ADRENAL EXHAUSTION?

[Jiigzz]

I agree with you. I'm certain I had lower levels of testosterone and T3 because of malnutrition. My only point really wasn't anything to do with stim tolerance, but about physiological changes caused by training hard, under-eating, not resting enough and the common set of symptoms these produce. I'm certain my adrenals hormones were constantly elevated because I felt constantly stimulated, almost like I had ephedrine when I hadn't taken any stims. I also had my blood sugar level checked and they were sky high even a several hours after a meal. Now this physological state prevailed for several weeks even after ceasing training, eating and resting. I take your point about using the incorrect term to describe a condition, but it is a particular condition that is brought about by specific circumstances.

Have you been tested for diabetes? Elevated blood glucose is a symptom.

 

[eluruguayo]

Powercage,

On the topic of caffeine tolerance, what's your experience with "cycling" stimulants? I.e., once the relevant adenosine receptors are upregulated (= you've achieved "caffeine dependency"), how much correlation will there be with tolerance for other stimulants, such as ephedrine, 1,3-dmaa, or synephrine?

I know that there are more formal units in which this could be measured, but let's just say a 0-10 scale, where...
0 = the receptors for each drug are completely independent; i.e., even if you are coked on 12 cups of coffee a day, a tiny dose of ephedra/dmaa/etc will get you just as "wired" as if you were a caffeine-free Mormon.
and...
10 = they all activate the same receptors, making them interchangeable—all the same tolerance, sorry Charlie, but you've just got to cut them all out for a while.

Any idea where each of those three stimulants would be on the scale of 0-10?

If any of them were close to 0, then withdrawing from caffeine would simply be a matter of switching to another stimulant. If they're all close to 10, then take a weekend in the woods, pull the shades, and sleep off those 3 days of headaches.

You seem to ... actually know what you're talking about, here, so your opinion is valuable here.

 

[Powercage]

Powercage,

On the topic of caffeine tolerance, what's your experience with "cycling" stimulants? I.e., once the relevant adenosine receptors are upregulated (= you've achieved "caffeine dependency"), how much correlation will there be with tolerance for other stimulants, such as ephedrine, 1,3-dmaa, or synephrine?

I know that there are more formal units in which this could be measured, but let's just say a 0-10 scale, where...
0 = the receptors for each drug are completely independent; i.e., even if you are coked on 12 cups of coffee a day, a tiny dose of ephedra/dmaa/etc will get you just as "wired" as if you were a caffeine-free Mormon.
and...
10 = they all activate the same receptors, making them interchangeable—all the same tolerance, sorry Charlie, but you've just got to cut them all out for a while.

Any idea where each of those three stimulants would be on the scale of 0-10?

If any of them were close to 0, then withdrawing from caffeine would simply be a matter of switching to another stimulant. If they're all close to 10, then take a weekend in the woods, pull the shades, and sleep off those 3 days of headaches.

You seem to ... actually know what you're talking about, here, so your opinion is valuable here.

At some point you are going to have to cycle off everything (most likely). But you are right, certain ingredients work in different manners so switching to another would potentially make you feel something again. Ill give two simple examples without getting super technical:


For instance DMAA is a reuptake inhibitor, whereas PEA displaces norepinephrine within the vesicles of the axon terminal.

So if you've taken PEA for a while and dont feel anything, you could switch to DMAA and still feel something. And actually caffeine may be exactly what you want to take to help get rid of some PEA tolerance (which is nice to know since PEA tolerance takes forever to reset).

When in doubt, cycle off everything.

 

[eluruguayo]

Thanks, PC. That agrees with my (highly anecdotal and poorly controlled) empirical evidence. (And, if more guys would apply your last sentence to relationship decisions... yeah.)

So one consequence, then, would be that SINGLE-stimulant supplements are, theoretically, better in the long run than combined/"stacked" supplements?
Say, a pure 1,3-dmaa pill (like SNS AdrenaG), or a pure ephedrine sulfate pill (Bronkaid). As opposed to 99% of the stims out there, which are just a giant minestrone of everything, especially the caffeine.

Let me know what you think of that idea. If that's a thing, then that's theoretically revolutionary—an enterprising fellow could probably make millions, and help a lot of people reverse tolerances along the way, by selling a specific sequence of stim's as a cycle. Say 4-6 week pyramid of PEA, 6-8 week pyramid of caffeine, and 4-6 week pyramid of synephrine or dmaa.
Hmm. Possible public service + business opportunity here? Let me know what you think.

Thanks for your time, by the way—as a doctor who also works out, I bet you don't have a lot of it to spare.

 

[ryane87]

I am a doctor.

That's great. haha