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Article: Protein Doesn't Make You Fat

Well, I've been talked down to for a few years now every time I tried to tell anyone that certain macros have certain fates. Yet, all I ever heard was "calories in, calories out" from this board. For the guys that think their degrees give them credibility - take a good look at the study above...

For what is it is worth, protein is the least efficient at being stored as body fat, carbs being in the middle and dietary fats being the most efficient at being stored as body fat. The group with the best results happened to be the one with the highest protein intake and the lowest fat intake. This shouldn't surprise us as the metabolic efficiencies of these three macros is a well known subject.

Consequently, the gain the most muscle mass you'll need a high protein intake for its muscle-building properties as proven in this study, high carb intake for it anabolic insulin properties to shuttle the amino acids and glucose to the muscle, and a low fat intake the ensure that no food (or very little) food is going to the fat cells for storage.

Contrary to popular belief, if you eat a "square" meal consisting of high protein and fiber content with your starchy carbs, the insulin release won't be as dramatic and thus will avoid putting calories up as fat.

On the other hand, its almost impossible to convince anyone on this board to consider a low fat diet, such as 10-20% fat intake with a 50/30 split between carbs and protein...
 
fueledpassion said:
Well, I've been talked down to for a few years now every time I tried to tell anyone that certain macros have certain fates. Yet, all I ever heard was "calories in, calories out" from this board. For the guys that think their degrees give them credibility - take a good look at the study above...

For what is it is worth, protein is the least efficient at being stored as body fat, carbs being in the middle and dietary fats being the most efficient at being stored as body fat. The group with the best results happened to be the one with the highest protein intake and the lowest fat intake. This shouldn't surprise us as the metabolic efficiencies of these three macros is a well known subject.

Consequently, the gain the most muscle mass you'll need a high protein intake for its muscle-building properties as proven in this study, high carb intake for it anabolic insulin properties to shuttle the amino acids and glucose to the muscle, and a low fat intake the ensure that no food (or very little) food is going to the fat cells for storage.

Contrary to popular belief, if you eat a "square" meal consisting of high protein and fiber content with your starchy carbs, the insulin release won't be as dramatic and thus will avoid putting calories up as fat.

On the other hand, its almost impossible to convince anyone on this board to consider a low fat diet, such as 10-20% fat intake with a 50/30 split between carbs and protein...
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Doesnt it have more to do with what you eat the fats with? which is why keto diets work so well to burn fat-

Im honestly asking not trying to flame, because my logic goes like this-

you can eat protein and fats, protein and carbs, but not carbs (starchy) and fats.

I know that you need all three to be "balanced" but in the absence of carbs-and therefore a large insulin spike, wouldnt fat then be fractured and used by the brain and body as energy?

Also-isnt fiber ultimately digested and absorbed as a fat and not a carb? which is why its not counted in total carb intake?
 
I assume that a moderate fat intake + moderate carb intake + "high" protein intake in a moderate caloric surplus would provide the best lbm gains whilst gaining the least amount of fat. . We know that sufficient dietary fats A. Slow absorption of meals (good for insulin) B. Support healthy hormone levels.. This is how I do it, but to each his own.
 
MANotaur said:
Doesnt it have more to do with what you eat the fats with? which is why keto diets work so well to burn fat-

Im honestly asking not trying to flame, because my logic goes like this-

you can eat protein and fats, protein and carbs, but not carbs (starchy) and fats.

I know that you need all three to be "balanced" but in the absence of carbs-and therefore a large insulin spike, wouldnt fat then be fractured and used by the brain and body as energy?
Also-isnt fiber ultimately digested and absorbed as a fat and not a carb? which is why its not counted in total carb intake?
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From my experience, yes to the bold.

To the red - Yes, if you cut enough carbs out, you'll even go Keto which is a bit more efficient that just breaking down fatty acids. The problem I personally have w/ keto and fat heavy diets is really two reasons. 1) is because fats do a poor job @ offering anaerobic performance. My strength, stamina and recovery won't be the same without glycogen-saturated muscles and 2) even though ketone bodies are released due to carbless diets, a fairly high amount of amino acids all gets burned up as energy in the process called gluconeogenesis because amino acids are located in the muscle cell and can be converted quickly enough into glucose to be used during anaerobic training.

