It's done, just did first injection of 250mg test cyp.

chris223 said:
If OP is burning through calories like there's no tomorrow, then there's no reason for him not to throw in some junk food like Nutella. Sugary foods shouldn't be a staple but he certainly doesn't need to avoid them, and the great thing about Nutella is it has fat. I'd leave out the Nilla wafers, but when bulking I do enjoy some Nutella spread on an Ezekiel English muffin a few times a week; breaks up the monotony of meat and eggs and rice. My wife also makes pancakes with Nutella and they're ****ing awesome, but that's a cheat meal for me. As long as his protein intake is where it needs to be, he can do what he needs to do to push his calorie threshold.
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He is going to be much better off adding carbs to his diet than that sugary crap. His diet is extremely low on carbs based on his post and that is where he is going to find his easiest weight gaining calories.
 
R1187 said:
Actually I don't go crazy with isolation exercises, maybe bicep curls, but that's about it.

Chest day is always heavy bench and incline work, back day is VERY heavy deadlifts. I also do military press for shoulders.

I like the idea of a second leg day.

Oh I just like the burn in my forearms, can't explain it.
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I ninja edited my post because I realized I made assumptions that I shouldn't have and you caught it. LOL
 
kisaj said:
Breakdown what you are doing for leg, back, and chest work. Also, it wouldn't hurt to add a second leg day and combine chest and shoulder work. Also, forearm day? LOL
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No, there's no "forearm day", I said I do them when I do shoulders.

Monday: Standing military press 4 x 8, seated dumbell press 4 x 8, lateral raises 4 x 12, and yes wrist curls

Wednesday: Flat bench 4 x 8, incline bench 4 x 8, incline dumbell press 4 x 8, flys 4 x 12

Friday: Deadlift 4 x 6, pullups 4 x 10, bent over rows 4 x 10, any variation of biceps curls...

Sunday: Squat 10 sets x 6, extensions 3 x 10, lunges 4 x 10. Don't train calves or hamstrings even though I should.
 
Going back to the diet, you really don't look like you have the carb load you should for gaining weight. I'm currently on a bulk with the usual 40/30/30 carb/protein/fat plan and usually pack on about 5-6lbs a month and I'm not on any cycle. I have a lot of the guys I train with do the same and they never have an issue putting the weight on. Then to maintain, I cut the carbs and up the fats.

There are two guys that just have a sky high metabolism and they have upped to a 50/30/20 to get the weight on.
 
kisaj said:
He is going to be much better off adding carbs to his diet than that sugary crap. His diet is extremely low on carbs based on his post and that is where he is going to find his easiest weight gaining calories.
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It's not "extremely low". It's close to 300g from oats and bread, and probabaly nearing 500g if you include lactose and sugar.
 
kisaj said:
Going back to the diet, you really don't look like you have the carb load you should for gaining weight. I'm currently on a bulk with the usual 40/30/30 carb/protein/fat plan and usually pack on about 5-6lbs a month and I'm not on any cycle. I have a lot of the guys I train with do the same and they never have an issue putting the weight on. Then to maintain, I cut the carbs and up the fats.

There are two guys that just have a sky high metabolism and they have upped to a 50/30/20 to get the weight on.
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I've never paid attention to ratios.

Perhaps it's part of my problem, perhaps not.

You raise some good points, and I'll look into making adjustments.
 
R1187 said:
It's not "extremely low". It's close to 300g from oats and bread, and probabaly nearing 500g if you include lactose and sugar.
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I was going off what you posted and it looked like you had very little in carbs, but quite high in protein and good fats.

I'm at a loss, brotha. If you are already getting 300-500 grams of calories in carbs, then that should be plenty. Everything I have known to work for the last 20+ years is not working for you.

Maybe you do need to eat nilla wafers. haha
 
kisaj said:
I was going off what you posted and it looked like you had very little in carbs, but quite high in protein and good fats.

I'm at a loss, brotha. If you are already getting 300-500 grams of calories in carbs, then that should be plenty. Everything I have known to work for the last 20+ years is not working for you.

Maybe you do need to eat nilla wafers. haha
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I know it's strange.

Then again I know my body is strange considering how much I can eat and not gain.

