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Pure PF3: Patent Pending Pharma Protein - Loggers Needed

thescience said:
any IGg that is absorbed into the bloodstream is absorbed as aminos.

the idea you mention about replacing all protein with alittle pf3 is one that is rolling around, and i will be listening for how that goes for some people i know who are doing just that, but i am not bold enough to give up my protein powder; rather, im looking for a combined benefit. my statement addressed only the point that there is protein in IGg and in addition to that in PF3, thus should someone take it alone with no other protein or meal, they would still be ingesting strong, undenatured protein
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Muscle consists mainly of specific aminos. Aminos are obviously not one homogenous thing as you know.

Anyhoot, would be interested to see what people's findings are with replacing a few servings of protein with PF3. Would like to see roughly how much of ones protein macros one could cut out, particularly on a cut, and see the amount of lean mass loss in that situation. I don't think for maintenance or bulking that it would make sense to replace protein servings with PF3 since in those scenarios, have sufficient calories is the goal.
 
kissdadookie said:
Muscle consists mainly of specific aminos. Aminos are obviously not one homogenous thing as you know.

Anyhoot, would be interested to see what people's findings are with replacing a few servings of protein with PF3. Would like to see roughly how much of ones protein macros one could cut out, particularly on a cut, and see the amount of lean mass loss in that situation. I don't think for maintenance or bulking that it would make sense to replace protein servings with PF3 since in those scenarios, have sufficient calories is the goal.
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I plan on just meeting my current macros during my log. I probably use less protein than the average logger on here, only getting ~.82g/lb. of BW.

I currently get about 180g of Protein, and I will be attempting to get all of that from either PF3 or food. I'm really excited to see what happens.

I'm most likely the oldest logger of the group as well, so I really want to see how recovery goes. I just started a 5/3/1 template that is high volume (the Bodybuilder one), and am certainly feeling the DOMS at times, since I am now working out 4 times per week as opposed to three.
 
Misfit28 said:
I plan on just meeting my current macros during my log. I probably use less protein than the average logger on here, only getting ~.82g/lb. of BW.

I currently get about 180g of Protein, and I will be attempting to get all of that from either PF3 or food. I'm really excited to see what happens.
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So are you maintaining or cutting? If you are only just meeting current macro needs (maintenance) but replacing some of the protein with PF3, what are you going to be doing to counter the caloric deficit? Looking forward to your log as well as other logs whilst I patiently await for NP to get the product in stock ;)
 
kissdadookie said:
So are you maintaining or cutting? If you are only just meeting current macro needs (maintenance) but replacing some of the protein with PF3, what are you going to be doing to counter the caloric deficit? Looking forward to your log as well as other logs whilst I patiently await for NP to get the product in stock ;)
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I keep extremely detailed caloric intakes, and have kept very close to the same intake now since July 2 to current. In that time, I have actually gained about 2 pounds, most that I believe in the form of muscle. My weight went from 218.6 at ~20.7% BF on July 3, 2013 to yesterday's reading of 220.2 at ~19.8% BF. That is on an average weekly intake of ~3,500 calories. My current macros are 180g P, 100g F, 495g of CHO.

My method of BF% testing isn't foolproof, and had a high error rate (infrared bicep sensor). However, I have taken consistent readings with the same machine for almost three years now :)

As far as the caloric deficit, I don't expect there to be a lot. As you can see, the PF3 label gives a caloric value of 10 calories per scoop, which is consistent with 2.5g of Protein. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
 
Misfit28 said:
I keep extremely detailed caloric intakes, and have kept very close to the same intake now since July 2 to current. In that time, I have actually gained about 2 pounds, most that I believe in the form of muscle. My weight went from 218.6 at ~20.7% BF on July 3, 2013 to yesterday's reading of 220.2 at ~19.8% BF. That is on an average weekly intake of ~3,500 calories. My current macros are 180g P, 100g F, 495g of CHO.

