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Article: Fixing Crossfit

Deadlifts are "low skill"? Seems to me there is a high chance of injury with deadlifts if not done with careful attention to form.
 
Crossfit is stupid! Leave that type of lifting to experts. Everyone isn't meant to do these powerlifting exercises.
 
sfull006 said:
Deadlifts are "low skill"? Seems to me there is a high chance of injury with deadlifts if not done with careful attention to form.
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deadlifts are low skill in comparison to an overhead squat, snatch, clean, jerk, and other olympic lifts and their variations.
 
On one hand I'm glad that women are delving into the realm of weightlifting; takes the myths/stygma/fear out of it. I'm just not so keen on the Crossfit methodology... or lack thereof. Its needs a major overhaul. And if you go on the cross fit website forums you see literally hundreds of pages of injuries. Not acceptable for this type of program.
 
pmdied said:
On one hand I'm glad that women are delving into the realm of weightlifting; takes the myths/stygma/fear out of it. I'm just not so keen on the Crossfit methodology... or lack thereof. Its needs a major overhaul. And if you go on the cross fit website forums you see literally hundreds of pages of injuries. Not acceptable for this type of program.
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All of us lifters or builders know how effing easy it is to simply be unfocused and tweaking a muscle during any lift, especially big compound movements like deads etc. Take that with the crazy volume cross fit implies and the random circuits they do and it's just setting people up for failure. Are there freaks that can take it? Sure. Many are former athletes (guys you actually see on tv for the games). But average or beginner lifters don't understand they just see results. A lot can go wrong even with light weight snatches and over head squats and things like that, even at a light weight. I dunno about everyone else but I don't a giant rip in my hands from doing a hundred kip pull ups... ain't no one got time for that
 
asooneyeonig said:
you mean olympic lifting?? as powerlifting is squat, bench, and deadlift.
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Umm they do a lot of dead lifts and squats which is what power lifters do as well as benching all with heavy weight low reps. You want to play a game of semantics go ahead. Lol
 
wiseman said:
Umm they do a lot of dead lifts and squats which is what power lifters do as well as benching all with heavy weight low reps. You want to play a game of semantics go ahead. Lol
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so what you are saying is only powerlifters should or do those lifts and only with low reps? really? i am a competitive powerlifter and i do those lifts with up to 20 reps. most of my sets are done 3-10 reps. the program i am on was written for me by brandon lilly. yes, i paid him. he seems pretty knowledgeable and experienced. so if you want to argue or doubt or debate with doing reps as a powerlifter, please contact mr lilly directly.

bench, squat, and deadlift is not just meant for powerlifters. anyone can do them and doing them with less weight and more reps can be much safer than doing a 1 rep max. so indirectly you are correct. you are correct powerlfiters lift 1 rep maxes. you are wrong in thinking that crossfit is like powerlifting. its not an opinion, its a fact. so if you want to argue/debate/discuss you will need to argue against facts and not me.

so, is this where you start to back pedal after posting some silliness?
 
wiseman said:
Says the guy with no pic. You're probably a Crossfiter and a twig
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ohh look here. the backpedalling, name calling had already began.

is this where you say i lift more than you and look better so i know more? thats like saying stephen hawkins is an idiot cause he is so weak and looks goofy. oops.
 
asooneyeonig said:
so what you are saying is only powerlifters should or do those lifts and only with low reps? really? i am a competitive powerlifter and i do those lifts with up to 20 reps. most of my sets are done 3-10 reps. the program i am on was written for me by brandon lilly. yes, i paid him. he seems pretty knowledgeable and experienced. so if you want to argue or doubt or debate with doing reps as a powerlifter, please contact mr lilly directly.

bench, squat, and deadlift is not just meant for powerlifters. anyone can do them and doing them with less weight and more reps can be much safer than doing a 1 rep max. so indirectly you are correct. you are correct powerlfiters lift 1 rep maxes. you are wrong in thinking that crossfit is like powerlifting. its not an opinion, its a fact. so if you want to argue/debate/discuss you will need to argue against facts and not me.

so, is this where you start to back pedal after posting some silliness?
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First, anyone can say theyre a competitive power lifter so that's a moot point. Second, if you look at some of the best lifters out there they are not doing high rep routines. Think Westside Barbell. They have a dynamic day but it doesn't include high reps. We do not get stronger doing high reps, which is why I question you being a competitive power lifter.