It also explains why my strenght and endurance is through the roof on test, but with little weight gain.

I really looking forward to Deca or Tren, though I know diet is still a top priority with or without gear.
 
Bro not trying to sound like a dick but without weighing food and tracking your calories you don't really know what your consuming. going of the packet is far from accurate. 5000 calories is a lot and a 240lb bodybuilder would gain off that amount of food. I don't think your being honest with yourself or us about the amount of food you eat.
 
R1187 said:
No, there's no "forearm day", I said I do them when I do shoulders.

Monday: Standing military press 4 x 8, seated dumbell press 4 x 8, lateral raises 4 x 12, and yes wrist curls

Wednesday: Flat bench 4 x 8, incline bench 4 x 8, incline dumbell press 4 x 8, flys 4 x 12

Friday: Deadlift 4 x 6, pullups 4 x 10, bent over rows 4 x 10, any variation of biceps curls...

Sunday: Squat 10 sets x 6, extensions 3 x 10, lunges 4 x 10. Don't train calves or hamstrings even though I should.
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I don't care what people say you don't need a God damn forearm day they get worked hard enough on biceps day
 
JD261985 said:
I don't care what people say you don't need a God damn forearm day they get worked hard enough on biceps day
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Two things. If you deadlift heavy enough and work on grip they will grow. If yiu want to work them out extra get some Fat Gripz and you can work them out any time you touch a barbell. Would never even work them out on their own unless maybe Bb'n.
 
Why is everyone commenting on forearms? It's just wrist curls, really quick exercise to do and it's not gonna hurt him.

Secondly I think a second leg day sounds kind of extreme. I know I hit legs hard enough each week that they are sore all week. But also I do 4-6 reps heavy for most exercises, and sometimes on the big 3 I'll even do 1-3 rep heavy sets so it's pretty taxing. Not to mention that you hit hams pretty hard when you deadlift, and quads a little as well. Throw in cleans on shoulder day and there's all the extra legwork you should need.
 
Lukef2000 said:
Bro not trying to sound like a dick but without weighing food and tracking your calories you don't really know what your consuming. going of the packet is far from accurate. 5000 calories is a lot and a 240lb bodybuilder would gain off that amount of food. I don't think your being honest with yourself or us about the amount of food you eat.
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I could see weighing meat, but you're telling me an egg is not 70 calories?

A cup of oats is not 300 calories?

32oz of whole milk is not 600 calories?

Sorry I disagree that food has to be weighed to get a very accurate calorie number.
 
R1187 said:
I could see weighing meat, but you're telling me an egg is not 70 calories?

A cup of oats is not 300 calories?

32oz of whole milk is not 600 calories?

Sorry I disagree that food has to be weighed to get a very accurate calorie number.
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I fully agree
 
R1187 said:
I'm sure it's the most accurate method, but I bet you could get within a couple hundred calories just going off the labels.
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Yeah the basics don't change but all meats etc etc. All in all myfitnesspal is so basic to use and will give you a much better idea of where your at. How much is 8oz of chicken breast opposed to rib fillet steak? Or turkey breast? How much fat is in each? Does the packet tell you that??
 
R1187 said:
I could see weighing meat, but you're telling me an egg is not 70 calories?

A cup of oats is not 300 calories?

32oz of whole milk is not 600 calories?

Sorry I disagree that food has to be weighed to get a very accurate calorie number.
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Absolutely agree. You don't need to weigh food, and like mentioned by another poster, a great approach is to round down and assume you didn't get quite as much as you needed. If you have taken the time to research the macros in your diet and you are sticking with a fairly standard meal routine based on that research, you have a good idea of where you are.

If you know you are consuming 5k calories and it really isn't working for you for some reason, see if 6k makes a difference by pushing you over. You would be one of the only people I know that didn't gain on 5k, but you are this far and it wouldn't hurt to try. Throw in an extra shake and you have your 1k down in about 5 min.

2 1/2 cup milk (whole or 2%)- 375 cal
2 scoop protein- approx 300 cal
2 greek yogurt (vanilla is good)- 240 cal
1 tbsp pb 120 cal

1035 cal, about 100gr protein, 35g fat

I'd be substituting some of the protein and fats in my earlier meals with pastas and whole grains to get in the additional carbs.

