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Nolva, Clomid, or Torem????

bcazo

bcazo

Well-known member
I Just started a 5 week cycle of Epi. Which SERM would you use and at what dose? I will be buying the liquid form of whichever one I go with. Here is what I'm planning on doing.

Epi-strong 45/45/60/60/60
Cel Cycle support 8/8/8/8/8
Forma- 6/6/6/6/6

PCT
post cycle support- per bottle 4 weeks
Forma- 0/0/8/8
SERM????
HCGenerate- per bottle 4 weeks
DAA 4 weeks

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!
 
I have only used nolva but I'm gonna use torem at end of current cycle. Heard recovery is alot faster so gonna give it a go. I also have nolva just in case or I might use both.
 
I like clomid more than nolva and I think the research supports this decision but that is up to you. With something like Epi I don't see a need for nolva as gyno is not really a risk unless you run no AI at all. BTW, you have Form for two weeks with no taper down, why? Just curious because I have never seen it ran that short a time or without a taper to stop estro rebound.

No input on Torem though I hear it works well for many.
 
Clomid is best for restarting T production but it has some down falls in other areas. Nolva is typcailly considered better than clomid and now as of recently (past few yrs) we have torem.


Ive only used clomid in the past, it has always done me well. Any of the 3 will do you good.





BTW, I think you will be fine without the post cycle support and DAA. HCGenerate/Forma/Serm is all you would need, but thats just my opinion......
 
I've seen others not start Forma until the first or second week or PCT when using a SERM? I could run it 8/8/6/4? Any other suggestions? I was also thinking of dropping the post cycle support and saving it for my next run. Any thoughts on running the CEL cycle support in my PCT too? Is it nessecary or over kill?
 
bcazo said:
I've seen others not start Forma until the first or second week or PCT when using a SERM? I could run it 8/8/6/4? Any other suggestions? I was also thinking of dropping the post cycle support and saving it for my next run. Any thoughts on running the CEL cycle support in my PCT too? Is it nessecary or over kill?
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PCS killed my estrogen level and my libido was crushed, it is fine but I would start it in week 2.5/3 just to be safe. If I run an AI it is typically Erase or Aromasin and I start them right away. I swear I read that Formestane during the first few weeks of PCT is not ideal but I cannot back that up at this time, it was a long time ago I ran across it. If you do run the formestane, I would do it for 4-6 weeks starting it when you already are and taper it down like 10/8/6/4/4 or something like that. By week three test is going to be kicking pretty well and you will start to need an AI as it will be aromatizing and estro rebound may become a risk as well.

Whichever SERM you decide on, make sure you dose it appropriately. If you are really shut down, like I am right now (though I feel better daily thanks to Clomid), I dose my Clomid 100 for 5 days, 75 through the end of week 2, then 50/50 for 3 and 4. That is aggressive and for some causes sides (I am a moody SOB right now, no need to sugar coat it), it just depends on how fast you want to come back. I hear Torem is good stuff but never ran it if you want to try it; not 100% on dosing though.
 
oufinny said:
PCS killed my estrogen level and my libido was crushed, it is fine but I would start it in week 2.5/3 just to be safe. If I run an AI it is typically Erase or Aromasin and I start them right away. I swear I read that Formestane during the first few weeks of PCT is not ideal but I cannot back that up at this time, it was a long time ago I ran across it. If you do run the formestane, I would do it for 4-6 weeks starting it when you already are and taper it down like 10/8/6/4/4 or something like that. By week three test is going to be kicking pretty well and you will start to need an AI as it will be aromatizing and estro rebound may become a risk as well.

Whichever SERM you decide on, make sure you dose it appropriately. If you are really shut down, like I am right now (though I feel better daily thanks to Clomid), I dose my Clomid 100 for 5 days, 75 through the end of week 2, then 50/50 for 3 and 4. That is aggressive and for some causes sides (I am a moody SOB right now, no need to sugar coat it), it just depends on how fast you want to come back. I hear Torem is good stuff but never ran it if you want to try it; not 100% on dosing though.
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Thanks again!! So I think this will be my new plan:

Epi-strong 45/45/60/60/60
Cel Cycle support 8/8/8/8/8
Forma- 6/6/6/6/6

PCT
Erase 3/2/2/1
Nolva 40/40/20/20
HCGenerate- per bottle 4 weeks
DAA 4 weeks

What do you guys think now??
 
bcazo said:
Thanks again!! So I think this will be my new plan:

