bulking diet, cant help but banging my head against a wall

[fballfanatik3]

just wanted to get some input on my diet. ive been bulking since september and decided to do a short "refining" stage if you will because i felt like i was gaining too much fat.

first, my bulking diet:
6:00 - Pro Complex Gainer Shake
8:30 - 8 whole eggs, cup of oatmeal, scoop of whey
11:30 - 12 oz chicken, cup of brown rice, scoop of whey
12:00 - 12:30 - Any preworkout supps I'm currently taking
1:00 - 2:30 - Workout
3:00 - Pro Complex Gainer Shake
5:00 - 12 oz chicken, cup of brown rice, scoop of whey
7:00 - 12 oz london broil, cup of brown rice, scoop of whey
9:00 - 12 oz london broil, cup of brown rice, scoop of whey
11:00 - two scoops casein protein

I was taking LG Science's Trifecta Stack during this bulking period

and my current refining diet:
6:00 - pro complex gainer shake, 2 oxyelite pro
8:30 - 2 eggs, 10 egg whites, scoop of whey
11:30 - 12 oz chicken, half a head of romaine lettuce, scoop of whey
12:00 - 12:30 - Pre WO
1:00 - 2:10 - Workout
2:10 - 2:30 - Cardio (usually HIIT)
3:00 - Pro Complex Gainer Shake
5:00 - 12 oz chicken, scoop of whey
7:00 - 12 oz chicken, scoop of whey
9:00 - 12 oz chicken, scoop of whey
11:00 - Two scoops casein protein

I'm also currently taking T-911 and forma-D as the "pct" to the trifecta stack

I also take animal pak, animal omega, and animal flex every day

The only reason Im asking for help on the subject is because I feel like with the amount im eating and the intensity that i work out at, im gaining too much fat and too little muscle, and its making me go insane!

My stats as of now:
Age 16
210-215 pounds
12-15 % BF

 

[jlinteris]

First off, your bulking diet looks like it cost a fortune!! It also looks like overkill. I do not eat that much protein to gain muscle and add bodyweight and I am currently 250 pounds. I used to bulk like this when I was younger, then get fat and eat lean like you are, lose fat, lose the muscle I built then start again. My recommendation would be to take a few steps back, rethink your bulking phase, perhaps consider a slower bulk and start again. You are not just going to eat everything you see, lift weights and grow 20" arms and have a 6 pack in a year. It is a very slow process regardless of what you consume. Perhaps try 75% of what your bulking diet had, monitor your bodyweight weekly and make adjustments accordingly. If you only put on one pound per month of quality it seems lame, but all of the sudden in a year you are walking around with 12 more pounds of lean muscle which is a huge ammount. Now look where you potentially are in three years. Rather than write a book I would say to slow down. Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[fballfanatik3]

first of all, i want to say thanks for the fast response, and i never thought about it like that (1 lb a month = 12 lbs a year)
Second of all, the reason I'm eating such large amounts isnt so much because i wanna get huge fast, its because i cant fit in a sixth meal, and i want to compensate for that meal. Also the only reason im saying im not seeing the results i expect to see is because im watching guys at the gym around my age, maybe a year or two older, catch up to where i am real quick, without the use of steroids, and yet these guys are eating like **** and drinking every weekend. it makes me ask myself if im eating enough and working hard enough, and then i realize im eating to the point of being sick and working out so hard that puking has become an every other day occurence at the gym.
Reguarding what you said, what do you think should be cut out of the bulking diet? and do you think its the high amount of carbs or the saturated fat from the steak+eggs thats making me gain the excess fat?

 

[mkretz]

bottom line is that that is ALOT of calories, whether its fats carbs or protein isn't reall ythe case IMO its the fact that that amt. of calories is way over ur maintenence so urgaining alot of fat.....jsut cut down on portion sizes and see what happens,

 

[drinkyboy]

More vegetables and a lot less rice imo.

 

[jlinteris]

bottom line is that that is ALOT of calories, whether its fats carbs or protein isn't reall ythe case IMO its the fact that that amt. of calories is way over ur maintenence so urgaining alot of fat.....jsut cut down on portion sizes and see what happens,

first of all, i want to say thanks for the fast response, and i never thought about it like that (1 lb a month = 12 lbs a year)
Second of all, the reason I'm eating such large amounts isnt so much because i wanna get huge fast, its because i cant fit in a sixth meal, and i want to compensate for that meal. Also the only reason im saying im not seeing the results i expect to see is because im watching guys at the gym around my age, maybe a year or two older, catch up to where i am real quick, without the use of steroids, and yet these guys are eating like **** and drinking every weekend. it makes me ask myself if im eating enough and working hard enough, and then i realize im eating to the point of being sick and working out so hard that puking has become an every other day occurence at the gym.
Reguarding what you said, what do you think should be cut out of the bulking diet? and do you think its the high amount of carbs or the saturated fat from the steak+eggs thats making me gain the excess fat?

