Experienced PH/DS users with A++ knowledge

Here's my new layout, taking into consideration everything that has been discussed. Please let me know of any changes that need to be addressed. Thanks Dr. Str8 and Alex for your input.

PreCycle (2 weeks)
- Multi/ Fish oil/ joint support/ protein.
- Cycle Assist ( LGI Damage Control or Anteus Labs: still undecided)

Cycle (weeks 1-12)
- Multi & Joint Support ( Orange Triad)
- Fish Oil ( OxiMega)
- Protein ( whey/casein)
- Test Enanthanate (250 ml thru weeks 1-12)
- Super DMZ 2.0 ( 40/40/40/40/40/40) week1-6
- Stano-200 (600/600/600/800/800/800)week1-6
- Taurine (primaforce)
- AI (Exemestane) weeks 1-19

Weeks 12-15
- Multi/ Fish oil/ Protein/ Joint/ Taurine
- Exemestane

PCT (weeks 15-19)
- Multi/ Joint/ Fish oil/ Taurine/ Protein
- Cycle Assist/ CEL PCT
- Tamoxifen Citrate
- Exemestane
- Animal Test

Let me know what you guys think, thanks in advance.
 
DNA24 said:
Here's my new layout, taking into consideration everything that has been discussed. Please let me know of any changes that need to be addressed. Thanks Dr. Str8 and Alex for your input.

PreCycle (2 weeks)
- Multi/ Fish oil/ joint support/ protein.
- Cycle Assist ( LGI Damage Control or Anteus Labs: still undecided)

Cycle (weeks 1-12)
- Multi & Joint Support ( Orange Triad)
- Fish Oil ( OxiMega)
- Protein ( whey/casein)
- Test Enanthanate (250 ml thru weeks 1-12)
- Super DMZ 2.0 ( 40/40/40/40/40/40) week1-6
- Stano-200 (600/600/600/800/800/800)week1-6
- Taurine (primaforce)
- AI (Exemestane) weeks 1-19

Weeks 12-15
- Multi/ Fish oil/ Protein/ Joint/ Taurine
- Exemestane

PCT (weeks 15-19)
- Multi/ Joint/ Fish oil/ Taurine/ Protein
- Cycle Assist/ CEL PCT
- Tamoxifen Citrate
- Exemestane
- Animal Test

Let me know what you guys think, thanks in advance.
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No milk thistle no Hawthorne berry no need to preload cycle support.

If you're running test i'd bump it to 500mg a week and run it 16 weeks if your running an oral for 6 weeks.

I'd still pick up 2 bottle of Methadrol Extreme still over SDMZ 2.0 because of the better DMZ dosing and it can be had cheaper.

Drop the stano no need, people use stano because it converts to DHT which most compounds can't so it helps with lethargy it won't do much by itself and also if your on test e there is no need for it your body will naturally 5a reduce the test into dht.

Still i think casein protein is a waste if your using it for timed protein release, though it can be used for protein cooking recipe's cause it is thicker then whey.

Isn't much of a need for cycle support in pct, drop CEL PCT and Animal Test, PCT is fine with Nolva(tamox) Exemestane, and AI Sodium D-Aspartic Acid.
 
00S4Boy said:
No milk thistle no Hawthorne berry no need to preload cycle support.

If you're running test i'd bump it to 500mg a week and run it 16 weeks if your running an oral for 6 weeks.

I'd still pick up 2 bottle of Methadrol Extreme still over SDMZ 2.0 because of the better DMZ dosing and it can be had cheaper.

Drop the stano no need, people use stano because it converts to DHT which most compounds can't so it helps with lethargy it won't do much by itself and also if your on test e there is no need for it your body will naturally 5a reduce the test into dht.

Still i think casein protein is a waste if your using it for timed protein release, though it can be used for protein cooking recipe's cause it is thicker then whey.

Isn't much of a need for cycle support in pct, drop CEL PCT and Animal Test, PCT is fine with Nolva(tamox) Exemestane, and AI Sodium D-Aspartic Acid.
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Agreed. As far as the SDMZ 2.0 I wouldn't go above 3 caps a day, 4 caps is too much. The liver toxicity would b pretty significant.
 
I have been thinking about taking Metha-drol extreme or Epi-smash from b-stone labs instead of the DMZ 2.0/Stano-200 stack. I'll be taking either supplement with a weekly shot of Test E dosed at 250-300 mg. Which oral would be most beneficial to adding and keeping 10-17 pounds while maintaining my 10-11 BF%?
 
