snagencyV2.0
Legend
catchy tunes :yup:
It's TRENbelievable! 1ifeblood's tren cycle
- Thread starter 1ifeblood
- Start date
1ifeblood
Well-known member
Glad ya like em!
1ifeblood
Well-known member
After this week, I'm really wanting to start dropping calories. I'm in the perfect state to drop into fat burning mode without sacrificing muscle. I want to be lean when I finish this cycle and I'm not feeling like at my current calories, that's going to happen...just seeing how my body is responding. I'm putting on lbm without gaining fat which is AWESOME, but I'd rather be lean and chiseled not muscley and fat. My plan is to start lowering protein to 200G. With everything staying the same, that drops my calories to 2500. And 200G protein would have to be plenty to maintain lbm especially on tren. After a week, I'll assess what my body is doing and adjust...dropping carbs as needed. I don't want to drop fats below 100G because they just provide too many benefits. Anyway...thoughts on this are welcome.
DangerDave
Well-known member
Don't mess with calories. I will explain when I'm home. After adding size by dropping calories your body is more inclined to get rid of the brand new muscle you haven't matured yet (that requires more calories to feed) instead of getting rid of fat.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
That's interesting! I've never heard that before but it definitely makes sense. I'm anxious to here more.
NattyForLife
Well-known member
This is true! My friend was taking all kinds of stuff. Whinny, test E and maybe tren! But my point is he was huuuuggge when he was "on" and the minute he came off his run, he swapped straight to cutting. He lost a ton a muscle! He told me he lost 17lbs in 2 weeks. That is just insane! In sure DD can explain this better though! Just a story!
snagencyV2.0
Legend
yeah I would lean along the lines of not messing with cals as well at this point (as I mentioned awhile ago) -- BUT, a reshuffling of the macro construction would certainly be in order..
fawk no do not lower protein -- it's too low as is
the fats however, why you so inclined to hold on to them?? that is first thing you need to do, reduce them while increasing protein and potentially carbs as well, and staying in same caloric range as you are currently, IMO
fawk no do not lower protein -- it's too low as is
the fats however, why you so inclined to hold on to them?? that is first thing you need to do, reduce them while increasing protein and potentially carbs as well, and staying in same caloric range as you are currently, IMO
snagencyV2.0
Legend
pretty basic reason why you do not cut in PCT -- yet very common error a lot of ppl make
silly
1ifeblood
Well-known member
Really...protein is too low at 300G? That's 1.5xBW and I'm on tren which is known to substantially increase macro effectiveness. I'm not doubting what you're saying snags, you've got a lot more experience than me and a body that shows you know what you're talking about...guess I'm just looking for a little more insight.
I like keeping my fats around 100G divided up 3 ways between sats and unsats because it determines brain health, cell structure, and regulates hormones...plus it's easier to hit my calories with some fats :-D
1ifeblood
Well-known member
I definitely know you do NOT cut calories in PCT. This is the time you need to do everything you can to preserve what you've gained, to negate catabolism as much as possible...heavy weights, lots of carbs/protein, and plenty of rest.
snagencyV2.0
Legend
all I saw was you talking about dropping to 200..
300 is fine (altho yes I can and do go much higher than that myself
)so.....that means you are only pulling down ~200g carbs right now?
yeah, I would lower fats and increase carbs then...I'm not anti-fat or anything do not get me wrong, but 100g fats in a <3000 cal diet is pretty tall proportion, when you want to lean & tighten things up especially..
if you are doing keto diet is one thing..but then you would have to drop carbs substantially from your 200g level in that event
NattyForLife
Well-known member
all I saw was you talking about dropping to 200.. 300 is fine (altho yes I can and do go much higher than that myself
Im guessing you dont mess with ketogenic diets?
DangerDave
Well-known member
Ok quick details here. So you add new mass during a bulk. That new muscle isn't mature yet, it will actually take months to mature into quality muscle that will stay around. To get that muscle it took calories. Think of them as babies growing and hitting a growth spurt.. They need calories to keep growing. Your body built that muscle BECAUSE it had extra calories to support the growth. If you take those calories away all you are saying is that you don't need that new muscle anymore and your busy will realize the calorie intake to support it isn't there so BAM goodbye new muscle.
