New to the site / 30yr old / Getting ready for HRT

[Jarhead0724]

Well, I have been lurking around on this site for about 6 months, and finally decided to create the account and try to network and get more informed.

So, here's the story:

I've always been active in sports, weights, cardio, etc and have always been a "bigger guy". (Currently 5'10" / 210lbs/ about 17% BF). I would work out and work out and work out with very little results, but was always been described as "functioning fit". I'm a 30 year old Marine who's been traveling the world, meeting people and then killing them (Just kidding) for the past 11 years. I've felt excessive lethargic, lazy, increased weight gains, increased fat gains, and decresed libido, always tired even after 8+ hrs of sleep over the past 5-ish years; so when I turned 30, a buddy suggested that I get some blood work ran to see how things were going. Well, low and behold....I have Low Test; Higher E, which the Endo attributed to all my above symptoms. After all the blood tests that were ordered, the Endo is going to put me on HRT. She mentioned Androgel, but I have my reservations about it due to the nussance of daily treatment and having to be clean, and no contact, and sweating....which isnt always achievable being in the military.

So......I've posted labs (and ranges) to see what everyone thinks. Any and all criticism, comments, etc are ALWAYS welcomed and appreciated. I have thick skin....

15 June 11
PSA 0.8ng/ml (0.0-4.0)
E2 36 pg/ml (0-52)
Ferretin 89 ng/ml (22-322)
Cortisol 7.0 mcg/dl

1 June 11
DHEA-SO4 294.6 ug/dl
Luteinizing Hormone 3.9 iu/l (1.5-9.3)
FSH 2.4 iu/l (1.4-18.1)
HCG QN <2.0 miu/ml
Prolactin 6.7 ng/ml (2.1-17.7)
Total Test 235 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Test 59.9 pg/ml (35.0-155.0)
Androstenedione 73 ng/dl (50-220)


12 May 11
Based upon over 2 years of soreness in the nips and swollen with lumps, I was told by a breast care doctor that I had bilateral gynecomastia (Mammogram, ultrasound) , which I had surgically removed. I was initially told it was nothing because of being in military and wearing tactical vests for many years, heavy weights, long periods of time cause the glands to "act funny" and that everything was ok. Well, my body, my life so thats when I requested the breast care clinic referral.

26 April 11
Estrogen 96.0 pg/ml (40.0-115)
Total Test 263 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Test 55.5 pg/ml (35.0-155.0)

9 March 11
Total Test 262 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Test 76.5 (35.0-155.0)
Estrogen 115.2 pg/ml (40-115)

1 Dec 10
FT4 1.54 ng/dl (.89-1.76)
TSH .683 uiu/ml (.550-4.780)

So, thats a rundown on all of the lab work that I've had done since December 2010. FYI, the only thing I've EVER done was Creatine & old school Ripped Fuel (ephedrine).

Hope to hear from y'all!

-J

 

[The Matrix]

Appears the pitutary is sending the signal, but there may be low fats in your diet or wrong combination which may preventing production.
CAffeine can raise e2 significantly.
Thyroid panel is not enough need ft3 ft4 total t4,rt3, tpo, tgab, tsh, ferritin, vitamin D 25
cortisol saliva test
e2 sensitive
dhea-s
crp sensitive
shbg
DHT
Progesterone

1. HAve you had head trama with in the past 10 years (concussion, automobile accident,foot ball injury) -mri scan would highly suggestable
2. how are your sleep patterns
3. What are current symptoms
4. Are you currently under any stress
5. Where you exposed to chemicals in your current or past job.
6. Are you over weight
7. How much do you drink?

Need to look for potential triggers for reasons why your levels are low.

 

[Jarhead0724]

Appears the pitutary is sending the signal, but there may be low fats in your diet or wrong combination which may preventing production.
CAffeine can raise e2 significantly.
Thyroid panel is not enough need ft3 ft4 total t4,rt3, tpo, tgab, tsh, ferritin, vitamin D 25
cortisol saliva test
e2 sensitive
dhea-s
crp sensitive
shbg
DHT
Progesterone

1. HAve you had head trama with in the past 10 years (concussion, automobile accident,foot ball injury) -mri scan would highly suggestable
2. how are your sleep patterns
3. What are current symptoms
4. Are you currently under any stress
5. Where you exposed to chemicals in your current or past job.
6. Are you over weight
7. How much do you drink?

Need to look for potential triggers for reasons why your levels are low.

