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Prohormone

DetroitHammer said:
You mean actually "covert" or act like Equip?
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For some reason I was under the impression through the enzyme process some prohormones will actually convert to an active steroid. But yes I guess act similar to Bold. I am trying to figure what I want to kick my test e cycle off with
 
RippedCity said:
For some reason I was under the impression through the enzyme process some prohormones will actually convert to an active steroid. But yes I guess act similar to Bold. I am trying to figure what I want to kick my test e cycle off with
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Ok, because a synthetic PH will not convert to synthetic steroid under any circumstance. But why kick it off with anything? It's totally unnecessary. In fact, I personally believe that if you're going to start off a cycle on something like Anadrol, it's a mistake. You get much better results if you use Anadrol after maybe 4 weeks, not starting on day one. If you start out with test, you'll be fine.
 
P-bold

P-bold by Taurus Nutrition supposedly converts to boldenone. There are definitely some prohormones that convert to active steroids. Some have steroidal activity before they convert as well as after. I dont know much about this product just know it exists. Good luck man.
 
soma said:
P-bold by Taurus Nutrition supposedly converts to boldenone. There are definitely some prohormones that convert to active steroids. Some have steroidal activity before they convert as well as after. I dont know much about this product just know it exists. Good luck man.
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Besides the hyped up claims by the manufacturer, which I find absurd, can you find one clinical study that supports this "conversion?" It's all smoky mirrors. They can claim anything they want, but who is going to take the time to perform a clinical study and prove that their claims are bogus?

Saying DHEA is a prohormone (for example) and it eventually converts to testosterone is a stretch, although in theory it should help the conversion to testosterone. DHEA is a natural endogenous steroid hormone, unlike Equip, and still, its benefits as a supplement are suspect. I can pull down advertisements that claim "Tren" is a legitimate OTC prohormone that does what Tren does, but as we all know, that's impossible. I believe they advertise in Flex.

Equip is a synthetically manufactured AAS that mimics the effects of testosterone and DHT in some ways. I would agree that a prohormone can produce some anabolic effects, but to claim you can mix a synthetic coc ktail inside your body is something I'm not convinced of. But given the nature of steroids and its classification by the government, it's easy to make false claims in advertising with impunity.
 
RippedCity said:
Hey guys are there any pro hormones that convert to EQ
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Invalid Link Removed (Now made by Androfactory thanks to the help of Taurus's formulator) is a bold pro hormone, could be worth a shot depending in your goals.

I ran Taurus's version with pretty solid results.
 
DetroitHammer said:
Ok, because a synthetic PH will not convert to synthetic steroid under any circumstance. But why kick it off with anything? It's totally unnecessary. In fact, I personally believe that if you're going to start off a cycle on something like Anadrol, it's a mistake. You get much better results if you use Anadrol after maybe 4 weeks, not starting on day one. If you start out with test, you'll be fine.
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You've been here awhile, why are you being so ignorant??

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vidapreta said:
You've been here awhile, why are you being so ignorant??

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Well, I could ask why you're being so gullible? When someone takes a PH and is tested positive for Equip, I'll believe it. Until then, I've been around long enough to know that the hype generated by a manufacturer and not supported by clinical fact is just that, hype. So tell me, what evidence do you have that such "conversion" takes place so I can be better educated? Aside from the advertisement.
 
DetroitHammer said:
Well, I could ask why you're being so gullible? When someone takes a PH and is tested positive for Equip, I'll believe it. Until then, I've been around long enough to know that the hype generated by a manufacturer and not supported by clinical fact is just that, hype. So tell me, what evidence do you have that such "conversion" takes place so I can be better educated? Aside from the advertisement.
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I think the "ignorant" statement he was referring to is the one where you said a kicker isnt really necessary or helpful. I may be wrong tho. I do agree on the equip debate, tho.
 
grandroid828 said:
I think the "ignorant" statement he was referring to is the one where you said a kicker isnt really necessary or helpful. I may be wrong tho. I do agree on the equip debate, tho.
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Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. Someone kicking a test e cycle is famous for a reason so I didn't see the point there. The test can take like 6 weeks to see results so that's why I was thinking about having a kicker. But the prohormone conversion is a legitimate debate.
 
