MAX-BULK with 42 bonus caps!!
- Thread starter Cordeen
- Start date
Cordeen
Well-known member
To simplify for those on the fence, this bonus equates to an 8 week cycle at normal dosing of an all in one PH, at a reasonable price once you factor in a rep coupon code, and most importantly one of the more safer available.
With smart training, a good diet, and proper PCT, 5-10 pounds of lean mass would certainly be attainable.
With smart training, a good diet, and proper PCT, 5-10 pounds of lean mass would certainly be attainable.
Colin
Board Sponsor
Personally,I believe that pro-hormones should be ran in 4-6 week cycles,with orals ran at closer to 4 weeks due to their faster "kick in time" opposed to black market long ester injectibles which would require upwards of 6 weeks.
That said,one bottle of Max Bulk works out to TWO separate 4 week cycles,at 4 weeks per cycle,at suggested dosages.I believe a minimalist approach should be utilized with PH's,thereby creating a safer environment due to less stress on the HPTA axis and thus,less likelihood of side effects (lethargy,gyno,acne) and a stronger ability to KEEP the LBM gains made whilst on cycle.Extended cycles tend to disrupt one's natural biorhythms excessively,so the body is less likely to be "fooled" into keeping the LBM aqquired by the assistance of pro-hormones when it is time for PCT.
To elucidate what Cordeen means by his citing of Max-Bulk as an "all in one PH",he is referring to Max Bulk's multiple pathways of action and its practical usage in bulking,cutting or recomping.
In Max Bulk,you have 2 strong pro-hormones,4-DHEA and 19-DHEA,which represent the strongest legal method of a natural conversion to the anabolic steroid testosterone and 19-Nor-testosterone.
To explain in broader and more practical terminology,we are looking at the actions of testosterone and nandrolone within the male body.
These are 2 compounds with "wet" properties,which will act to protect the joints from heavier poundages lifted.19-DHEA is the bigger player here.
Testosterone,in its purest base form,is the king of all androgenic hormones so it will be a key factor in muscle retention and growth while cutting or
recomping.It is as anti-catabolic as possible.This is what is needed when one is in a calorie deficit (cutting) and just as well,the 2 compounds work in tandem to fight off the negative aspects of cutting;lethargy and joint pain.
While dieting under a training and cardio protocol,the body is naturally much more prone to various maladies,ranging from muscle spasms,increased joint and muscular pain....due to the lowered calories,fluid loss in conjunction with the toll of rigorous training.
Speaking bluntly,this is a wretched state to be in.
Max Bulk,will offset this condition by acting as a test base (4-DHEA,offsetting physical & mental manifestations of lowered testosterone) while facilitating fluid retention,especially in the joints via 19-DHEA.
Do not be fooled by the name,it is not only a bulking agent.The two wet compounds in Max Bulk will not add "bloat" while cutting or recomping.Quite the contrary,they will increase muscle hardening and volume.
As such,if Max Bulk is used whilst bulking at a modest kcal surplus of clean food,bloat will not be an issue at all.Of course,if you bulk at 5,000 kcals a day with Burger King as your main protein source,bloat will be an issue.
Back to a cutting scenario.....with proper nutrition and training,one can expect to lose b/f with no LBM loss whatsoever due to Max Bulk's positive effects on protein synthesis and nutrient partitioning.If recomping,one can expect to lose fat and GAIN LBM.
I lie Marc McDoulsLose Fat Like You're On Crack training for cutting and the same applies for recomping...although LFLYOC would be alternated with heavier lifting like a x5 (with max effort days) on the 2nd and 4th week.
I'd suggest a rather basic 5x5 push/pull protocol during PCT for cutting and recomping cycles with cardio frequency dropped by 50-75% during PCT,in order to quicken recovery and retain LBM gains.
I strongly advise that cordyceps be employed while on cycle,to act as an HCG mimetic.There was a lengthy thread on this on mindandmuscle forums a while back,I'll post a link to said thread here shortly,with a supporting abstract as well.
