VARICOCELE...can it effect testosterone?

I wanted to offer some payback as a thanks to this site and threads here on the Vericoele topic. Almost 2 yrs. ago my husband was diagnosed with Vericoele while we were searching for answers to our infertility problem. Turns out he had this condition but never noticed, and it affected the quality of the sperm. I did some online research and came across the Gat Goren technique mentioned on this site. We then contacted the clinic in Israel (only place where it is offered currently) and we're told we had very good chances of reversing the problem and being able to have kids. My husband flew to Israel to have the surgery. It was painless and day surgery that was done in a couple of hrs. 3 days later he was back on his feet pain free. 3 months later I got pregnant. We just celebrated our daughter's first birthday and we are so grateful to have heard about these wonderful doctors and their innovation, and to have found the solution online so quickly.
The procedure was expensive (10K USD) but worth every dime- in particular when you consider the high costs of IVF treatments.
In addition, the procedure is supposed to prevent any further development of V. into prostate cancer. so another bonus. If anyone is looking for a solution we highly reccomend that you go for it. If anyone needs any further info. please PM me.
 
I wanted to offer some payback as a thanks to this site and threads here on the Vericoele topic. Almost 2 yrs. ago my husband was diagnosed with Vericoele while we were searching for answers to our infertility problem. Turns out he had this condition but never noticed, and it affected the quality of the sperm. I did some online research and came across the Gat Goren technique mentioned on this site. We then contacted the clinic in Israel (only place where it is offered currently) and we're told we had very good chances of reversing the problem and being able to have kids. My husband flew to Israel to have the surgery. It was painless and day surgery that was done in a couple of hrs. 3 days later he was back on his feet pain free. 3 months later I got pregnant. We just celebrated our daughter's first birthday and we are so grateful to have heard about these wonderful doctors and their innovation, and to have found the solution online so quickly.
The procedure was expensive (10K USD) but worth every dime- in particular when you consider the high costs of IVF treatments.
In addition, the procedure is supposed to prevent any further development of V. into prostate cancer. so another bonus. If anyone is looking for a solution we highly reccomend that you go for it. If anyone needs any further info. please PM me.

I've never read about any link between prostate cancer and varicocele, and I don't believe one exists. Your post reads like a clinic promotion.
 
if it was as simple as straining too hard almost all men would have vricoceles. I just dont buy it that it is from strain, that argument was correct then high blood pressure alone would be able to cause a varicocele, or just as easily by doing a leg press or bench press. I know that momentary blood pressure can exceed 250/125 when weightlifting, and if that was the case almost every guy in the gym should have a varicocele. I am leaning more towards just genetics/bad luck/mutations....I mean we already know that the simple design of the left testicle vascular connection is bad already
 
if it was as simple as straining too hard almost all men would have vricoceles. I just dont buy it that it is from strain, that argument was correct then high blood pressure alone would be able to cause a varicocele, or just as easily by doing a leg press or bench press. I know that momentary blood pressure can exceed 250/125 when weightlifting, and if that was the case almost every guy in the gym should have a varicocele. I am leaning more towards just genetics/bad luck/mutations....I mean we already know that the simple design of the left testicle vascular connection is bad already

Yeah i guess. For me though i am convinced it was chronic straining. I strained so much you wouldn't believe it. I think we need more research on this problem, like in depth and long term follow up.
 
i had microsurgery yesterday. the procedure went well. of course it takes 3 months or so to figure out how well everything actually went, but the surgery itself went good. dr thompson ligated 7 veins on the left and 5 on the right.

it is not as painful as i thought it would be. the anesthesia was really effective and seamless. and the surgeon injected a local painkiller into my groin while i was still under anesthesia. that lasted about 7 hours after i woke up. there's no way i should have felt so good after surgery. i did not have to start taking hydrocodone pills until about 8 hours after surgery. the painkiller was so good, i was having trouble detecting the ice on my groin. that actually kind of scared me, because i wasn't getting that information out of my groin anymore. one time i went to urinate, and touched my groin with my hand, where the ice has been, and my skin was almost ice cold. i was getting no haptic information from my nerves there, no signals to my brain that my groin and pelvis were really, really cold. fortunately the painkiller has worn off now and i'm getting nerve signals normally.

the incisions are lower than i thought they would be. less than 1 inch above where my dong connects to my pelvis. so the scars won't be too conspicuous. the cuts are pretty far below my belly button. probably not as big, or as high, as the incision for a hernia surgery. the cuts don't looks too big at all. maybe 1 inch or 1.5 inches across.

the wounds are stitched with self-dissolving stitches, then covered in transparent, water proof bandages, so i can shower.

