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Need some final advice for my first run - TestE+Winny

krikit

New member
I'm not going to bother posting a back story, as my question is pretty straight forward. I've been planning my first AAS cycle, with the help of two people who have several years experience in regards to anabolics. I just wanted to post here to get another opinion and some final advice in regards to my PCT.

Here's what my run looks like.

12 weeks of Test E @ 500mg/week
6 weeks of Winny @ 50-75mg/week(From weeks 1-6)
Clomid - 100mg's ed for 15 days, 50mg's ed for remainder of bottle
Nolva - 40mg's ed for 15 days, 20mg's ed for remainder of bottle


My first question is, how necessary is it to include a second SERM? As this is a fairly simple two stack cycle, would you recommend dropping Clomid and just sticking with Nolva?

Also I've been advised to throw in HcG, dosed @ 10,000i.u's spread over 2 weeks. Starting the last week of my cycle and then continuing for 1 week after. From what I've read, HcG isn't necessary for cycles 6-10 weeks long, but is advised for those 12 weeks and longer, or ones with multiple compounds. With just Test-E and Winny, ending at 12 weeks, would you advise HcG?


I appreciate any advice given, I'm always ready to learn more.
 
Drop the clomid and run the test for 16 weeks. Winnie should be the last weeks, not the first. For 16 weeks run the hcg.
 
Appreciate the advice.

It would have to be 15 weeks, as that's 3 bottles. In order to get 16, I'd have to purchase a whole other bottle for that extra week.
 
Id move the winny to the end of the cycle and use hCG starting week 3 through to two weeks after the last test e inject week at 200iu 2x/wk. Id run clomid for pct only and use the nolva low dose on cycle to prevent estro sides. Id have an AI on hand and use it to prevent bounceback after pct. Id use cycle support while on, post cycle support during pct and have a cortisol control and natural test booster at the end of pct.

Check this out: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/141577-unreals-guide-injectables.html
It will review hCG as well as some other aspects of the cycle
 
What is the benefit of running Winny for the last 6 weeks instead of the first? Many of the articles I've read(including Unreals which you posted) have stated that dosing an oral for the first 4-6 weeks is beneficial, especially for a first time cycle.
 
krikit said:
What is the benefit of running Winny for the last 6 weeks instead of the first? Many of the articles I've read(including Unreals which you posted) have stated that dosing an oral for the first 4-6 weeks is beneficial, especially for a first time cycle.
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OOOOOOOO its oral winny. I thought you were injecting. Winny solidifies gains but if you have oral then go for it as a kick. You might want to go with something like hdrol or dbol as your kick and winny as a tail.
 
I would run HCG throughout the cycle. Since it acts like LH ushutdown wont occur. Shutdown starts the first injection you do. The body automatically recognizes the extra androgens. You should inject 50 iu every three days and thend for yoDur last two injections use 2500iu. Dont go over this dose though if you do you'll lose sensitivity to LH. Your test levels may never recover fully after a cycle so this ensures optimal recovery. Also begin clomid two wedks after your last test injection. Nolva is optional but should be used to recover fully especially if you have gyno concerns. I would use it since test converts to estrogen . Good luck with the cycle bro!
 
CrazyChemist said:
OOOOOOOO its oral winny. I thought you were injecting. Winny solidifies gains but if you have oral then go for it as a kick. You might want to go with something like hdrol or dbol as your kick and winny as a tail.
Click to expand...

why does it matter if its liquid or tablet, still the same compound. Only slight difference would be if it was in oil or water
 
mr.macho said:
I would run HCG throughout the cycle. Since it acts like LH ushutdown wont occur. Shutdown starts the first injection you do. The body automatically recognizes the extra androgens. You should inject 50 iu every three days and thend for yoDur last two injections use 2500iu. Dont go over this dose though if you do you'll lose sensitivity to LH. Your test levels may never recover fully after a cycle so this ensures optimal recovery. Also begin clomid two wedks after your last test injection. Nolva is optional but should be used to recover fully especially if you have gyno concerns. I would use it since test converts to estrogen . Good luck with the cycle bro!
Click to expand...

The body does very few things "automatically". The hormonal system is a combination of pulleys and when you put one thing in it tips the scales in the other direction, endogenously. For a long estered test I would postpone the hCG till week 3 or 4 so maximize LH sensitivity. I would NOT run 2500iu for the last two injects. 5000iu in a one week period isnt doing anything special except frying your LH receptors.


jbryand101b said:
why does it matter if its liquid or tablet, still the same compound. Only slight difference would be if it was in oil or water
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The bioavailability and rate of absorption are different, for one. However, as I said in my initial post I would recommend a different oral for a kick and use the winny at the end to solidify gains.

David Dunn said:
run winstrol at the end regardless...dont care what unreal says :)
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There is more than one school of thought. Neither way is "wrong" but I agree that oral winny is an odd choice for a kick.

krikit said:
Can you speak to why it's more important to run it at the end rather than to kick start a cycle?
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Winny is used to solidify gains. That is why most people run it at the end.
 
I haven't seem any data showing there to be any difference in results from tab vs inject, some anectdotal from members showing there to be slight differences in blood work supposedly, and from "experts" like pa, wil llewellyn, etc, they suggest there is no difference.

I believe there are studies comparing injectable vs oral but I haven't spent enough time to find them.

My consensus is thete is no difference, and at the least no significant difference in either performance or sides.

The oil baaed versions of winny an dbol should form a depot when injected, which would slow down the administration of the drug, requiring e/o/d dosing.
 
jbryand101b said:
I haven't seem any data showing there to be any difference in results from tab vs inject, some anectdotal from members showing there to be slight differences in blood work supposedly, and from "experts" like pa, wil llewellyn, etc, they suggest there is no difference.

I believe there are studies comparing injectable vs oral but I haven't spent enough time to find them.

My consensus is thete is no difference, and at the least no significant difference in either performance or sides.

The oil baaed versions of winny an dbol should form a depot when injected, which would slow down the administration of the drug, requiring e/o/d dosing.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there are very few studies on AAS, oral or otherwise. I agree that a given compounds should conform to its expect action in the body. I agree that the difference between introduction into the system should have little effect. That said, most orals have a higher immediate bioavailability (rarely refuted) and orals are usually used as a kick. Oral winny... probbly I'd run that as a tail on the cycle.
 
Does anyone have a guide/tutorial for pinning? Different things like a drawing needle vs injecting needle, and mixing vials have me a little confused.
 
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