As far as the comment by another poster about a second leg day being "extreme"- that is a ridiculous notion. There is nothing extreme about a second leg day per week and it a proven method of increasing the rate of adding mass. The idea is to have a heavy day in the low range to build power and strength and a higher rep day to concentrate on size. Plus, it has the added benefit of boosting his appetite if he is truly going to be upping his caloric intake.

Again, this is all taking the assumption that his diet is honest, which we need to take his word on.
 
sounds like you got everything in check man. everyone is different.. on 5000 cals id def be gaining weight but if i were on gear as well id hope that id be gaining purely muscle and losing body fat...

have you atleast noticed your bodyfat dropping while maintaining your current weight?
 
Lukef2000 said:
Yeah the basics don't change but all meats etc etc. All in all myfitnesspal is so basic to use and will give you a much better idea of where your at. How much is 8oz of chicken breast opposed to rib fillet steak? Or turkey breast? How much fat is in each? Does the packet tell you that??
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Actually it does. All the meat sold in grocery stores(at least in the US and UK, can't speak for other countries) has a weight on the package. So if I buy a 3 pack of pork chops for instance and it says 1.6lbs lets say, I would divide that by 3 which would give me .53lbs which is 8oz of meat per pork chop about(rounded down). This isn't 100% accurate but it should get you close enough most of the time, especially if you are rounding down.
 
I am a big PH user and ran several cycles of Superdrol. Knowing it was highly liver toxic I kind of backed off. But I can still get ahold of that and not actual test. Is it even really worth running at that point?
 
ExerciseorDie said:
I am a big PH user and ran several cycles of Superdrol. Knowing it was highly liver toxic I kind of backed off. But I can still get ahold of that and not actual test. Is it even really worth running at that point?
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I would rather run other compounds at this point but I bought a lot of SD right when it went out of stock for about 8 bucks a bottle so I have a crap ton. Might as well use that since it's on hand. If I didn't have it on hand I would probably try some Dbol over it, or Msten.
 
Well I dont have any on hand but can buy it at any time lol. I want to run legit test, but the one source I have seems to have really high prices. Not sure what the norm is for 20 ml though
 
ExerciseorDie said:
Well I dont have any on hand but can buy it at any time lol. I want to run legit test, but the one source I have seems to have really high prices. Not sure what the norm is for 20 ml though
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Through the source I use 20ml would be about 100$, but that's a good amount of test. I mean at 500mg a week and 250mg/ml that's 10 weeks of test about.
 
ExerciseorDie said:
My source said $180 and I have never ordered from him so I dont really know that quality.
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Probably higher quality since I use UGL. If it's pharma grade or was something I knew was really good I would pay that much but yeah if it was in any way questionable I think it would be hard to pay that much.
 
SuperPro said:
Probably higher quality since I use UGL. If it's pharma grade or was something I knew was really good I would pay that much but yeah if it was in any way questionable I think it would be hard to pay that much.
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Yea if it was pharmacy grade it would probably be worth it for sure, but I am not just going to take some guy's word for it lol. On the lookout for a new source now, we'll see how it goes.
 
Balls don't seem that much smaller, but I'm almost positive they aren't hanging as low.

I still haven't found a single negative remark on the web regarding my source, and there's no question I have increased endurance.

I really want to say it's legit test. It's a shame I can't get "walk-in" bloodwork in NY state.
 
If I don't gain on this diet, I guess it's time to see a doctor:

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About another 8 weeks on cycle, including ending with SD.

No I did not get bloodwork; I'm not driving to PA. Yes this may be reckless, but aside from the lack of weight gain, I feel fine and the workouts are great.
 
Lots of calories there, only thing I'd recommend is more protein. When I run a cycle I shoot for 350-400

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ExerciseorDie said:
Lots of calories there, only thing I'd recommend is more protein. When I run a cycle I shoot for 350-400

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Personally all that happens when I eat that much protein is I sh!t giant pale bricks, and I do mean giant. Very uncomfortable.
 
I don't think you need any more protein- there is plenty for muscle building in that plan and the level of carbs is right where you want for energy and weight gain.

That is a legit plan and I agree that if that doesn't work, then it's wtf time.
 
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