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People who cant keep gains?

Flexappeal

Member
Would you think there are people whose body's just cant keep gains? I can't keep an ounce of weight. I just finished an EPI/rs-trans cycle.

Started at 170
Peaked at 179
Day 10 of PCT..... Weight 168

This is my third anabolic cycle, my diet and training is guided. I am really thinking about just moving on to another interest that might yield some progress.... I'm very dedicated and patient, but at the end of the day, the numbers show its a waste of time..... I mean would you work a 40 hour a week job if you werent getting paid?

I've been training for 10 years++ and never moved past 1-year worth of progress.
 
Keeping gains post cycle is based entirely on pct, diet and workout program. Along with how much water gains your compound gives you which is highly related to diet.
So what are your macros?
What training program are you doing?
What was your pct?
 
Dr.Stri8ed said:
What is your diet like?
Click to expand...

200g PR0
150g Fat (healthy)
60g carbs ( before and during training)


Lots of veggies.

During cycle diet was about +400 cals.


I've been doing this for about 12 weeks and it's been incredible. I was also laid off, now back to electrical construction last 5 weeks. I literally can't get any more food down!
 
People lose their gains because they don't continue to increase their calories as their weight continues to increase. You can't eat the same amount that you did when you weighed 170 and expect to maintain a weight of 180.
 
Flexappeal said:
200g PR0
150g Fat (healthy)
60g carbs ( before and during training)


Lots of veggies.

During cycle diet was about +400 cals.


I've been doing this for about 12 weeks and it's been incredible. I was also laid off, now back to electrical construction last 5 weeks. I literally can't get any more food down!
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You're not eating enough. As Rodja said, "you can't eat the same amount that you did when you weighed 170 and expect to maintain a weight of 180."
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
You're not eating enough. As Rodja said, "you can't eat the same amount that you did when you weighed 170 and expect to maintain a weight of 180."
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Right, the only reason is was cut down is because I was gaining some around mid-section. It was a perfect match when I was laid off , ofcourse.... I will up my eating , my job def makes it hard to keep weight. I'm constantly sipping protein and eating packs of nuts while I work.

Pct is

DAA
Erase
Tamoxifen
E-Bol

I wake up light everyday, and soaked... I'm losing alot of water I believe.
 
Rodja said:
People lose their gains because they don't continue to increase their calories as their weight continues to increase. You can't eat the same amount that you did when you weighed 170 and expect to maintain a weight of 180.
Click to expand...

surprisingly it is as simple as that, lol. what you do in/for pct is important, but, diet is always the key.
Want to be 180? Gotta eat like it.
 
Flexappeal said:
Right, the only reason is was cut down is because I was gaining some around mid-section. It was a perfect match when I was laid off , ofcourse.... I will up my eating , my job def makes it hard to keep weight. I'm constantly sipping protein and eating packs of nuts while I work.

Pct is

DAA
Erase
Tamoxifen
E-Bol

I wake up light everyday, and soaked... I'm losing alot of water I believe.
Click to expand...
Never ever ever cut during PCT. Doing so guarantees loss of gains.
 
Definitely up the carbs. Especially if you're trying to add strength and size, which is what it seems like, then you can definitely do ~350 - 450 grams of good carbs, and maybe even some more simple carbs before and after workout. My post-workout shake alone has more carbs - about 108 (w banana about 30 of which is sugar), you definitely need more carbs especially after workout.

I guarantee that will help, also eating carbs helps to stimulate your appetite so eating carbs leads to getting hungrier ~ an hour or two later as you probably know.
 
EPI gives lean low steady gains and it is carb-eater steroid of course. So don’t count just your weigh but you should count your lean body weight (LBW) and for maximum results you should feed EPI with more carbs on cycle. Steroids usually like to eat more carbs and fats and not just protein. They act like white sharks. LOL
Next time try to add with your PH/DS some test base like 4-DHEA.
Of course another important factor is the gym experience.
For example a 22yrs old young guy with 1 year gym experience could take 15lbs for an EPI 1month cycle and after PCT lose most of them. However, a 30yrs old man with 10yrs gym experience could take just 4lbs for an EPI 1 month cycle and after PCT lose just 2lbs.
 
Yeah at that many carbs it is hard to even get all your fiber needs
 
I will be upping the carbs and overall diet. However, I am surprised that all my weight is gone in 10 days. Didn't even think that was possible even if under-eating in such a short amount of time.
 
A lot of the weight gained on cycles is water and glycogen. As stated before, if you could keep all your gains from a cycle we would all be huge. You gotta eat big to get bigger. There are no magic pills.
 
Flexappeal said:
200g PR0
150g Fat (healthy)
60g carbs ( before and during training)

Lots of veggies.