recovery should take a while though. about 1 week until i can move around normally, and probably 3 weeks until i can exercise lightly. i don't even think about masturbating, since mentally i'm pretty defeated by how atrophied my testicles are. but i'm sure not masturbating for 1 month would be a problem for other guys. i haven't ejaculated in 3 weeks leading up to the surgery, and am not allowed to ejaculate for another 3 or 4 weeks while i heal. lots of dudes would probably go crazy if they had to hold back for 2 months.

i can piss normally, and i got an erection this morning coming out of sleep, so most things seem to be working normally. i don't have much bruising. at least not yet. although that might start happening today.

my testicles don't feel hot anymore. the damage from varicoceles seem to have been halted, which was the main point of the surgery. your testicles won't grow back if you're older than 18 or 19, so i expect to have really small testicles forever. although it's probably the case that in 20 years or so, researchers will figure out how to stimulate varicocele-damaged testicles to grow back, since the cells are atrophied, and not dead or dying. the leydig cells and sertoli cells shrink and expand, like fat cells, in response to what's happening in your body. so doctors can probably, in the future, make atrophied testicles expand back to more normal sizes.

Jody: How are you feeling today? Im having Thompson do my surgery this Friday. Have you recovered fine? How are your symtpoms? Im doiing my for the pain and low T. Recent study has shown link:

Research Led by NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell Also Shows That Surgery for the Condition Can Increase Testosterone Levels; Findings Have Wide Implications for Clinical Practice
NEW YORK (Jun 16, 2011)

As many as 15 percent of men have varicoceles, masses of enlarged and dilated veins in the testicles. There is new evidence that varicoceles, long known to be a cause of male infertility, interfere with the production of testosterone — a crucial hormone to maintaining men's health.

There is good news too: Microsurgery can increase testosterone levels in these men. Results of new research by physician-scientists at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center are in a recent edition of BJU International.

"Varicoceles are a much more serious problem than previously thought. Low testosterone causes significant health problems in men. Besides causing low energy, decreased muscle strength and sexual problems, it is a major risk factor for osteopenia/osteoporosis and can also cause changes in cognitive and psychological function, in particular, depression," says Dr. Marc Goldstein, who initiated and led the study. He is the Matthew P. Hardy Distinguished Professor of Reproductive Medicine and a professor of urology at Weill Cornell Medical College and surgeon-in-chief of male reproductive medicine and surgery at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center. He is also senior scientist with the Population Council's Center for Biomedical Research, located on the campus of Rockefeller University.

Varicoceles usually first appear during or shortly after puberty, explains Dr. Goldstein. "The common wisdom has been to leave them alone unless they are causing pain or infertility. But, as a result of our study, I recommend that teenagers and men with serious varicoceles be referred to a male reproductive urologist experienced in microsurgical varicocelectomy. It is much easier to prevent future fertility problems and low testosterone than wait until the damage has already occurred."

Adult men with a varicocele and low testosterone should also consider microsurgery sooner rather than later, says Dr. Goldstein. "The microsurgery techniques available today (and developed, in large part, at NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell) have a very low complication and failure rate compared with the more invasive techniques used in the past. Microsurgery is a good choice for men with low testosterone as there are no oral medications to increase testosterone. And although testosterone shots, pellets and gels are effective, they are not tolerable or appropriate for many patients, such as men trying to conceive, and are certainly less convenient than making your own testosterone."

In the current study, Dr. Goldstein and his colleagues measured the preoperative testosterone levels of 325 men with varicoceles and in 510 men without varicoceles. They found that men at every age with varicoceles had significantly lower testosterone levels (416 vs. 469 ng/dL) than the comparison group. After undergoing microsurgical varicocelectomy, testosterone levels significantly increased in 70 percent of the patients, with a mean increase of 178 ng/dL.

"This research indicates that varicocele surgery, at the least, prevents further deterioration of testosterone production," says Dr. Cigdem Tanrikut, one of the authors of the study. Dr. Tanrikut did a fellowship in male reproductive medicine and microsurgery under Dr. Goldstein. She is currently assistant professor of surgery at Harvard Medical School, a urologist at Massachusetts General Hospital and an adjunct assistant professor of urology and reproductive medicine at Weill Cornell Medical College.
 
Jody: How are you feeling today? Im having Thompson do my surgery this Friday. Have you recovered fine? How are your symtpoms? Im doiing my for the pain and low T. Recent study has shown link:

Rathole, what was your T level?

I had a T test done once and it was 570 however I understand that levels can vary up to 40% from one test to the next. So you'd really need tests done every other day for a couple weeks to get an accurate picture.

I want to get another test done since the last was about 3 years ago though I dread the GP because they just seem so clueless and look at you funny when you ask for a test.
 
Rathole, what was your T level?

I had a T test done once and it was 570 however I understand that levels can vary up to 40% from one test to the next. So you'd really need tests done every other day for a couple weeks to get an accurate picture.