Have you ever been to a crossfit gym? It's either high rep or heavy lifting like a power lifter. Im beginning to think you're a crossfitter lol
 
asooneyeonig said:
ohh look here. the backpedalling, name calling had already began.

is this where you say i lift more than you and look better so i know more? thats like saying stephen hawkins is an idiot cause he is so weak and looks goofy. oops.
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Your analogy is incorrect. What does looking weak and goofy have anything to do with intelligence? Most extremely intelligent people usually look weak and goofy because they enjoy books more than weights Lol but it does have something to do with physical capabilities. I think this last comment of yours shows your illogical thinking.
 
wiseman said:
First, anyone can say theyre a competitive power lifter so that's a moot point. Second, if you look at some of the best lifters out there they are not doing high rep routines. Think Westside Barbell. They have a dynamic day but it doesn't include high reps. We do not get stronger doing high reps, which is why I question you being a competitive power lifter.

Have you ever been to a crossfit gym? It's either high rep or heavy lifting like a power lifter. Im beginning to think you're a crossfitter lol
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so you know the training of westside? you would know about the RE aspect done every day. after they do they ME and DE work they do RE work for weak links. its in every westside template i have seen, all the videos talking about training from westside, its in the book of methods, etc. you would also know even loui himself will do for example some banded leg curls of up to 50 reps then do squats. now i have mentioned 2 world class powerlifters that use the RE method, or repetition method for that that dont know what it means.

i have been to a crossfit gym. back 12 years ago before anyone really knew of it when i was an athletic trainer. went to one a few times to learn about it. as a trainer i believed it was important to constantly learn about all aspects of training. and back then with dan john and mark rippetoe being affiliated with them it seemed a good thing to do.

now, i have referenced some world known coaches and athletes that have shown you are wrong. would you like to argue against them?

if you were knowledgeable you would also know the cube is a variation on westside, and it uses higher reps. if that is what is needed for the athlete. especially as how it has a day dedicated to bodybuilding exercises. higher reps is one way to gain mass as a body builder. 20 rep squats anyone?

even 5/3/1 will have higher reps in it. when you first start and are using your 90% of your training max there are going to be days when you hit 10-15 reps in a set. throw in the fact that in the beyond book there is a pyramid version that bring you back down in percentages and AMRAPS the lightest percentage, you could easily break 20 for a long time on many lifts. i know i did when i tried it last year. and we all know that 5/3/1 builds strength, a major component of powerlifting. there are competitive powerlifters that use 5/3/1 as well.

there is more fact that high reps has a place for even powerlifters. the biggest missunderstanding is the fact that you need to bring up your weak links to be an effective powerlifter. for many the weak link is some higher rep work.

dave tate on t-nation a few years ago wrote several articles about his past experiences and what people should do to learn from his mistakes. he had one article where he stated people should spend time every year training in higher reps, like a bodybuilder.

how many world class athletes and coaches do you want to hear from to prove you wrong? you dont have to admit you are wrong, it is the internet after all. this is more for the benefit of others reading it and not being so misguided to believe you.
 
wiseman said:
Your analogy is incorrect. What does looking weak and goofy have anything to do with intelligence? Most extremely intelligent people usually look weak and goofy because they enjoy books more than weights Lol but it does have something to do with physical capabilities. I think this last comment of yours shows your illogical thinking.
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how is it illogical? can you please explain.

the analogy is accurate with angry people on internet forums. they nearly always devolve into name calling and saying they are bigger and stronger when their argument begins to fall apart due to lack of facts. that is exactly what that analogy represents. FYI - i started using that when i saw mark rippetoe use it in an article. again, if you want to discount these ideas you are discounting the ideas of some of the most successful coaches and athletes. is that what you are doing? saying you are better and more knowledgeable than they are?
 