First off, when I was younger I trained sooooo hard and guys I went to school with that never trained would walk into the gym and outlift me. They partied all the time, they were pretty lean and it pissed me off. Same situation as you. As you progress with your training, you will eventually get to a point where you are in a league of your own. Trust me on this. It does not happen overnight but it will pay off. As all of your lifts gain 2-5 pounds a month, and you gain a pound of muscle a month, eventually you will be to a point where these people that you once thought were pretty lean and strong will seem weak and useless. Haha, I am blending my own personal experiences in with you. I will get into the diet. As drinkyboy said, adding vegetables to your diet will help. These will help make you feel full while adding fibre, trace carbs and lower calories to your diet, but more important a lot of these veggies help your body to digest food. Dont overthink this. Just eat a ****load of smallish meals a day. Add a lot of protein and veggies into the mix and monitor your bodyweight and strength. If it you do not make progress every week, add 50-100 cals of lean food to each meal. Keep adding this small ammount of lean food to each meal until each you start to see the gains you are looking for. Slow and steady, bud!

 

[fballfanatik3]

First off, when I was younger I trained sooooo hard and guys I went to school with that never trained would walk into the gym and outlift me. They partied all the time, they were pretty lean and it pissed me off. Same situation as you. As you progress with your training, you will eventually get to a point where you are in a league of your own. Trust me on this. It does not happen overnight but it will pay off. As all of your lifts gain 2-5 pounds a month, and you gain a pound of muscle a month, eventually you will be to a point where these people that you once thought were pretty lean and strong will seem weak and useless. Haha, I am blending my own personal experiences in with you. I will get into the diet. As drinkyboy said, adding vegetables to your diet will help. These will help make you feel full while adding fibre, trace carbs and lower calories to your diet, but more important a lot of these veggies help your body to digest food. Dont overthink this. Just eat a ****load of smallish meals a day. Add a lot of protein and veggies into the mix and monitor your bodyweight and strength. If it you do not make progress every week, add 50-100 cals of lean food to each meal. Keep adding this small ammount of lean food to each meal until each you start to see the gains you are looking for. Slow and steady, bud!

its good to know that im not the only one facing these kinds of problems haha
and so what do you think, like instead of a full cup of rice maybe half a cup rice half cup veggies?
and if im looking to cut down the calories, should i swap out steak for pork,chicken, turkey, etc.? also keep in mind i was doing 15 min light cardio (elliptical; 6-7 mph) so that also plays a role in calorie maintenance, and i wanted to make sure i was taking in more calories than i burned, but i guess i went a little OD
one more thing, the age-old question: i know guys under 18 (preferably 21-25) shouldn't touch anything steroid/prohormone related, but what about natural test boosters like Animal Test, Testopro, etc? I ran a cycle of one month animal test + stak, one month test, then one month m-stak and i had pretty damn good strength gains for something legal

 

[jlinteris]

its good to know that im not the only one facing these kinds of problems haha
and so what do you think, like instead of a full cup of rice maybe half a cup rice half cup veggies?
and if im looking to cut down the calories, should i swap out steak for pork,chicken, turkey, etc.? also keep in mind i was doing 15 min light cardio (elliptical; 6-7 mph) so that also plays a role in calorie maintenance, and i wanted to make sure i was taking in more calories than i burned, but i guess i went a little OD
one more thing, the age-old question: i know guys under 18 (preferably 21-25) shouldn't touch anything steroid/prohormone related, but what about natural test boosters like Animal Test, Testopro, etc? I ran a cycle of one month animal test + stak, one month test, then one month m-stak and i had pretty damn good strength gains for something legal

Yeah I think by cutting the rice down, adding veggies and going from there will be a good start. Like I said though, really monitor what happens weekly and make adjustments. You will really learn what your body needs to grow by doing this without adding large ammounts of fat. As for the natural test gainers and stuff, I dont see any issue with that. Being young and running a ProHormone is unneccesary. Also really hard on the system. Hard work and good diet goes a lot further than quick fixes/

 

[fballfanatik3]

so do you think i should stay on the little refining cycle im on now or go straight back to the bulk? I'd like to get my six pack back, but i know that theres a 95% chance of that not happening since i retain fat quite easliy when im not running for an hour a day

 

[Kellyflan1]

8:30 - 2 eggs, 10 egg whites, scoop of whey

Holy crap! Thats like 150G of protein in one chunk. Your body hates you bro! You only need 350 to 450 all day long. I may pump your septic tank and eat the $1,000,000 in raw protein you crap out per year. Not really...kinda gross.