My method of BF% testing isn't foolproof, and had a high error rate (infrared bicep sensor). However, I have taken consistent readings with the same machine for almost three years now :)

As far as the caloric deficit, I don't expect there to be a lot. As you can see, the PF3 label gives a caloric value of 10 calories per scoop, which is consistent with 2.5g of Protein. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
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Understandable that you see the 10 calories per scoop of PF3, but let's say that you replaced 50 grams of protein with 2 servings of PF3 for example, that ends up being -180 calories (4 calories per gram of protein, 50 x's 4 ='s 200 - 20 from two scoops of PF3 ends up being a deficit of 180 calories from what you would normally have been taking). There is a large caloric deficit if you are replacing actual protein macros with PF3. You can PM me about this BTW, so that we don't clutter up this thread :P
 
kissdadookie said:
Understandable that you see the 10 calories per scoop of PF3, but let's say that you replaced 50 grams of protein with 2 servings of PF3 for example, that ends up being -180 calories (4 calories per gram of protein, 50 x's 4 ='s 200 - 20 from two scoops of PF3 ends up being a deficit of 180 calories from what you would normally have been taking). There is a large caloric deficit if you are replacing actual protein macros with PF3. You can PM me about this BTW, so that we don't clutter up this thread :P
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or feel free to use the thread. i dont consider any of this clutter; im very interested in what misfit is up to
 
Talk it up in here about your goals, training, nutrition etc. See what the other loggers are up to.
 
kissdadookie said:
Understandable that you see the 10 calories per scoop of PF3, but let's say that you replaced 50 grams of protein with 2 servings of PF3 for example, that ends up being -180 calories (4 calories per gram of protein, 50 x's 4 ='s 200 - 20 from two scoops of PF3 ends up being a deficit of 180 calories from what you would normally have been taking). There is a large caloric deficit if you are replacing actual protein macros with PF3. You can PM me about this BTW, so that we don't clutter up this thread :P
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This is the way I see it:

I will basically be using PF3 to replace a small amount of my protein. For instance, if I only use two scoops per day it would equate to 5g of Protein. So, I would use two scoops of PF3 and the other 175g of Protein would come from food.

Would it make sense to use it this way?
 
Misfit28 said:
This is the way I see it:

I will basically be using PF3 to replace a small amount of my protein. For instance, if I only use two scoops per day it would equate to 5g of Protein. So, I would use two scoops of PF3 and the other 175g of Protein would come from food.

Would it make sense to use it this way?
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GOTCHA, if that's the way you are replacing your protein, I would personally not bother to count that 5 grams. I would take it in addition to the normal macros for the day. 5 grams is roughly 20 calories, not significant, nor is 5 grams of protein a very significant amount to worry about. So taking in 175 grams of normal protein vs 180 grams of normal protein, really up to you and comes down to convenience really.

When I hear PF3 replacing protein, I'm thinking along the lines of let's say, replacing 1 scoop of protein powder with 1 scoop of PF3. So in my instance, I usually double scoop for my shakes, so if I was to replace a scoop of protein with PF3, I would then just use 1 scoop of protein powder with 1 scoop of PF3. You can see how calories would come into play here since you would be also effectively cutting a good amount of calories in such a scenario (thus my mention that I don't really see how one would replace their protein macros with PF3 unless they are cutting).
 
kissdadookie said:
GOTCHA, if that's the way you are replacing your protein, I would personally not bother to count that 5 grams. I would take it in addition to the normal macros for the day. 5 grams is roughly 20 calories, not significant, nor is 5 grams of protein a very significant amount to worry about. So taking in 175 grams of normal protein vs 180 grams of normal protein, really up to you and comes down to convenience really.

When I hear PF3 replacing protein, I'm thinking along the lines of let's say, replacing 1 scoop of protein powder with 1 scoop of PF3. So in my instance, I usually double scoop for my shakes, so if I was to replace a scoop of protein with PF3, I would then just use 1 scoop of protein powder with 1 scoop of PF3. You can see how calories would come into play here since you would be also effectively cutting a good amount of calories in such a scenario (thus my mention that I don't really see how one would replace their protein macros with PF3 unless they are cutting).
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I see what you were thinking now :)

My rationale is that it keeps my conditions (i.e. intake) the same except for the substitution of the PF3 for 5 grams of my protein. I actually don't use much protein powder as it is right now, so this should be interesting. I get a wide variety of proteins: fish, chicken, pork, beef, dairy, nuts. etc.

However, it might defeat the goal of protein powder replacement. I have used a mass gainer recently, and was about to get a powder until this came up. The most I use of protein powder is 1-2 scoops per day anyway.
 
Misfit28 said:
I see what you were thinking now :)

My rationale is that it keeps my conditions (i.e. intake) the same except for the substitution of the PF3 for 5 grams of my protein. I actually don't use much protein powder as it is right now, so this should be interesting. I get a wide variety of proteins: fish, chicken, pork, beef, dairy, nuts. etc.
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Yeah, protein powder is just powdered food IMHO :P If you don't use protein powders, I'm guessing taking your PF3 dose with your meals works perfectly fine as well.
 