DNA24 said:
I have been thinking about taking Metha-drol extreme or Epi-smash from b-stone labs instead of the DMZ 2.0/Stano-200 stack. I'll be taking either supplement with a weekly shot of Test E dosed at 250-300 mg. Which oral would be most beneficial to adding and keeping 10-17 pounds while maintaining my 10-11 BF%?
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DMZ 2.0
 
Dr.Stri8ed said:
DMZ 2.0
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So essentially, If I want to "make" SDMZ2.0...I just take 2-3 beastdrol I got stashed, and buy some Msten and take 20-30mgs of that at the same time....and voila I have the "better than SD" stack? :D
 
Dr.Stri8ed said:
Lol pretty much. But its msten and DMZ though
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Yeah but DMZ supposedly transforms in some way in the gut from DMZ to "something like superdrol".....so actual SD would be a more direct route, and theoretically a better source of the "SD" portion of the formula. Logic tells me that actual SD should be better than something that converts into an SD-like compound in the gut....but I'm not 100% sure if its the same difference, better, or worse to be honest, just extrapolating from the literature on the net and the ingredients in the SDMZ....
 
AnabolicHolic said:
So essentially, If I want to "make" SDMZ2.0...I just take 2-3 beastdrol I got stashed, and buy some Msten and take 20-30mgs of that at the same time....and voila I have the "better than SD" stack? :D
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I don't know if anyone has experimented with stacking Superdrol and M-sten, the first SDMZ was superdrol and dmz, and after the ban they released SDMZ 2.0 which is M-Sten and DMZ, if you wanted to make your own SDMZ 2.0 Buy IronMagLabs M-Sten RX and LGI DMZ-15, which may be better but more pills cause that way you could dose m-sten 20-30mg, and dmz 45-60mg.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
Yeah but DMZ supposedly transforms in some way in the gut from DMZ to "something like superdrol".....so actual SD would be a more direct route, and theoretically a better source of the "SD" portion of the formula. Logic tells me that actual SD should be better than something that converts into an SD-like compound in the gut....but I'm not 100% sure if its the same difference, better, or worse to be honest, just extrapolating from the literature on the net and the ingredients in the SDMZ....
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Og super dmz contained sd + dzine.

Dzine isn't sd. I don't know of any.benefit stacking either compound (msten or sd) with dzine, besides adding more steroids to your regimen.

Now, dzine an anadrol (doing now) or dbol, this is another story.
 
00S4Boy said:
I don't know if anyone has experimented with stacking Superdrol and M-sten, the first SDMZ was superdrol and dmz, and after the ban they released SDMZ 2.0 which is M-Sten and DMZ, if you wanted to make your own SDMZ 2.0 Buy IronMagLabs M-Sten RX and LGI DMZ-15, which may be better but more pills cause that way you could dose m-sten 20-30mg, and dmz 45-60mg.
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Yeah I'm already on it :D pulled up the IML M-sten on PHF.......but I have 2 more beastdrols left, along with 3-4 LGI SD....plenty of SD laying around, I figure make my own concoction with what I already have in house, to match or better the effects of the SDMZ with an SD and Msten component. Some sort of mix of 20-30 of each maybe? not sure, don't want to kill myself or nothing....
 
jbryand101b said:
Og super dmz contained sd + dzine.

Dzine isn't sd. I don't know of any.benefit stacking either compound (msten or sd) with dzine, besides adding more steroids to your regimen.

Now, dzine an anadrol (doing now) or dbol, this is another story.
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All the literature I have read says that DMZ transforms in the gut into an SD like compound.....so I am assuming that product has a pseudo-SD like compound in the end, matched with Msten. DMZ is comprised of two molecules that upon ingestion into the gut are split, which results in the SD like compound (I believe this was from IML directly, but not sure, I can go look it up).....so SDMZ 2.0 is essentially Msten plus SD.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
All the literature I have read says that DMZ transforms in the gut into an SD like compound.....so I am assuming that product has a pseudo-SD like compound in the end, matched with Msten. DMZ is comprised of two molecules that upon ingestion into the gut are split, which results in the SD like compound (I believe this was from IML directly, but not sure, I can go look it up).....so SDMZ 2.0 is essentially Msten plus SD.
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Had a convo with PA regarding this yes Mebolazine undergoes hydrolysis the azine function gets hydrolized into a hydrazine and the the androgens end up with ketones. But I'm just saying in real world application mebolazine acts differently then methasterone.
 