I like Smart Powders bulk cordyceps powder for this,it is the most cost effective and most potent extract available,with no filler/additives.
Bulking strategies to be discussed shortly,as well as more options for cutting & recomping.
Comments and questions are welcome....
abformulations
Legend
I definitely agree here. You can also add this to many others. Mmmm makes me want to purchase now lol.
blurryimage
Member
Can I get a rep to message me a coupon code? I want to run this really bad this winter.
Colin
Board Sponsor
You can enter my name at checkout (Colin) and that will act as a 15% off coupon.
Colin
Board Sponsor
As I stated in my last post,see below for a concise low down on using cordyceps as an HCG mimetic while on a pro-hormone cycle.
Here is an excellent qoute by Nightop from mindandmuscle,summarizing the potential of HCG whilst on cycle.A viable alternative to HCG would be cordyceps,which I will provide references for below.
Nightop also breaks down the most efficient way to run a PH (or AAS) cycle,which hardly no one ever uses.It is all too common to see misinformed posters citing they are stacking 40mg of a Superdrol clone with 50mg of a Havoc clone daily for 6+ weeks and so on....or even double dosing a mild PH like our Lean Cuts and foregoing PCT,then wondering if they have gyno b/c said unfortunate user has tell tale signs of gyno.......not good,by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm posting this qoute up as a counter attack on such a mentality,I hope many find it useful
Originally Posted by nightop Invalid Link Removed During cycle, negative feedback at the hypothalamus and pituitary decrease GnRH and LH release (technically the nature of the effect is AAS and individual/context specific, but in general there is a decrease in the frequency and/or amplitude of the pulses of both hormones). So, less LH signaling at the testes means less endogenous androgen production, i.e. 'shutdown'. Upon cessation of AAS use, GnRH and LH release returns to normal fairly quickly, but if the AAS-use period has been long enough, the testes have by-then altered response to the LH, making 'recovery' a slow process.
If you take HCG during cycle, you will still have decreased GnRH and LH release, but the HCG acts as LH in the testes, maintaining endogenous hormone production and responsiveness of the testes. This way, once you stop the cycle, you quickly taper the HCG and begin use of a SERM, so that GnRH and LH release returns to normal as fast as possible, and your testes don't skip a beat. Even better would be to start the SERM at a low/moderate dose while on cycle with the HCG, so that the main negative feedback is AR-mediated, which is less pronounced then ER-mediated. That way, you still have some degree of GnRH and LH release along with HCG signaling at the testes, so that at the end of the cycle, you just stop the HCG.
Now, that is the right way to use AAS, and virtually nobody does it. Lets now consider your question about using a GnRH agonist post-cycle. If you ran a normal AAS cycle without a SERM or HCG on-cycle, and then post cycle you used a GnRH receptor agonist/mimetic (which is what I assume you mean by GnRH agonist), this will not help the recovery, because LH is already returning to normal quickly but the testes have very low response to it. So, using a GnRH receptor agonist post-cycle is not ideal or really beneficial.
Now, the next scenario, which is not what you were asking, but actually could be beneficial, is to use a GnRH receptor agonist during cycle along with a SERM (but no HCG), so that your LH release remains somewhat near-normal, keeping testicular response and function somewhat normal, so that at the end of the cycle, you stop everything but the SERM, and then endogenous GnRH will quickly return to normal and nothing skips a beat. This is entirely speculation though, as there are a lot of variables that are too complicated to go into here, which could confound such a situation.
Furthermore, the old canonical HPTA mechanisms/theory is actually not very accurate. There are entirely independent regulatory and signaling mechanisms involved at multiple levels, that have very little cross-talk with the normal GnRH/LH/testes pathways that people are so familiar with.
I ought to just make this part of my sig. -- the best way to run an AAS cycle is as follows (excluding general-health related ancillaries/supplements):
Moderate dose testosterone
3-6 weeks duration
low dose HCG EOD or EOOD
low/moderate dose SERM
Upon cessation of the testosterone, quickly taper or just stop HCG use, and increase the SERM dose a little, while eating hypercaloric diet, then after a few weeks taper the SERM, with a steroidal AI on-hand for any estrogen-related rebound issues. Tah-dah.