1 scoop of PF3 = 25 scoops of protein in biological value. This is what we're focusing on more than specific macros or calories.
 
Do what you have to do to meet your macros; we'll help you use more of what SHOULD be in protein but often gets discarded in the manufacturing process.
 
Piston Honda said:
1 scoop of PF3 = 25 scoops of protein in biological value. This is what we're focusing on more than specific macros or calories.
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Understood. From what I understand of it, the importance of constituents which makes up the BV is for signaling protein synthesis. So, it would be interesting to see if there is little to no fall off if one used PF3 in conjunction with lowering their protein macros intake since in theory, stronger signaling for protein synthesis should leads to better absorption and use of the protein macros one takes in. So where this would come into play nicely would be if one was to be cutting.
 
And in other news, I can't wait until i get a new phone with an unbroken screen so I can actually type without making mistakes and having to go back and edit.
 
Piston Honda said:
Do what you have to do to meet your macros; we'll help you use more of what SHOULD be in protein but often gets discarded in the manufacturing process.
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Cool. I have hard time getting protein in morning while at work, so some days I use 2 scoops protein. Sometimes I may make some protein ice cream as well lol.
 
Piston Honda said:
1 scoop of PF3 = 25 scoops of protein in biological value. This is what we're focusing on more than specific macros or calories.
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Hmm. Maybe I should re-think my strategy?

I want to do what would be most likely to show the true effect of the product.
 
kissdadookie said:
Understood. From what I understand of it, the importance of constituents which makes up the BV is for signaling protein synthesis. So, it would be interesting to see if there is little to no fall off if one used PF3 in conjunction with lowering their protein macros intake since in theory, stronger signaling for protein synthesis should leads to better absorption and use of the protein macros one takes in. So where this would come into play nicely would be if one was to be cutting.
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Very interesting. I have been considering cutting again now that I have some decent LBM back, but didn't want to throw a confounding variable into the mix.
 
Misfit28 said:
Hmm. Maybe I should re-think my strategy?

I want to do what would be most likely to show the true effect of the product.
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If you recover better with than without it, that would be the most obvious indicator that the stuff works. Recovery is probably the first thing that becomes evident if the product is effective. The way you are going to dose it sounds fine.
 
kissdadookie said:
If you recover better with than without it, that would be the most obvious indicator that the stuff works. Recovery is probably the first thing that becomes evident if the product is effective. The way you are going to dose it sounds fine.
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Awesome :) I've been getting some wicked DOMS lately from all the volume I'm doing now. I don't expect that to change before I start PF3 ;)
 
I am kinda of thinking about completely changin things up.... I've been working on with my hybrid 5x5 workout as noted in my log for nolvadren. I am thinking I completely changing it up and allowing the followers to change my workout and or diet. The reason: because I enjoy pushing my body to limits that it hasn't found yet and I truly have faith that MAN has a game changer supp here. I love the workout I'm doing an am seeing steady results. Would only switch it up if people( my AM family) can give something great to replace.

Here's the kicker... I am considering competing in the World Firefighter Games in LA. It's an Olympic style event. There are a bunch of events that I've thought of but the 3 main ones 1- triathlon, 2- some kind of track event, or beach volley ball ( although I don't have a team mate) They do have bodybuilding and ultimate firefighter ( basically toughest man kinda thing). Not sure yet. The dates are 8-15-2014 to 8-25-2014.
 
Piston Honda said:
Do what you have to do to meet your macros; we'll help you use more of what SHOULD be in protein but often gets discarded in the manufacturing process.
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so would the use of excess protein supplements skew the results any adversely or would they help seeing that PF3 helps to use the protein better? just trying to get a handle on how it should be used to judge the results correctly.
 
chefbo said:
so would the use of excess protein supplements skew the results any adversely or would they help seeing that PF3 helps to use the protein better? just trying to get a handle on how it should be used to judge the results correctly.
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Do what you normally do, just add the PF3 and tell us what you notice, feel, etc. Do your typical workouts and routines and see if PF3 makes some sort of noticeable contribution. If I get word that there's a specific protocol for you all to follow I'll pass it along.
 
chefbo said:
so would the use of excess protein supplements skew the results any adversely or would they help seeing that PF3 helps to use the protein better? just trying to get a handle on how it should be used to judge the results correctly.
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I like this question. I have come to the conclusion that PF3 is like putting premium gas in your car instead of regular. You get more out of it, purer, and farts do smell as bad (or do they? Protein farts stink so bad).
 