asooneyeonig said:
so you know the training of westside? you would know about the RE aspect done every day. after they do they ME and DE work they do RE work for weak links. its in every westside template i have seen, all the videos talking about training from westside, its in the book of methods, etc. you would also know even loui himself will do for example some banded leg curls of up to 50 reps then do squats. now i have mentioned 2 world class powerlifters that use the RE method, or repetition method for that that dont know what it means.

i have been to a crossfit gym. back 12 years ago before anyone really knew of it when i was an athletic trainer. went to one a few times to learn about it. as a trainer i believed it was important to constantly learn about all aspects of training. and back then with dan john and mark rippetoe being affiliated with them it seemed a good thing to do.

now, i have referenced some world known coaches and athletes that have shown you are wrong. would you like to argue against them?
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Hahaha banded leg curls is your only example for high rep work from Westside lol that's not even a compound exercise. I thought we were talking about REAL lifting, not isolation exercises.
 
wiseman said:
Hahaha banded leg curls is your only example for high rep work from Westside lol that's not even a compound exercise. I thought we were talking about REAL lifting, not isolation exercises.
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it was a single example and not by any means the only example. here is another from loui, he will do 50+ reps with DB bench before barbell benching. you claimed to know westside but are showing a lack of understanding of a well documented program. one that is unfortunately misunderstood more often than done properly. its not just about max effort and speed work. rep work is the foundation of lifts after the max effort or speed work.

even speed work can have lots of reps in it. i know if you are using block periodization on your westside template the DE days can have as much as 20 sets of 2-3. add in the fact this is usually done with 15-45 seconds rest between sets you get a training effect similar to high rep work but for an even longer training time and therefore greater training effect.

plus you didnt specify earlier that it has to be a certain type of lift, isolation or compound. you just said lifts. also, strongmen commonly do high rep work. i train with 2 guys that went to the NSA nationals last year as heavy weights. they commonly do high rep, 10-20 rep work. there are many strongmen that rep out what powerlifters do for max work.

would you like to make another claim that is incorrect now? or you could try and clarify my original response about powerlifting being a small if not even a part of crossfit but that olymic lifts are and the O lifts are generally what is argued about as being so bad in crossfit with its high rep WODs using them. do you even know that powerlifting and olymipc lifting is 2 different sports or do you want to start back pedaling, using a straw man argument, or trying to change the topic till you find something you might be right about?
 
asooneyeonig said:
it was a single example and not by any means the only example. here is another from loui, he will do 50+ reps with DB bench before barbell benching. you claimed to know westside but are showing a lack of understanding of a well documented program. one that is unfortunately misunderstood more often than done properly. its not just about max effort and speed work. rep work is the foundation of lifts after the max effort or speed work.

even speed work can have lots of reps in it. i know if you are using block periodization on your westside template the DE days can have as much as 20 sets of 2-3. add in the fact this is usually done with 15-45 seconds rest between sets you get a training effect similar to high rep work but for an even longer training time and therefore greater training effect.

plus you didnt specify earlier that it has to be a certain type of lift, isolation or compound. you just said lifts. also, strongmen commonly do high rep work. i train with 2 guys that went to the NSA nationals last year as heavy weights. they commonly do high rep, 10-20 rep work. there are many strongmen that rep out what powerlifters do for max work.

would you like to make another claim that is incorrect now? or you could try and clarify my original response about powerlifting being a small if not even a part of crossfit but that olymic lifts are and the O lifts are generally what is argued about as being so bad in crossfit with its high rep WODs using them. do you even know that powerlifting and olymipc lifting is 2 different sports or do you want to start back pedaling, using a straw man argument, or trying to change the topic till you find something you might be right about?
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I have never... NEVER... Seen anyone who trains with the Westside method that does high rep work. They may do short rest intervals but repping out weight does NOTHING for strength but it will put on muscle.

