I thought it was great as a standalone (well with forma and a few natty supps).....like I was saying on here the other day, I had to make it a 4 week cycle at 20mg per day....next time I'll probably do 6 weeks at 6/13/20/20/13/6....that way one bottle (expensive) lasts one cycle. I don't like the idea of the lower dosed weeks, but supposedly the stuff works well at lower doses....I did get mine on special when it first came out, I think like 50-60 a bottle? something like that...its pretty pricey now though (I know you don't like high priced stuff, example: PP lol).....