Best on cycle Liver protectant??

Turbo4V

New member
I am gonna be starting a Test/Dbol cycle soon and was wondering why everyone thought about Liver protectant. Should I use a specific one or is Milk thistle just as good for less money?
 
on cycle by CEL is pretty good.
 
Liv 52 for sure, cheap and highly effective.
 
you can always supplemet it with MT, its so damn cheap it wont hurt your wallet, buy it in bulk take it by the teaspoon!
 
Every product advertised as a "Liver aide/protectant/support" contains Milk Thistle. Just saying

Edit: NEARLY every product. Better?
 
Rhadam said:
Milk thistle is garbage for liver protection.

TUDCA, UDCA, SAMe > basically everything else.
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This. Although milk thistle may have its purpose for general over health taken daily, it is near useless for combating negative effects of methylated steroids/PHs.


TUDCA and UCDA have peer reviewed studies that support their effectiveness.
 
howwedo107 said:
I like liv52
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I'd like to like it, but I'm just not convinced. Despite all the studies they post on their site, I've seen additional studies that show zero effect. There is also some kind of discrepancy between the "orange tops" and "green tops"... the latter coming from India, and supposedly being the "legit" variation. I can't remember all the details, but it seemed very suspect to me. I just can't trust my liver health to some $5 product that sounds way too good to be true. My $0.02.

If you have additional info, I'd sure be open to reading it though. I'd love to get great protection for that price. For now, it's UDCA and PPC for me.
 
rubberring said:
Hepatopro (PPC) is OTC, and is made by Life Extension. Just picked some up on Amazon.

UDCA can be found on research chem sites.
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Silly me for asking dumb questions before looking into that cabinet that has all the ingredients for my lab-rat experiments...
 
when i asked this question n2guard was recommended by a few guys....now noone is saying to use that product....am i taking the wrong ****?
 
morris14 said:
when i asked this question n2guard was recommended by a few guys....now noone is saying to use that product....am i taking the wrong ****?
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Looks like a really expensive B-vitamin with relatively low doses of herbal diuretics and a "proprietary blend" (ughh) containing NAC, milk thistle, and regular phosphatidylcholine (not PPC)... in a 7-capsule serving.

Nothing wrong with it... but you'd be better off buying NAC and PPC separately and adding them to your multi, imo.

Btw, why is vitamin C listed twice... at 50mg and 250mg? And vitamin E isn't listed under "RDA of vitamins..."? Strange label.

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N2gaurd did nothing for me. I made that mistake and now I use UDCA. I also have a combo of herbs that I think help too.
 
Rhadam said:
We all make mistakes, then we learn from them and disregard all the nonsense products and simply use TUDCA or UDCA.
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How many times have you used these products? (TUDCA/UDCA) they've been around since the 50's but just now (appx 1-2 months) seeing ppl on the forums boasting about their protective qualities
 
BlackGT99 said:
How many times have you used these products? (TUDCA/UDCA) they've been around since the 50's but just now (appx 1-2 months) seeing ppl on the forums boasting about their protective qualities
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I use TUDCA any time i stack oral steroids. I've never used UDCA. I am highly familiar with the clinical backing though.

Yes these things have been around for a while, but they are coming back in to light as people like myself try to get the word out. Big Pharma is continually trying to keep TUDCA/UDCA off the market and it's a battle to find sources. I consider TUDCA/UDCA to be one of the main reasons that some bodybuilders (from 70s-80s) are still in decent health to this day.
 
Rhadam said:
I use TUDCA any time i stack oral steroids. I've never used UDCA. I am highly familiar with the clinical backing though.

Yes these things have been around for a while, but they are coming back in to light as people like myself try to get the word out. Big Pharma is continually trying to keep TUDCA/UDCA off the market and it's a battle to find sources. I consider TUDCA/UDCA to be one of the main reasons that some bodybuilders (from 70s-80s) are still in decent health to this day.
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As always they try and ban the Good stuff... I'm thinking I need to find a source and certainly put TUDCA through its paces. I'm glad you're familiar with the clinical studies so that you can educate us
 
morris14 said:
when i asked this question n2guard was recommended by a few guys....now noone is saying to use that product....am i taking the wrong ****?
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Did you by chance ask this over at elite? They push all sorts of n2 products...
 
rubberring said:
About as weak as it gets. The milk thistle isn't even standardized for silymarin... and it's part of a proprietary blend.
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Thanks for pointing that out... I'll check out some of the other ones mentioned in this thread... What's your favorite?
 
NAC is decent for overall health, but compared to the toxicity of oral steroids... doesn't help as much as people want to think.
 