I want to get another test done since the last was about 3 years ago though I dread the GP because they just seem so clueless and look at you funny when you ask for a test.[/QUOT

I had three levels done: 303, 273 and 326. I just say Im in the 300 range. Someone my age (48) should be in the 600 range. My LH was at 8.4 with high limit of 9.3 and my FSH was 14.8 with high reference range of 8. My endo and urologist both said looks like the failure is in the teste and that my hypo/pit are fine. Thats when I discovered the V. Doing the surgery first and hoping/praying for doubling of my T. 7% of the men referenced in the study had a doubling or more of their t levels and a significiant % (I think in the 20% range) had a better than 50% increase. Seems to benefit those in the low normal range the most.
 
I had three levels done: 303, 273 and 326. I just say Im in the 300 range. Someone my age (48) should be in the 600 range. My LH was at 8.4 with high limit of 9.3 and my FSH was 14.8 with high reference range of 8. My endo and urologist both said looks like the failure is in the teste and that my hypo/pit are fine. Thats when I discovered the V. Doing the surgery first and hoping/praying for doubling of my T. 7% of the men referenced in the study had a doubling or more of their t levels and a significiant % (I think in the 20% range) had a better than 50% increase. Seems to benefit those in the low normal range the most.

Do not get any hopes for testosterone increasing at your age. I am 37 now, and had my surgery 9 months ago. I was at ~400 a few years prior to surgery, and started having sex drive problems. Got retested a year ago at 319, then had the surgery and 3 months after the surgery tested at 309, but my estrogen levels were half of what they were. My FSH and LH were both in mid range though, and with yours being that high it sure does sound like your boys are not up to the job anymore. I tried DAA, Clomid, saw momentary increases in test, finally a year after seeing that 309 i went back and got tested again with an endo and just took my first injection last week.

Basically don't expect anything but less pain at this point. I am betting if either of us had gotten that surgery done in our early to mid 20s none of this would matter...
 
Do not get any hopes for testosterone increasing at your age. I am 37 now, and had my surgery 9 months ago. I was at ~400 a few years prior to surgery, and started having sex drive problems. Got retested a year ago at 319, then had the surgery and 3 months after the surgery tested at 309, but my estrogen levels were half of what they were. My FSH and LH were both in mid range though, and with yours being that high it sure does sound like your boys are not up to the job anymore. I tried DAA, Clomid, saw momentary increases in test, finally a year after seeing that 309 i went back and got tested again with an endo and just took my first injection last week.

Basically don't expect anything but less pain at this point. I am betting if either of us had gotten that surgery done in our early to mid 20s none of this would matter...

Thanks. My GP has known about this for years but like most they just say its no big deal. I did not have fertiltiy problems as I have 4 kids, so the docs are like no big deal. Now that Im older and my T is low, it is a big deal. The recent study I have cited to did say that 30% of men did not have an improvement in T levels, 41% increased by less than or equal to 50%, 19% increased between 50-100%, and 10% increased by more than 100%. There was no association between change in t level and age, laterality of varicocele, or varicocele grade. I hoping to be in that top 10% but realize that it may not happen. If not, Im at least hoping to be in the 19%. I'll wait a few months after surgery to see what my levels are. If they are below 500 I will push for some TRT. Wish me luck on my surgery tomorrow!
 
Do not get any hopes for testosterone increasing at your age. I am 37 now, and had my surgery 9 months ago. I was at ~400 a few years prior to surgery, and started having sex drive problems. Got retested a year ago at 319, then had the surgery and 3 months after the surgery tested at 309, but my estrogen levels were half of what they were. My FSH and LH were both in mid range though, and with yours being that high it sure does sound like your boys are not up to the job anymore. I tried DAA, Clomid, saw momentary increases in test, finally a year after seeing that 309 i went back and got tested again with an endo and just took my first injection last week.

Basically don't expect anything but less pain at this point. I am betting if either of us had gotten that surgery done in our early to mid 20s none of this would matter...

I found another study from 2004 which states that the large majority (91.5%) responded favorably to varicocele treatement in terms of t levels, both free an total. Patient age and V grade had no effect on results. As you can see, Im trying to convince myself before the surgery that this will help me. :-)
 
Convince all you want, both urologists I saw said the same that some studies showed it was possible but they had not ever seen it themselves. My symptoms got better, but the overall count remained the same...
 
Convince all you want, both urologists I saw said the same that some studies showed it was possible but they had not ever seen it themselves. My symptoms got better, but the overall count remained the same...

Thanks. Im a glass is half full person, so we will see. Had the surgery today. Not too bad. probably still have the pain killer taking care of pain. Had 12 veins ligated. about 7 hours after the surgry and still have some bleeding. probably shouldnt have gone up and down the stairs the few times I did. Back in bed. Suppose to lay around in bed for 2 days.
 
