2610jimbuck
New member
Would you buy Cycle Support or would a combo of liveraid( liver tabs) , hawthorn berry, and milk thistle be sufficient? Ill be starting a 4 week d-zine cycle of 30 mg/day. PCT already taken care of.
Dymethazine (D-zine)
- Thread starter 2610jimbuck
- Start date
2610jimbuck
New member
But would milk thistle, hawthorn berry, and liveraid (generic liver health pills) be sufficient on their own starting 2 weeks before cycle up until i begin pct?
Blergs
Well-known member
i like forged liver support for liver. or just NAC
Blergs
Well-known member
you dont need any of it, but will it help? yes.
if you get what im getting at.
Blergs
Well-known member
there is NOT set answer is what im saying.
but i would rec a test base with ANY oral cycle.
here is why:
DADAWG:
Oral cycles
every day it seems like i read another ORAL ONLY thread on 1 board or another , dbol only appears to be the favorite sure fire method to look good for spring break.
1st off i would like to say that theres is nothing wrong with dbol , it definately has its place . the same goes for var , drol , halo , tbol , etc. .
heres the problem with oral only cycles . the average man needs 100-200 mg a week of injected test if hes on hormone replacement therapy . if you start using steroids your natural test will shut down , even on var so you will lose the benefit of the test when you cycle.that means you will have to take in that much steroids JUST TO BREAK EVEN.on top of that when you come of that oral / dbol you will be shut down and will take several weeks to recover so you will lose there as well.
thats not a problem on injectable cycles because you will be taking anywhere from 2-5 times as much hormones or more than your body naturally produces . YOU CAN NOT DO THAT USING JUST ORAL STEROIDS. the health effects of massive oral cycles make running them just plain stupid and dangerous.
but i would rec a test base with ANY oral cycle.
here is why:
DADAWG:
Oral cycles
every day it seems like i read another ORAL ONLY thread on 1 board or another , dbol only appears to be the favorite sure fire method to look good for spring break.
1st off i would like to say that theres is nothing wrong with dbol , it definately has its place . the same goes for var , drol , halo , tbol , etc. .
heres the problem with oral only cycles . the average man needs 100-200 mg a week of injected test if hes on hormone replacement therapy . if you start using steroids your natural test will shut down , even on var so you will lose the benefit of the test when you cycle.that means you will have to take in that much steroids JUST TO BREAK EVEN.on top of that when you come of that oral / dbol you will be shut down and will take several weeks to recover so you will lose there as well.
thats not a problem on injectable cycles because you will be taking anywhere from 2-5 times as much hormones or more than your body naturally produces . YOU CAN NOT DO THAT USING JUST ORAL STEROIDS. the health effects of massive oral cycles make running them just plain stupid and dangerous.
Blergs
Well-known member
Forged Liver Support
First N-acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC). This is what is given to poison victims to protect their livers. It has been well accepted by the medical community as a very powerful antioxidant. It should go without saying that antioxidants are crucial in preventing damage done to the body by free radicals. Free radicals often arise when compounds are detoxified. This is often the case during a designer supplement cycle. What often isn't talked about is that our bodies make some antioxidants, and others we can only get from the foods we eat, especially fruits and vegetables.
While most of these antioxidants have not yet been classified as essential vitamins, it may only be that there have not been studies to support this finding. Who knows how much of those antioxidants you may not be getting enough of which can prevent disease, ex: cancer, old age.....or liver damage while running a liver stressing cycle.
In addition to NAC Forged Liver Support has several other powerful antioxidants that have been studied specifically for their beneficial effect on the liver. Milk Thistle has been demonstrated in studies to reduce liver inflammation and improve liver function in patients with liver disease. Another antioxidant included is the herb Astragalus, a type of bean that has been used in Chinese medicine for over 2,000 years. Among its many curative properties, the Chinese used this for treating the liver. Research in the past decade has focused on its effect on the liver, fighting viral infections, and its role in the treatment of cancer. Interestingly, this extract has been shown to prevent the shortening of telomeres, which are the caps on DNA that keep cells young.
Next up is Phosphatidylcholine, which is another big gun supplement for the liver. This is a great bioactive form of the essential B vitamin Choline. This supplement is a key component of cell membranes as well as the molecules that transport fat out of the liver. High concentrations are found in the brain and liver. As a result it has been used as support in Alzheimer's, depression, and other brain disorders. Deficiency in the diet can lead to liver disease, and supplementation is used for individuals with liver disease or damage. Regulating cholesterol levels in the body is a large function of the liver. So to provide extra support Forged Liver Support has red yeast rice, which contains chemicals similar to those in cholesterol medications for reducing cholesterol levels in the body.
Forged Liver Support is the ultimo All-In-One liver support and liver function supplement. Forged Liver Support covers it all.
First N-acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC). This is what is given to poison victims to protect their livers. It has been well accepted by the medical community as a very powerful antioxidant. It should go without saying that antioxidants are crucial in preventing damage done to the body by free radicals. Free radicals often arise when compounds are detoxified. This is often the case during a designer supplement cycle. What often isn't talked about is that our bodies make some antioxidants, and others we can only get from the foods we eat, especially fruits and vegetables.
