I'm at a complete loss of what to do and need some help

ws65 said:
I just want to get back as much alpha male/libido/horny/want to f**k everything that moves feeling. .
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I've been trying to get that feeling back for YEARS. TRT didn't really do it. Well, Testim actually helped once in a while, but the rise in e2 would give me bad anxiety. I would sell my soul to get a strong sex drive back. I've pretty much given up, all doctors/endos I've met with have no idea.
 
I feel like all the research I've done says that it can be done....raise the T to a more optimal level while keeping my E numbers right where they are. That's where I'm a little unsure...would Erase be enough to keep the E where it is while doing a pump or two of the androgel? Or Forma Stane (Stanzol, whatever)? Or would be a very low dose of Aromasin or Arimimdex or something? Maybe a low dose of Proviron (sp?). I was thinking of maybe some Cabergoline and the Cialis for raging boners, but I don't know if you can take .25mg twice a week of Cabergoline indefinitely? These are where my questions are....what to take and how much to get as Optimal as possible.
 
ws65 said:
I feel like all the research I've done says that it can be done....raise the T to a more optimal level while keeping my E numbers right where they are. That's where I'm a little unsure...would Erase be enough to keep the E where it is while doing a pump or two of the androgel? Or Forma Stane (Stanzol, whatever)? Or would be a very low dose of Aromasin or Arimimdex or something? Maybe a low dose of Proviron (sp?). I was thinking of maybe some Cabergoline and the Cialis for raging boners, but I don't know if you can take .25mg twice a week of Cabergoline indefinitely? These are where my questions are....what to take and how much to get as Optimal as possible.
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Forma will be the easiest and best OTC for e2 control. I've been prescribed Cabergoline before, and it made me feel very euphoric for the first few weeks, but then did nothing. Just remember as far as sex drive goes, it's better to have e2 numbers that are too high rather than too low. If you drop your e2 too low, even Cialis won't give you a boner. I've heard Proviron will make you super horny, but it's a prescription that is really only used in Europe. I can balance my test/e2 ratio perfectly, but it still doesn't give me a raging sex drive. I'll wake up with morning wood, but as far as that feeling where you think about sex all the time, and wanna hook up with every decent looking female you see, it's just not there. The only reason I'm continuing TRT is I'm afraid I'll lose all the natural muscle I've gained over the past 15 years since I'm shutdown. That scares the **** outta me.
 
Yup, that's why I was suggesting low doses of the E stuff I was mentioning because I know that as soon as I start Androgel, T and E should both go up and I would like to keep a good ratio there (not too low and E and not too high)...I was on OG Erase of two caps a day and you see my numbers above (was off the Erase for 2-3 weeks before bloodtest).
 
ws65 said:
Hmm..scratch the DHT shyt, if I read right, androgel will also increase DHT to an extent (correct me if I'm wrong)...I'm going to wait for you guys to give some more thoughts on this....again, tired of feeling tired (even when I do get good sleep, I feel tired, not super passout need to sleep tired, the feeling old feeling) and I just want to get back as much alpha male/libido/horny/want to f**k everything that moves feeling. Could my prolactin levels be a bit elevated based on what I described in post 49?

An additional note, at times I do feel stressed out a bit, it isn't always, but it is there from time to time, so I wonder if a very mild cortisol control would be good for me...dunno...experts, AH, Matrix, vass...all chime in please.
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If and when you get on androgel, apply one pump to your balls....you'll get 100% DHT conversion down there. But yes, they will test for DHT, prolactin, estradiol etc. etc. BUT you need to request it, some of it is female only unless its requested. I do like to use cortisol control stuff like reduce XT and 7/11 spray...I usually cycle them of course. But I used to have more anxiety when I was younger, now I don't seem to give a fck what everybody else thinks so I'm less anxious as a result :D. But as for application areas, I do one pump each shoulder/delt/trap/upper arm area.....one on each upper groin area (the area above the genitals and below the belly button) in the morning.....then one pump each shoulder again at night, and 1-2 pumps in the man region (for DHT conversion). If I do 10 pumps? I just put one extra pump morning and night under one of my armpits.
 