Matrix,
Thanks for at least replying. I did have ferritin in the 15 June lab (89 ng/ml (22-322) and I will see what I can do about the other tests. Since Im military its somewhat difficult to walk in the Endo office and tell them what tests I would like. Now, to answer your questions:
1. Yes. Couple concussions from football. 2 IED's (Improvised Explosive Device) knocked me unconscious and have some reduced naurological functions.
- My Endo did do a Pituitary MRI and said that it looked normal. No tumors, no lumps, no deposits.
2. I go to bed around 10pm and wake around 630am....still feel tired, like I never entered REM.
3. Current symptoms....some problems with erections, weight gain, fat gain, lathargic, some foggy mind.
4. No, not really. Im a pretty laid back guy!
5. Chemicals.....Im sure asbestos and definately burning trash while deployed.
6. I think Im overweight, despite continious exercise. 5'10", 210lbs, about 17% and to me, I feel soft and bloated.
7. Not much. I wouldnt even consider it social. Maybe a couple beers (seriously) a month. Probably 6-12 total a month.

 

[The Matrix]

Where you in iraq or saudi arabi near the oil fields. I have worked with a few soldiers who worked in abu gray prisoner. One of them female was so toxic its going to take a long time to rebalance her back she is making progress slowly.

YOu being in 2 explosions JESUS MAN that will be plenty to knock out pitutary. Some times it does not show up on MRI, but the signal may not being send out so you may be secondary not primary. I would focus your assualt here. You are not that far from a good Dr that may take your insurance.

 

[Jarhead0724]

I was in Iraq when they happened....about 3.5 years apart. My Endo said that my pituitary IS sending out the signal down south, just not producing the test I guess. Oh man, its HARD to find a really really good HRT for men in the military, especially since I had to go through so much just to get this one. Cause they make us go to a Military Treatment Facility (Which HATES to do/see HRT) and if they dont have certain availability, then I have to go to a specific Endo that they tell me too......hence the reason Im with specific Endo now.

So had an Endo appointment today and she gave me a script for Test E 250mg/ml, 2ml every 2 weeks. No HCG, no AI....follow up in 3 months.

Just off the cuff....where can I grab a good OTC (cheap) AI? I know Im prone to gyno, as I had it surgically removed in May 2011....wih Low Test, High E.

 

[DragonRider]

I've always been active in sports, weights, cardio, etc and have always been a "bigger guy". (Currently 5'10" / 210lbs/ about 17% BF). I would work out and work out and work out with very little results, but was always been described as "functioning fit". THIS

Based upon over 2 years of soreness in the nips and swollen with lumps, I was told by a breast care doctor that I had bilateral gynecomastia (Mammogram, ultrasound) , which I had surgically removed. I was initially told it was nothing because of being in military and wearing tactical vests for many years, heavy weights, long periods of time cause the glands to "act funny" and that everything was ok. THIS

26 April 11
Estrogen 96.0 pg/ml (40.0-115) THIS
Total Test 263 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Test 55.5 pg/ml (35.0-155.0)

9 March 11
Total Test 262 ng/dl (250-1100)
Free Test 76.5 (35.0-155.0)
Estrogen 115.2 pg/ml (40-115)THIS

-J

Those problems are definately attributable to your elevated estrogen. Why they are elevated, I don't know, and Matrix may be able to help.

So had an Endo appointment today and she gave me a script for Test E 250mg/ml, 2ml every 2 weeks. No HCG, no AI....follow up in 3 months.

Just off the cuff....where can I grab a good OTC (cheap) AI? I know Im prone to gyno, as I had it surgically removed in May 2011....wih Low Test, High E.

2ml every 2 weeks is 500mg? Or did that mean 1ml per week? That's way too much and will give you estrogen problems from hell. And the dosing schedule is too infrequent. You need to inject about 100mg once per week minimum and 50mg twice a week would be the most beneficial as far as estrogen sides go.
HCG and AI's are not absolutely necessary for everyone, so don't assume you were misprescribed automatically.

For an OTC AI, I'm liking PES Erase. It is a natural metabolite of 7 keto DHEA and you can get by with 1 or 2 tabs a day.

 

[kingdong]

If your estrogen is high then you should probably start witht the AI. Your estrogen would go down, and hopefully your test would go up.

 

[Jarhead0724]

2ml every 2 weeks is 500mg? I just double checked the script...2 ml every 2 weeks. Or did that mean 1ml per week? That's way too much and will give you estrogen problems from hell. And the dosing schedule is too infrequent. I'm "allowed" to self-inject, so I was gonna break it up to at least 1ml per week. You need to inject about 100mg once per week minimum and 50mg twice a week would be the most beneficial as far as estrogen sides go.
HCG and AI's are not absolutely necessary for everyone, so don't assume you were misprescribed automatically. I know Im seriously prone to gyno. Never used AAS before but had gyno bad enough I had it surgically removed in May 2011, just due to the high E.

For an OTC AI, I'm liking PES Erase. It is a natural metabolite of 7 keto DHEA and you can get by with 1 or 2 tabs a day. Ill take a look at it and see if price is feasible.

Thanks Dragon

 

[Jarhead0724]

If your estrogen is high then you should probably start witht the AI. Your estrogen would go down, and hopefully your test would go up.