So basically in a high fat/high protein diet your protein is used as energy to maintain your BMR, while in a high carb/high protein diet, protein is utilized in growth. Keto is effective and appropriate for those who are looking to lose serious weight and do not particularly care if they also eat away 30lbs of muscle in the process. However, for serious bodybuilders, I do not believe Keto has an appropriate place. And low carb dieting just before a show should only be limited to 3-4 weeks, with anabolic help, in order to avoid muscle-wasting.

I don't know about the fiber. I was under the impression that the body consumes as much energy processing the fiber as the calories that the fiber offers in the first place. For example, some leafy greens that have 10g fiber in them but only have 50 calories is likely to be a stalemate in net calories.
 
mcc23 said:
I assume that a moderate fat intake + moderate carb intake + "high" protein intake in a moderate caloric surplus would provide the best lbm gains whilst gaining the least amount of fat. . We know that sufficient dietary fats A. Slow absorption of meals (good for insulin) B. Support healthy hormone levels.. This is how I do it, but to each his own.
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I have found that 40/40/20 is the gold standard, as Arnold always suggested.
 
fueledpassion said:
From my experience, yes to the bold.

To the red - Yes, if you cut enough carbs out, you'll even go Keto which is a bit more efficient that just breaking down fatty acids. The problem I personally have w/ keto and fat heavy diets is really two reasons. 1) is because fats do a poor job @ offering anaerobic performance. My strength, stamina and recovery won't be the same without glycogen-saturated muscles and 2) even though ketone bodies are released due to carbless diets, a fairly high amount of amino acids all gets burned up as energy in the process called gluconeogenesis because amino acids are located in the muscle cell and can be converted quickly enough into glucose to be used during anaerobic training.

So basically in a high fat/high protein diet your protein is used as energy to maintain your BMR, while in a high carb/high protein diet, protein is utilized in growth. Keto is effective and appropriate for those who are looking to lose serious weight and do not particularly care if they also eat away 30lbs of muscle in the process. However, for serious bodybuilders, I do not believe Keto has an appropriate place. And low carb dieting just before a show should only be limited to 3-4 weeks, with anabolic help, in order to avoid muscle-wasting.

I don't know about the fiber. I was under the impression that the body consumes as much energy processing the fiber as the calories that the fiber offers in the first place. For example, some leafy greens that have 10g fiber in them but only have 50 calories is likely to be a stalemate in net calories.
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thats some good insight-Ive got a pretty good handle on biochemistry and dietary dynamics and basics but my knowledge is still pretty lacking. Which is why I typically don't give nutritional/dieting advice.

My diet is very protein/fat rich. All my meat is tuna/salmon (that I caught and prepared) venison (that I killed)/bison/free range beef (i know its free range cause i get it from my uncle) and fowl of any variety. That is almost always grilled or pan fried in coconut oil. Then after I have eaten my very generous serving of protein i fill in the cracks with veggies. The only time I will add any starch/carb sources is immediately to maybe 2-3 hours post workout.

Im probably doing this way wrong but it seems to be working for me and I tend to stay pretty lean year round if I stick to it and dont slack off
 
MANotaur said:
thats some good insight-Ive got a pretty good handle on biochemistry and dietary dynamics and basics but my knowledge is still pretty lacking. Which is why I typically don't give nutritional/dieting advice.

My diet is very protein/fat rich. All my meat is tuna/salmon (that I caught and prepared) venison (that I killed)/bison/free range beef (i know its free range cause i get it from my uncle) and fowl of any variety. That is almost always grilled or pan fried in coconut oil. Then after I have eaten my very generous serving of protein i fill in the cracks with veggies. The only time I will add any starch/carb sources is immediately to maybe 2-3 hours post workout.

Im probably doing this way wrong but it seems to be working for me and I tend to stay pretty lean year round if I stick to it and dont slack off
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There is no doubt that it works to get you lean and keep you lean. I just find that with my fast metabolism it isn't ideal for bulking, especially in my case where I'm trying to put on 30lbs over the next 6 months.

It sounds like you perform a mild version of back-loading, which is something I might consider next year in the beginning of off-season. Granted, my carb back-load will consist of 300-400g of carbs from 7-10PM and less than 100g throughout the day prior to that.

It sounds like you have found something that works. If I were to take a low carb diet approach, I have to use 600-1000kcals of MCT oils, which in itself is a very anabolic thing to do, and of course drinking BCAA's all the time.