ws65 said:
Yup, that's why I was suggesting low doses of the E stuff I was mentioning because I know that as soon as I start Androgel, T and E should both go up and I would like to keep a good ratio there (not too low and E and not too high)...I was on OG Erase of two caps a day and you see my numbers above (was off the Erase for 2-3 weeks before bloodtest).
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PFFFTTT! on the erase :D.....like lex said, use forma...its the only option I've found OTC that is actually "prescription strength". I've been using it off and on for years now, and got the bright idea to use it instead of arimidex or aromasin a while back while on TRT (took me a while to remember/figure it out lol)....I'll have my estradiol #'s back next week, got blood drawn today.....hope it gets me into the 30's at least :crossfingers:
 
AnabolicHolic said:
If and when you get on androgel, apply one pump to your balls....you'll get 100% DHT conversion down there. But yes, they will test for DHT, prolactin, estradiol etc. etc. BUT you need to request it, some of it is female only unless its requested. I do like to use cortisol control stuff like reduce XT and 7/11 spray...I usually cycle them of course. But I used to have more anxiety when I was younger, now I don't seem to give a fck what everybody else thinks so I'm less anxious as a result :D. But as for application areas, I do one pump each shoulder/delt/trap/upper arm area.....one on each upper groin area (the area above the genitals and below the belly button) in the morning.....then one pump each shoulder again at night, and 1-2 pumps in the man region (for DHT conversion). If I do 10 pumps? I just put one extra pump morning and night under one of my armpits.
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How do you put on that much Androgel and not have a test level over 1500? When I used Testim, my levels were at 1400 at one dose per day! I cut the dose in half and my number was still in the upper 800's. I absorb like a sponge though, if I have my hands underwater for 5 minutes I get extreme prune fingers.

One more thing, can super high DHT cause a loss of sex drive? I've always heard it can make your prostrate swell, but will you lose your libido or have erection issues with super high DHT? I'm thinking of doing some experimenting on myself.
 
AH how about the Proviron? It's known to boost libido, lower SHBG, which increases free T, and is a mild AI...I'm just worried that in the morning putting on two transdermals would take a while....geesh, I don't think I need the number of pumps your doing based on my numbers right?

I really need some direction on a good protocol to meet my needs
 
lexmuscle said:
How do you put on that much Androgel and not have a test level over 1500? When I used Testim, my levels were at 1400 at one dose per day! I cut the dose in half and my number was still in the upper 800's. I absorb like a sponge though, if I have my hands underwater for 5 minutes I get extreme prune fingers.

One more thing, can super high DHT cause a loss of sex drive? I've always heard it can make your prostrate swell, but will you lose your libido or have erection issues with super high DHT? I'm thinking of doing some experimenting on myself.
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haha, yeah I am in the 900's at 10 pumps....I will get my most recent test # next week with my estrogen #'s, so I'll know 100% what my test levels are at 10 pumps 10 hours removed from application #2 at night. Mind you this is only 1% androgel, not sure if it compares similarly to testim? (I believe it does...). But remember, I put 2 pumps down below....so I believe 8 pumps are going towards actual testosterone #'s, and being up near 1K on 8 pumps sounds about right to me. But we shall see next week for certain with the lab results.

DHT should only increase sex drive, I've never heard of it decreasing sex drive. But perhaps somebody with more intricate knowledge of DHT can elaborate on that. Yes, it does balloon up your prostate....but a good saw palmetto extract always worked for me, unless it was estrogen related, then it seemed nothing helped to relieve the swelling.

ws65 said:
AH how about the Proviron? It's known to boost libido, lower SHBG, which increases free T, and is a mild AI...I'm just worried that in the morning putting on two transdermals would take a while....geesh, I don't think I need the number of pumps your doing based on my numbers right?

I really need some direction on a good protocol to meet my needs
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Yeah proviron is good stuff all around, but personally it never did much for me in the past....and I had the legit, in the bottle rx from the middle east stuff from a great source back in the day. Everybody else raves about it though....I just use nettle extract for SHBG, forma for the AI, and the androgel of course (plus some DHT gel). I will say that your initial levels are of no consequence to what you will get while on androgel....exogenous test wipes out that 500 whatever number to essentially zero....then you use the androgel to build back up to where you need/want to be. I have found that each pump of 1% = ~80 points on my test score. so 1.62 would probably equate to 140 or so per pump I assume. you need to figure out your own personal absorption rate with labs, then you can extrapolate what you will need to get to where you want to be....say you get to 300 on 2 pumps of 1.62%....then 4 pumps would = 600, or 5 pumps = 750 etc.
 