grandroid828 said:
I think the "ignorant" statement he was referring to is the one where you said a kicker isnt really necessary or helpful. I may be wrong tho. I do agree on the equip debate, tho.
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Maybe, but that's why I said "personally" on that one. My rationale is this: A kicker is helpful, but not right away. I found that if I allow the test to gradually build up and my body adjusts to the new mass and strength, then start with Anadrol, then the Anadrol takes me way beyond what it would had I used it from the start. I let the test have had a chance to work then I kick it in high gear with the Anadrol. I think a lot of injuries happen if you load up too soon. But having said that, if you check on other sites, especially the pro sites, the fad of a kicker is fading. What used to be a given "fact" is now looked upon as a questionable practice. My experience has been that if I blast/cycle and compare my strength at week 10 to a kicker at the start and a kicker around week 5, my strength and efficiency is much better employing the latter. At least that's my experience, but to have a differing opinion based solely on the heard mentality to me, is true ignorance.
 
DetroitHammer said:
Maybe, but that's why I said "personally" on that one. My rationale is this: A kicker is helpful, but not right away. I found that if I allow the test to gradually build up and my body adjusts to the new mass and strength, then start with Anadrol, then the Anadrol takes me way beyond what it would had I used it from the start. I let the test have had a chance to work then I kick it in high gear with the Anadrol. I think a lot of injuries happen if you load up too soon. But having said that, if you check on other sites, especially the pro sites, the fad of a kicker is fading. What used to be a given "fact" is now looked upon as a questionable practice. My experience has been that if I blast/cycle and compare my strength at week 10 to a kicker at the start and a kicker around week 5, my strength and efficiency is much better employing the latter. At least that's my experience, but to have a differing opinion based solely on the heard mentality to me, is true ignorance.
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Agreed. For the record i wasnt agreeing or disagreeing with him or you lol just trying to clear things up :) definitely see your logic bro. Cant personally speak to it cuz i dont feel educated enough, so ill spare you the bro science lol.
 
DetroitHammer said:
Ok, because a synthetic PH will not convert to synthetic steroid under any circumstance. /QUOTE]
Wtf the definition of a prohormone
Is a precursor of a hormone, that is converted to an active hormone by peripheral metabolism.And they've been selling a lot of them for years now. My first was 1-ad by Ergopharm.
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vidapreta said:
Maybee not 100% of the ph converts to the target/active steroid, but some does and that's a fact.
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Advertised “Fact”: P-BOLD CYP 17a1 converts to the potent anabolic intermediate hormone Boldine (1,4 Andro) and then at an incredibly high rate converts to 17bHSD Boldenone: an active steroid hormone known for building lean muscle mass, maximizing strength , hardening and produces very little bloating.

I did a lot of reading by Patrick Arnold, who you all know is probably the most knowledgeable prohormone guru in the world. He said : “Boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17β-ol) does not metabolize to any 1,4-3b-ols. so 3b-hsd is not acting on these in the direction of reduction. That could mean it doesn’t work on these in the direction of oxidation either.” He further went on to say in vitro the conversion of “P-Bold” to 1,4 Andro seems to work, but no one knows if it works in the body that way, but there is a likelihood that it does, with a very low conversion rate, of like 15%.

Boldione itself likely does not have any significant anabolic or androgenic value. However after interaction in vitro with the 17b-HSD enzyme, boldione is converted to the illegal anabolic steroid boldenone. Boldione can also be converted to 1-androstenedione (1-AD) and/or 1-testosterone after interaction with the 5a-reductase enzyme. These metabolites are where this pro-hormone gets most of its effects. Since boldione is a dione, conversions to the more powerful steroid metabolites are expected to be near 15-20%, which is another reason why such high doses are needed to see results.

So, let’s say it does actually convert to 1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17β-ol after interaction with the 5a-reductase enzyme in the body (which we do not know). Injectable Equip is weak as it is, so for anyone to notice any effect from the prohormone P-Bold, you’d have to ingest so much of it a day it be impractical.
 
Bigchourico said:
DetroitHammer said:
Ok, because a synthetic PH will not convert to synthetic steroid under any circumstance. /QUOTE]
Wtf the definition of a prohormone
Is a precursor of a hormone, that is converted to an active hormone by peripheral metabolism.And they've been selling a lot of them for years now. My first was 1-ad by Ergopharm.
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The first prohormone developed by Patrick Arnold. Converts to 1-testosterone, a 5-alpha reduced 1-ene steroid, a natural occurring steroid which is why it's illegal now. So yes, 1-AD was a powerful steroid precursor.
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DetroitHammer said:
Advertised “Fact”: P-BOLD CYP 17a1 converts to the potent anabolic intermediate hormone Boldine (1,4 Andro) and then at an incredibly high rate converts to 17bHSD Boldenone: an active steroid hormone known for building lean muscle mass, maximizing strength , hardening and produces very little bloating.

