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Retrospectively can i still make gains with my levels?

David Dunn said:
Unless you are an endurance/sports athlete there is absolutely no need for all of those carbohydrates...especially an endomorph. Up the protein and/or fat and drop the to no more than 1g/lb...even that is too much for you IMHO.
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I am an ectomorph weighing over 200 lbs 6 ft 2 very lean. I eat about 450 grams of carbs per day. But that is because of my body type no way should an endo eat that many carbs I agree. I need 3400 cals just to maintain my weight...
 
lboston said:
This should serve you well man. Some are just more carb sensitive than others. Try what David is saying and see if it works for you. I can eat tons of protein, healthy fats and make solid gains. However, carbs of any kind seem to put a little bloat/ fat on, guaranteed!

Not going to hurt you to try.
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May be he's.just genetically fuked until one gets more.muscle.maturity. I did.not.get.bigger at first but stronger then size came later. I was born with.incredible tendons.strength thank god. As long as i can do double.body weight bench 3.or.more time.in dead.lift.and.squat while maintaining low body fat im.happy and.with out.roids i.am.happy as.pig in ****z. Not bad for.approaching 40..
 
You're getting a lot of good information in here man. You should try to have an open minded conversation when approaching others for help. Very knowledgeable members here and they're "trying" to help you.

You've said it yourself here in this very thread something your doing isn't working. With T levels like that gaining mass shouldn't be a problem.

Also, try to learn and grow being argumentative isn't going to help you figure out where the problem is BUT listening to well respected members advice might and more than likely will. I can understand being objective and thinking for yourself but damn dude. Leave your ego at the door, converse and let these guys help you set yourself up for some lean gains.
 
Valdez said:
You're getting a lot of good information in here man. You should try to have an open minded conversation when approaching others for help. Very knowledgeable members here and they're "trying" to help you.

You've said it yourself here in this very thread something your doing isn't working. With T levels like that gaining mass shouldn't be a problem.

Also, try to learn and grow being argumentative isn't going to help you figure out where the problem is BUT listening to well respected members advice might and more than likely will. I can understand being objective and thinking for yourself but damn dude. Leave your ego at the door, converse and let these guys help you set yourself up for some lean gains.
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^this^

I flew off the handle a bit and apologize, but I did offer some good info as did a host of other people. Good luck young grasshopper...
 
The Matrix said:
May be he's.just genetically fuked until one gets more.muscle.maturity. I did.not.get.bigger at first but stronger then size came later. I was born with.incredible tendons.strength thank god. As long as i can do double.body weight bench 3.or.more time.in dead.lift.and.squat while maintaining low body fat im.happy and.with out.roids i.am.happy as.pig in ****z. Not bad for.approaching 40..
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No doubt. I agree with you on the strength and size comment you made. I have always been stronger than most I saw at the gym, squatting approx 450 at 185 lbs. however, i did not have the size that one would think would accompany thjs. I'm just now, at 27, really starting to see good size gains, consistently.
 
David Dunn said:
too many carbohydrates :)
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you are correct in this aspect with madcows, it was my first strength type program and made the mistake of eating to many carbs, it is relatively very low volume as there is really only one working set to each exercise, so no need for a lot of carbs...
 
David Dunn said:
Unless you are an endurance/sports athlete there is absolutely no need for all of those carbohydrates...especially an endomorph. Up the protein and/or fat and drop the to no more than 1g/lb...even that is too much for you IMHO.
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other then putting on fat what are the other reasons why i should keep carbs low? what are the benefits to gains that a max of one gram of carbs per pound of body weight offers, and im guessing around 1.5 grams of fat (the rest would be made up of protein)? If i was doing a hypertrophy based program would the significance of carbs greatly improve, ie need to get 2 grams per pound of body-weight to restore glycogen etc, i have always thought carbs were highly important and anabolic in there own right...

Soz for the questions but just want to know why
thanks
 
lboston said:
No doubt. I agree with you on the strength and size comment you made. I have always been stronger than most I saw at the gym, squatting approx 450 at 185 lbs. however, i did not have the size that one would think would accompany thjs. I'm just now, at 27, really starting to see good size gains, consistently.
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Amazing thing called muscle maturity...Which some people are trying to rush ...COUGH COUGH.....
Closure of bones do not happen till age 25-26 on the average. People are always in a hurry in life. Slow down enjoy the ride..It only happens once..