During cycle diet was about +400 cals.

I've been doing this for about 12 weeks and it's been incredible. I was also laid off, now back to electrical construction last 5 weeks. I literally can't get any more food down!
Click to expand...

I think you need to try 300gr protein and 200gr carbs, then limit your fats, your diet may keep you lean, but it's obvious that it's not enough for you with your metabolism

Do you your body fat %
 
Body fat before I started this diet was between 16-17%.... Now it's about 15-16%....it's been about 16 weeks of rigorous training and eating. I am just frustrated with the limited progress! I refuse to quit, it's an addiction at this point!

The whole point of this program was recomp. Regardless I am not big enough, not lean enough...
 
Flexappeal said:
Would you think there are people whose body's just cant keep gains? I can't keep an ounce of weight. I just finished an EPI/rs-trans cycle.

Started at 170
Peaked at 179
Day 10 of PCT..... Weight 168

This is my third anabolic cycle, my diet and training is guided. I am really thinking about just moving on to another interest that might yield some progress.... I'm very dedicated and patient, but at the end of the day, the numbers show its a waste of time..... I mean would you work a 40 hour a week job if you werent getting paid?

I've been training for 10 years++ and never moved past 1-year worth of progress.
Click to expand...

Don't be disappointed or disillusioned. Keeping your gains is mostly wishful thinking. People will probably give me some heat for posting this but to be blunt it's the truth. I've done too many cycles to count, and I can tell you from a decade of first hand experience that you're going to lose everything you gained from your cycles - eventually. Some people lose it slower than others and some people lose it quicker. The people who lose it quickly are the people who often "never come off", or are those who do a bridge, or who don't wait long enough between cycles. It easy to say you kept a lot of your gains if you only took 3 weeks off.. but if you go for a year off? Well, you'll lose all of it, even if you work out hard. Anabolics are temporary and you can either accept that or deny it, but from that decision you will be deciding whether or not you are a life time user.
 
ItsAllGenetic said:
Don't be disappointed or disillusioned. Keeping your gains is mostly wishful thinking. People will probably give me some heat for posting this but to be blunt it's the truth. I've done too many cycles to count, and I can tell you from a decade of first hand experience that you're going to lose everything you gained from your cycles - eventually. Some people lose it slower than others and some people lose it quicker. The people who lose it quickly are the people who often "never come off", or are those who do a bridge, or who don't wait long enough between cycles. It easy to say you kept a lot of your gains if you only took 3 weeks off.. but if you go for a year off? Well, you'll lose all of it, even if you work out hard. Anabolics are temporary and you can either accept that or deny it, but from that decision you will be deciding whether or not you are a life time user.
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I must have good genetics then, because your premise does not apply to me at all
 
Stop taking PH, take 2 more protein shakes a day and eat pasta 4+ times a week. I haven't taken a PH since October and I'm up 4 lbs this year. Lately I feel like diet is more important than everything...even training.
 
jaydollars said:
I must have good genetics then, because your premise does not apply to me at all
Click to expand...

So, you are able to gain infinite muscle then? You can do a cycle, gain the muscle mass, stop the cycle and keep the muscle mass, then repeat the process? I'd likely think this is not the case, although we certainly all wish that it was. What is the longest break you've taken?
 
jaydollars said:
I think you need to try 300gr protein and 200gr carbs, then limit your fats, your diet may keep you lean, but it's obvious that it's not enough for you with your metabolism

Do you your body fat %
Click to expand...

You may be absolutely right, this just seems like a whole lot if work! Some people may have it easier , for me it seems like another 40-50 hr a week job on top of the one that pays me!

It seems like a one way rd to burnout, I'll tell you the first 16 weeks I was laid off , and literally felt like I had the magic recipe! I work in electrical commercial construction. The training, diet and sleep need a 110% Re-Vamp.
 
that is kind of true....you need to take normal PCT time and very minimal time off between cycles....and use whatever non-suppressive aids you can find during this time off/PCT....and jump back into something legit fast as you can....this is the really the only way to keep the majority of your gains and to keep moving forward. or just bridge/cruise whatever you want to call it.....or TRT with cycles of additional AAS/PH....many ways to go about it....but to take a great deal of time off and expect to keep much of your gains is probably dreaming, dependent on genetics I suppose you COULD keep a lot of it....but most won't....
 
DonnyG said:
Stop taking PH, take 2 more protein shakes a day and eat pasta 4+ times a week. I haven't taken a PH since October and I'm up 4 lbs this year. Lately I feel like diet is more important than everything...even training.
Click to expand...

