Good mornings vs SLDL
- Thread starter JoeySon
- Start date
jimbuick
Legend
Good mornings are more similar to an RDL than an SLDL.
They are similar but the way the weight is loaded (on back vs in front of body) makes a big difference.
I wouldn't say either is superior but that is just my personal opinion on this.
JoeySon
Banned
What kind of difference? I guess I should be more specific, they both work the same muscles? Will just one suffice or should I do both?
jimbuick
Legend
I would alternate between the two.
The both work the posterior chain but the load placement being different changes the way the muscles fire (IME)
I am not educated enough to go into human biomechanics of the movement and will defer this to someone of a greater education/experience Level.
OnionKnight
Well-known member
wheres Red when you need him
jimbuick
Legend
PaulBlack
Well-known member
IMO there is not one specifically that is better, maybe easier to learn or say better for someone who has little experience. WIth that said I might say the deads variation are perhaps safer. Some guys perhaps more squat dominant may find the GM better and a guy built for pulling may find an rdl or sldl more to his liking. It does not mean you cannot alternate or learn either, but I might find the GM is a bit more advanced and harder to learn to do effectively for some and it seems larger waisted guys have more advantage too perhaps.
Personally I find the RDL quite good in working the hams and glutes as you do not rest the bar on the floor after each rep but keep constant tension on the muscles. That can be different in the sldl, which also utilizes more low back and bending some from the waist, also depending on how you perform them. Some feel too, there is a bit more control with a deadlift, having the bar in the hands.
The GM with weight on shoulders can IMO be a bit more advanced if done right, since you are not holding onto the bar and cannot just drop it if you run into trouble. Also should always be done in a rack with spotters and or pins set for a catch. The GM also puts more pressure on the abs so as to keep stable when dipping forward, raises blood pressure in the head more and makes the lever arm from hips to weight longer as you bend over, so more static strength or arch (if you are doing arch back GM's) has to be considered.
There can be a few differing ways to do the GM also, by sliding the butt back and stretching out the hams & glutes, then tensing/shortening them to upright the torso. I have also done a more bend at the waist type where the low back gets more involvement. Again there a re a few ways to do GM's and deads to elicit cdertain parts of the posterior chain.
A deadlift also involves scapular retraction of the shoulders so the weight moves or swings ever so slightly being held in the hands, which does not come into play in the GM. The weight stays in one place on the shoulders.
Personally, if I was new at either of these, I would do the deads (which is really how I started and I am more pull oriented) until I built some lower back, ab, ham & glute strength and then if one feels the GM needs to be done or tried, add it in "slowly and or with light weights" getting used to the ROM and cementing the form down before doing it. Don't do it because you see pics/vids of big PL'ers working it and it looks cool or is a fad blowing thru your gym.
Lastly and to add, if you are not real experienced with knowing the difference between bending at the waist and bending at the hips, it may be a good thing to take a little time and feel the differences without any weights at all.
You can see how stretching the hams and glutes by moving the butt back while keeping the low back flat and static is different than moving from the waist and using the low back to aid in the uprighting of the torso.
Personally I find the RDL quite good in working the hams and glutes as you do not rest the bar on the floor after each rep but keep constant tension on the muscles. That can be different in the sldl, which also utilizes more low back and bending some from the waist, also depending on how you perform them. Some feel too, there is a bit more control with a deadlift, having the bar in the hands.
The GM with weight on shoulders can IMO be a bit more advanced if done right, since you are not holding onto the bar and cannot just drop it if you run into trouble. Also should always be done in a rack with spotters and or pins set for a catch. The GM also puts more pressure on the abs so as to keep stable when dipping forward, raises blood pressure in the head more and makes the lever arm from hips to weight longer as you bend over, so more static strength or arch (if you are doing arch back GM's) has to be considered.
There can be a few differing ways to do the GM also, by sliding the butt back and stretching out the hams & glutes, then tensing/shortening them to upright the torso. I have also done a more bend at the waist type where the low back gets more involvement. Again there a re a few ways to do GM's and deads to elicit cdertain parts of the posterior chain.
A deadlift also involves scapular retraction of the shoulders so the weight moves or swings ever so slightly being held in the hands, which does not come into play in the GM. The weight stays in one place on the shoulders.
Personally, if I was new at either of these, I would do the deads (which is really how I started and I am more pull oriented) until I built some lower back, ab, ham & glute strength and then if one feels the GM needs to be done or tried, add it in "slowly and or with light weights" getting used to the ROM and cementing the form down before doing it. Don't do it because you see pics/vids of big PL'ers working it and it looks cool or is a fad blowing thru your gym.
Lastly and to add, if you are not real experienced with knowing the difference between bending at the waist and bending at the hips, it may be a good thing to take a little time and feel the differences without any weights at all.
You can see how stretching the hams and glutes by moving the butt back while keeping the low back flat and static is different than moving from the waist and using the low back to aid in the uprighting of the torso.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
For strength purposes, the good morning is going to be the superior movement (especially a suspended one) since it'll have greater carryover to both the squat and deadlift. Also, minor tweaks in the stance and bar placement shift emphasis and allow for better variety than a SLDL. They are similar in terms of movement pattern, but it is the bar placement on the back that makes it more difficult. It's pretty common to see someone popping out sets of 225lbs on SLDL, but pretty uncommon to see the same weight for a GM.
Mr.Sinister
Well-known member
I use both. 3 weeks GM, 3 weeks SLDL, 3 weeks weighted 45 Hypers, repeat. I'm hoping to replace the Hypers with stone lifting this summer. Rodja is corrects in patterns but I like the variety.
ZiR RED
Well-known member
SLDL as in straight leg deadlift or stiff leg deadlift? Stiff ok, straight not so much.
Both the GM and RDL are useful. The major issue I see with the RDL/SLDL is that people over estimate the ROM of their hamstrings. If you are keeping the pelvic tilted anteriorly (ie. back nice and arched) then most people exhuast hamstring ROM a few inches below the knee. Anything deeper than that becomes a series of spinal flexion.
Br
Both the GM and RDL are useful. The major issue I see with the RDL/SLDL is that people over estimate the ROM of their hamstrings. If you are keeping the pelvic tilted anteriorly (ie. back nice and arched) then most people exhuast hamstring ROM a few inches below the knee. Anything deeper than that becomes a series of spinal flexion.
Br
hvactech
Legend
so are you saying anything more than a few inches is not needed. ive been going a few inches off the floor while keeping a good, safe form
PaulBlack
Well-known member
Well you don't want to lock the knees in any deadlift movement. They should always have a slight or ever so slight bend, keeping the tension on the leg muscles and not closing or the knee joint.
And you are right in the RDL, as you do not need to over-stretch necessarily, but just extension and flexion of the hams. Most trainees can achieve good ham involvement with just below knees or mid shin whilst keeping the back straight. The key lies more in trying to focus uprighting the torso with shortening or contracting the hams and glutes. The glutes need also be mentioned since they are a pretty big factor in finishing lockouts in deads and squats.
ZiR RED
Well-known member
Without any weight, put your hands on your hips and keeping your back in lordosis (lumber and t-spine, chest up, etc.) bend over keeping knees unlocked. You will feel your pelvis rotating and the tension on the hams increasing. Note the point where the pelvic no longer rotates. Now reach down. This is as deep as you need to go. Any deeper and the movement will be accomplished via spinal flexion. You likely will not enter a state of kyphosis..or rounding bringing the weight to a few inches off the floor, but it those last few inches will be back flexion, not hip flexion.
Br