Three days after surgery. Very little pain. Have not taken any painkillers. Surgery started at 11:15 and was home by 1:30. Swelling not too bad either. Taking it easy this week. Was diagnosed with grade 2 but surgeon stated after surgery probably more like a grade 3.
 
About 2 weeks post surgery. Very little pain. Would recommend the surgery. Now Im hoping my T levels go up. Wont know for a while.
 
i had surgery in april of last year, and tested in july, september and december. basically it seems that in my case after 20 years of testicle damage it was too late for me. my testosterone continued to drop...but my estrogen dropped a LOT more, so i felt better but still not right.basically i had a better test/est ratio, but was still low enough i started trt a month ago.

btw the 6 month range was recommended by my surgeon, he felt that was about enough time for the bloodflow to get all good again and the bad veins to shrink enough.
 
i had surgery in april of last year, and tested in july, september and december. basically it seems that in my case after 20 years of testicle damage it was too late for me. my testosterone continued to drop...but my estrogen dropped a LOT more, so i felt better but still not right.basically i had a better test/est ratio, but was still low enough i started trt a month ago.

btw the 6 month range was recommended by my surgeon, he felt that was about enough time for the bloodflow to get all good again and the bad veins to shrink enough.

Thanks. I'll have to wait and see. Who knows how long I had the varicocele. What gets me is that my doc knew about it and since I had no problems having kids (have four of them) he wasnt concerned about it. I think now that any man with a grade 2 or 3 should have it repaired. My surgery was no big deal. Had I had the surgery years ago the prospects would be better. Had my surgery two weeks ago and my endo wants to do a blood draw in may. Are you doing the gel or shots? How are you feeling after a month of trt? Its only been two weeks but I have noticed some minor improvements. Im hoping at a minumum that my E goes down and my FSH and LH go down and my T stays the same or goes up somewhat. I would be happy if I were in the 19% of the recent study where the T went up 50-100% and I would be very happy if I were in the 10% that it went up more than 100%. The recent study stated that age did not play a factor in results, so I thought that meant the length of having the V didnt matter, but I guess V can happen initially in older men, although if I recall the majority of Vs occur in teenage years. This tie between V and T is interesting and perplexing. I guess everyone is different. Good luck!
 
Thanks. I'll have to wait and see. Who knows how long I had the varicocele. What gets me is that my doc knew about it and since I had no problems having kids (have four of them) he wasnt concerned about it. I think now that any man with a grade 2 or 3 should have it repaired. My surgery was no big deal. Had I had the surgery years ago the prospects would be better. Had my surgery two weeks ago and my endo wants to do a blood draw in may. Are you doing the gel or shots? How are you feeling after a month of trt? Its only been two weeks but I have noticed some minor improvements. Im hoping at a minumum that my E goes down and my FSH and LH go down and my T stays the same or goes up somewhat. I would be happy if I were in the 19% of the recent study where the T went up 50-100% and I would be very happy if I were in the 10% that it went up more than 100%. The recent study stated that age did not play a factor in results, so I thought that meant the length of having the V didnt matter, but I guess V can happen initially in older men, although if I recall the majority of Vs occur in teenage years. This tie between V and T is interesting and perplexing. I guess everyone is different. Good luck!

Typically varicoceles occur during your teenage years, i know mine occurred right at puberty. According to what is taught doctors do not treat them for being in existence, they treat them for pain or for infertility. Obviously infertility was not an issue for you, and I know I dealt with the pain for over 20 years not knowing that the pain wasn't normal. My doctor in high school told me it was a hernia and that was it.

The reason my urologist wanted me to wait 6 months for the labs was so the bloodflow could normalize and the defective veins could shrink and go away.

I do not buy that the age/length of time you have had a varicocele played no factor. There are two theories that I have read as to why a varcicocele causes low test and infertility, one related to poor bloodflow and the lack of removal of waste products in the blood and the other due to temperature being too high. Both of those will cause cumulative damage to the cells of the testicles, and yes they can regenerate and repair, but there is a limit to that, its not like we are lizards that can re-grow a tail every 3 weeks.

Initially after a few weeks I felt better as well, my blood labs came back with similar total testosterone, but 50% reduced estrogen and slightly lower FSH/LH. The better test/est ratio definitely helped me some, but I was still sitting right at the very bottom f the range, or just below depending on the scale. Right now at 4 shots in I feel better than I have in years, more relaxed, more confident, more energy and more sex drive. Interestingly enough I have gained 5 lbs in the past month and I am eating the same as always...
 
But I must say it truly sucks looking at girls wearing sexy things like spandex and tights things that always made me go crazy in the past and having no feeling, that was almost like my reason for living before this, ****kkk

I wish I took advantage of my non stop boners before this, instead I got a dog that ruined my life and I always ran away from girls because I was scared of them, mother ****er


alright no more rants from me, I promise

A few questions:

1) Are you saying you are completely unable to get an erection? Not even morningwood?
2) Did you have ultrasounds done on your testicles?
3) If you had ultrasounds done, were they able to determine how thick your varicocele veins were/are?

ps. yes I know this is an old post, but I'm curious as I have some odd symptoms myself at the moment.
 
