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Altrock and it's Havoc

altrock

New member
Hey guys.

So I've been lifting since I was 17 (21 almost 22 now) apart from when life got really messed up for a year and a half I've lifted throughout.

Unfortunately a year and a half is more then enough to undo all the good work I had done before.

I got back into it last April and here we are a year later. At my biggest I was 190lbs in December from 150 in April.

I'm down to 180 now which has basically been from changing a few sloppy habits I picked up while bulking. I'm going to start cutting soon and I guess I'm preparing my body for a havoc cycle. I don't want to start using it straight away while I'm still at about 18-20% bodyfat.

I wont be doing a PCT. Epistane from what I have researched is mild and an anti-e in itself. I also know a few guys who have used without the need for a PCT the guy who really got me convinced that I don't need PCT seems fine, plus what he said about nolva etc actually being worse than epistane made sense. Anyway not to debate PCT to much here.

I only intend on doing the one cycle and I'm just looking for someone to tell me whether or not one cycle of something such as havoc could cause future heart problems?

I'll be updating this thread a lot since I rarely see anyone put many pics up of before and afters while using Havoc. Might be useful to have a more detailed log.

Thanks,

Alt
 
Cuz you obviously have NO idea what you are taking, how to take it and most off your not doin a pct??? That's worse than someone sayin they are gonna use novadex xt for a serm.... Your obviously to irresponsible to use anything hormonal.... How bout u do some research!
 
Also, at 21 (or even 22) your natural test levels should be sky high. You shouldnt really need to be using anything besides chicken and steak
 
altrock said:
Interesting assumption. Why do you think that?
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With no pct your asking for trouble , who ever said that taking nova is more worse that taking a mild ph needs to wake up and smell the coffe and stop living in fantasy land with the fairys , nolva can have sides if taken in large doses for extended periods of time but compared to taking a steroid you face sides during use and a whole lot more when you stop .. Bro don't take a steroid if you aint gonna do it properly with a fully laid out pct and support supps for ( liver , blood pressure and so forth) you might be fine on the epi but after its done your body gonna have a whole lot of estregen and wanting to give you boobies and you'll be wondering when you'll be ever getting a woody again... Bro do your self a favour and research what your getting into
 
Nate007 said:
Lol. Fukin peps bro! Even if u get lucky and don't get screwed up without a pct, which is a big risk IMO. U will lose any gains that u got without a proper pct.
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Lol exactly
 
Ok fellas I understand what your saying and I'm not saying that a PCT is a bad thing I'm not that stupid. What I am saying is Epistane is not the same as running certain AAS. It's extremely mild, have any of you actually run it? Because I know guys who have and they haven't used PCT and they didn't have any undesired sides.

Epistane is known for having minor sides I'm sure you all know that if you have done your research on it. I don't think it's remotely the same as using stronger steroids. Yeah shutdown is always going to happen to a degree but I think PCT should only be considered IF 1)The cycle is very suppressive (ie: long & suppressive steroids) 2)The user's HPTA is at risk (eg: the user is old or has a previously damaged HPTA)

I'm young, it's a mild steroid that isn't overly suppressive and the cycle will be short (4 weeks) it isn't like people haven't gone back to homeostasis before without a PCT. Believe me as well I do intend on using stuff to make sure I'm not doing damage to my liver and so on.

I can easily get Nolva if I need it I just don't think when it comes to Epistane that it's likely to be a problem without it.

Take a look at some of the logs of Havoc users... None of these dudes experience any real issues with shutdown or any real sides so that really does beg the question why they bother using Nolva at all.

But yeah I understand where you're coming from but I'm not worried. They sell Havoc to 16 year olds here in shops in every city and guess what? No ones having problems.
 
Bud I suggest you go do some more research
 
jbryand101b said:
What the fcuk.

This can't be real, no one is that stupid.
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Lmfao Jbry X-D I was thinkin the same
 
Typical useless response.

You know what I think... I think you've come along to this forum, read what a load of other guys have said and rather than doing the research you keep parroting you would rather just attack anything that remotely challenges your view.

You do come from America though so this is no surprise, you probably come from a religious background where you are indoctrinated to believe whatever you are told and never question it no matter what proof, logic or common sense dictates. I see it a lot actually. It's what makes Americans so American. No hate you have a great country, but it really is the mark of your people.

You seem to have an inability to look at things objectively and I really suggest that you spend some time thinking about why you behave the way you do, are you actually an individual or just some product of what people have conditioned you to be?

Now back to the subject matter. I suggest you do some research on Epistane. Because I know you haven't.
 
See our rep? Especially Jbry's! We didn't get here for nothin lol
 
Lol that coming from a guy with a post count of 6.
 
what the hell is going on around here lately? kids asking for advice and then talking shi+ when they don't hear what they want.
epi shuts me down hard, screws up my libido and who knows what else. i would never run it without a serm. enjoy your gains while you have them because you won't for long
 
apoxtle said:
what the hell is going on around here lately? kids asking for advice and then talking shi+ when they don't hear what they want.
epi shuts me down hard, screws up my libido and who knows what else. i would never run it without a serm. enjoy your gains while you have them because you won't for long
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hmm. in my thread, I'm planning on running a cycle of epi/havoc. Is there something you'd recommend instead?
 
OP, why are u concerned about heart problems if epi is such a mild ph? That comment alone says u don't know $hit about what your doing! When I read a line "no need to debate pct" my first inclination is, move along nothing to see here. Count yourself lucky these guys are trying to save dem nutz for you!! When ur popping cialis @ 35 to get a boner, REMEMBER THIS THREAD!!
 
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