00S4Boy said:
Had a convo with PA regarding this yes Mebolazine undergoes hydrolysis the azine function gets hydrolized into a hydrazine and the the androgens end up with ketones. But I'm just saying in real world application mebolazine acts differently then methasterone.
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maybe they will work well together, have that synergistic effect the the SDMZ 2.0 has.....maybe not. Hey might even be better, who knows. Maybe 20mg of each might work, without overdoing it. Won't be able to run it until April though, too many things already planned out. I suppose i could run it in January in place of what I have planned, since it will be only a 5 week thing.....but it will require a good deal of off time afterwards though.....hmmmmm......
 
AnabolicHolic said:
maybe they will work well together, have that synergistic effect the the SDMZ 2.0 has.....maybe not. Hey might even be better, who knows. Maybe 20mg of each might work, without overdoing it. Won't be able to run it until April though, too many things already planned out. I suppose i could run it in January in place of what I have planned, since it will be only a 5 week thing.....but it will require a good deal of off time afterwards though.....hmmmmm......
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SD and msten I wouldn't do. Too much toxicity, I think the SD would put it over the top. But just for perspective, I did 2/3/3/3/3/3 of sten-zine and put 20 pounds on in the first 4 weeks. Shows u how potent that combo is.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
All the literature I have read says that DMZ transforms in the gut into an SD like compound.....so I am assuming that product has a pseudo-SD like compound in the end, matched with Msten. DMZ is comprised of two molecules that upon ingestion into the gut are split, which results in the SD like compound (I believe this was from IML directly, but not sure, I can go look it up).....so SDMZ 2.0 is essentially Msten plus SD.
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Sd is Di methyl dht. Any 5a reduced compound is sd like.

Dzine is completely different. One can only speculate what happens when the nitrogen bond is broken, but we do know it brings different results than sd.

Dzine is a much more potent androgen imo
 
00S4Boy said:
Had a convo with PA regarding this yes Mebolazine undergoes hydrolysis the azine function gets hydrolized into a hydrazine and the the androgens end up with ketones. But I'm just saying in real world application mebolazine acts differently then methasterone.
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Pa will tell you also, this is just speculation. And I believe one half should end up as sd, the other a unknown compound.
 
jbryand101b said:
Pa will tell you also, this is just speculation. And I believe one half should end up as sd, the other a unknown compound.
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And how much you wanna bet that the SD component is whats complementing the msten, not the unknown compound? ;)
 
jbryand101b said:
Pa will tell you also, this is just speculation. And I believe one half should end up as sd, the other a unknown compound.
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PA speculated using Acetone Azine as a reference point
Invalid Link Removed

Via Acetone Hydrazone in acidic conditions will convert back into Acetone and Hydrazine.

Acetone
Invalid Link Removed

Hydrazine
Invalid Link Removed
 
00S4Boy said:
PA speculated using Acetone Azine as a reference point
Invalid Link Removed

Via Acetone Hydrazone in acidic conditions will convert back into Acetone and Hydrazine.

Acetone
Invalid Link Removed

Hydrazine
Invalid Link Removed
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That's great, I've talked about this with pa a few times before, I know his opinion.

I think your mis quoting ( or misunderstanding) him a little.
 
Who knew? I could have been getting huger than on SD with my girls nail polish remover all these years!
 
Also I think it was a cel rep who said it's real hard to make pure m-sten. He said m-sten in the market place is 15-30% SD.
 
Come on man. Apply some thought into this
 
rphash49 said:
Also I think it was a cel rep who said it's real hard to make pure m-sten. He said m-sten in the market place is 15-30% SD.
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ultradrol was said to contain around 10% sd, this is a minute amount.

the starting materials for methyl stenbolone I believe are superdrol. been a while since I researched the subject.

IML claims to have 100% pure msten, but who knows.
 
jbryand101b said:
That's great, I've talked about this with pa a few times before, I know his opinion.

I think your mis quoting ( or misunderstanding) him a little.
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How am i misunderstanding the situation?

The chemical hypothesis is because acetone azine which is like the 2,3,4 carbons and the 3,3 azine group with acetone hydrazone will hydrolize into acetone like the 2,3,4 carbon's and 3 ketone of androgens.