Here is an excellent qoute by Nightop from mindandmuscle,summarizing the potential of HCG whilst on cycle.A viable alternative to HCG would be cordyceps,which I will provide references for below.
Nightop also breaks down the most efficient way to run a PH (or AAS) cycle,which hardly no one ever uses.It is all too common to see misinformed posters citing they are stacking 40mg of a Superdrol clone with 50mg of a Havoc clone daily for 6+ weeks and so on....or even double dosing a mild PH like our Lean Cuts and foregoing PCT,then wondering if they have gyno b/c said unfortunate user has tell tale signs of gyno.......not good,by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm posting this qoute up as a counter attack on such a mentality,I hope many find it useful
Originally Posted by nightop Invalid Link Removed During cycle, negative feedback at the hypothalamus and pituitary decrease GnRH and LH release (technically the nature of the effect is AAS and individual/context specific, but in general there is a decrease in the frequency and/or amplitude of the pulses of both hormones). So, less LH signaling at the testes means less endogenous androgen production, i.e. 'shutdown'. Upon cessation of AAS use, GnRH and LH release returns to normal fairly quickly, but if the AAS-use period has been long enough, the testes have by-then altered response to the LH, making 'recovery' a slow process.
If you take HCG during cycle, you will still have decreased GnRH and LH release, but the HCG acts as LH in the testes, maintaining endogenous hormone production and responsiveness of the testes. This way, once you stop the cycle, you quickly taper the HCG and begin use of a SERM, so that GnRH and LH release returns to normal as fast as possible, and your testes don't skip a beat. Even better would be to start the SERM at a low/moderate dose while on cycle with the HCG, so that the main negative feedback is AR-mediated, which is less pronounced then ER-mediated. That way, you still have some degree of GnRH and LH release along with HCG signaling at the testes, so that at the end of the cycle, you just stop the HCG.
Now, that is the right way to use AAS, and virtually nobody does it. Lets now consider your question about using a GnRH agonist post-cycle. If you ran a normal AAS cycle without a SERM or HCG on-cycle, and then post cycle you used a GnRH receptor agonist/mimetic (which is what I assume you mean by GnRH agonist), this will not help the recovery, because LH is already returning to normal quickly but the testes have very low response to it. So, using a GnRH receptor agonist post-cycle is not ideal or really beneficial.
Now, the next scenario, which is not what you were asking, but actually could be beneficial, is to use a GnRH receptor agonist during cycle along with a SERM (but no HCG), so that your LH release remains somewhat near-normal, keeping testicular response and function somewhat normal, so that at the end of the cycle, you stop everything but the SERM, and then endogenous GnRH will quickly return to normal and nothing skips a beat. This is entirely speculation though, as there are a lot of variables that are too complicated to go into here, which could confound such a situation.
Furthermore, the old canonical HPTA mechanisms/theory is actually not very accurate. There are entirely independent regulatory and signaling mechanisms involved at multiple levels, that have very little cross-talk with the normal GnRH/LH/testes pathways that people are so familiar with.
I ought to just make this part of my sig. -- the best way to run an AAS cycle is as follows (excluding general-health related ancillaries/supplements):
Moderate dose testosterone
3-6 weeks duration
low dose HCG EOD or EOOD
low/moderate dose SERM
Upon cessation of the testosterone, quickly taper or just stop HCG use, and increase the SERM dose a little, while eating hypercaloric diet, then after a few weeks taper the SERM, with a steroidal AI on-hand for any estrogen-related rebound issues. Tah-dah.
Colin
Board Sponsor
A very informative thread on cordyceps as an HCG mimetic for PH users.
Invalid Link Removed
An alternative to Smart Powders bulk cordyceps would be Forerunner's Cordyceps capped product,which Travis cites references for in the thread below,as well.