The idea of losing fat after adding muscle is appealing because you want to show it off. But that's not how it works. Calorie manipulation isn't always the best way to lose fat because that can sacrifice muscle. The best way to use muscle is metabolism manipulation. Bodybuilders bulk on 5-6000 calories but to cut do it on 3-4000 easy. That is still enough calories to grow and their body knows that. They manipulate their metabolism to burning fat for fuel instead of cutting calories too low. Dropping calories is fine BUT it's better to decrease them to still above maintenance and kill the "gap" between maintenance and deficit by speeding up your metabolism. They way to do that is nutrient timing, manipulation and the evil word CARDIO.
If 1lb of fat us 3500 calories that is 500 calories a day in 7 days of the week. Now as an estimate lets say your maintenance calorie intake is 2800 calories. Your straight up bulk is 3800 calories. That's a 1000 calorie gap to play with. Now by bringing in cardio to burn 250 extra calories and say you burn an extra 250 in a workout (prolly closer to 500-750 easy but for math sake 250). Here's some math to ponder-
Bulk- 3800 calories ED 7days a week= 26,600
Maintenance 2800= 19,600 every week
That's a 7000 calorie gap
1lb of fat is 3500 calories (less than 2x your calorie gap).
It is unreasonable to think by going to maintenance calories AND working out you will lose 2lbs of fat a week and keep any of that new muscle. To manipulate your metabolism you do it like this...
Cut that 1000 calorie gap in 2. So now you are eating 3300 calories ed. Still above maintenance but enough to grow slowly. Bring in cardio now and assuming you burn a minimum of 1750 calories a week just lifting you only need enough cardio to burn 1750 calories a week ( 1/2lb of fat). Now you are eating in surplus to keep an anabolic state YET doing cardio to manipulate your body to burn fat for fuel.
Nutrient manipulation- protein is muscle sparing (amino acids). So you need protein to feed muscle and carbs for fuel. Knowing that and assuming your lifting is done in the evening logic would say that our carbs should be brought in during the afternoon to prepare for lifting and then immediately after to refeed them. Protein should be consistent during the day to keep anabolism high and keep from going catabolic. So if you are carb depleted the most in the morning (carbs are energy) and you are trying to use fat for fuel.... Logic says that's the time for cardio. Protein should be used pre cardio and post cardio (BCAAs during if possible) to prevent muscle wasting. That glorious flat depleted feeling in the morning when you are dry is your body saying "hey I don't have carbs for fuel feed me!" Well fuk you body burn fat instead bitch carbs are for weight time and my "pump fuel".
to sum it up... Don't fuk with your calories to burn fat at the end of a bulk. If you got fat on a bulk or went into a bulk holding too much fat then that's your fault for being a greedy fuk and having a whack ass diet. Don't punish your body by giving it muscle and calories just to take it away. Steroids shouldn't be used to maintain muscle in a defecit. They should be used to burn fat and build muscle in a surplus because trust me it works better that way.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
I've done keto once and was amazed at the obvious shift that happens when your body switches over. I didn't stick with it for very long because...I like carbs lol.
So, Steve...how much do I need to drop fats? I think I would be able to manage 60G without having to change what I eat too much. I'll have to play with my layout a bit bit just knowing what I eat I can see where simple changes would be made. And increasing carbs is not a problem at all.
So, Steve...how much do I need to drop fats? I think I would be able to manage 60G without having to change what I eat too much. I'll have to play with my layout a bit bit just knowing what I eat I can see where simple changes would be made. And increasing carbs is not a problem at all.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
Alright DD...you make a lot of sense and everything you say is along the same understanding that I have gained over time...except the idea of muscle needing to mature to become permanent (I like that). Now I'm going to throw a little curve ball because one thing I find a lot of is information based on the assumption that one is training in the evening, which I do not. I'm up at 5am, down my pre with OJ and hit the gym at 530. I have to be out by 7 so I can get home and ready to work. As soon as I get home from the gym it's skim chocolate milk with my protein. Then I have another concoction that i drink about 2 hours later consisting of whole eggs, whites, plain/skim Greek yogurt, natty PB (or sometimes just olive oil) and either a banana or low sodium V8 (I love V8). I've usually taken in around 1000kcal by 10am with equal parts protein/carbs. Around 1pm I have a carb/protein meal (potatoes/veggies/chicken) and as the day goes on I drop carbs and eat more protein/fats. I'm working out 5 days a week and am probably burning calories at the upper end of the spectrum with my workouts. But my real question is how you think nutrient timing should play into effect when following this kind of schedule.