I'm not going to argue with you. Believe what you like. It's easy to type anything you want online.
 
asooneyeonig said:
so you know the training of westside? you would know about the RE aspect done every day. after they do they ME and DE work they do RE work for weak links. its in every westside template i have seen, all the videos talking about training from westside, its in the book of methods, etc. you would also know even loui himself will do for example some banded leg curls of up to 50 reps then do squats. now i have mentioned 2 world class powerlifters that use the RE method, or repetition method for that that dont know what it means. i have been to a crossfit gym. back 12 years ago before anyone really knew of it when i was an athletic trainer. went to one a few times to learn about it. as a trainer i believed it was important to constantly learn about all aspects of training. and back then with dan john and mark rippetoe being affiliated with them it seemed a good thing to do. now, i have referenced some world known coaches and athletes that have shown you are wrong. would you like to argue against them? if you were knowledgeable you would also know the cube is a variation on westside, and it uses higher reps. if that is what is needed for the athlete. especially as how it has a day dedicated to bodybuilding exercises. higher reps is one way to gain mass as a body builder. 20 rep squats anyone? even 5/3/1 will have higher reps in it. when you first start and are using your 90% of your training max there are going to be days when you hit 10-15 reps in a set. throw in the fact that in the beyond book there is a pyramid version that bring you back down in percentages and AMRAPS the lightest percentage, you could easily break 20 for a long time on many lifts. i know i did when i tried it last year. and we all know that 5/3/1 builds strength, a major component of powerlifting. there are competitive powerlifters that use 5/3/1 as well. there is more fact that high reps has a place for even powerlifters. the biggest missunderstanding is the fact that you need to bring up your weak links to be an effective powerlifter. for many the weak link is some higher rep work. dave tate on t-nation a few years ago wrote several articles about his past experiences and what people should do to learn from his mistakes. he had one article where he stated people should spend time every year training in higher reps, like a bodybuilder. how many world class athletes and coaches do you want to hear from to prove you wrong? you dont have to admit you are wrong, it is the internet after all. this is more for the benefit of others reading it and not being so misguided to believe you.
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I don't see why so many people see crossfit as the worst thing on earth. Don't get me wrong, my style of training is bodybuilding and it'll always be bodybuilding, but I think crossfit has at least SOME merit. I could see why people on this app immediately denounce it because of all the homo social media attraction to it, weak ass pull-up style, the cult-style fan base, and the fact that it's become a "cool" thing to do. Similar to the way bodybuilders and power lifters could learn from each other, I've added some things to my bodybuilding pumps that I've adapted from crossfit such as light weight super complexes, prowler sessions, and its high intensity circuit style training.
 
Biased

What evidence do you have that crossfit is more prone to injury than body building? I see people who bodybuild get all types of injuries! Hernia, muscle pulls, tears, joint injuries, everything. It's just as risky if not more. Bodybuilders are just a bunch of idiots. It hasn't changed since 1980s and it's dead. Bodybuilding is a joke. That's why crossfit came through. Crossfitters look better, are stronger pound for pound and is evaluated by strength and fitness not how proportional their lats are to their traps and blah blah.
 
Escrima said:
What evidence do you have that crossfit is more prone to injury than body building? I see people who bodybuild get all types of injuries! Hernia, muscle pulls, tears, joint injuries, everything. It's just as risky if not more. Bodybuilders are just a bunch of idiots. It hasn't changed since 1980s and it's dead. Bodybuilding is a joke. That's why crossfit came through. Crossfitters look better, are stronger pound for pound and is evaluated by strength and fitness not how proportional their lats are to their traps and blah blah.
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i dont know if there are any stats on bodybuilders being injured. and what do you define as a bodybuilder? a pro, an amateur that competes, or all the millions of people that claim to be one but never compete or do anything to document who and what they are. so that info could be very difficult to get.

as for crossfit, there are lots of stats on that and injury rates. surprisingly according to this europe pubmed central article injury rates are at 73.5% and that is normal for even general fitness users. Invalid Link Removed

i find that extremely high and i used to specialize in training injured athletes. i really had no idea that injury rates were that high. the article referenced that it just used a questionnaire so who knows how really accurate it is as people could answer wrong and not even know it.
 
Right on. It does say it's comparitive to football and rugby haha. Body building by guys who actually bodybuild and go everyday. I think later on as a bodybuilder gets stronger injury is bound to happen. You are teaching your muscles to become stronger without body mechanics such as landing. So if you jump rope, your muscles will lock up and put significant "impact tension" on the ligaments of your knees.
 
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