Typically varicoceles occur during your teenage years, i know mine occurred right at puberty. According to what is taught doctors do not treat them for being in existence, they treat them for pain or for infertility. Obviously infertility was not an issue for you, and I know I dealt with the pain for over 20 years not knowing that the pain wasn't normal. My doctor in high school told me it was a hernia and that was it.

The reason my urologist wanted me to wait 6 months for the labs was so the bloodflow could normalize and the defective veins could shrink and go away.

I do not buy that the age/length of time you have had a varicocele played no factor. There are two theories that I have read as to why a varcicocele causes low test and infertility, one related to poor bloodflow and the lack of removal of waste products in the blood and the other due to temperature being too high. Both of those will cause cumulative damage to the cells of the testicles, and yes they can regenerate and repair, but there is a limit to that, its not like we are lizards that can re-grow a tail every 3 weeks.

Initially after a few weeks I felt better as well, my blood labs came back with similar total testosterone, but 50% reduced estrogen and slightly lower FSH/LH. The better test/est ratio definitely helped me some, but I was still sitting right at the very bottom f the range, or just below depending on the scale. Right now at 4 shots in I feel better than I have in years, more relaxed, more confident, more energy and more sex drive. Interestingly enough I have gained 5 lbs in the past month and I am eating the same as always...

Thanks. Did you got straight to the shots or did you try the gel? Seems like everyone that has done the gel did not have the best results?
 
I would rather have done gel to be honest as its application more closely matches the daily cycle of peak and trough of testosterone. But I am a firefighter and my work involves me sweating and getting very wet at any time, so having a daily window of several hours where I cannot get wet wasn't possible. The shots are not ideal but they were the best compromise for me. I feel better and in April I will get bloodwork and hopefully things inside will be as good as I feel.
 
My Doc is talking about putting me on Clomid instead of T. Does that make sense? My LH and FSH levels are normal high and I have primary not secondary hypogonadism. Im confused. Any insight appreciated.
 
wow...first post. this was the most comprehensive thread i've found on this. Here is my deal:

i'm a young, fit, active 43. I lift (not heavily), bike (love mtn biking), and eat right overall. Do a bit of social partying. Last May, i thought i'd get my T checked, as i just have not felt my libido was that great. For a long time i just chalked it up to aging, but then i read that was b.s. So my T level came back at 200. I went on internet forums and realized how freaking low that is. Primary care doc couldnt care less, and said "fall into low normal." Finally saw an endocronologist in January, did another test, and T came back at 287. So around the same. He kinda hemmed and hawwed and didn't know what to do, since i was not going to be a candidate for T supplementation (androgel), since me and my wife had been trying to get pregnant. We'd been trying to get preg for like 9 months.

So, i got tired of him and went to a local urology firm that was all about men's health and aging, and really sympathetic to T levels. He looked at my readings, and did my bone density (which came back low due to low T), and said "bam - i'm putting you on Clomid." Clomid, as many of you probably know, is designed to naturally get your FSH/LH to pump more testosterone - so it's not like synthetic T that would shut down my sperm production.

He also had me drop trou and immediately found a varicocele. He had me go do a sperm analysis, and sure enough, my sperm are pretty messed up. I have enough of them, but they are slow and misshapen.

So it seems it's probably a no brainer that i should have the surgery. I've scheduled it already for April 13. Hoping it does the trick on the fertility front, and really hoping it at least gives me a little bump on the T side. I didn't know that a varicocele can affect T as well as sperm.

So i think most guys on here are lifters...but i have a different question, and it's one i'm not sure anyone here can answser - like i said, i love to mountain bike, i'm good and i go hard. It's a passion. How long can i expect to be out of the saddle? obviously you've got sack-on-seat, so i know i'd have to be really careful. I definitely don't want to do undo anything that has been done. I am thinking June 1 i might be able to ease back in? no idea. I'm sure i'll be gunshy too.

As for lifting, how long until you can pick that up again?

As for the Clomid, i'm on 50mg, every other day. Started last wednesday, so only 3 pills so far. Have no idea if it's doing anything - feel nothing from it.

But heck, i could have had low T for a looong time, as well as this varicocele for a looong time, so maybe i need a looong time to repair...

Anyway, would look forward to any advice from recent surgery patients, anyone on Clomid, and anyone kinda similar to my situation...

Could not believe the amount of stuff on here going back years....
 
You who are worried about your testosterone levels, i suggest you check out the studies i posted earlier. You have nothing to be worried about.