I did a lot of reading by Patrick Arnold, who you all know is probably the most knowledgeable prohormone guru in the world. He said : “Boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17β-ol) does not metabolize to any 1,4-3b-ols. so 3b-hsd is not acting on these in the direction of reduction. That could mean it doesn’t work on these in the direction of oxidation either.” He further went on to say in vitro the conversion of “P-Bold” to 1,4 Andro seems to work, but no one knows if it works in the body that way, but there is a likelihood that it does, with a very low conversion rate, of like 15%.

Boldione itself likely does not have any significant anabolic or androgenic value. However after interaction in vitro with the 17b-HSD enzyme, boldione is converted to the illegal anabolic steroid boldenone. Boldione can also be converted to 1-androstenedione (1-AD) and/or 1-testosterone after interaction with the 5a-reductase enzyme. These metabolites are where this pro-hormone gets most of its effects. Since boldione is a dione, conversions to the more powerful steroid metabolites are expected to be near 15-20%, which is another reason why such high doses are needed to see results.

So, let’s say it does actually convert to 1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17β-ol after interaction with the 5a-reductase enzyme in the body (which we do not know). Injectable Equip is weak as it is, so for anyone to notice any effect from the prohormone P-Bold, you’d have to ingest so much of it a day it be impractical.
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DetroitHammer said:
Bigchourico said:
The first prohormone developed by Patrick Arnold. Converts to 1-testosterone, a 5-alpha reduced 1-ene steroid, a natural occurring steroid which is why it's illegal now. So yes, 1-AD was a powerful steroid precursor.
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I see what you're saying and I see what vida is saying....

I'm in agreement with you. I also read PA's comments on P Bold being bunk and I after I ran it, I agree.

You can't throw out a blanket statement saying that no prohormones convert to active steroids and I think that's what vida was saying. For instance, you just said in your last post that the original 1-ad converted to 1-test being an active steroid. That is obviously contradicting your statement that none convert

- Valdez
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Valdez said:
DetroitHammer said:
I see what you're saying and I see what vida is saying....

I'm in agreement with you. I also read PA's comments on P Bold being bunk and I after I ran it, I agree.

You can't throw out a blanket statement saying that no prohormones convert to active steroids and I think that's what vida was saying. For instance, you just said in your last post that the original 1-ad converted to 1-test being an active steroid. That is obviously contradicting your statement that none convert

- Valdez
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I see what you mean. I should have clarified it by saying the current "legal" PH are primarily what I was referring to. And it may also be a matter of interpretation on my part. To me, a synthetic steroid which is not produced naturally (like Tren for example) will not be replicated synthetically by your body by mixing the chemicals internally. But the triggering of natural hormones by way of PH was never in question. I used DHEA as an example earlier. DHEA is considered a PH and it works to increase the natural production of test. Although it's effectiveness is questionable, it does what a PH is supposed to do. It was the term "synthetic" that I focused on. Thanks...
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DetroitHammer said:
Why don't you just kick it off with Adrol or Dbol? Why fool around with PHs? If you have the real Halo, then there are probably less sides with Adrol than with Halo.
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Believe me I would if I had the cash man. If I could I would run winny or Tbol. Want to run some ph for solid muscle gains
 
RippedCity said:
Believe me I would if I had the cash man. If I could I would run winny or Tbol. Want to run some ph for solid muscle gains
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Why not kick start with Methylstenbolone M-sten/Ultradrol.. It gives quick gains and supposedly a little milder on the sides than Superdrol...

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vidapreta said:
Why not kick start with Methylstenbolone M-sten/Ultradrol.. It gives quick gains and supposedly a little milder on the sides than Superdrol...

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How does that compare to hdrol
 
RippedCity said:
How does that compare to hdrol
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It's a lot stronger than hdrol its closer to Superdrol IMO...but u just posted if you had the money you would run Anadrol or Dianabol... So why not go the Methylstenbolone route?? It'll be great for a kickstart ... Quick mass..

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Do a search on M-sten from IML there coming out with a 10mg dose supposedly really pure..

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I'm with Detroit on this one, kick starts are fine but IMO they only serve the purpose of feeling on ad making gains quicker. I ran a cycle a couple months ago, I did SD to kick start and I also finished off my last 4 weeks with SD. TBH, it was wayyyy more amazing and beneficial at the end. Thinking about it, to kick start you are really only seeing one compound (the kick start) the first 4 weeks, when the test has full kicked in and you run that same compound now you are truly on test and SD for example. My gains were insane having full stable blood levels of both.