Thats why I haven't filled the script yet. I was trying to find and OTC AI that I could take for a bit and see how things go. I asked about a RX AI, and was told "we'll see how you feel without it, while bring on the Test."

 

[kingdong]

Thats why I haven't filled the script yet. I was trying to find and OTC AI that I could take for a bit and see how things go. I asked about a RX AI, and was told "we'll see how you feel without it, while bring on the Test."

Pff, idiots! I like Erase, but I hear formestane(a man made chemical proven to be safe and sold as a supplement) is stronger.

 

[The Matrix]

Pff, idiots! I like Erase, but I hear formestane(a man made chemical proven to be safe and sold as a supplement) is stronger.

Pm me do you have tricare?

 

[DragonRider]

I like Erase, but I hear formestane (a man made chemical proven to be safe and sold as a supplement) is stronger.

But, keep in mind that stronger is not always better when we are talking about TRT. We want to eliminate just enough estrogen to function properly while still maintaining enough for optimal brain, heart and bone health.
One of the problems with Arimidex (the most often prescribed AI) in my opinion, is that many of it's users are having to adjust the dose constantly because they continually go too low (too strong). On top of that there is the issue with lowering HDL cholesterol.

 

[aaronexists]

2. I go to bed around 10pm and wake around 630am....still feel tired, like I never entered REM.
3. Current symptoms....some problems with erections, weight gain, fat gain, lathargic, some foggy mind.

Maybe consider sleep apnea too, if you're not getting restful sleep. I suspect I had both problems happening at the same time, T on low end and really bad sleep apnea as diagnosed by sleep lab. Got the sleep apnea treated by surgery, but when I still didn't feel good, kept pursuing. It took another year and a half to get any sort of detailed hormone panels done. Your problems may all be hormone related, but could be other things going on too. Just a thought.

 

[The Matrix]

Needs to dig deeper...

 

[Jarhead0724]

A guy at work said I look into a sleep lab and see whats going on there as well.

 

[Jarhead0724]

Maybe consider sleep apnea too, if you're not getting restful sleep. I suspect I had both problems happening at the same time, T on low end and really bad sleep apnea as diagnosed by sleep lab. Got the sleep apnea treated by surgery, but when I still didn't feel good, kept pursuing. It took another year and a half to get any sort of detailed hormone panels done. Your problems may all be hormone related, but could be other things going on too. Just a thought.

A guy at work said I should into trying into getting into the sleep lab and see whats going on...

 

[The Matrix]

Knowing that the immune system and neurological systems are interlinked, one can only imagine what kind of inflammation. Is going on through out the body. The opitimal solution would be what is driving what and correct it after attending lecture last night on the neuro endocrine and immune system we have only begun to learn the interactions and how they are related. The root of disease and other degeneration of the body starts with inflammation

 

[Jarhead0724]

So, my Endo gave me a call wanting to talk about the MRI of my pituitary a couple weeks ago. After she and I talked about all the life experiences I've encurred, she has come to the conclusion that the waves and shock from MULTIPLE IED's has basically shot my pituitary.

 

[DragonRider]

So, my Endo gave me a call wanting to talk about the MRI of my pituitary a couple weeks ago. After she and I talked about all the life experiences I've encurred, she has come to the conclusion that the waves and shock from MULTIPLE IED's has basically shot my pituitary.

Does she have a game plan?

 

[Jarhead0724]

Does she have a game plan?

Her plan is the HRT. I ordered the ERASE and it came in today, but I missed the mailman, so he left it in the usps box with the front desk of my apartment complex; so I'll pick that up tomorrow. So, I guess I'll go fill the script for the Test E and instead of doing her 2ml every 2 weeks, Ill run 1ml per week and run the ERASE as needed.

 

[The Matrix]

Her plan is the HRT. I ordered the ERASE and it came in today, but I missed the mailman, so he left it in the usps box with the front desk of my apartment complex; so I'll pick that up tomorrow. So, I guess I'll go fill the script for the Test E and instead of doing her 2ml every 2 weeks, Ill run 1ml per week and run the ERASE as needed.

Your better running .25 ml 2 times a week then getting blood test done in 5 weeks with out an AI. Running an AI with out knowing what is going on is not good practice from a Dr. Glad you are getting help, but did not take a brainiac to figure out the root cause LOL DO not touch erase untill after first blood test. If you running 200 mgs a week it is too much and with all the crap that you been through it could up set the apples affecting cortisol or adrenal gland. After dealing with some soldiers coming back their adrenals are fried and need proper recovering going through PTSD. Jar head do not turn into bone head being mislead by improper HRT protocols.