Epi-strong 45/45/60/60/60
Cel Cycle support 8/8/8/8/8
Forma- 6/6/6/6/6

PCT
Erase 3/2/2/1
Nolva 40/40/20/20
HCGenerate- per bottle 4 weeks
DAA 4 weeks

What do you guys think now??
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You don't need that Form during cycle, especially with Epi at that dose. I actually question if you will be able to maintain it that high but everyone is different of course so if it works for you, rock it! Do the Forma in week 2 or 3 of PCT like you have lined out. Maybe add in a few weeks where you go to 4 pumps then 2 pumps so it would make for a 6 week run (should be plenty in the bottle). Everyone else looks good, I like that you are dosing your SERM like that. I know you want to use the least possible but many can't get blood work or don't so you just don't know. I would rather go with a higher dose than end up shutdown like I was after my first cycle... bad idea!
 
oufinny said:
You don't need that Form during cycle, especially with Epi at that dose. I actually question if you will be able to maintain it that high but everyone is different of course so if it works for you, rock it! Do the Forma in week 2 or 3 of PCT like you have lined out. Maybe add in a few weeks where you go to 4 pumps then 2 pumps so it would make for a 6 week run (should be plenty in the bottle). Everyone else looks good, I like that you are dosing your SERM like that. I know you want to use the least possible but many can't get blood work or don't so you just don't know. I would rather go with a higher dose than end up shutdown like I was after my first cycle... bad idea!
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I'm running the forma because during my last cycle of katana 3 weeks in my nipples got soar! Started forma and in 2 days gone!!! Guess I'm afraid it may happen again. I hear you on the Epi dose my goal is 5 weeks if not I'll cut it to 4 have to see how it goes. I'm 4 days in and starting to get that so good on feeling!!!
 
Also this is kinda jacked advice but a glass of merlot every night really makes a difference for me on cycle. I'll see how it goes in pct.
 
bcazo said:
I'm running the forma because during my last cycle of katana 3 weeks in my nipples got soar! Started forma and in 2 days gone!!! Guess I'm afraid it may happen again. I hear you on the Epi dose my goal is 5 weeks if not I'll cut it to 4 have to see how it goes. I'm 4 days in and starting to get that so good on feeling!!!
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Nice man, just limit your forma dose as needed, Epi is a strong AI on its own. I have read some people have issues with Epi aggravating gyno which seems counter-intuitive but that does not mean it doesn't happen. Based on what you said about your previous cycles, I would run it too just as a precaution, I didn't know that or missed it in a post above.
 
mugen112 said:
Also this is kinda jacked advice but a glass of merlot every night really makes a difference for me on cycle. I'll see how it goes in pct.
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Outside of wine/alcohol thinning the blood temporarily, I don't see the benefit here except some extra liver stress. What is your logic, you have me curious now.
 
oufinny said:
Outside of wine/alcohol thinning the blood temporarily, I don't see the benefit here except some extra liver stress. What is your logic, you have me curious now.
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I have to agree always thought alcohol was a big no no for us on cycle..
 
bcazo said:
I have to agree always thought alcohol was a big no no for us on cycle..
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Here is my take on it and I am just waiting for all these people to flame me. I have always assumed (rightly or wrongly) 95% of people have a drink, a beer or something on cycle, life gets in the way and not participating in many social situations raises way too many questions people don't want to answer. Can you blame them? Methyls are not good for you, we all know this but the toxicity is dose dependent and the liver is very resilient. If it wasn't, how would our liver values come back to normal in short order? Last time I had them checked after a brutal 5.5 week bridge cycle, they were BARELY out of range (yes, cycle support does make a difference, run it!). So I say all that to say this, having a drink on cycle infrequently isn't going to do jack squat to you and I even did this while on tren. Typically it does not fit into your macros as it is wasted calories but you know what, life is short and sometimes I want a freaking beer.

That is my take. I can hear the flamers now, if you aren't totally committed you shouldn't cycle in the first place, blah blah blah. Of course that is their opinion and I respect it just don't force it onto people to feel better about yourself. And my last tidbit that I will share and I know this will really get under some peoples skin: all those guys that say they never drink on cycle, I would venture a guess 50+% are totally full of ish. They do, they just lie to themselves and yell at people instead of being honest with themselves. There is my totally uneducated psychology lesson of the day. Hope your cycle goes well, start a log, I'd like to follow along and will send some others to your log as well.
 
French paradox baby! Told u it was jacked but I'm down with it. Just did a search Pinot noir has the most Rez.

And katana ain't methylated :P
 
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