While most of these antioxidants have not yet been classified as essential vitamins, it may only be that there have not been studies to support this finding. Who knows how much of those antioxidants you may not be getting enough of which can prevent disease, ex: cancer, old age.....or liver damage while running a liver stressing cycle.
In addition to NAC Forged Liver Support has several other powerful antioxidants that have been studied specifically for their beneficial effect on the liver. Milk Thistle has been demonstrated in studies to reduce liver inflammation and improve liver function in patients with liver disease. Another antioxidant included is the herb Astragalus, a type of bean that has been used in Chinese medicine for over 2,000 years. Among its many curative properties, the Chinese used this for treating the liver. Research in the past decade has focused on its effect on the liver, fighting viral infections, and its role in the treatment of cancer. Interestingly, this extract has been shown to prevent the shortening of telomeres, which are the caps on DNA that keep cells young.
Next up is Phosphatidylcholine, which is another big gun supplement for the liver. This is a great bioactive form of the essential B vitamin Choline. This supplement is a key component of cell membranes as well as the molecules that transport fat out of the liver. High concentrations are found in the brain and liver. As a result it has been used as support in Alzheimer's, depression, and other brain disorders. Deficiency in the diet can lead to liver disease, and supplementation is used for individuals with liver disease or damage. Regulating cholesterol levels in the body is a large function of the liver. So to provide extra support Forged Liver Support has red yeast rice, which contains chemicals similar to those in cholesterol medications for reducing cholesterol levels in the body.
Forged Liver Support is the ultimo All-In-One liver support and liver function supplement. Forged Liver Support covers it all.
2610jimbuck
New member
Thanks man. I think alot of people think injections are alot worse for you than pills because they involve needles and such, but in reality thats not the case.
jbryand101b
Banned
some of what blergs is saying is right. some of it isn't.
the natural test is why so many feel so good on sd when they first start. the power of sd plus their natural test is all win.
but another reason you get shut down so quick on orals like sd, or dimethazine, epistane is because they are so much more potent in anabolic/androgenic aspects.
who knows how little you would need of w/e oral steroid to break even.
but the data clearly shows, the anabolic/androgenic power of modified versions of testosterone, dht, and nor testosterone are much much more potent than than the natural hormone.
the best option is of course to try to at least keep testosterone levels at a normal range, while adding in the muscle building power of another more potent compound.
there are many ways to do this, both legally, and illegally. will illegal injectables be less expensive than legal ph's to test, yea, probably.
I cant speak for everyone, but i know i would love to add injectable test to every cycle, or even just on it's own. but im not as of right now, maybe someday. until then, i'll have to pay the cost of othes less effective methods.
the natural test is why so many feel so good on sd when they first start. the power of sd plus their natural test is all win.
but another reason you get shut down so quick on orals like sd, or dimethazine, epistane is because they are so much more potent in anabolic/androgenic aspects.
who knows how little you would need of w/e oral steroid to break even.
but the data clearly shows, the anabolic/androgenic power of modified versions of testosterone, dht, and nor testosterone are much much more potent than than the natural hormone.
the best option is of course to try to at least keep testosterone levels at a normal range, while adding in the muscle building power of another more potent compound.
there are many ways to do this, both legally, and illegally. will illegal injectables be less expensive than legal ph's to test, yea, probably.
I cant speak for everyone, but i know i would love to add injectable test to every cycle, or even just on it's own. but im not as of right now, maybe someday. until then, i'll have to pay the cost of othes less effective methods.
2610jimbuck
New member
Does anyone else have any input on my liver protection plan? I will be supplementing with milk thistle, hawthorn berry (blood pressure), and liveraid INSTEAD of purchasing a cycle support supp.
MRbrace
New member
I have taken d-zine before I liked the results quite a bit..should be okay with those supps for your liver, I personally like liver fix by myogenix or liv.52 because it works wonderfully and its super cheap
2610jimbuck
New member
Thanks, i appreciate everyone's input
drexel
New member
This is wisdom. Why do guys start to feel like crap after a few weeks on sdrol? Because they're shutting down. By adding some test you're essentially putting yourself on TRT for the duration of the shutdown, which in turn means you can use less of the oral compound, which means less load on your liver. (Of course the problem is that the reason lots of guys turn to orals/PH/DS in the first place is because they don't want to mess with illegal stuff and/or injections.)
For liver supports with a methyl (any methyl), I wouldn't trust anything but TUDCA/UDCA at this point. Go read the post on Antaeus Labs' blog about methyl toxicity to learn why. The $20 or whatever extra you'll have to spend to get Liver Longer vs other supports is way cheaper than an ER visit.
jason79
New member
HPTA suppression probably contributes toward the feelings of general malaise while on Sd, but it's not the whole story. SD is fairly toxic and puts a good deal of stress on bodily systems (especially liver), and this also likely contributes to feeling unwell while on SD. It's also worth noting that using test won't mitigate the toxicity of a hepatotoxic oral. It will help with side effects resulting from suppression but that's it. The SD or whatever will still mess with your liver, bloood lipids and other systems. Actually the test will further mess up your blood lipids if dosed beyond trt levels (like many people do).
Liver supps might not hurt but people shouldn't get into the habit of thinking that they're 100% protected from the hepatotoxic effects of something like SD just because they're on a support supp regimen. It might help a little but you should still expect unhealthy side effects.