You are very correct. Obviously you have to have to work out hard, that's a given, but area with the most wiggle room, and room for error is diet. Even if you don't work out at all, your diet (aside from uncontrollable things like genetics) is the most important thing determining your body composition, bar none.

I have to say, I'm going into my first cycle as early as tomorrow (yay!) and I'll probably do another one at some point, but I'd like to think that muscle memory will play somewhat of a role. I agree that you'll eventually go back to starting point, but I think AAS can help ppl get over the hump and get acquainted with a new level of bodybuilding, which is what I'm hoping for...
 
Harry Seaward said:
You are very correct. Obviously you have to have to work out hard, that's a given, but area with the most wiggle room, and room for error is diet. Even if you don't work out at all, your diet (aside from uncontrollable things like genetics) is the most important thing determining your body composition, bar none.

I have to say, I'm going into my first cycle as early as tomorrow (yay!) and I'll probably do another one at some point, but I'd like to think that muscle memory will play somewhat of a role. I agree that you'll eventually go back to starting point, but I think AAS can help ppl get over the hump and get acquainted with a new level of bodybuilding, which is what I'm hoping for...
Click to expand...

Touche! I should have touched base on muscle memory. I'm 5'10 and have cut down to 180lbs, but I've been a lean 220lbs before and I stayed at that weight for a year (I stayed on), and even though I've dropped back down to 180lbs 7 years later I look completely different when I have a pump because my muscles stretch like crazy.

You can be natural and be built. Yeah, it's harder to do, and it sucks sometimes. It's tough because you always think about when you were on something and you constantly see other people who are, but you get to keep every bit of what you work for without worrying about the havoc you're wreaking on your hormonal system. I can stay built and stay lean, but that juiced out look just doesn't last for me. I don't have a high enough post count to show you guys a picture of what I currently look like, but if you want the link just shoot me a PM.

Edit: Well nevermind, looks like it attached.
Invalid Link Removed
 
Ya, I hear.... Ive been dieting or just being aware of what eat for all long time. I'm very touchy when it comes to nutrition. The belly loves to add weight and size unlike the muscles. The good thing about this is I know my body and can really fine tune things. I just haven't found the right tune yet.
 
ItsAllGenetic said:
Don't be disappointed or disillusioned. Keeping your gains is mostly wishful thinking. People will probably give me some heat for posting this but to be blunt it's the truth. I've done too many cycles to count, and I can tell you from a decade of first hand experience that you're going to lose everything you gained from your cycles - eventually. Some people lose it slower than others and some people lose it quicker. The people who lose it quickly are the people who often "never come off", or are those who do a bridge, or who don't wait long enough between cycles. It easy to say you kept a lot of your gains if you only took 3 weeks off.. but if you go for a year off? Well, you'll lose all of it, even if you work out hard. Anabolics are temporary and you can either accept that or deny it, but from that decision you will be deciding whether or not you are a life time user.
Click to expand...

ah, no, sorry, this post is full of shiit, and also a fine example of bro logic. (im not gonna say science, cause it's too far from it)

but hey, your pics look good, and you are correct, diet is the most important.
 
ItsAllGenetic said:
Don't be disappointed or disillusioned. Keeping your gains is mostly wishful thinking. People will probably give me some heat for posting this but to be blunt it's the truth. I've done too many cycles to count, and I can tell you from a decade of first hand experience that you're going to lose everything you gained from your cycles - eventually. Some people lose it slower than others and some people lose it quicker. The people who lose it quickly are the people who often "never come off", or are those who do a bridge, or who don't wait long enough between cycles. It easy to say you kept a lot of your gains if you only took 3 weeks off.. but if you go for a year off? Well, you'll lose all of it, even if you work out hard. Anabolics are temporary and you can either accept that or deny it, but from that decision you will be deciding whether or not you are a life time user.
Click to expand...

jbryand101b said:
ah, no, sorry, this post is full of shiit, and also a fine example of bro logic. (im not gonna say science, cause it's too far from it)

but hey, your pics look good, and you are correct, diet is the most important.
Click to expand...


I was waiting for someone to say it..that is honestly one of the most misguided posts I have ever read. The fact that this thread didn't end with someone telling the OP to simply eat more fcking food pissed me off in the first place.

I don't care how many cycle or first hand experience you have it is STILL geared towards you specifically. (not bashing you,it is true) What works/doesn't work for you will in no way be the same for anyone else. With all that said, yes, diet is the absolute most important aspect of bodybuilding and if you aren't willing to accept or figure that out than you shouldn't even be using steroids. Ok so now that my pissy pants rant is over I'm gonna go eat some chicken.
 
I have a lot of pictures on the internet of me.

here is a picture of me, right before I found out I had a brain tumor. im 21, 5'9, and about 145 in this picture.