So starting at two pumps of the 3.24% would be sufficient? I would like to be past the middle of the range (324-1197 is the range)
 
ws65 said:
So starting at two pumps of the 3.24% would be sufficient? I would like to be past the middle of the range (324-1197 is the range)
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Should be easily at those percentages...no promises though lol.
 
Lol, no worries AH, I won't hold you to it...so can you recommend exactly what else I should be taking with androgel so that I can keep things in balance...again, I won't hold you or anyone responsible for any suggestions given to me.
 
ws65 said:
Lol, no worries AH, I won't hold you to it...so can you recommend exactly what else I should be taking with androgel so that I can keep things in balance...again, I won't hold you or anyone responsible for any suggestions given to me.
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You said something that you want to be horney all the time...secret to that is to keep test around 900ish. I know everyone is different but that number seems to be the sweet spot for many.Mine is around 1000 for others may be 800. So whatever you end up doing go up slowly and keep it around that number with low estrogen till find your spot and stay there.
Usually with exchagenous test estrogen tends to creep up. If you want to do blood work and it's high then add a small AI in the mix. My choice is aromasin.
 
ws65 said:
Lol, no worries AH, I won't hold you to it...so can you recommend exactly what else I should be taking with androgel so that I can keep things in balance...again, I won't hold you or anyone responsible for any suggestions given to me.
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You gotta A) get started on it, then B) dial it in, then you can C) add things to the protocol. First things first :D Its a very slow marathon believe me, and the less crap you have skewing the results the better.... at least until you get to the range you want to be in, then you can fck around with it and manipulate DHT or estradiol etc.
 
Gotcha vass and AH...I was hoping the Andro would get here today, alas, it didn't so I probably won't get it delivered till Tuesday :(
I think a good way to start will be two pumps, then after a couple of weeks, I might consider a couple OG Erase daily...we'll see. I do want to get some Cabergoline since I believe I might have some above normal prolactin due to what I described earlier...may consider a natty cortisol reduce since I have been under some stress lately...again, we'll see...but as soon as the Andro gets delivered, it's on!
 
ws65 said:
Gotcha vass and AH...I was hoping the Andro would get here today, alas, it didn't so I probably won't get it delivered till Tuesday :(
I think a good way to start will be two pumps, then after a couple of weeks, I might consider a couple OG Erase daily...we'll see. I do want to get some Cabergoline since I believe I might have some above normal prolactin due to what I described earlier...may consider a natty cortisol reduce since I have been under some stress lately...again, we'll see...but as soon as the Andro gets delivered, it's on!
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Why don't you get your prolactin (and everything else) checked via labs? That is what I did, I had sex drive issues and thought it may be prolactin or maybe estrogen....turned out my prolactin was at 7 (which is fine, middle of range) and my estrogen was through the roof....its better to find out what the problem is first before medicating for it...esp with caber, caber will boost your sex drive whether you have high prolactin or not as an example.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
Why don't you get your prolactin (and everything else) checked via labs? .......esp with caber, caber will boost your sex drive whether you have high prolactin or not as an example.
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That's kinda why I want the caber...boost sex drive mostly and secondary lower the prolactin (if it needs it) I would just dose .25mg twice a week if I did...and, as you see from my test results, it looks like the E is fine.
 
ws65 said:
Gotcha vass and AH...I was hoping the Andro would get here today, alas, it didn't so I probably won't get it delivered till Tuesday :(
I think a good way to start will be two pumps, then after a couple of weeks, I might consider a couple OG Erase daily...we'll see. I do want to get some Cabergoline since I believe I might have some above normal prolactin due to what I described earlier...may consider a natty cortisol reduce since I have been under some stress lately...again, we'll see...but as soon as the Andro gets delivered, it's on!
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may want to do some blood work if you think other hormones are off . Prob would be better to start your protocol wait a few weeks then do the bloodwork and see where everything is...once you hit the sweet spot then bloodwork again so you have a base for the future if it goes out of wack again.
 
ws65 said:
That's kinda why I want the caber...boost sex drive mostly and secondary lower the prolactin (if it needs it) I would just dose .25mg twice a week if I did...and, as you see from my test results, it looks like the E is fine.
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That is actually how I dose it whenever I take it, M and TH at .5mg each day....or I guess before you fck lol
 
vassille said:
I agree lol
.5 twice a week seems to be the right dose for this purpose
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did you ever feel it was giving you any side effects? I thought it may have increased my heart rate from low 80's to mid 90's...something did, and i thought it may have been the caber.
 