Budman7811 said:
I like this question. I have come to the conclusion that PF3 is like putting premium gas in your car instead of regular. You get more out of it, purer, and farts do smell as bad (or do they? Protein farts stink so bad).
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Protein farts are absolutely horrible.
 
PeptoPro®: What is it?

PeptoPro® is unique in being a pre-digested milk protein, derived from casein, which is neutral in taste. The secret lies in a patent-protected enzyme that reduces the typical bitter taste at the same time as generating tiny protein fragments (so-called peptides) that are rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream and so fuel and protect the muscles.

PeptoPro® is a groundbreaking all-natural product developed by DSM scientists. It is widely known that amino acids, the building blocks of proteins, are crucial for muscle function. But consuming intact proteins, means these amino acids first need to be liberated by gastro-intestinal digestion and this costs precious time and energy.

PeptoPro® is comprised of small pieces of protein called peptides - mainly di- and tripeptides. It has two key advantages. First, PeptoPro® amino acids are quickly taken up by the body and delivered to the muscles just when they are needed most - during and directly after physical activity. Second, compared to intact protein and other hydrolysates, PeptoPro® has better taste and texture properties. PeptoPro® is easily dissolved in water, producing a clear solution, making it a thirst-quenching and palatable and a great asset for sports drinks. Numerous athletes have volunteered their testimonials to the effectiveness of PeptoPro®.
 
Budman7811 said:
I like this question. I have come to the conclusion that PF3 is like putting premium gas in your car instead of regular. You get more out of it, purer, and farts do smell as bad (or do they? Protein farts stink so bad).
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Kind of but not really? PF3 is like having more cylinders in the engine thus the engine can do more with what it has? That's the idea I'm getting.

The gas comparison would be like whey concentrate vs isolate, etc. :P
 
Amino acids can be linked together. Two linked amino acids are called a dipeptide, three linked amino acids are called a tripeptide, four a tetrapeptide, etc. A chain of many linked amino acids is a polypeptide, often simply called "protein".

Normal healthy people are unable to absorb intact protein. Only free amino acids, di- and tripeptides can be absorbed by the body. This is because our intestinal cells contain 'transporters' that can only transport free amino acids, di- and tripeptides. So only small peptides can be absorbed by the gut and subsequently conveyed to the bloodstream. This is why digestive enzymes in the stomach and intestine need to degrade protein to free amino acids and very small peptides as only these can be absorbed. Digestion takes time, however, as enzymes have to degrade protein and it requires energy for enzyme production. But PeptoPro® already consists of di- and tri peptides and so can be aborbed and reach the bloodstream quickly and easily.
 
So how does this compare?

I'm ignoring all the pros an negative talk, and will ultimately focus on using the protein, and posting my experience.

But curious, as I actually like an prefer hydrolyzed protein
 
kissdadookie said:
PF3 doesn't replace your protein macros whilst Peptopro can. So, apples and oranges?
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What? That doesn't make sense.

Please explain.

I don't supplement with peptopro to supplement my food protein.
That would be really expensive at 30$ a pound.
I use it for post workout only
 
J-Bry, if I'm understanding that correctly (and its been a looooong day, had a health scare w my aunt today), Peptopro is kind of an intermediary step of making protein more easily digestible by way of the peptides? Not sure how that has to do with the growth factors/biological value that the PF3 has. Whether it's protein or the peptides/aminos from a scoop of protein, it still wouldn't have the biological value of a scoop of PF3.

My head hurts
 
peptopro is an extremely hydrolzyed casein protein predominantly full of hydrolyzed protein. pf3 is a complex extract predominantly full of growth factors, peptide protein fractions, IGg, IGF-1, TGBF-!, albumin, transferrin, lactoferrin, ect. theyre very different
 
Piston Honda said:
J-Bry, if I'm understanding that correctly (and its been a looooong day, had a health scare w my aunt today), Peptopro is kind of an intermediary step of making protein more easily digestible by way of the peptides? Not sure how that has to do with the growth factors/biological value that the PF3 has. Whether it's protein or the peptides/aminos from a scoop of protein, it still wouldn't have the biological value of a scoop of PF3.

My head hurts
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Sorry to hear about your stress.... Hopefully things workout. Take some PF3 and go to bed.
 
jbryand101b said:
What? That doesn't make sense.

Please explain.

I don't supplement with peptopro to supplement my food protein.
That would be really expensive at 30$ a pound.
I use it for post workout only
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If you look at the two products from a nutritional POV, PF3 is like a micronutrient whilst Peptopro is like a macronutrient.