In fact here is a study that was conducted just last month


ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21341585

It may just be a coincidence in this case, but the other studies i posted showed zero correlation between varicocele and testosterone. In fact most people experience they have lower testostorne because they believe they do, due to the varicocele.

Personally i do not want a surgeon cutting near my balls, there is too much space for human error. I will stand by and await medical help to regenerate collapsed valves


But have you seen the studies that say the EXACT opposite? And my urologist said he sees between a 50 point and 100 point jump in T levels for post operative varicocele guys. I'm going with his expertise.
 
But have you seen the studies that say the EXACT opposite? And my urologist said he sees between a 50 point and 100 point jump in T levels for post operative varicocele guys. I'm going with his expertise.

Reading these latest posts makes me uncomfortable.

I have bilateral varicoceles, probably grade II on right, and maybe grade II or III on left.

Surgery scares the hell out of me. I'm in the UK, and I don't think they do the cutting edge varicocele microsurgery.

What I am looking at is testicles which often feel small and soft, and a general feeling of being under the weather.

I think varicocele causes cumulative damage to testicular function.

I'm REALLY nervous + scared about letting anyone snip around my testicles. Better the devil you know... I know how I feel now, but there is the great unknown of having surgery and possibly ending up with more pain and discomfort than I have at present. There is also the risk of an accident during surgery leaving me possibly with a severed testicular artery or nerve.

Are any guys on here in the UK and have experience of NHS surgery for varicocele?

My NHS GPs say varicoceles are harmless (male doctor) and the other (female doctor) said ''Oh but you have two testicles and the only reason they'd operate would be if you couldn't have kids.'' They have not a clue.

What I fear is leaving the varicocele as it is and experiencing a progressive testicular dysfunction and then when I am older I'll feel like crap because I have low T yet because I am not well off, I can't afford T therapy and I think you have to be very low in T before the NHS would consider giving you T therapy. It's a scary future.
 
time off depends on the type of surgery and how you heal, I was back at work in a week, but i am not in a desk job, I am a firefighter, i had to spend a month on the ambulance though. i was back in the gym in two weeks and back to lifting like normal around 4 weeks. i had the laparascopic procedure though, so the incisions were very small.

as far as being scared about surgery....i found it more scary to think about my nuts slowly dying off due to the cumulative damage from the varicoceles. not doing anything WILL make it worse, surgery will stop it or if you are lucky reverse it some.

as far as recovery...the research says you can get test levels back and have a much better chance of conception. the urologist who did my surgery has been out of med school for 16 years, and has been named as a top urologist in the city, region and state multiple times, he said in his experience it is possible to get test levels back, but don't count on it, and don't get the surgery with that in mind, get it to reduce pain and stop the process where its at. the other urologist who i hated and did not do my surgery said the same as well.
 
your doctors are not well educated. research says that they CAN be damaging, and the damage is progressive, but the medical treatment via surgery should be done for pain alleviation as the research does not always show improvement in anything else.

Reading these latest posts makes me uncomfortable.

I have bilateral varicoceles, probably grade II on right, and maybe grade II or III on left.

Surgery scares the hell out of me. I'm in the UK, and I don't think they do the cutting edge varicocele microsurgery.

What I am looking at is testicles which often feel small and soft, and a general feeling of being under the weather.

I think varicocele causes cumulative damage to testicular function.

I'm REALLY nervous + scared about letting anyone snip around my testicles. Better the devil you know... I know how I feel now, but there is the great unknown of having surgery and possibly ending up with more pain and discomfort than I have at present. There is also the risk of an accident during surgery leaving me possibly with a severed testicular artery or nerve.

Are any guys on here in the UK and have experience of NHS surgery for varicocele?

My NHS GPs say varicoceles are harmless (male doctor) and the other (female doctor) said ''Oh but you have two testicles and the only reason they'd operate would be if you couldn't have kids.'' They have not a clue.

What I fear is leaving the varicocele as it is and experiencing a progressive testicular dysfunction and then when I am older I'll feel like crap because I have low T yet because I am not well off, I can't afford T therapy and I think you have to be very low in T before the NHS would consider giving you T therapy. It's a scary future.
 
I can deal with the pain. The discomfort is just that, discomfort, and I would HAPPILY live with it IF I KNEW that T levels were not being adversely affected. I am not concerned about fertility per se, although that is a key indicator of testicular function. I am more concerned about T levels because that is what affects me as a man from a day to day basis in such simple things as how you feel about yourself, your energy levels, mental acuity etc...

If I was to get surgery, it would be to prevent any further testicular dysfunction, particularly concerning T production.

