97 w/Hepatitis, 3 Transplants, and 1 Dead

Weren't there a ton of cases in the same area (Hawaii) that weren't related to OEP at all?


I could swear the original report talked about the plethora of cases in Hawaii of people being hopsitalized with non-viral hep, but only like 65% (or something like that) had used any version of OEP. And, on top of that, not all of the people who did use OEP used the same versions (I even think some of the people had use the OG formula w/ DMAA that wasn't even being produced at the time). So, to say that the supplement caused it seems like a bit of a stretch if there are more people being hospitalized w/ the same condition, from the same area, that didn't use the supplement (or even similar forms of it if hey did use OEP)
 
De__eB said:
Well, the recalls extended to other products and other company's products too. Also, they didn't recall all of their aegeline products like Versa-1. If it was Aegeline causing the issue and not a raw materials thing, I would have thought they would have recalled every batch of every aegeline product for fear of more issues?

The specificity of the recall is the main reason I go back to the batch thing.

I guess the other possibility with that specificity is that there were hot batches being put out....but I wouldn't imagine a company the size of USPLabs would think that was worth the risk.
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I thought they did recall versa-1??? Or were they just accepting the products back if anyone felt uncomfortable about them?
 
They did not recall Versa-1.

And that's correct that other countries issued warning. (Australia also did):

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Also dont forget them scummy lawyers (lol at warbird) were advertising for people effected by OEP.

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Angelbolic said:
Didn't they though? Not sure about recalling every lot or any product with aegeline in it, but I believe USP has dropped the entire ingredient. Furthermore, FDA implicitly adviced to avoid all aegeline containing products, so they are either being overly cautious or they really believe aegeline is the cause of these liver failure cases.


Yeah, the more you think about this case the stranger it becomes. The isolated batch hypothesis is not satisfying to me and neither is the counterfeit hypothesis (I assume most products were bought from a reputable retailer like GNC?). And if it's caused poor Q/A or aegeline itself, then why do we see such a disproportionate number of cases in Hawaii? A more efficient health surveillance system in Hawaii could explain it, but this hypothesis is not that satisfying either.
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Yeah, no explanation seems bulletproof currently.

I've seen genetics thrown out as a possibility for the trend towards Hawaii, but not any actual fully thought out theories beyond that

Whether Hawaii's health monitoring system is efficient or not, that's a LOT of liver failure, and it's not like you just have thousands of cases of hepatitis in otherwise health people shrugged off like it's no big deal stateside. Especially since they were actively looking for it after the incidences in Hawaii started.
 
I don't really have an opinion on this until the full investigation is done. But those who are comparing this to research chemicals are making a terrible comparison. OEP was sold in retail stores and through many online retailers that sell general health supplements, as well as magazine advertisements.

Research chemicals are on their own sites, not in stores, and consumers know there is a risk. There are no ads for them in magazines.

When you go into the retail stores at the mall you do not expect a level of sketchiness because it's readily available and marketed to the public. That's a big difference.
 
burpees said:
Has nothing to do w/ Aegeline it has to do with the horrible quality control some supplement companies have. this is a case of a bad batch of Aegeline slipping thru the cracks.
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Let's make it about that then, because until now it's been about, "Oh man supp companies don't actually test these new ingredients and just use us as guinea pigs and dah dah dah..."

There's also the issue of counterfeit product.
 
chris223 said:
Let's make it about that then, because until now it's been about, "Oh man supp companies don't actually test these new ingredients and just use us as guinea pigs and dah dah dah..." There's also the issue of counterfeit product.
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Every murder investigation there's a alibi

And some are a great story to cover up the truth

I wouldn't be surprised if USP purposely made "counterfeit" bottles to have a reason to point fingers too



I don't trust much especially the shady supplement business where unfortunately we are addicted too

They take risks and we take risks
It's the nature of the game


Companies can't even be honest enough to put the right amount of protein in a protein container

U think ima believe some company when it comes to these crazy ass herbs few only heard of before lol
 
Angelbolic said:
Didn't they though? Not sure about recalling every lot or any product with aegeline in it, but I believe USP has dropped the entire ingredient. Furthermore, FDA implicitly adviced to avoid all aegeline containing products, so they are either being overly cautious or they really believe aegeline is the cause of these liver failure cases. Yeah, the more you think about this case the stranger it becomes. The isolated batch hypothesis is not satisfying to me and neither is the counterfeit hypothesis (I assume most products were bought from a reputable retailer like GNC?). And if it's caused poor Q/A or aegeline itself, then why do we see such a disproportionate number of cases in Hawaii? A more efficient health surveillance system in Hawaii could explain it, but this hypothesis is not that satisfying either.
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Since when do we take the FDA's advice as gospel? When have they *ever* gotten it right in our realm? And to assume that most product was bought at "reputable retailers" is a stupid assumption. Do you realize how many people buy supplements off of Amazon and eBay? Or from "a guy I know"? Think about that for a bit and maybe you'll reconsider your "comfort level" with the idea that these people were using counterfeit product.
 
to read is a luxury to comprehend is a necessity
 
De__eB said:
I haven't even seen an alleged way that aegeline would cause liver failure. It seems likely to me that given the batch specific and product specific nature of some of the recalls/illness that it was one specific batch of raw materials that was responsible for the issue.