Rhadam said:
NAC is decent for overall health, but compared to the toxicity of oral steroids... doesn't help as much as people want to think.
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Which is why I used the word add in reference to UDCA/PPC. Pretty sure 17-aa steroids decrease glutathione, so NAC would probably help out there. Either way, I use it intermittently year-round, mostly because it helps dramatically with OCD symptoms.
 
rubberring said:
Which is why I used the word add in reference to UDCA/PPC. Pretty sure 17-aa steroids decrease glutathione, so NAC would probably help out there. Either way, I use it intermittently year-round, mostly because it helps dramatically with OCD symptoms.
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Ya i wasn't trying to correct you, just tossing my 2 cents out there. NAC is great year round, and i do stack it with TUDCA for the additional benefits.
 
rubberring said:
The IRONy here is that 30 grams of ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA) can be found at a particular research chemical site. So quit DRAGON your feet and pick some up. :icon16:
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How are you dosing this throughout your cycle?
 
Thorny76 said:
How are you dosing this throughout your cycle?
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The jury's still out on the most efficient dosing protocol. Some take as little as 250mg twice weekly, and others up to 1 gram daily. Personally, I go with 500mg ed when taking an oral.

Here's a recent thread:
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Also, there's this:

"PHARMACOLOGY
Pharmacodynamic properties
The mechanism of action of udca in liver and cholestatic disorders has not yet been explained totally. However, udca alters bile acid composition, resulting in increases in the concentration of udca and decreases in the concentrations of the more hydrophobic and potentially toxic bile acids, cholic and chenodeoxycholic acids. udca also has a choleretic effect, resulting in increased bile acid output and bile flow. There is some evidence for immunological effects, including a reduction of abnormal expression of HLA Class I antigens on hepatocytes and a suppression of immunoglobulin and cytokine production.

Pharmacokinetic Properties
udca occurs naturally in the body. After oral administration of a single 500 mg dose of udca to healthy volunteers, peak plasma concentrations were 7 to 16 µM. Tmax occurs at 60 minutes and a second peak plasma concentration occurs at 180 minutes. After oral administration of 250 mg, 500 mg, 1000 mg and 2000 mg single doses, respective absorption rates were 60.3%, 47.7%, 30.7% and 20.7% based on recovery from bile within 24 hours in patients with external biliary drainage.

In plasma, protein binding is 96 - 98%.

First pass extraction of udca from the portal vein by the liver ranges from 50 - 70%. udca is conjugated to glycine and taurine and then excreted into bile and passes to the small bowel. In the intestine, some conjugates are deconjugated and reabsorbed in the terminal ileum. Conjugates may also be dehydroxylated to lithocholic acid, part of which is absorbed, sulphated by the liver and excreted by the biliary tract. In healthy volunteers given udca 500 mg with 14C tracer, 30 - 44% of the dose was excreted in faeces in the first three days as udca (2 - 4%), lithocholic acid (37%) and 7-ketolithocholic acid (5%).

The biological half-life of orally administered udca is 3.5 - 5.8 days."
 
rubberring said:
The jury's still out on the most efficient dosing protocol. Some take as little as 250mg twice weekly, and others up to 1 gram daily. Personally, I go with 500mg ed when taking an oral.

Here's a recent thread:


Also, there's this:

"PHARMACOLOGY
Pharmacodynamic properties
The mechanism of action of udca in liver and cholestatic disorders has not yet been explained totally. However, udca alters bile acid composition, resulting in increases in the concentration of udca and decreases in the concentrations of the more hydrophobic and potentially toxic bile acids, cholic and chenodeoxycholic acids. udca also has a choleretic effect, resulting in increased bile acid output and bile flow. There is some evidence for immunological effects, including a reduction of abnormal expression of HLA Class I antigens on hepatocytes and a suppression of immunoglobulin and cytokine production.

Pharmacokinetic Properties
udca occurs naturally in the body. After oral administration of a single 500 mg dose of udca to healthy volunteers, peak plasma concentrations were 7 to 16 µM. Tmax occurs at 60 minutes and a second peak plasma concentration occurs at 180 minutes. After oral administration of 250 mg, 500 mg, 1000 mg and 2000 mg single doses, respective absorption rates were 60.3%, 47.7%, 30.7% and 20.7% based on recovery from bile within 24 hours in patients with external biliary drainage.

In plasma, protein binding is 96 - 98%.

First pass extraction of udca from the portal vein by the liver ranges from 50 - 70%. udca is conjugated to glycine and taurine and then excreted into bile and passes to the small bowel. In the intestine, some conjugates are deconjugated and reabsorbed in the terminal ileum. Conjugates may also be dehydroxylated to lithocholic acid, part of which is absorbed, sulphated by the liver and excreted by the biliary tract. In healthy volunteers given udca 500 mg with 14C tracer, 30 - 44% of the dose was excreted in faeces in the first three days as udca (2 - 4%), lithocholic acid (37%) and 7-ketolithocholic acid (5%).

The biological half-life of orally administered udca is 3.5 - 5.8 days."
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Thanks for the info! Way more than I expected haha
 
(t)UDCA is going to change the way hepatoxic oral cycles are run for sure... it should be a staple anytime a 17aa compound is used IMHO.
 
along with, since (t)UDCA is liver only, and there are more things to be worried about than just your liver.
 
So when taking Aegis on cycle, is it still recommended to take something like CEL Cycle Support AS WELL, or will one or the other suffice?
 
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