When did I start getting big ? After I stopped micromanaging caloires because just this crap along will stress you out and no keep you from growing. I never count caloires I eat via portions same way as I prep people for contest. Ex you where eating a medium size half cut it in half ..KISS is the key to optimal growth, but people will never learn. Trying to make a something simple into a metabolic enigma AINT worth it..
 
jman12 said:
other then putting on fat what are the other reasons why i should keep carbs low? what are the benefits to gains that a max of one gram of carbs per pound of body weight offers, and im guessing around 1.5 grams of fat (the rest would be made up of protein)? If i was doing a hypertrophy based program would the significance of carbs greatly improve, ie need to get 2 grams per pound of body-weight to restore glycogen etc, i have always thought carbs were highly important and anabolic in there own right...

Soz for the questions but just want to know why
thanks
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These are great questions. Way to not be a yes man. Its great to think, learn and grow.

From what I've read so far in this thread is that based off your current diet the Carbs are high for YOU. With the information given they have come up with the idea that your phenotype is that of an endomorph which I tend to agree with. What it looks like they were saying is based on your current diet the only real thing that you could change because your diet was relatively well put together is lowering the Carb intake and raising the HEALTHY fat intake.

Do a little bit of reading on Carb timing, insulin response etc. don't get defensive i'm just saying that there is always more learning to be done for everyone. I myself am an ectomorph (which is a hard gainer) and even I will put on some midsection flub if I go all out on Carbs, its all about how you respond to them personally buddy.

Figuring out something specific to you will take a while you're going to have to try out all different sorts of things.to find what works best for you personally. I wish I would have taken the time to do so when I was your age I would be quite a bit ahead right now. I have a book you might be interested in, pm me if so.

Also, if I remember correctly you're 21 stay away from binge alcohol nights and sugary drinks.
 
Valdez said:
These are great questions. Way to not be a yes man. Its great to think, learn and grow.

From what I've read so far in this thread is that based off your current diet the Carbs are high for YOU. With the information given they have come up with the idea that your phenotype is that of an endomorph which I tend to agree with. What it looks like they were saying is based on your current diet the only real thing that you could change because your diet was relatively well put together is lowering the Carb intake and raising the HEALTHY fat intake.

Do a little bit of reading on Carb timing, insulin response etc. don't get defensive i'm just saying that there is always more learning to be done for everyone. I myself am an ectomorph (which is a hard gainer) and even I will put on some midsection flub if I go all out on Carbs, its all about how you respond to them personally buddy.

Figuring out something specific to you will take a while you're going to have to try out all different sorts of things.to find what works best for you personally. I wish I would have taken the time to do so when I was your age I would be quite a bit ahead right now. I have a book you might be interested in, pm me if so.

Also, if I remember correctly you're 21 stay away from binge alcohol nights and sugary drinks.
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your making something simple sound like rocket science and its not...
 
The Matrix said:
your making something simple sound like rocket science and its not...
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Getting my diet in check macros etc was not simple for me... It may have been for you or others but it took me a while to figure out what worked best for me
 
IMO you (the OP) are making weight gain happen too fast. I think that 2 lbs per week is a very general number and in your case might be gaining too much weight too fast. Muscle gains take time and if you slowed down how much you were eating and didn't try to rush it I think you would see some nice slow and consistent gains. For every 2 lbs of weight gained most of that is not going to be muscle. I would aim for 1 lb increase per week MAX. Think if you gained .5 lbs every week for a year slowly building muscle while minimizing fat gain you would gain a lot of muscle in that year. When I track my progress from when I started lifting 6 years ago I steadily gained about 12-15 lbs per year (I started out at 130). Muscle building takes a lot of time and a lot of patience, and it can be hard to see that you are making gains sometimes when you are expecting to look bigger in a few months. Keep doing progressive overload with the weights and you will get bigger over time guaranteed.
 
bigdavid said:
IMO you (the OP) are making weight gain happen too fast. I think that 2 lbs per week is a very general number and in your case might be gaining too much weight too fast. Muscle gains take time and if you slowed down how much you were eating and didn't try to rush it I think you would see some nice slow and consistent gains. For every 2 lbs of weight gained most of that is not going to be muscle. I would aim for 1 lb increase per week MAX. Think if you gained .5 lbs every week for a year slowly building muscle while minimizing fat gain you would gain a lot of muscle in that year. When I track my progress from when I started lifting 6 years ago I steadily gained about 12-15 lbs per year (I started out at 130). Muscle building takes a lot of time and a lot of patience, and it can be hard to see that you are making gains sometimes when you are expecting to look bigger in a few months. Keep doing progressive overload with the weights and you will get bigger over time guaranteed.
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This ^^ I started out at 117 I was skinny to say the least... 8 years later (1 year off for basic training and ait) 70 lbs heavier, it takes time
 