Invalid Link Removed
Here is the key abstract indicating cordyceps potential for on cycle usage,as an HCG mimetic.As noted in the first linked thread,this applies only to on cycle usage.Cordyceps would be counterproductive to our goals in a PCT setting but it should be very helpful while actively using pro-hormones.
Am J Chin Med. 2008;36(5):849-59
Effect of Cordyceps militaris supplementation on sperm production, sperm motility and hormones in Sprague-Dawley rats.
Chang Y, Jeng KC, Huang KF, Lee YC, Hou CW, Chen KH, Cheng FY, Liao JW, Chen YS.
Jenteh Junior College of Medicine and Nursing Management, Miaoli, Taiwan.
Cordyceps species have been traditionally used as for the enhancement of sexual function, but its direct evidence is lacking. We investigated the spermatogenic effect of Cordyceps militaris (CM) as supplementation with CM mycelium to 7-week-old male Sprague-Dawley (SD) rats. Ninety rats (30 for each group) were selected to regular diet or diet supplemented with CM mycelium (1% and 5%) for 6 weeks. Epididymal sperm were collected from 6 animals per group at each interval of observation. They were allowed to recover for one week. The quality and quantity of sperm were compared in these rats. The CM supplementation resulted in an increase of serum cordycepin concentration (n = 6, each group) that correlated with treatment time and the cordycepin level was significantly higher (p < 0.05) in 5% group as compared to 1% group at the 5th and 6th week. Epididymal sperm count was enhanced significantly from the control, at the 5th week and peaked at the 6th week in both groups supplemented with CM (each time point, n = 6; p < 0.05) and maintained for 2 weeks after stopping the treatment. Increased serum testosterone and estradiol-17 (E2) concentrations were found in rats with the CM supplementation (p < 0.05), but not other hormones such as follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH) or prolactin. Importantly, percentages of motile sperm cells were also enhanced significantly (p < 0.05) paralleled the serum testosterone pattern from the supplement groups as compared to the control group. Taken together, these results indicate that supplementation with CM improves sperm quality and quantity in rats.
PMID: 19051352
Invalid Link Removed
An alternative to Smart Powders bulk cordyceps would be Forerunner's Cordyceps capped product,which Travis cites references for in the thread below,as well.
Invalid Link Removed
Here is the key abstract indicating cordyceps potential for on cycle usage,as an HCG mimetic.As noted in the first linked thread,this applies only to on cycle usage.Cordyceps would be counterproductive to our goals in a PCT setting but it should be very helpful while actively using pro-hormones.
Am J Chin Med. 2008;36(5):849-59
Effect of Cordyceps militaris supplementation on sperm production, sperm motility and hormones in Sprague-Dawley rats.
Chang Y, Jeng KC, Huang KF, Lee YC, Hou CW, Chen KH, Cheng FY, Liao JW, Chen YS.
Jenteh Junior College of Medicine and Nursing Management, Miaoli, Taiwan.
Cordyceps species have been traditionally used as for the enhancement of sexual function, but its direct evidence is lacking. We investigated the spermatogenic effect of Cordyceps militaris (CM) as supplementation with CM mycelium to 7-week-old male Sprague-Dawley (SD) rats. Ninety rats (30 for each group) were selected to regular diet or diet supplemented with CM mycelium (1% and 5%) for 6 weeks. Epididymal sperm were collected from 6 animals per group at each interval of observation. They were allowed to recover for one week. The quality and quantity of sperm were compared in these rats. The CM supplementation resulted in an increase of serum cordycepin concentration (n = 6, each group) that correlated with treatment time and the cordycepin level was significantly higher (p < 0.05) in 5% group as compared to 1% group at the 5th and 6th week. Epididymal sperm count was enhanced significantly from the control, at the 5th week and peaked at the 6th week in both groups supplemented with CM (each time point, n = 6; p < 0.05) and maintained for 2 weeks after stopping the treatment. Increased serum testosterone and estradiol-17 (E2) concentrations were found in rats with the CM supplementation (p < 0.05), but not other hormones such as follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH) or prolactin. Importantly, percentages of motile sperm cells were also enhanced significantly (p < 0.05) paralleled the serum testosterone pattern from the supplement groups as compared to the control group. Taken together, these results indicate that supplementation with CM improves sperm quality and quantity in rats.