To both of you, if you dose the caber as suggested and take low dose cialis daily, would you still get the super erections I'm looking for if you were f*cking every day? So could you take the caber and cialis like that indefinitely? Hopefully just the big increase will take care of this...just trying to get all the bases covered.
 
ws65 said:
To both of you, if you dose the caber as suggested and take low dose cialis daily, would you still get the super erections I'm looking for if you were f*cking every day? So could you take the caber and cialis like that indefinitely? Hopefully just the big increase will take care of this...just trying to get all the bases covered.
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well I know viagra was originally intended for every day use for cardiomyopathy patients....but the "side effect" of hard-ons sort of ruined the whole idea....or actually it set the drug off in a totally different direction. It seems like much of the time your body adjusts to these rx meds and they lose their effect over time....so I'd just use them when necessary. As in taking a larger dose only when needed, as opposed to staying on them at lower dosages 365. That being said, you can always try it and find out what daily cialis and E3D caber does for you and if it loses its effectiveness over time....you can be the guinea pig :D
 
AnabolicHolic said:
did you ever feel it was giving you any side effects? I thought it may have increased my heart rate from low 80's to mid 90's...something did, and i thought it may have been the caber.
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No sides of that nature for me with caber. Has to be something else
what else r u taking?
 
ws65 said:
To both of you, if you dose the caber as suggested and take low dose cialis daily, would you still get the super erections I'm looking for if you were f*cking every day? So could you take the caber and cialis like that indefinitely? Hopefully just the big increase will take care of this...just trying to get all the bases covered.
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yes, you will be a porn star:)
I guess you can take it for long periods of time I dont see any problems but from my experience if I take a regular cialis with caber I basically get a hard on for days and for me it gets annoying. If I brush against somethin I get a hard on..lol
So I only take cialis and caber on occasions or if I do a tren cycle. My test level being around 1000 I get normal errections all the time anyway.
 
vassille said:
No sides of that nature for me with caber. Has to be something else
what else r u taking?
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It happened while I was on vacation and the week I got back....then it went back to normal the last two times I checked the past few weeks (on the same machine to be sure it was controlled)....the only thing I was taking, then not taking, was the caber....I did start forma on vacation though, but I have been steady on it for the entire time....90's heartbeat and 80's heartbeat, so it wasn't the forma. I think the caber is bunk anyways now that I think about it, hasn't been effecting me like I know it should. Must have been some random anomaly where my heart rate rose up for a few weeks....God only knows, I'm happy if it just stays normal from here on out to be honest.
 
vassille said:
yes, you will be a porn star:)
I guess you can take it for long periods of time I dont see any problems but from my experience if I take a regular cialis with caber I basically get a hard on for days and for me it gets annoying. If I brush against somethin I get a hard on..lol
So I only take cialis and caber on occasions or if I do a tren cycle. My test level being around 1000 I get normal errections all the time anyway.
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But I could take the cialis daily and the caber twice a week and not worry about any permanent damage right? I hope I can get my T levels up to the point where I wouldn't need the cialis/caber...

To AH...I would think the cialis wouldn't lose effect since there is a daily prescription for it at 2.5mg or 5mg daily...I know, since it was prescribed to me like that lol. Of course that doesn't mean it loses it's effectiveness but who knows.
 
ws65 said:
But I could take the cialis daily and the caber twice a week and not worry about any permanent damage right? I hope I can get my T levels up to the point where I wouldn't need the cialis/caber...

To AH...I would think the cialis wouldn't lose effect since there is a daily prescription for it at 2.5mg or 5mg daily...I know, since it was prescribed to me like that lol. Of course that doesn't mean it loses it's effectiveness but who knows.
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haha I hear you!
No damage that i know of... you can indulge yourself if you wish lol;)
 
ws65 said:
But I could take the cialis daily and the caber twice a week and not worry about any permanent damage right? I hope I can get my T levels up to the point where I wouldn't need the cialis/caber...