Valdez said:
This ^^ I started out at 117 I was skinny to say the least... 8 years later (1 year off for basic training and ait) 70 lbs heavier, it takes time
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I prefer to gain 5 -8lbs but total reconstruct my whole body in the process looking 20-30 lbs heavier..Even being 190 people thought I was 220 because of my structure..
 
jman12 said:
other then putting on fat what are the other reasons why i should keep carbs low? what are the benefits to gains that a max of one gram of carbs per pound of body weight offers, and im guessing around 1.5 grams of fat (the rest would be made up of protein)? If i was doing a hypertrophy based program would the significance of carbs greatly improve, ie need to get 2 grams per pound of body-weight to restore glycogen etc, i have always thought carbs were highly important and anabolic in there own right...

Soz for the questions but just want to know why
thanks
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You deplete approximately 20-30% of glycogen stores from resistance training. It is very dependent upon intensity and duration. If you are training for 45 mins it should and could be even less.

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By consumimg so many carbohydrates you are causing glycogen spillover and causing yourself to gain fat.

Going into a training session you are saturated with glycogen assuming you are not carb resticted and or depleted. Keep in mind glycogen comes in other forms such as protein (glycogenisis). You then deplete only 20-30% of your glycogen during your training. Therefore you need only to replenish 20-30% of your glycogen. For you as an endomorph you need to consider that it is likely that you need less than say an ectomorph. You need to study your body and its response to small incremental adjustments rather than dump a ton of carbs into your diet with the assumption that it will be needed. For you it is likely it will not be needed.

Again, I'd like to try to pursuade you to consider droping your carb intake to 100g for 8 to 12 weeks (while increasing protein and fats for a total calories of ~15X/BW) and see what you body composition looks like. Assuming you are training right with proper periodization and intensity and rest I see no reason to believe you will not benefit from this approach.

EDIT: actually if you just drop down the carbs you will be fine for calories because you are already eat 20X/BW for calories.

I am an endomorph that is successful using this strategy and have done so for 10 years now.
 
David Dunn said:
You deplete approximately 20-30% of glycogen stores from resistance training. It is very dependent upon intensity and duration. If you are training for 45 mins it should and could be even less.




By consumimg so many carbohydrates you are causing glycogen spillover and causing yourself to gain fat.

Going into a training session you are saturated with glycogen assuming you are not carb resticted and or depleted. Keep in mind glycogen comes in other forms such as protein (glycogenisis). You then deplete only 20-30% of your glycogen during your training. Therefore you need only to replenish 20-30% of your glycogen. For you as an endomorph you need to consider that it is likely that you need less than say an ectomorph. You need to study your body and its response to small incremental adjustments rather than dump a ton of carbs into your diet with the assumption that it will be needed. For you it is likely it will not be needed.

Again, I'd like to try to pursuade you to consider droping your carb intake to 100g for 8 to 12 weeks (while increasing protein and fats for a total calories of ~15X/BW) and see what you body composition looks like. Assuming you are training right with proper periodization and intensity and rest I see no reason to believe you will not benefit from this approach.

EDIT: actually if you just drop down the carbs you will be fine for calories because you are already eat 20X/BW for calories.

I am an endomorph that is successful using this strategy and have done so for 10 years now.
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Okay i understand what your trying to say about fat gain and the less need for carbs, but at the end of the day with the programs i have followed should i of not built muscle despite eating more carbs then i should have for my body-type? ultimately this has been the problem...
Although i understand what you are saying about eating more fats due to body type etc
 
jman12 said:
Okay i understand what your trying to say about fat gain and the less need for carbs, but at the end of the day with the programs i have followed should i of not built muscle despite eating more carbs then i should have for my body-type? ultimately this has been the problem...
Although i understand what you are saying about eating more fats due to body type etc
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to answer that question refer back to my post above regarding how fast you can gain muscle vs fat..
 