Btw, my intention was never to go below maintenance but to hover around it. I still want to put on lbm while shedding some bf. But I'm definitely not going to drop calories now, in fact I'm wondering if I shouldn't try to find a couple days a week to do some HIIT while increasing protein/carbs to hit 3500 calories (maintenance has always been right around 2500 for me).
Btw, my intention was never to go below maintenance but to hover around it. I still want to put on lbm while shedding some bf. But I'm definitely not going to drop calories now, in fact I'm wondering if I shouldn't try to find a couple days a week to do some HIIT while increasing protein/carbs to hit 3500 calories (maintenance has always been right around 2500 for me).
NattyForLife
Well-known member
You drink the raw eggs?
snagencyV2.0
Legend
I mess with all kinds of diets
not so much anymore, but I used to be really into the keto lifestyle couple yrs back, put on some nice (albeit s-l-o-w) muscle gains and stayed pretty lean/ripped all along the way
60 is pretty low..i mean you could do that, but I would figure out where you want carbs to be first (the more the better, if appropriately and intelligently placed)...I've done keto once and was amazed at the obvious shift that happens when your body switches over. I didn't stick with it for very long because...I like carbs lol.
So, Steve...how much do I need to drop fats? I think I would be able to manage 60G without having to change what I eat too much. I'll have to play with my layout a bit bit just knowing what I eat I can see where simple changes would be made. And increasing carbs is not a problem at all.
I used to
the taste was never really pleasing, the texture was actually quite nasty -- but boy, did you sure feel manly drinking that slimy sh1t..
1ifeblood
Well-known member
1ifeblood
Well-known member
I mess with all kinds of diets
not so much anymore, but I used to be really into the keto lifestyle couple yrs back, put on some nice (albeit s-l-o-w) muscle gains and stayed pretty lean/ripped all along the way
60 is pretty low..i mean you could do that, but I would figure out where you want carbs to be first (the more the better, if appropriately and intelligently placed)...
I used to
the taste was never really pleasing, the texture was actually quite nasty -- but boy, did you sure feel manly drinking that slimy sh1t..
I'm going to have to play around with my setup and see what I come up with.
The drinking raw eggs was something my dad had me do when I was in HS training for football. I'll drink a cup of egg whites too by itself. Really it just tastes like salty water. But the eggs are mixed in with other things, usually protein powder, peanut butter, cinnamon, stevia...so I don't really taste the eggs.
DangerDave
Well-known member
Training in the evening or morning doesn't REALLY matter as long as diet is structured properly. I prefer evening and cardio in the morning for simplicity and because I train better after having 4-5 meals in me.
You just switch your diet backwards in essence. Wake up, carb load 1hr prior to training and a very large meal of 50-60g of protein and around 30% of total carb intake. I eat about .5g of carbs per lb of bodyweight post workout and that's what I recommend most people. So a. 200lb guy is eating 100g of carbs. 10-30g simple in the form of fruit or even a snickers bar if bulking the rest in complex carbs like potatoes, rice or a carb shake.
Your protein intake should be spread out. Regardless you want your 2 largest servings 1st thing after waking and post workout. Usually a fast absorbed protein like a whey shake. 50g is always my target.
I advocate a nutrient split of 1.5g of protein per lb, 1.5g carbs per lb and .7g fat per lb for anyone to start out. From there increase carbs to the 2-2.5g and after that is reached start increasing fats by .1g per day per week and track progress. Thats my basic bulking recommendations. For cutting protein is 1.5g, 1.5g carbs and .7g fat and decrease carbs to 1.2g for a week then drop fats slightly by .1-.2g and track from there. If you are tracking properly you will see the difference and know how to adjust. DIET AND TRAINING CONSISTENCY IS KEY TO THIS PART!