My one big fear is that after the surgery, I could end up worse off than I was before. One of Aesop's Fables is The Dog and its Reflection. He has a bone in his mouth but sees his reflection in the pond of a dog with an even bigger bone, so he drops his bone... into the water and loses it in the hope of getting a better one. I have testicles now and they appear to be working. How well is debatable, however I will have a T blood test in June which will be revealing. However, surgery is not to be undertaken lightly, and I'd fear that I'd perhaps be left in more discomfort or pain than I have at present, or worse still, that the surgeon might damage or accidentally snip my testicular artery. I also wonder how the remaining, smaller veins would be able to pick up the slack from larger veins which were apparently not up to the job. I do wonder about that. I also wonder what experience UK (NHS) doctors have with this procedure. I think American doctors have more experience and are more inclined to operate on varicoceles.
 
you can be logical or not, it is your choice. there are different techniques of the surgery and you can always back out if you do not trust the skill or knowledge of the doctor. that's your choice too. research going back at least 37 years shows there is cumulative damage to your testicles, and other research shows that the testosterone levels start making more significant drops in the mans 30s when the damage has been cumulative for ~20 years. there are no sure things, but for most guys the damaged veins are ligated, and the remaining veins pick up and the ligated veins eventually disappear. some guys get more varicoceles some don't. I waited too long on my surgery, my testosterone was in the 300 range before surgery and 9 months post surgery. i felt better with lower estrogen from the surgery...but it was too late for me. you can wait and be sure that it stays low and then have to deal with hormone therapy under NHS....or do the surgery now and hopefully put a stop to it and maybe even reverse it.
 
What age were you when u got it done?

Did you get it done on NHS?

What I hate is how cavalier the doctors are about it. They just smile and say ''It's harmless.''

I wish I had the money to go to America and get the thing done at Cornell under Dr. Goldstein. But I am not a wealthy man.

All I can do is go to the doc in June (when I have time) and get a blood test and then ask to be referred to a urologist with a view to being evaluated for surgery. I'm not sure what rights I have. The doctor may refuse to refer me and then I will have a problem.

I'd love to hear frm any guys who had this done under the NHS in the UK or are considering it.
 
I am not in Britain (though my wife was born in Newport, Wales and father in law is a British subject). Your doctors do not have any incentive to work harder, or learn more. They get paid the same regardless. I would get to the urologist, and tell them your varicocele hurts like hell, tell them most days it feels like you just took a good punt to the nads, do not worry about hormone levels and so on. Get it fixed, and focus on the pain. Many medical texts in the USA still say that you ONLY repair a varicocele for pain, that it is harmless etc, but that is also information that is 30+ years out of date. Don't even worry about blood tests, just use that pain of a varicocele to get it all done. Once you get to the urologist you can worry about the type of surgery. My first doc was going to do a microsurgical subingual surgery, but he was an arrogant douche bag, so I went to a second who did the old school cut it all off (artery and all) and he did not feel that was right for me due to age, and needing a fast recovery. The third urologist did the laparascopic procedure, and it has very fast recovery. I needed that so as to not burn vacation or sick time, and it worked for me. My test levels never came back up, but estrogen dropped and now i am on shots...but my nuts do not hurt, and the mass of veins is gone as well. I am older though, so I did not have high hopes to protect much...
 
Artery and all? I could do that myself.

What's the deal with estrogen - what is the dynamic whereby it increases? I want to know the science behind that as I've read a lot aobut varicocele but never came across anything about estrogen being elevated.
 
I didnt have elevated estrogen, i just saw it reduce to a level that was far more favorable ratio of testosterone to estrogen. Enough that i could feel the difference.

I wish more information was published about varicoceles because for me, i think it is a more serious problem than the medical world thinks. I also think that it is more a result of big pharma driven medicine...
 
With all due respect to Dr. Goldstein, i would take his words with a grain of salt. I have been checking up on varicocele for the past 3 years and strangely, all studies conducted that relate varicocele to low testosterone levels AND improvement post surgery just happens to have his name on it as an author. Keep in mind that he makes money and loads of it from correcting peoples varicoceles, so for him there is no harm in making mountains out of molehills.

Im not saying that hes lying, but i think the study results speak for themselves. There appears to be an increase in testosterone post surgery in some cases, that averages to approx 50ng/dl. This increase, even if it is substantial and not temporary, is nothing worth thinking about. It wont make you leaner, it wont help you build more muscle, it wont do squat. This is all considering that the average testosterone levels for a young-middle aged man is 600 and that most people who report their levels on these pages seem to be barely above 350.

ALCAR has shown to improve fertility during administration period in men with varicocele, it has also shown to improve LH sensitivity causing an increase in testosterone in ALL men. If people are that worried about it, go and purchase some, thats what i do.

I got a grade 2/3 varicocele on left side that is causing pain on occasion, for instance after fapping. Personally i dont think this is reason enough to have someone cut the veins leading to my balls. Specially considering that there have been reports in a permanent DROP in T levels post surgery, and even more pain(as some here have reported).