 

[Jarhead0724]

Your better running .25 ml 2 times a week then getting blood test done in 5 weeks with out an AI. Running an AI with out knowing what is going on is not good practice from a Dr. Glad you are getting help, but did not take a brainiac to figure out the root cause LOL DO not touch erase untill after first blood test. If you running 200 mgs a week it is too much and with all the crap that you been through it could up set the apples affecting cortisol or adrenal gland. After dealing with some soldiers coming back their adrenals are fried and need proper recovering going through PTSD. Jar head do not turn into bone head being mislead by improper HRT protocols.

Thanks Matrix, since I know that you know what your talking about, Ill stick with running .25ml 2x a week, with no AI and then get a blood test and see where Im at. Thats good about blood tests, I can walk into the Lab and tell my family practice doctor what blood labs I would like. So, at the 5 week lab work, what specifically should I ask for?

 

[The Matrix]

Thanks Matrix, since I know that you know what your talking about, Ill stick with running .25ml 2x a week, with no AI and then get a blood test and see where Im at. Thats good about blood tests, I can walk into the Lab and tell my family practice doctor what blood labs I would like. So, at the 5 week lab work, what specifically should I ask for?

Total T
shbg
dht
progesterone
estradiol sensitive not rapid, roche,
bio testoserone
Vitamin D

Once you get t and e stablize then another 6 weeks you go back and look at DHEA and thyroid, vap


Blood taken day before the injection or morning of the injection but before the shots. Then adjust things accordingly.

 

[pmgamer18]

Listen to Matrix,

I am Hypopituitary due to a head injury from an Auto Accident some 30 yrs ago for the first 5 yrs that I was to sick to work on sick leave Dr.'s could not find anything wrong to the labled me with Major Depression I had to go along with this to keep my job and sick pay. I feel like I lost 5 yrs of my life walking around in a fog from the AD drugs. When I found out I had low Testosterone I was happy to find out I am not nuts.

Yet the Dr.'s still got it wrong telling me I am Primary I was on TRT not feeling 100% for 23 yrs. I got a new Dr. tried HCG doing 500 IU's 3x's / week on top of my Depo T shot every week. At the time the lab we used the top of the range for Total Testosterone was 1593 my levels were 600 not very high doing the HCG 8 weeks my levels doubled showing my Dr. I am not Primary I am Secondary. My new Dr. sent out all the copys of labs I had to a friend that is up on Hypopituitary problems.

His report came back that for yrs my labs were screaming I have a Pituitary Problem. All my hormones were low normal in range this puts me in the bottom 1% of all the sickest people in the sample to get the ranges. Dr.'s are not reading labs the right way when some one has a mess of low normal levels it's a Red Flag going up.

So now we treat all my low Hormones Testosterone, Cortisol, Thyroid, Growth Hormone and Aldosterone but it was a bit late all them yrs of low hormones caused blockages going to my Heart so 32 months ago I need Heart Bypass Sugery and it went bad I was put in a coma 14 had to be opened up 7 x's due to infections and I am lucky to be here posting to you.

After read this thread I do feel your Pituitary is damaged but one thing that can hide this is your high Estradiol levels your brain will see this as high Testosterone and slow down sending the LH and FSH messages to your Testis that tells them to make Testosterone and you can end up low.

You first need to get your Estraidol levels down then redo your labs and do all of them. Your morning fasting Cortisol is very low much like mine was and the Dr. that read the labs told me I was fine this is Bull Shi* your not fine this low in the morning.

You would need to have an ACTH Stim. test to tell if your Adrenals work and just don't get told to. I did this test and my Adrenals took off going why up after the shot showing the Dr. I am Secondary my Pituitary dose not tell my Adrenals to make enough Cortisol and this will make you feel like crap.

You need to tell the Dr.'s at your base you feel you have damage to your Pituitary from road side bombs they know all about this problem and your going to need treatment for the rest of your life and if you don't get this point accross it can cost you a lot of money for the rest of your life.

If you don't treat them low normal hormones it can damage your body later in your yrs. like it did to me. When I found out I am Hypopituitary I got a lot of help from Chris a guy with this problem he had a forum that is not closed but you can still read all his work and old posts about this problem. You would do good to go there and join and read the Hypopituitary Forum there.
Invalid Link Removed

 

[T Man]

Total T


Blood taken day before the injection or morning of the injection but not before the shots. Then adjust things accordingly.

I am thinking this might be a typo and that the blood should be taken before the injection. Is that correct?

 

[pmgamer18]

Never do shots then labs you will get very high levels doing this and most Dr.'s will lower your TRT seeing this. I do my blood work on the day of my next shot but I do the blood work first then the shot.

I am thinking this might be a typo and that the blood should be taken before the injection. Is that correct?

 

[The Matrix]

Never do shots then labs you will get very high levels doing this and most Dr.'s will lower your TRT seeing this. I do my blood work on the day of my next shot but I do the blood work first then the shot.

Yes typo
Corrected..Bad iphone Bad ...LOL