bigdavid said:
to answer that question refer back to my post above regarding how fast you can gain muscle vs fat..
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that does not answer my question, at the end of the day i was putting on weight, wherever it was 1 or 2 pounds a week i was gaining weight, however, i built no muscle, nothing at all, even if i put on a bit to much fat (only put on to much fat on madcows) i should of still built muscle...
 
jman12 said:
that does not answer my question, at the end of the day i was putting on weight, wherever it was 1 or 2 pounds a week i was gaining weight, however, i built no muscle, nothing at all, even if i put on a bit to much fat (only put on to much fat on madcows) i should of still built muscle...
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I am sure you were gaining SOME muscle. If you truly were building no muscle it is not because of your test levels. Just try the suggested diet suggested above by others. When you eat a lot, gain a lot of fat, then you reduce your cals because you dont want to gain more fat, you are yoyoing and that will yield 0 net muscle gain. Gain the weight slower and more will be muscle and you wont yoyo anymore. What type of lifting do you do currently?
 
bigdavid said:
I am sure you were gaining SOME muscle. If you truly were building no muscle it is not because of your test levels. Just try the suggested diet suggested above by others. When you eat a lot, gain a lot of fat, then you reduce your cals because you dont want to gain more fat, you are yoyoing and that will yield 0 net muscle gain. Gain the weight slower and more will be muscle and you wont yoyo anymore. What type of lifting do you do currently?
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for the last month or so I have not really been going to the gym as i have been resting an injury, but was planning to start a strength program when i come back. Honestly i built no muscle, I don't build jack **** unfortunately, I wish there was a test or a place were i can go to get a biopsy done to test what muscle fibers I have lol, then i could really make some progress. And i dont yoyo when im bulking i make sure i make a steady weight gain progress
 
jman12 said:
for the last month or so I have not really been going to the gym as i have been resting an injury, but was planning to start a strength program when i come back. Honestly i built no muscle, I don't build jack **** unfortunately, I wish there was a test or a place were i can go to get a biopsy done to test what muscle fibers I have lol, then i could really make some progress. And i dont yoyo when im bulking i make sure i make a steady weight gain progress
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Sorry about the injury. What type of programs were you doing when you weren't making progress?
 
bigdavid said:
Sorry about the injury. What type of programs were you doing when you weren't making progress?
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cheers mate. well as i said i do gain strength so progress is a wrong word to use in that sense. I did not gain progress with size, ie madcows (i know its a strength program but still... HST... simple designed 3 day splits, full body etc... was thinking of dabbling into starting strength actually, From my stats i can still make some good progress on it
 
I have done those programs before and to be fair they are primarily strength based programs. I did them for a long time and did not build nearly as much muscle as I did with a more body split approach. I know you can build muscle on both but I have done them, built a lot of strength (ok amount of leg size actually), but not much upper body size at all. Currently I am doing a body split focused on a 5 day rotation so you hit each muscle with higher frequency than just a typical 7 day split. Maybe for you a push/pull split would be really good to try once you get back into it. Would most likely balance out the strength/size aspect.
 
this is for matrix or anyone else that understands bloods... After reading this thread and others, Matrix preaches that other hormonal imbalances can cause low test. Well these are my other test results that came with my testosterone

Serum oestradiol: 65pmol/L (<=156.0)
Serum free T4 level: 18 pmol/L (10.0-22.0)
Serum TSH level: 2.5mu/L (0.3-5.5)
Serum cortisol: 375 nmol/L (no reference range)

Do these results indicate any reasons why my test might be low?
 
jman12 said:
this is for matrix or anyone else that understands bloods... After reading this thread and others, Matrix preaches that other hormonal imbalances can cause low test. Well these are my other test results that came with my testosterone

Serum oestradiol: 65pmol/L (<=156.0)
Serum free T4 level: 18 pmol/L (10.0-22.0)
Serum TSH level: 2.5mu/L (0.3-5.5)
Serum cortisol: 375 nmol/L (no reference range)

Do these results indicate any reasons why my test might be low?
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As mentioned before this basically useless information tells me nothing about probably cause.
 
jman12 said:
Can you tell me how to test for what you suspect might be causing my low test? I sent you a message but have not recieved anything back yet
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One can.not.test for.information which is not.yet.known. This is why having a detailed medical and personal history is crucial other words you are just farting in the wind. When drs send me information on cases you.may be.looking at 50 or.more.pages.i.have to.go through. Its not a simple task and very time consuming ..
 
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