So if acetone hydrazone acts on mebolazine as if it was acetone azine with what ever else attached to it, you should end up with 2 methasterone molecules and a hydrazine.

What am I misunderstanding about that concept?

Is it verified no does it make logical sense yes. Do PA and Henryv both seem to support it yes, and they are both far more knowledgeable then me in this regards.
 
00S4Boy said:
How am i misunderstanding the situation?

The chemical hypothesis is because acetone azine which is like the 2,3,4 carbons and the 3,3 azine group with acetone hydrazone will hydrolize into acetone like the 2,3,4 carbon's and 3 ketone of androgens.

So if acetone hydrazone acts on mebolazine as if it was acetone azine with what ever else attached to it, you should end up with 2 methasterone molecules and a hydrazine.

What am I misunderstanding about that concept?

Is it verified no does it make logical sense yes. Do PA and Henryv both seem to support it yes, and they are both far more knowledgeable then me in this regards.
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You said it in your first sentence, hypothesis. Aka, presumption.

That's all I'm saying. Youre wanting to get all into the chemistry, which I already know.

In the end, the compound dzine hydrolyzes into is unknown.
It is known it brings different effects than sd.
Like I had originally said.
 
jbryand101b said:
You said it in your first sentence, hypothesis. Aka, presumption.

That's all I'm saying. Youre wanting to get all into the chemistry, which I already know.

In the end, the compound dzine hydrolyzes into is unknown.
It is known it brings different effects than sd.
Like I had originally said.
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Its hydrolyzes into gains lol
 
DNA24 said:
am I going to need to still take the Stano-200 to combat lethargy or will the test e work to combat lethargy?
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You will not have to use Stano at all if you are going to be injecting test - e. The reason you would even use stano would be to combat the lethargic feeling that comes with shut down. Using Test - e will give you synthetic testosterone that will take the place of your natural test.
 
I use Test for TRT, and I supplement with TD masteron as well....adding DHT to test is a great idea, if you have the cash and don't have a tendency for MPB. So stano plus test would be a variation of test plus mast.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
I use Test for TRT, and I supplement with TD masteron as well....adding DHT to test is a great idea, if you have the cash and don't have a tendency for MPB. So stano plus test would be a variation of test plus mast.
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When I got down to 6% I was going to add in the stanodrol to see what would happen. Can't afford masteron, no way in hell lol. Was thinking of maybe another DHT but stanodrol is cheap so why not? I'll post up the results
 
AnabolicHolic said:
I use Test for TRT, and I supplement with TD masteron as well....adding DHT to test is a great idea, if you have the cash and don't have a tendency for MPB. So stano plus test would be a variation of test plus mast.
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On this right now. Love masteron and 500 test
 
Is it more beneficial to stack EQ 300 with Test E, than it would be to stack DMZ 2.0 with test E? Which stack would increase strength and size while keeping the total weight added to a minimum. I'm at 180 lbs with 12% bf, I'm looking to get into the 190-195 zone while maintaining a 10-13 bf percentage. I have previously taken H-Drol and Stano, but this will be my first injectable cycle. I have all my other cycle support supplements in order and on schedule to get a cycle started the beginning of the year. I was curious if I would be better off with 400-600 mg of EQ each week, instead of the DMZ 2.0

Weeks 1-12 Test E/EQ300
or
Weeks 1-12 Test E/DMZ 2.0 (for weeks 1-4)

What do you guys suggest?
 
DNA24 said:
Is it more beneficial to stack EQ 300 with Test E, than it would be to stack DMZ 2.0 with test E? Which stack would increase strength and size while keeping the total weight added to a minimum. I'm at 180 lbs with 12% bf, I'm looking to get into the 190-195 zone while maintaining a 10-13 bf percentage. I have previously taken H-Drol and Stano, but this will be my first injectable cycle. I have all my other cycle support supplements in order and on schedule to get a cycle started the beginning of the year. I was curious if I would be better off with 400-600 mg of EQ each week, instead of the DMZ 2.0 Weeks 1-12 Test E/EQ300 or Weeks 1-12 Test E/DMZ 2.0 (for weeks 1-4) What do you guys suggest?
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Generally, EQ is recommended to be run at least 14-16 weeks, as the gains come on late. DMZ will be more efficient at putting mass on you anyways.
 
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