The write up for Peptopro mentions the di and tri peptides in order to point out the fact that it is essentially like a normal protein except broken down to such small fragments that when ingested, it will require very little digestion thus absorption becomes instantized (for a lack of a better word). It's basically the fastest absorbing protein on the market. PF3 isn't really a protein in the normal sense, it's the microfractions of protein (it's not the typical EAAs and BCAAs).
 
kissdadookie said:
If you look at the two products from a nutritional POV, PF3 is like a micronutrient whilst Peptopro is like a macronutrient.

The write up for Peptopro mentions the di and tri peptides in order to point out the fact that it is essentially like a normal protein except broken down to such small fragments that when ingested, it will require very little digestion thus absorption becomes instantized (for a lack of a better word). It's basically the fastest absorbing protein on the market. PF3 isn't really a protein in the normal sense, it's the microfractions of protein (it's not the typical EAAs and BCAAs).
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You've lost me here, its not broken down peptides, but is microfraction proteins, but different than amino acids.
 
jbryand101b said:
You've lost me here, its not broken down peptides, but is microfraction proteins, but different than amino acids.
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I didn't say broken down peptides. I said the protein is broken down into peptides. Namely di and tri peptides. This essentially allows Peptopro to bypass digestion but it's still protein in the typical macro nutrients sense. I clearly differentiated Peptopro from PF3 for you, I don't know where the confusion lies here.

When you break down let's say whey or casein or any other protein for protein supplements, you filter out the things like fats, ash, etc. You break it down even further so that the protein can bypass much of the digestive process, this strips the protein of it's microfractions. The more you filter down the protein to smaller pieces, you start losing more of the microfractions or what PF3 points out, BV.

The concepts here are not that difficult to understand, however, the controversy is that for many, the bio-availability of orally ingesting these microfractions is kind of up in the air since studies are not really available to demonstrate efficacy through oral consumption and the fact that such products being sold is pretty new in the sports supplementation market. Prior to this, people were downing colostrum but the problem with colostrum is that the microfractions in colostrum powder whilst considerably higher than typical protein powder, is still in very low amounts. So most studies with colostrum has people consuming a pretty ridiculous amount of the stuff for it to have any effect however slight it may have been, which is both impractical and not financially viable.
 
kissdadookie said:
I didn't say broken down peptides. I said the protein is broken down into peptides. Namely di and tri peptides. This essentially allows Peptopro to bypass digestion but it's still protein in the typical macro nutrients sense. I clearly differentiated Peptopro from PF3 for you, I don't know where the confusion lies here.

When you break down let's say whey or casein or any other protein for protein supplements, you filter out the things like fats, ash, etc. You break it down even further so that the protein can bypass much of the digestive process, this strips the protein of it's microfractions. The more you filter down the protein to smaller pieces, you start losing more of the microfractions or what PF3 points out, BV.

The concepts here are not that difficult to understand, however, the controversy is that for many, the bio-availability of orally ingesting these microfractions is kind of up in the air since studies are not really available to demonstrate efficacy through oral consumption and the fact that such products being sold is pretty new in the sports supplementation market. Prior to this, people were downing colostrum but the problem with colostrum is that the microfractions in colostrum powder whilst considerably higher than typical protein powder, is still in very low amounts. So most studies with colostrum has people consuming a pretty ridiculous amount of the stuff for it to have any effect however slight it may have been, which is both impractical and not financially viable.
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Still not making sense. You sure your not high?
 
jbryand101b said:
Still not making sense. You sure your not high?
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What part is not making sense to you? The part that Peptopro is essentially a product which has the protein broken down to the smallest chains of peptide bonded aminos? Or the part that proteins consists of the typical peptide bonded aminos as well as microfractions (such as the growth factors)?

You sure you're not high or something because it certainly would appear so.

jbryand101b said:
If you take a bunch of peptides(protein), break them down, you now have broken down peptides.
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Here's the problem, I never stated broken down peptides. What I stated and what you replied to was the following, word for word from my post:

The write up for Peptopro mentions the di and tri peptides in order to point out the fact that it is essentially like a normal protein except broken down to such small fragments that when ingested, it will require very little digestion thus absorption becomes instantized (for a lack of a better word). It's basically the fastest absorbing protein on the market.

Where in that text do you see me saying that we are dealing with broken down peptides for Peptopro? You SURE you're not high? Or are you just trying to stir the pot just for the sake of stirring the pot?
 
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