Dry gains and no gyno

Jeff5886

Jeff5886

Member
What would be a good DS/PH that might not be as strong but gives very dry gains and has virtually no gyno issues? I am prone to gyno and I'm trying to cut down as much as possible.
 
DMZ if this isn't your first cycle. Believe the hype.

I'm running a log now and up 18 pounds on day 29 with seriously increased vascularity. Just blew away my last hdrol cycle with less sides.
 
Epi is no doubt "drier" but if you throw the words "wet" and "dry" out the window and not put a label on things... like I said... I'm more vascular and gained a crap load. What are your goals when you are finished? More muscle and to be stronger, maybe even lower bodyfat?

You will get stronger on Epi usually but nowhere near the size increase. I wouldn't discount Epi at all for a drier compound, just putting my 2 cents in.
 
Goals are increased muscle size with little fat gain/ recomp. Doing anabolic diet/ckd as diet. Not interested in strength gains just size and vascularity. And of course, staying away from anything that can bring on the gyno.
 
Its going to be a goal oriented call, man. If these guys have used both DMZ and Epi, then so be it but I would not label DMZ as "wet". Don't think of it as being anything like SD, its not SD.

If you goal is purely dry size, DMZ will pack it on more, no water retention usually. If you want to be strong as sh*t and have mild size increases, take Epi.

Take into account that everyone is different but it sounds like you just want a recomp/size increase. Epi won't do what DMZ will, generally, but some people are super responders to either so... roll the dice if you want.
 
6andaHalf said:
Its going to be a goal oriented call, man. If these guys have used both DMZ and Epi, then so be it but I would not label DMZ as "wet". Don't think of it as being anything like SD, its not SD.

If you goal is purely dry size, DMZ will pack it on more, no water retention usually. If you want to be strong as sh*t and have mild size increases, take Epi.

Take into account that everyone is different but it sounds like you just want a recomp/size increase. Epi won't do what DMZ will, generally, but some people are super responders to either so... roll the dice if you want.
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how is DMZ when it comes to gyno risk?

DMZ also requires a heavier PCT than Epi does; correct?
 
Jeff5886 said:
how is DMZ when it comes to gyno risk?

DMZ also requires a heavier PCT than Epi does; correct?
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It's in your best interest to use a SERM regardless to maintain more of your gains so the strength of your PCT isn't really relevant. Nolva or Torem would most likely be your choice regardless of which one you used.
 
Yikes. I'd keep it real simple or not cycle at all, honestly. I know a lot of people who have gotten away with Epistane or Halodrol cycles with OTC PCT's (natty test booster and a good AI) without any gyno problems although a lot of users on here will probably give me **** for saying that since most swear by a SERM. Halodrol can be used for an effective dry bulk with very mild sides so that may be your best bet.

I have heard good things about Demonize (DMZ) but someone else would have to chime in if that's a good idea to cycle without a SERM, though.
 
Jeff5886 said:
how is DMZ when it comes to gyno risk?

DMZ also requires a heavier PCT than Epi does; correct?
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Just like Epi, DMZ does not aromise to estrogen either so it should not cause gyno.

Dymethazine would not techniccally require any more of a PCT than Epi if you ran them both for their maximum.
 
Matthersby said:
Research chem serm. Unless you are stationed where they open your mail. Otherwise don't cycle hormones.
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Yep. If you cant get a SERM then cycling is pretty much a waste of money and time. Although, time and money are the least of your worries when messing with your endocrine system.
 
6andaHalf said:
Yep. If you cant get a SERM then cycling is pretty much a waste of money and time.
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I politely disagree. While many use serms successfully 1000's of cycles have been run worldwide in the history of AAS and plenty of them were run without serms. Is it ideal no, is it a waste? Many have found otherwise.
 
bigflex0 said:
I politely disagree. While many use serms successfully 1000's of cycles have been run worldwide in the history of AAS and plenty of them were run without serms. Is it ideal no, is it a waste? Many have found otherwise.
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I've run stuff with no SERM and I'm here to tell you its a bad idea. Its really just selling yourself short and possibly damaging.