Feed carbs around training.
Stop carbs about 4 hours before bed
Meals 4-6 hour gap before bed should have the most fats.
Protein spread out evenly at around 40-60g per meal.
Intraworkout carbs are great for morning training. 40-50g (I like Gatorade or Karbolyn is good too). Mathis helps force carbs into muscles for energy and pump after waking up depleted.
Avoid a bunch if fruit carbs except pre and post workout because they don't curb hunger like complex carbs and liver glycogen fills fast and you want to avoid overspill and insulin spikes outside of training windows.
That's pretty much covers basic stuff. You need to experiment and see what works for you best.
NattyForLife
Well-known member
Its better to cook eggs. Protein from raw eggs dont get digested as well as cooked!I mess with all kinds of diets
snagencyV2.0
Legend
wasme
Legend
Nothing More .. have some great tunes... Have never heard of the other band.
This thread is always a good read.. Guys know their sh*t.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
What I've read and from my many friends who are cooks (plus my experiences in restaurant management) the salmonella you get from eggs are on the shell itself, not the guts of it. Give the egg a good wash before cracking it open and you don't have to worry about it. Oh...and Rocky did it so it must be okay.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
DangerDave
That is some great info, bro! I've come across a lot of that info before and adhere to most of it, but the specifics you provide in how to make adjustments at what times is ****ing awesome! That's the kind of info I've been trying to find for a long time but there's not really anything out there because it just takes experience and experimentation to see what works. But at least now I have a basis to work from.
So now you're telling me I need to get up at 4am to eat before I workout? Oh man...lol.
That is some great info, bro! I've come across a lot of that info before and adhere to most of it, but the specifics you provide in how to make adjustments at what times is ****ing awesome! That's the kind of info I've been trying to find for a long time but there's not really anything out there because it just takes experience and experimentation to see what works. But at least now I have a basis to work from.
So now you're telling me I need to get up at 4am to eat before I workout? Oh man...lol.
Magdalena
Well-known member
Muscle eggs ..... I love it....
They come in different flavours too...
I like the chocolate flavour...
Sh!t tastes like chocolate milk, it's sooo good ...
DangerDave
Well-known member
Not really. Make a carb/protein shake before bed. Set your alarm, wake up chug that bitch and go back to sleep for an hour. I do it on my weekends at 530am and go back to sleep till 715 then wake up and eat again
bean5er
Well-known member
This^^^^
I'm up at 300 am drink my shake (hydrolyzed casein with oats and coconut oil) lay on the couch for 30 mins or so and then I'm off.
booneman77
Legend
not to mention the fact that its basically the equivalent of a mouthful of jizz...
booneman77
Legend
Same here. I set two alarms at 4:30 and 5. 4:30 I wake up and take my burners and such and by 5 theyre all kicked in. Makes getting out of bed easier too with a little caffeine already kicking in your system.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
The last bulk I did over the winter, I did this very thing. 4am I drank my shake, sometimes I fell back to sleep but usually I just played Xbox until 5am when I took my preWO and by 530 I was in the gym. I didn't set this cycle up that way because I want really considering it a bulk...but seeing how my body is responding, especially over this last week, I'm definitely shifting into that mind frame.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
Muscle eggs ..... I love it....
They come in different flavours too...
I like the chocolate flavour...
Sh!t tastes like chocolate milk, it's sooo good ...
Glad to see you emerge from the shadows, Mags. You should show your pretty face more often.
RegisterJr
Legend
DangerDave
Well-known member
I stopped thinking "bulk" and "cut" phases really. It disrupts the main focus of bodybuilding which is to carry more muscle at a lower bodyfat. I would rather lean bulk and add muscle while maintaining fat then shift into a maintenance phase to adjust my diet then back to the lean bulk mindset. It's a waste of my hard work and time to add muscle and fat then try to cut the fat then add more muscle and fat then cut again. Fuk that, it doesn't make logical sense. Yeah muscle gains might be slower but over time it adds up because I'm constantly adding muscle and maturing it over the year instead of 6 months of bulk then 6 months of trimming off fat. I can eat clean all year, train my ass off, add muscle and drop fat. Constantly growing and losing fat is much more appealing to me.
bean5er
Well-known member
This as well lol
Why the **** guys add 10lbs of fat for 2 lbs of muscle is beyond me. Granted there are guys who can get away with it but for most is dumb.