To AH...I would think the cialis wouldn't lose effect since there is a daily prescription for it at 2.5mg or 5mg daily...I know, since it was prescribed to me like that lol. Of course that doesn't mean it loses it's effectiveness but who knows.
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haha I hear you!
No damage that i know of... you can indulge yourself if you wish;)
 
Guys, is there anything natural I can take to keep the boys looking full? I know that being on Androgel can cause shrinkage and I would like to keep them as full as possible. I know that HCG can take care of this but I do not have access to HCG.
By the way, put the first two pumps on this morning, one on each shoulder, upper arm, and little on my upper back. I hope doing this protocol of the 3.24% will give me a nice increase in my T levels. Is there anything I should add to this for things like SHGB, Estrogen, etc? I was thinking of taking DIM...I heard that it helps keep the good E around instead of bad E...is this correct thinking or should I just low dose Aromasin? This sucks not having a doctor but it is what it is (not that a doctor would do any of this for me anyways)...could use all the help I can on this one. I'm kind of surprised Matrix hasn't said anything since I posted the lab results.
 
ws65 said:
Guys, is there anything natural I can take to keep the boys looking full? I know that being on Androgel can cause shrinkage and I would like to keep them as full as possible. I know that HCG can take care of this but I do not have access to HCG.
By the way, put the first two pumps on this morning, one on each shoulder, upper arm, and little on my upper back. I hope doing this protocol of the 3.24% will give me a nice increase in my T levels. Is there anything I should add to this for things like SHGB, Estrogen, etc? I was thinking of taking DIM...I heard that it helps keep the good E around instead of bad E...is this correct thinking or should I just low dose Aromasin? This sucks not having a doctor but it is what it is (not that a doctor would do any of this for me anyways)...could use all the help I can on this one. I'm kind of surprised Matrix hasn't said anything since I posted the lab results.
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Nope, not that I know of. I've been dealing with half size nuts for almost 2 years now from TRT. The size doesn't bother me that much, it's the fact that they don't hang anymore which makes my sack look prepubescent. Docs could give a f*ck less.
 
Crap, I hate needles, I wish I can find a source for the nasal HCG...I spent several hours last night trying to find it. BTW, even though mpresearch has a site up, I've seen numerous reviews that have said that people have ordered, submitted payment, then heard nothing :(
I don't know where I can get the nasal hcg :(
 
Maybe I am missing something in my life, but I don't recall the last time I gazed at my bag to assess its appearance.
 
Beau said:
Maybe I am missing something in my life, but I don't recall the last time I gazed at my bag to assess its appearance.
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So you can't recount the last time you showered either? Yeah, you're missing something alright haha jk
 
lexmuscle said:
So you can't recount the last time you showered either? Yeah, you're missing something alright haha jk
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No I just showered, and then reserved several special moments appreciating the dimensions and topography of my man bag.

Now, I must admit, this will surely be a part pf my daily regimen from this day forth.
 
Welcome to AM.....the land of the TRT'ers who "don't care" about the size of their balls....or the fact that they may be non-existent....supposedly :D
 
Back on topic...but that was funny, lol...if anyone can PM me about the nasal hcg, I'd really appreciate it.
 
ws65 said:
Back on topic...but that was funny, lol...if anyone can PM me about the nasal hcg, I'd really appreciate it.
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between lex's "I WANT MY BALLS BACK!" posts....and my calling out of guys who don't care about their balls....this happens about bi-weekly lol....you'll just have to get used to it :D but I've never heard of nasal HCG...you know hCG can be injected into the fat via tiny slin pins right? no biggie even for a needle-phobe.
 
I just don't want to have to explain the whole needle thing...I swear I've seen a lot of people say that it comes in a nasal spray...then I can just say it's for my allergies.
 
ws65 said:
I just don't want to have to explain the whole needle thing...I swear I've seen a lot of people say that it comes in a nasal spray...then I can just say it's for my allergies.
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Well the problem is that IF indeed it comes in a nasal spray? guess what? it's probably not going to be available from your local UG supplier or even fly by night online pharmacy....sounds like some new fangled expensive drug company thing that you'd need a script for. I don't think you would find it anywhere even if it were actually in production.
 
Beau said:
No I just showered, and then reserved several special moments appreciating the dimensions and topography of my man bag.

Now, I must admit, this will surely be a part pf my daily regimen from this day forth.
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Damn, its almost six hours later and I simply cannot stop staring at my unit. This looking at your nuts thing is sort of addicting (no pun intended). I think I finally understand what motivated Anthony Weiner. Now I suppose I'll need to find some sort of "stop looking at your bag" 12 Step program.
 
Beau said:
Damn, its almost six hours later and I simply cannot stop staring at my unit. This looking at your nuts thing is sort of addicting (no pun intended). I think I finally understand what motivated Anthony Weiner. Now I suppose I'll need to find some sort of "stop looking at your bag" 12 Step program.
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All i can say is "welcome to our club" :D
 
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