Plus, I'm suggesting DMZ. Running that for 6 weeks with no SERM is just plain stupid. If he wants to do a low dose epi for 4-5 weeks then roll the dice (I guess) but its 2013. SERMs grow on trees and are more tried and true than ever before.
 
bigflex0 said:
I politely disagree. While many use serms successfully 1000's of cycles have been run worldwide in the history of AAS and plenty of them were run without serms. Is it ideal no, is it a waste? Many have found otherwise.
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My long-term sexual health/endocrine balance is so much more important to me than being able to keep a small amount of gains on a poorly-planned cycle. I've seen lots of serm-less runs and they usually end up with impotence and TRT by early 30s.
 
bigflex0 said:
I politely disagree. While many use serms successfully 1000's of cycles have been run worldwide in the history of AAS and plenty of them were run without serms. Is it ideal no, is it a waste? Many have found otherwise.
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and theres a reason 90% of people lose everything during pct
 
I do not recommend running Supraphysiological dosages of steroid hormones without a serm and proper pct protocol set up. Ever.

It's stupid.
 
jbryand101b said:
I do not recommend running Supraphysiological dosages of steroid hormones without a serm and proper pct protocol set up. Ever.

It's stupid.
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AMEN. If the hormone you're taking is strong enough to give you gains then it's strong enough to mess you up too.
 
Jeff5886 said:
What would be a good DS/PH that might not be as strong but gives very dry gains and has virtually no gyno issues? I am prone to gyno and I'm trying to cut down as much as possible.
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Epi can give you gyno if your prone. Do some research. Anytime you increase testosterone there is the possibility of gyno. Try Formestane. It's an estro blocker and mildly androgenic. It will make you harder and won't give you gyno, in fact it is often used to treat gyno.
 
I was not advising running a cycle without a serm I was simply stating that it was done for a very long time long before the forums ever existed and people got by just fine. To each there own. I do agree that with the ease of availability that it is a no brainer to be safer than sorry but doing it without can be done.
 
bigflex0 said:
I was not advising running a cycle without a serm I was simply stating that it was done for a very long time long before the forums ever existed and people got by just fine. To each there own. I do agree that with the ease of availability that it is a no brainer to be safer than sorry but doing it without can be done.
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people got along just fine for a long time thinking the world was flat. but they were wrong too.
 
bigflex0 said:
I was not advising running a cycle without a serm I was simply stating that it was done for a very long time long before the forums ever existed and people got by just fine. To each there own. I do agree that with the ease of availability that it is a no brainer to be safer than sorry but doing it without can be done.
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Most of these guys don't remember the "no PCT" days :D.....I recall them, even as late as the mid to late 90's and real early 2000's with PH's like 1AD or 4AD or androstendione....nobody did a damn PCT, nor did the AAS users in the 80's-90's and maybe even later than that. Lotta fcked up endocrine systems I guess, myself included lol.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
Most of these guys don't remember the "no PCT" days :D.....I recall them, even as late as the mid to late 90's and real early 2000's with PH's like 1AD or 4AD or androstendione....nobody did a damn PCT, nor did the AAS users in the 80's-90's and maybe even later than that. Lotta fcked up endocrine systems I guess, myself included lol.
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I remember the Andro days lol **** I picked up my first pro hormone in a gnc..a long time ago. No pct back then and coming off cycle sucked so bad!!
 
harbonah said:
I remember the Andro days lol **** I picked up my first pro hormone in a gnc..a long time ago. No pct back then and coming off cycle sucked so bad!!
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Yeah and I'd wonder why my sex drive went into the shytter in my mid 20's.....it was all those PH and whatever, with things like tribestan or various tribulus/test booster products for what was a "PCT" (although it was not defined or known as a PCT lol)....it was just damage control for your sex drive being down.
 
While we're on the topic of PH use from a decade (or more) ago, has anyone noted some delayed and/or long term sides from cycles? I know test levels and impotence are common (especially for those with insufficient/no PCT regiment) but my main fear is not being able to have kids down the road. I've researched it a bit and of course articles warn people of this but I'm curious how common it actually is and if it's heavily reliant on a lack of PCT or not.
 
jbryand101b said:
people got along just fine for a long time thinking the world was flat. but they were wrong too.
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So now I am a member of the flat earth society, awesome.
 
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