If you are a 30+ aged man and considering surgery because you have low T levels then **** it, stop beating around the bush and get some HRT legally or not. Its really not a big deal, just one shot a weak and with a doctor you will have full control of your hormones. You'll feel like a thousand bucks and plus a life long HRT treatment is plenty cheaper than whipping out 40-50 thousand dollars just for a surgery that probably wont do squat anyway.
 
Reporting back in, had embolization a year ago. No reoccurrence, and I don't feel any different really. I guess I could have just prevented complications further down the road.
 
had varicocele surgery yesterday. certainly sore and hobbling around today. obviously gonna take it easy for a bit. Doc said no lifting/heavy exertion for two weeks. Will miss my workouts.

me: low T levels, and messed up swimmers from the varicocele.

hope this surgery works to firstly help my fertility, and secondly get a bump in T. My urologist said normal is a 100 point increase. Not huge, but something.

Anyway, would love to hear more about post surgery advice (what to eat, how often to ice, etc).

i know amino acids are great post surgery. Especially glutamine.
 
trt in uk

So does anyone know how you get TRT in the UK? The NHS has very low prescribing criteria. I'm not sure you can legally obtain T in the UK beyond getting it prescribed. It's not something I'd want to be messing around with on my own without a doctor to supervise it.
 
had varicocele surgery yesterday. certainly sore and hobbling around today. obviously gonna take it easy for a bit. Doc said no lifting/heavy exertion for two weeks. Will miss my workouts.

me: low T levels, and messed up swimmers from the varicocele.

hope this surgery works to firstly help my fertility, and secondly get a bump in T. My urologist said normal is a 100 point increase. Not huge, but something.

Anyway, would love to hear more about post surgery advice (what to eat, how often to ice, etc).

i know amino acids are great post surgery. Especially glutamine.


also, hoping to ward of psychological issues from this as much as possible. right now, can't even imagine sex with my wife, or even getting horny. i guess i should just really not stress about it, and know that for like a month, i will totally be "on the shelf." i guess i'll see.

Day 3. Definitely sore, no doubt. This isn't terrible, but it's no picnic.
 
microsurgery i guess? where he "ties off" the veins. it wasn't the embolization. He went in just above my groin area, lower lower abdomen i guess. Have not had the courage to look under the bandage yet, but i'm guessing a 1.5 inch slit. It's really swollen at the incision site, looks like i have a hernia. I've tried to ice, but it still got pretty big. Looked at my scrotum today. It's normally really loose, and hung low (maybe because of the varicocele?), but now it's super tight. Looks like where the veins are/were, there is bruising. Have not totally inspected to see if i can see the varicocele - and i'm definitely not gonna feel around there yet.

wondering when i can/should start walking/getting out. I'm not used to sitting around multiple days in a row on gorgeous spring days. Ugh. Guess i should just listen to my body and take it from there.
 
new to this forum, v4 - quickly looked at some of your posts, and it sounds like you had the procedure? when? how is it going now?

i'm a huge mountain biker and i love to hit the gym to lift, and i really hope i'm not gun shy now. Maybe i should expect to be a little gun shy at first.
 
Definitely listen to your doctor. You don't want to undo or make worse whatever good he has done. Better to be safe than sorry.

Did you have the surgery done in the USA? I'm in the UK so just wondering.
 
he just said no heavy lifting/exertion for two weeks...

i'm in the US, had it done here via a good urologist that specializes in low T, fertility, and ED problems.
 
I had the laparascopic procedure. Much faster healing than the microsurgical procedure. Iced for the first 18 hours, back at work in 5 days though i was limited to an ambulance for 3 weeks, doc didnt want me on a fire engine. I followed dr's orders exactly, its just not worth the cost to screw it up for one workout. Mine is about a year old now, i had aching for about 6 months, and by 9 months the mass of veins was gone.
 
I had the laparascopic procedure. Much faster healing than the microsurgical procedure. Iced for the first 18 hours, back at work in 5 days though i was limited to an ambulance for 3 weeks, doc didnt want me on a fire engine. I followed dr's orders exactly, its just not worth the cost to screw it up for one workout. Mine is about a year old now, i had aching for about 6 months, and by 9 months the mass of veins was gone.

So is all the discomfort gone?
 
I had the laparascopic procedure. Much faster healing than the microsurgical procedure. Iced for the first 18 hours, back at work in 5 days though i was limited to an ambulance for 3 weeks, doc didnt want me on a fire engine. I followed dr's orders exactly, its just not worth the cost to screw it up for one workout. Mine is about a year old now, i had aching for about 6 months, and by 9 months the mass of veins was gone.


nice...yeah, i had it friday. friday, saturday, and sunday i pretty much bummed out and felt pretty damn sore.

still sore, but nothing crazy. went out and walked about a mile. made me feel good...making sure i wear the jock strap they gave me.
 
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