It makes getting in shape a lot harder each time. You slowly lose your insulin sensitivity pumps diminish etc.
I try not to let myself go above 12% at the highest.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
This was the mistake I made last winter when I ran dbol/test E...I thought I'd just eat whatever I could get my hands on and get great results. I definitely added lbm but also too much fat. I want happy with the way I looked at all. Didn't help that I was sick for the last week of my cycle and into PCT. But I really like the idea of getting to the bf that I want and just slowly build muscle from there. I'm fine if it takes longer to build the muscle as long as I look good doing it. I also realize how much more dedication it takes and commitment you need to your diet in order to pull this off, not to mention a strong understanding of how it all works together and how your body responds.
DangerDave
Well-known member
I had some dude tell me that's how pros do it. I laughed in his face and told him not pros that place well in the Olympia or win major shows only the guys who are consistent 5th-8th and fuk that. He said look how Jay or Phil or even Branch look in the off season. After I killed him and pissed on his grave I explained they sit in the 10% range and HOLD WATER. They are well hydrated, there is a huge difference in holding 10lbs of water or 10lbs of fat. Don't confuse the 2. It is unhealthy to stay sub 6% for months and months. You are at serious health risk from heat stroke, muscle cramps, organ failure etc when holding very low bodyfat. 10% is a healthy bodyfat and were you hold it makes all the difference in how it looks too. So they argument that the pros get fat in the off season just shows a person is a complete rock muncher and doesn't understand the difference of water weight and fat weight. If the professional level athletes can gain muscle and lose fat so can I.... Year round
superbeast668
Well-known member
Then again look at lee preists old off seasons...
Definitely after getting fat it's a lot easier to stay lean then cut though.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
He didn't even look like the same person lol
DangerDave
Well-known member
Lee priest isn't a model of mine. The guy consistently placed sub par of his potential. He wasn't a constant top placer and was constantly coming into shows off or not top shape. He crutches his way through on pharmaceuticals. Not talking **** on the guy but he had more potential than he lived up too. I would have liked to see him stay in shape year round and really see what his hard work could bring in to the stage.
DangerDave
Well-known member
Haha yeah lessons learned the hard way are the best kind. If you are smart you never make them again. God knows I have had mine.
Adding small increments of mass while maintaining a 10-12% bodyfat is optimal. Some guys can do it on 8-10% and be fine. But I would rather give my 100% for quality instead of quantity then give 150% to turn it into quality. Slow and steady wins the race. Bodybuilding ain't a sprint.. Its a marathon. Sprinters tire fast then can't keep up but the marathon runner stays in the race for the whole thing.
1ifeblood
Well-known member
snagencyV2.0
Legend
nobody senses sarcasm over the webz anymore....it is becoming a lost art :sad:What I've read and from my many friends who are cooks (plus my experiences in restaurant management) the salmonella you get from eggs are on the shell itself, not the guts of it. Give the egg a good wash before cracking it open and you don't have to worry about it. Oh...and Rocky did it so it must be okay.
no, there is no worry of salmonella in our country
DangerDave
Well-known member
I'm all for it...I wanna LEARN!
Your in the right spot bro
1ifeblood
Well-known member
1ifeblood
Well-known member
Today was back day...the day I've been waiting for to really put my mind/muscle connection to test. I focused on mostly single arm movements, worked lats first, and have my left side a little more attention. Most sets I did a couple reps more with my left and would finish off each exercise by hitting my left with an extra set. The weights were significantly lighter than what I was using so I could concentrate on the muscle being worked and not just trying to move the weight.