If that's the case, it's obviously USPlabs fault for having poor quality control. But it seems exceedingly unlikely that there is something specific too aegeline that is causing this.

If there was, then you'd hear about liver failure in India just from eating too much baal fruit.

Assuming the legal matters are settled privately as is normal, there will probably be non disclosures signed which means unless someone involved releases info, we might never know.

Studies on aegeline have been published since the issue happened, without noting toxicity in animals.
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Here is the kicker both Aegeline and DMAA Oxy are implicated. Explain that...

We had a 12 week rat and mouse acute/chronic study on Aegeline before releasing to the market (as well on higenamine)that FDA acquired in our inspection...
 
burpees said:
Every murder investigation there's a alibi

And some are a great story to cover up the truth

I wouldn't be surprised if USP purposely made "counterfeit" bottles to have a reason to point fingers too



I don't trust much especially the shady supplement business where unfortunately we are addicted too

They take risks and we take risks
It's the nature of the game


Companies can't even be honest enough to put the right amount of protein in a protein container

U think ima believe some company when it comes to these crazy ass herbs few only heard of before lol
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That's silly.

Search the internet, Call Europa, or visit any exporter in Florida. The number 1 weight 1oss product is always counterfeited....
 
De__eB said:
Yeah, no explanation seems bulletproof currently.

I've seen genetics thrown out as a possibility for the trend towards Hawaii, but not any actual fully thought out theories beyond that

Whether Hawaii's health monitoring system is efficient or not, that's a LOT of liver failure, and it's not like you just have thousands of cases of hepatitis in otherwise health people shrugged off like it's no big deal stateside. Especially since they were actively looking for it after the incidences in Hawaii started.
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The other Kicker is not all Hawaii liver cases took Oxy but "other" supplements...
 
I think Lobliner's recent video states it pretty well. The vast amount of the product that is sold vs the cases of the acute hepatitis would suggest that aegeline is most likely benign and the product in general is very safe when used as directed. Though personally I never really felt like aegeline did much of anything for me, but I don't think that it's toxic by any means.

Could have been counterfeit products or possibly contamination, but if it's contamination, I would think that the contaminated raw would have affected for more than just 100 or so individuals since the raw would have been used to most likely produce far more than just a 100 bottles of product.
 
kissdadookie said:
I think Lobliner's recent video states it pretty well. The vast amount of the product that is sold vs the cases of the acute hepatitis would suggest that aegeline is most likely benign and the product in general is very safe when used as directed. Though personally I never really felt like aegeline did much of anything for me, but I don't think that it's toxic by any means.

Could have been counterfeit products or possibly contamination, but if it's contamination, I would think that the contaminated raw would have affected for more than just 100 or so individuals since the raw would have been used to most likely produce far more than just a 100 bottles of product.
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how much aegeline in a bottle of OEP ? times by 100
 
Lots of speculation here, there, everywhere. The way these type of things go we will probably never know the actual answer to what happened. Way too many unknowns to have a real idea.
 
Could be the result of a OEP counterfeiter that focused on the Hawaii market. I think this story has far too many loose ends to be drawing any conclusions out of yet.
 
Angelbolic said:
Why? Not everyone who ingested the contaminated raw has to end up with liver failure. It kinda makes sense if the prevalence is only tenths of a percent, but the disproportionate number of cases in Hawaii is what makes this issue so curious.
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How do you explain the cases that spread outside of Hawaii? Let's say if it was a bad batch of raws, I highly doubt it would be contained to just 100 or so incidences due to the volume of product they sell. Again, I low balled how much an order of raws comes in and as you can see by De__eB's correction of my post, damn stuff basically comes in a substantial shipment which will be used for FAR more than a measly 100 or so bottles of OEP.

IMO (and just my opinion btw), this anomaly very bizarre and makes me think that it's probably not contaminated raws or if it was contamination, maybe it was during capping or packaging for a very short run on the supply line? Due to how few incidences of this that occurred compared to the quantity of product they sell and how the incidences seems to be concentrated mostly to one region.