PMID: 19051352
blurryimage
Member
Colin, how much cordyceps did you take a day? 500mg twice a day? And did you just mix with water?
Thanks
Thanks
Colin
Board Sponsor
Sure man.
I dosed 4 grams (in caps) with breakfast,no need to immerse the powder in water.As HCG is dosed in the morning,the same applies to cordy.
I will post more shortly on this when I get access to my laptop,my apologies for the terse reply,using my cell to type this...accursed monkey thumbs of mine do not make for efficient typing speed.
Colin
Board Sponsor
Cheers mate.
I picked up a lot thru the scientific based discussions on that board over the years,back before the new owners started banning members for such.
It is no better than bb.com now,just a bunch of brobots pimping their products.
To be fair,a lot of what I learned was also via my own n=1 trial and countless errors.hehe.
Cordeen
Well-known member
Those trials on pubmed? Lol.
Colin
Board Sponsor
There's no need to mix with water,capsules dissolve quickly in the gut.The study on cordy used water as a delivery vehicle,that is all.You could if you wanted to be all hardcore about it but trust me,unless you like testing your gag reflex,you'll vastly prefer capped cordyceps over mixing it with water and downing it.
blurryimage
Member
Well I ordered the bulk powder cordy, but I don't have a capper so it looks like I will be testing it out with water. I hope it doesn't taste to bad
Colin
Board Sponsor
Hate to be the one to tell ya but it tastes pretty damn bad,broslice.
Cap' Em Quik and a 1000 count bag of gelatin caps will run you about $20,well worth the investment.It's a PITA,even with the capping machine,to cap your own but it saves a decent amount of dough in the long run.
If you're using general health supps like green tea extract,MSM,choindroiton,glucosamine,cissus and so on....you're looking at saving around 75% off buying pre-capped product.Over the course of a year,if you track the money you likely spend on pre-capped supplements (as I have),it gets to be ridiculous when with a bit of time involved you save hundreds of dollars.
I crunched the numbers a few years back and started buying whatever OTC supps I used that were available in bulk powder form and it came out to over a grand a year in savings for me.
Cap' Em Quik and a 1000 count bag of gelatin caps will run you about $20,well worth the investment.It's a PITA,even with the capping machine,to cap your own but it saves a decent amount of dough in the long run.
If you're using general health supps like green tea extract,MSM,choindroiton,glucosamine,cissus and so on....you're looking at saving around 75% off buying pre-capped product.Over the course of a year,if you track the money you likely spend on pre-capped supplements (as I have),it gets to be ridiculous when with a bit of time involved you save hundreds of dollars.
I crunched the numbers a few years back and started buying whatever OTC supps I used that were available in bulk powder form and it came out to over a grand a year in savings for me.
Joint Fracture
Member
Ho-boy! MB looks tempting, but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger due to its price (though the 15% discount is cool).
NADDANME
Well-known member
There is also the buy 3 get 30% going on or pm me I might have another code
Invalid Link Removed
Joint Fracture
Member
Cool, thanks for the info!
Cordeen
Well-known member
With the exception of P-BOLD which is super flexible in any stack.....all of our products contain 2 or 3 DHEA derivatives in the one bottle....sorta like a kit really...and with an average of 6 weeks for standard dosing per bottle versus the usual 4 weeks that we normally see in most others....and considering the lack of harmful sides....the easy recovery.....and the on-cycle support in each formula....I think the price after discount is reasonable on all AF products.
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
Bump!
xhrr
Well-known member
My brother is about to order a bottle but was wondering if there is still the 42 extra caps in these bottles?
xhrr
Well-known member
appreciated!
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
Definitely a good opportunity for anyone out there.