My suggestion, get some test p and kick start that way, establish your stable blood levels of testosterone and then throw in a strong oral. The gains will be very pleasing.
 
technique88 said:
I'm with Detroit on this one, kick starts are fine but IMO they only serve the purpose of feeling on ad making gains quicker. I ran a cycle a couple months ago, I did SD to kick start and I also finished off my last 4 weeks with SD. TBH, it was wayyyy more amazing and beneficial at the end. Thinking about it, to kick start you are really only seeing one compound (the kick start) the first 4 weeks, when the test has full kicked in and you run that same compound now you are truly on test and SD for example. My gains were insane having full stable blood levels of both.

My suggestion, get some test p and kick start that way, establish your stable blood levels of testosterone and then throw in a strong oral. The gains will be very pleasing.
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So then kick start and then end with it.. even better..the best of both worlds..lol

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technique88 said:
I'm with Detroit on this one, kick starts are fine but IMO they only serve the purpose of feeling on ad making gains quicker.
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That is exactly the point of a kick start
 
vidapreta said:
So then kick start and then end with it.. even better..the best of both worlds..lol

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That's what I did lol
 
Bigchourico said:
That is exactly the point of a kick start
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::face palm::

Lol this is true. I guess what I was trying to say that you get better gains from an oral when test is fully flowing opposed to just a kick start.

To rephrase my advice, if you are looking to feel I quicker, go for the quick start, but if you are going for getting the most out of your oral than wait if you have the patience. Although I agree with Detroit I know myself and do not have the patience ;)
 
Alright bros well I decided.

Test E 500 mgs week 1-10
Sten-zine aka DMZ 2.0 2 caps week 1-4
Aromasin 12.5 Eod 1-16
Nolva 2 weeks after last shot 40/20/20/10

Lets get yoked
 
RippedCity said:
Alright bros well I decided.

Test E 500 mgs week 1-10
Sten-zine aka DMZ 2.0 2 caps week 1-4
Aromasin 12.5 Eod 1-16
Nolva 2 weeks after last shot 40/20/20/10

Lets get yoked
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Nice, Here comes the Mass..:D

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RippedCity said:
Alright bros well I decided.

Test E 500 mgs week 1-10
Sten-zine aka DMZ 2.0 2 caps week 1-4
Aromasin 12.5 Eod 1-16
Nolva 2 weeks after last shot 40/20/20/10

Lets get yoked
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Personally i would drop the aromasin while on nolva. Nolva should still prevent gyno but if u run aromasin all the way thru ur gonna have wicked rebound after pct. other than that it looks good.
 
grandroid828 said:
Personally i would drop the aromasin while on nolva. Nolva should still prevent gyno but if u run aromasin all the way thru ur gonna have wicked rebound after pct. other than that it looks good.
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One of the bragging rights of Aromasin is the lack of rebound. In fact, Aromasin has been shown to greatly stimulate natural testosterone production by a slight androgenic nature. Not only can it also increase total testosterone production, Aromasin actively does so while increasing natural IGF 1. If all you're concerned about is gyno, then a SERM is ok, but we should all worry about the effects on the prostrate as well, and running Aromasin from day one to the end of PCT should be fine. Personally, I'd never use a SERM, only a good quality AI, like Aromasin.
 
DetroitHammer said:
One of the bragging rights of Aromasin is the lack of rebound. In fact, Aromasin has been shown to greatly stimulate natural testosterone production by a slight androgenic nature. Not only can it also increase total testosterone production, Aromasin actively does so while increasing natural IGF 1. If all you're concerned about is gyno, then a SERM is ok, but we should all worry about the effects on the prostrate as well, and running Aromasin from day one to the end of PCT should be fine. Personally, I'd never use a SERM, only a good quality AI, like Aromasin.
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This is spot on. I don't know what that dude meant with rebound.... obviously he licks his computer monitor. But.. aromasin is a suicide inhibitor (type I) which means it doesn't block estrogen but binds too the aromatase enzyme all together and renders it inactive permanently. Adex is a type II AI and stops estrogen by binding to the aromatase enzyme BUT after use is stopped or blood levels drop is unattaches and the enzyme is rendered active again. This is rebound.

Aromasin is superior to all other AIs and its ability to increase testosterone production and IGF is a winning combo....

Nolva can cause rebound too
 
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