a better plan from the beginning?

I think he should bump up to 100 mg halodrol, run thru 6 weeks, then PCT. Just forget about adding another compound at this point. Buy another bottle of halodrol. But if you insist on adding in a nonmethyl , then hexadrone is the way to go, like Mystere3 already said. Hexadrone is a good stacker for added results and no sides.
 
It would have been better but still not optimal. The issue is that it will increase sides but not gains really. Adding 100 of hdrol to msten will be about the same as 200 of hexadrone to msten but with far more sides,
 
Just ordered more halo. 100mg halo, epiandro at 6 caps. Doses in the morning and at night.

Advice on how to keep fat gains minimal here? Sure, I could just lose it afterwards I guess. Tossing in 15-20 minutes of cardio post workout. Diet is in check, on a 1kcal surplus after factoring in calories from lifting/cardio in an attempt to get as much strength as I can here. Any benefit of running a non stim fat burner, or just run some heavy stimulant burners after pct and cut as usual?
 
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