BCAA's can be a life-saver for keto and near-keto diets simply because they will be the preferred amino acid by your muscles to consume when under intense training. BCAA's in this sense are "anti-catabolic".
 
I think the study hits right on, but to each his own lol
 
fueledpassion said:
There is no doubt that it works to get you lean and keep you lean. I just find that with my fast metabolism it isn't ideal for bulking, especially in my case where I'm trying to put on 30lbs over the next 6 months.

It sounds like you perform a mild version of back-loading, which is something I might consider next year in the beginning of off-season. Granted, my carb back-load will consist of 300-400g of carbs from 7-10PM and less than 100g throughout the day prior to that.

It sounds like you have found something that works. If I were to take a low carb diet approach, I have to use 600-1000kcals of MCT oils, which in itself is a very anabolic thing to do, and of course drinking BCAA's all the time.

BCAA's can be a life-saver for keto and near-keto diets simply because they will be the preferred amino acid by your muscles to consume when under intense training. BCAA's in this sense are "anti-catabolic".
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Yeah I found that out per chance. I really had no idea about back loading. I dont fully agree with the whole concept that kiefer lays out because I eat alot of things like squash and zuchini and eggplant that are are fairly carb dense. Im usually around 100-120 grams carbs per day so im definately not keto lol. It just make sense to me that sense starches are a very fast source of energy-if your not immediately going to use that energy it would make more sense to not consume it.

but dang bro 30 pounds in six months! thats crazy! Are you gonna log that?

and your absolutely right about bcaas. Im always drinking them through out the day. I go through about 20-30 grams free form throughout the day.

Ive still got a lot to learn and theres little things here and there that im tweaking and changing. all in due time i guess. Its taking me 12 years to learn to lift right and consistently and i guess its gonna be a life time endeavor trying to figure out my diet
 
MANotaur said:
Yeah I found that out per chance. I really had no idea about back loading. I dont fully agree with the whole concept that kiefer lays out because I eat alot of things like squash and zuchini and eggplant that are are fairly carb dense. Im usually around 100-120 grams carbs per day so im definately not keto lol. It just make sense to me that sense starches are a very fast source of energy-if your not immediately going to use that energy it would make more sense to not consume it.

but dang bro 30 pounds in six months! thats crazy! Are you gonna log that?

and your absolutely right about bcaas. Im always drinking them through out the day. I go through about 20-30 grams free form throughout the day.

Ive still got a lot to learn and theres little things here and there that im tweaking and changing. all in due time i guess. Its taking me 12 years to learn to lift right and consistently and i guess its gonna be a life time endeavor trying to figure out my diet
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I'll log the last 20lbs. I started 6 weeks ago and I'm up 10-12lbs already so only 20lbs to go.. That puts me @ the 190lbs mark.

I'll be reaching out for help with Super DMZ 2.0 + GHRP-6/CJC DAC combo. Should see 15lbs from that alone then the last 5lbs on my own. Since I run TRT, I never have issues "bouncing back" or losing gains. So I'll probably run a 6 week log of that..

100-120g carbs, lol.. yeah thats about how much I bring in 3-4 weeks out from competition, lol. Currently while bulking I bring in 400-550g per day, and I'm only 5'5" and 170lbs, lol.

190lbs is gonna be ridiculous! I'm sure I'll see 600+ grams per day in carbs alone.
 
fueledpassion said:
I'll log the last 20lbs. I started 6 weeks ago and I'm up 10-12lbs already so only 20lbs to go.. That puts me @ the 190lbs mark.

I'll be reaching out for help with Super DMZ 2.0 + GHRP-6/CJC DAC combo. Should see 15lbs from that alone then the last 5lbs on my own. Since I run TRT, I never have issues "bouncing back" or losing gains. So I'll probably run a 6 week log of that..

100-120g carbs, lol.. yeah thats about how much I bring in 3-4 weeks out from competition, lol. Currently while bulking I bring in 400-550g per day, and I'm only 5'5" and 170lbs, lol.

190lbs is gonna be ridiculous! I'm sure I'll see 600+ grams per day in carbs alone.
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Keep me posted! i wanna follow that ish! I about to self perscribe my trt lol. After i finish this LOOONG ass cycle I got planned i think im gonna start.

I dont compete or anything but if i ever decide to im trying to soak in as much knowledge as I can!
 
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