Just throwing out more or less hypotheticals here people :P
 
kissdadookie said:
How do you explain the cases that spread outside of Hawaii? Let's say if it was a bad batch of raws, I highly doubt it would be contained to just 100 or so incidences due to the volume of product they sell. Again, I low balled how much an order of raws comes in and as you can see by De__eB's correction of my post, damn stuff basically comes in a substantial shipment which will be used for FAR more than a measly 100 or so bottles of OEP.

IMO (and just my opinion btw), this anomaly very bizarre and makes me think that it's probably not contaminated raws or if it was contamination, maybe it was during capping or packaging for a very short run on the supply line? Due to how few incidences of this that occurred compared to the quantity of product they sell and how the incidences seems to be concentrated mostly to one region.

Just throwing out more or less hypotheticals here people :P
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How many people who take hepatotoxic steroids get hepatitis vs. those who don't?

What % of people get any given side effect from a drug?
 
Fwiw the one person who died would have gotten a liver transplant but they found she had some form of terminal cancer so she was not a candidate for transplant. Essentially the supplementation of OEP (or whatever) seemed to expedite her death.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Fwiw the one person who died would have gotten a liver transplant but they found she had some form of terminal cancer so she was not a candidate for transplant. Essentially the supplementation of OEP (or whatever) seemed to expedite her death.
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"Dozens of people were suffering acute liver failure or non-viral hepatitis so severe that several needed liver transplants, and one died. These people, by and large, had been healthy." -Daniel Fabricant

I see...
 
These posts were from back in October on. LB.


heavydeadlifts said:
I just had a patient who was 24 years old an is now on the liver transplant list due to lier failure and they are saying it is because of OEP

Crazy
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heavydeadlifts said:
Yeah I talked to the guy and asked him if he was taking oral steroids and he said no just the OEP, was a pretty cool fellow meathead now with a ****ed up liver
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Right Hook said:
****s hitting the fan.

Cliffs: Hawaiii DOH has now made it illegal to sell in the state

GNC tried fighting them. They lost

One woman believes it to be counterfeit product (completely anecdotal)

Forty-eight-year-old mother of seven Sonnette Marras died last Friday from liver failure. She started taking OxyELITE Pro to lose weight and quickly fell severely ill. She was deemed ineligible for a liver transplant after doctors discovered she had cancer.

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I haven't read all of the new posts here..but I'm working my way through. I would caution anyone to believe the "investigating body" is unbiased too. I remember in the early 2000's when Tiratricol was big, the FDA shut that down with a quickness (days) - but they never did much about the GHB precursors on the market that were causing seizures. Why? My only guess was that Tiratricol had a lot of research that pharma companies spent big $$ on and nobody cared about the other products. In other words, merely being dangerous isn't enough reason to get the FDA's attention all the time. Being interesting to the right parties is enough though. Maybe there is another angle that has nothing to do with safety. I always felt Ephedrine suffered a similar fate.
 
Lobliner is a moron. I wouldn't listen to anything he says. Plus he runs tiger fitness and sold thousands of oxyelite pro to people.
 
That's why his opinion is biased . Most of his videos he's acting like an idiot. See the last one of him giving his little kids ISO whey. He's the definition of a tool.
 
roblasane said:
That's why his opinion is biased . Most of his videos he's acting like an idiot. See the last one of him giving his little kids ISO whey. He's the definition of a tool.
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Let's see... Iso whey vs chocolate milk... If I had kids, I would probably give them the iso whey, with some nuts or fruit.
 
I agree and I don't give my kids mcdonalds but millions of other parents do . Small children don't need supplemental protein or the artificial sweeteners. He's using an infant to illustrate the ISO tastes good. I'd rather have an adult opinion than a toddler .
 
T-Bone said:
I'd give them Chocolate milk, no way I would be spending money to give children supplemental protein. They wouldn't know the difference anyway.
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Ha ha ha. Well, same here probably, but I'm sure Lobliner gets most of that stuff for free or something :P
 
roblasane said:
I agree and I don't give my kids mcdonalds but millions of other parents do . Small children don't need supplemental protein or the artificial sweeteners. He's using an infant to illustrate the ISO tastes good. I'd rather have an adult opinion than a toddler .
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I agree thoroughly with this.
 
The dude use to hike his gym shorts up to his yam bag to check his quad definition . This ain't Venice beach it's Burlington NC. I don't need to see lobliners bag while I bench press.
 
roblasane said:
The dude use to hike his gym shorts up to his yam bag to check his quad definition . This ain't Venice beach it's Burlington NC. I don't need to see lobliners bag while I bench press.
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So if people got hepatitis and cancer from OxyElite, that means it worked as far as causing weight loss, right?
 
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