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Arginine and Ephedrine, opposites?

zoomz

New member
On my training days I use to take Arginine+HMB+Cee pre and post along with an ECA stack; just want to confirm that what i read is true that Arginine and Ephedrine oppose cancel each other. So to be safe I just take green tea, tyrosine and caffeine for a boost when i train and on off days then do the ECA but don't take Arginine; does this make sense? Appreciated, great forum.
 
Yep, arginine stimulates nitric oxide production which is a vasodilater or expands the blood vessels. Ephedrine is a vasoconstricter.
 
yes they are opposites in that ephedrine actually works the way its said to and Arginine, if it has the NO effect its claimed to (which it hopefully doesn't or people are likely damaging themselves taking it), likely only exhibits an ergogenic effect through a mechanism closely related to creatine. Someone prove me wrong w/pubmed!
 
Cold said:
Yep, arginine stimulates nitric oxide production which is a vasodilater or expands the blood vessels. Ephedrine is a vasoconstricter.
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You would be more accurate to say arginine is a precursor to NO
 
400runner said:
what do you mean arginine damages the body?
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I never said that. I said NO. NO is highly reactive, autocatalytically forms other free redicals (both ROS and RNS) and is one of the bodies bactericidal agents (but is also host damaging) along w/H2O2, OH, O2- and halides (hypochlorate) from H2O2/myeloperoxidase (death by halogenation!). NO is largely involved in inflamation. Lipid peroxidation products, decreases membrane integrity (the primary marker of irreversible cellular damage) and an entire host of things that make it a nasty compound when in excess. Basically all the reasons you take vitamin c and other antioxidants is to protect you against the kind of damage NO can inflict. Too little NO is obviously bad and can cause problems (like w/your pecker) but too much is probably equally bad if not worse. Your body has tons of checks/balances to make sure NO doesn't hurt you. Increasing beyond its self limiting capacity to make NO seems assinine to me. I think that NOxidant supplement (maybe by scivation?) is the best idea out there for increasing NO safely. These others are pretty wreckless and unfounded in my opinion.
 
Jay Mc said:
yes they are opposites in that ephedrine actually works the way its said to and Arginine, if it has the NO effect its claimed to (which it hopefully doesn't or people are likely damaging themselves taking it), likely only exhibits an ergogenic effect through a mechanism closely related to creatine. Someone prove me wrong w/pubmed!
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What do you think about NO products for folks taking great amounts of anti-oxidants ?
 
Iron Warrior said:
What do you think about NO products for folks taking great amounts of anti-oxidants ?
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Someone would have to prove that the limiting step in NO synthesis after overcoming natural countermeasures is lack of arginine. Following that, someone would have to prove NO has some kind of positive effect on bodybuilding.

For what its worth I can't think of a way that the first would happen to anyone eating a decent diet. And since there is a natural physiological hyperemia that coincides w/increased transport of nutrients into skeletal muscle already associated with periods during and after exercise I can't see how the second could be all that true either, although if someone has something revolutionary to say I'd listen.

Personally I'd spend my money on creatine monohydrate and then HMB. Building a great body is difficult to do. I think people HOPE there is an easy fix but there isn't. About 75% diet, 24% what you do in the gym, and 1% supplements. Maybe a larger percent diet...
 
Iron Warrior said:
Thanx Jay, my interest has been piqued by combining L-Arginine, Lysine, HMB, & CEE for a cut
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That brings up a good point. I forgot the 'mental' aspect of bodybuilding. If you take something w/100% conviction that it will have an effect, regardless of physiology it can be very powerful :)
 
How come ECA is recommended with Citrulline Malate?

Jay Mc said:
That brings up a good point. I forgot the 'mental' aspect of bodybuilding. If you take something w/100% conviction that it will have an effect, regardless of physiology it can be very powerful :)
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Presently using Arginine and no ECA which makes sense is it because CM works differently?
 
Jay Mc said:
yes they are opposites in that ephedrine actually works the way its said to and Arginine, if it has the NO effect its claimed to (which it hopefully doesn't or people are likely damaging themselves taking it), likely only exhibits an ergogenic effect through a mechanism closely related to creatine. Someone prove me wrong w/pubmed!
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I have spent the last 3 months going to specialists trying to figure out why my lymph vessels have been burning with the intensity of a jelly fish sting on genitals and inguinal area. It eventually spread throughout my body(lymph nodes and vessels). I had been taking Bronkaid and Lysine(1000mgs a day) and Arginine(1000mgs a day) and finally after months of genital torture I checked to see if not taking these suppliments with Bronkaid would halt these terrible symptoms.Well it had been 3 days and my pain level had steadily decreased and like a D/A I took them again and had the worst flare up of burning and stinging pain ever. I now have 2days off the supps/bronkaid and am again feeling relief. So as far as I'm concerned the jury is out-bronkaid with Lysine and Arginine (at least for me) was a very bad decision.
 
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