On deadlift, I did one set and felt a tweak in my back. It feels like a pinched nerve but I believe it's more like a muscle spasm. I've gotten this shît since I was a kid and it used to get so bad that I'd be floored abd unable to move...even breathing would cause a sharp pain to shoot between my shoulder blade and spine. But I continued to work through it and by the end of my workout the pain wasn't as sharp. I still feel it now when I take a deep breath but it really just feels like a muscle cramp. Nothing I can't handle. One thing I definitely realized is that I can feel my right side much better than my left. It took so much more concentration to feel the same intensity of contraction on my left as opposed to my right and even then I didn't quite feel it the same way. But I eventually was feeling it better than I have.
Deadlift
315x5
One Arm Cable Lat PD
60x8
70x8
70x8
70x8
60x8
60x8
60x8
60x8
HS one arm Iso High Row
45x12
55x12
55x12
Wide Grip Lat PD
60x50
*I did a set of straight arm push downs with my left side before this exercise fire about 30 reps then focused on pulling with my left side while stabilizing with my right on the PDs.
One Arm DB Rows
40x8x8
Seated One Arm Iso Row
45x12x3
45x30
*after hitting my left side an additional set I started alternating the movement as quickly as I could like I was running and just really blew the shît up!
Taking back pictures are really hard by yourself. Sorry for the quality.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
On deadlift, I did one set and felt a tweak in my back. It feels like a pinched nerve but I believe it's more like a muscle spasm. I've gotten this shît since I was a kid and it used to get so bad that I'd be floored abd unable to move...even breathing would cause a sharp pain to shoot between my shoulder blade and spine. But I continued to work through it and by the end of my workout the pain wasn't as sharp. I still feel it now when I take a deep breath but it really just feels like a muscle cramp. Nothing I can't handle. One thing I definitely realized is that I can feel my right side much better than my left. It took so much more concentration to feel the same intensity of contraction on my left as opposed to my right and even then I didn't quite feel it the same way. But I eventually was feeling it better than I have.
Deadlift
315x5
One Arm Cable Lat PD
60x8
70x8
70x8
70x8
60x8
60x8
60x8
60x8
HS one arm Iso High Row
45x12
55x12
55x12
Wide Grip Lat PD
60x50
*I did a set of straight arm push downs with my left side before this exercise fire about 30 reps then focused on pulling with my left side while stabilizing with my right on the PDs.
One Arm DB Rows
40x8x8
Seated One Arm Iso Row
45x12x3
45x30
*after hitting my left side an additional set I started alternating the movement as quickly as I could like I was running and just really blew the shît up!
Taking back pictures are really hard by yourself. Sorry for the quality.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
1ifeblood
Well-known member
VIDEOS
Watch "Deadlift" on YouTube
Invalid Link Removed
I wanted to see if I was doing anything specifically different on my DB Rows because I feel it so much more on my right side with little effort compared to my right.
Watch "Dumbbell Rows" on YouTube
Invalid Link Removed
Watch "Deadlift" on YouTube
Invalid Link Removed
I wanted to see if I was doing anything specifically different on my DB Rows because I feel it so much more on my right side with little effort compared to my right.
Watch "Dumbbell Rows" on YouTube
Invalid Link Removed
NattyForLife
Well-known member
DD, what do you recommend if im natty and wanting gain size? Like eating wise. Go above maintenance slighty on training days and maintenance on off days? That way i could gain size nice and slow but also not become a fat tub of lard!
DangerDave
Well-known member
No. Start at maintenance. Add calories weekly in small doses and keep track of your bodies changes. A 200 calorie bump every Monday spread out 40/40/20 in meals is very subtle but over a month that's 800 calories which is a lot. After the first month hold to that first for a month and "grow into" that calorie increase. As you add size you mi maintenance calories will ALWAYS increase. Your maintenance from month to month changes. After a month a 800 calorie surplus may only be a 400 calorie surplus the next month once your body grows into it and your metabolism increases. If at any point that 200 calorie bump started adding fat back it off to what you were the week before and hold that intake for a week or 2 then try bumping.
Large calorie bumps are bad in my eyes. If you throw 600 extra calories at your body and it's not ready to use it properly it will store it in the form of fat. Slow steady increases are best so you can adapt your metabolism. The way you can tell if you are adapted is if you start getting hungry between meals. Don't confuse that with wanting to eat but true actual hunger.