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and my most recent, at 180, i am now 28, still 5'9" for some reason.

Invalid Link Removed

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If you could keep all those gains you get using PH and AAS, then ask yourself WHY did you NEED to use PH and AAS to get them? hmmm...because your body is not capable of attaining those type gains w/o chemical assistance. It would then stand to reason that you will lose the majority of these gains once the chemicals are no longer around to help....over a given period of time, the longer the time the more gains you will lose. this is common sense.
 
jbryand101b said:
I have a lot of pictures on the internet of me.

here is a picture of me, right before I found out I had a brain tumor. im 21, 5'9, and about 145 in this picture.

Invalid Link Removed

and my most recent, at 180, i am now 28, still 5'9" for some reason.

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

A) are you looking for a date or something?

B) this isn't facebook :D LMFAO
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
If you could keep all those gains you get using PH and AAS, then ask yourself WHY did you NEED to use PH and AAS to get them? hmmm...because your body is not capable of attaining those type gains w/o chemical assistance. It would then stand to reason that you will lose the majority of these gains once the chemicals are no longer around to help....over a given period of time, the longer the time the more gains you will lose. this is common sense.
Click to expand...


x2...the bolded portion is the most important. Steroids are there to assist you and break genetic barriers. If you do not keep your diet/rest/training up while off then yes, your'e going to lose gains
 
ISU152 said:
x2...the bolded portion is the most important. Steroids are there to assist you and break genetic barriers. If you do not keep your diet/rest/training up while off then yes, your'e going to lose gains
Click to expand...

you can do your best to keep your diet in check, be anal about everything.....take this and that supp and aid etc....and in that way you can keep much of your gains you make with chemical assistance....but its hard to keep up like that, and not add fat or lose muscle and things like that. esp since you pushed your limits just to attain the muscle and conditioning, so your body will fight you hard to go back to "normal". But your best bet is to keep off time and PCT to a minimum and then it will be less likely you will lose much.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
you can do your best to keep your diet in check, be anal about everything.....take this and that supp and aid etc....and in that way you can keep much of your gains you make with chemical assistance....but its hard to keep up like that, and not add fat or lose muscle and things like that. esp since you pushed your limits just to attain the muscle and conditioning, so your body will fight you hard to go back to "normal". But your best bet is to keep off time and PCT to a minimum and then it will be less likely you will lose much.
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Agreed. You will undoubtably lose some weight and muscle. But saying that it will inevitably all be lost no matter what is bull****
 
I'm prolly just being picky and bitchin too much. For some reason I'm not in a very good mood tonight and this thread really set me off
 
ISU152 said:
I'm prolly just being picky and bitchin too much. For some reason I'm not in a very good mood tonight and this thread really set me off
Click to expand...

Ha I hear you man, I just lost $$$ on a hockey game I'm pissed too!

Bottom line and staying on point: He needs to up his carbs big time, 60 grams is the issue, needs to be closer to 400. I think that's the right thread and I'm not mixing them up, if not then sorry my fault.

Anyway, I plan on starting my first cycle, finally, after 30 years, tomorrow, and I plan on keeping 150% of all my gains, maybe even some in the penile area
 
ISU152 said:
Agreed. You will undoubtably lose some weight and muscle. But saying that it will inevitably all be lost no matter what is bull****
Click to expand...

Well that would depend if you are past your genetic limitations. If you are already past the point that you can naturally maintain your muscle mass with your %bf then you will lose all that you have gained if you never cycle back on.

But this has nothing to do with the OP he just needs to eat more.
 
for your first and second forays into AAS or PH's, when you are younger especially, you can probably keep much of the gains of course....but this is more a case of diminishing returns as you get older and do more cycles. the first few are usually the ones you can maintain the most from. Then it gets harder and harder to make gains much less maintain them when off cycle. This is why people always want to be "on" or bridging or doing super duper PCT's or use the newest fangled non-suppressive stuff off cycle.
 
T-Bone said:
jbryand101b, that first picture looks really dated for some reason. Did you really have a brain tumor?. That's scary.
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thats cause it was taken with a disposable camera back in 04, i believe i scanned the picture, so it's always looked that way.

pic was taken in may, found out i had a tumor in june. golf ball size in between my brain stem & cerabellum. I think i have one about a month post tumor, you think im skinny there, you should see that pic. lol.
 
jbryand101b said:
thats cause it was taken with a disposable camera back in 04, i believe i scanned the picture, so it's always looked that way.

pic was taken in may, found out i had a tumor in june. golf ball size in between my brain stem & cerabellum. I think i have one about a month post tumor, you think im skinny there, you should see that pic. lol.
Click to expand...


So I'm guessing everything turned out fine?.
 
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