 

[fballfanatik3]

8:30 - 2 eggs, 10 egg whites, scoop of whey

Holy crap! Thats like 150G of protein in one chunk. Your body hates you bro! You only need 350 to 450 all day long. I may pump your septic tank and eat the $1,000,000 in raw protein you crap out per year. Not really...kinda gross.

Hahaha yea I'm looking at it now and realizing i DEFINATELY went off the deep end with the protein. I guess I freaked out when I stopped growing muscle after the first two months of bulking so went from 10 oz of meat with each meal to 12 oz of meat and added the protein shakes. No wonder I've been ****ting bricks...

I think you could take out some of the scoops of whey, have about 3 whey protein shakes throughout the day not 6. Then 1 casein before bed

Does it make sense to cut out the protein shakes altogether and just split the meals in half then eat every hour?
Ex: instead of 12 oz london broil, a cup of rice, and a scoop of whey every 2 - 3 hours, have 6 oz steak and 1/2 a cup (no whey) every hour - hour and a half
To me it seems that would make more sense, because sometimes I get hungry before the two hours is up, which is wierd because I have to force feed myself at every meal to make sure all 12 ozs goes down

also on a side note, do you guys think instead of cutting down my caloric intake that i just switch to a more intense and taxing routine? I was thinking of doing the Bosshogg routine after seeing a bunch of raving reviews, on top of 20 minutes of cardio per day

 

[jlinteris]

8:30 - 2 eggs, 10 egg whites, scoop of whey

Holy crap! Thats like 150G of protein in one chunk. Your body hates you bro! You only need 350 to 450 all day long. I may pump your septic tank and eat the $1,000,000 in raw protein you crap out per year. Not really...kinda gross.

Actually, my opinion is this is one of the meals I do not have issues with. Here is why. 1 whole egg is 6g protein. egg white is 2-3g protein. Lets say for arguements sake an eggwhite is 2.5g. 10x2.5g= 25g + 12g= 37g protein. A general scoop of whey (non isolate) is 24g of protein. This meal is 61g of protein total. Since it is eggs I will assume it is breakfast and this meal is the metabolism starter for the day. This NEEDS to be a good sized meal. You have almost all of the fat cut out and gobs of lean protein. This meal looks great to me.

 

[jlinteris]

One more thing is that you do not have to cut out ANY protein. If you want to be sure you eat maximum ammounts and you **** out the excess, so be it. That is your choice. You are not going to add fat from lean protein sources. They can stay untouched. Worst part is that it hurts your wallet. If this is no issue then it is all good. Adjust your carbs and your fat gaining problem will be solved. When I lean out, I intentionally overeat protein. I do this because I have a huge appetite and If I dont then I will start eating some carbs and pig right out. Sometimes I will eat my meal and if I am hungry then I will eat another 2-3 chicken breasts on some occasion. I continue to lose fat while doing this.

 

[fballfanatik3]

One more thing is that you do not have to cut out ANY protein. If you want to be sure you eat maximum ammounts and you **** out the excess, so be it. That is your choice. You are not going to add fat from lean protein sources. They can stay untouched. Worst part is that it hurts your wallet. If this is no issue then it is all good. Adjust your carbs and your fat gaining problem will be solved. When I lean out, I intentionally overeat protein. I do this because I have a huge appetite and If I dont then I will start eating some carbs and pig right out. Sometimes I will eat my meal and if I am hungry then I will eat another 2-3 chicken breasts on some occasion. I continue to lose fat while doing this.

whats your carb/fat/protein ratio look like when you're leaning out as compared to bulking up?

 

[Kellyflan1]

Actually, my opinion is this is one of the meals I do not have issues with. Here is why. 1 whole egg is 6g protein. egg white is 2-3g protein. Lets say for arguements sake an eggwhite is 2.5g. 10x2.5g= 25g + 12g= 37g protein. A general scoop of whey (non isolate) is 24g of protein. This meal is 61g of protein total. Since it is eggs I will assume it is breakfast and this meal is the metabolism starter for the day. This NEEDS to be a good sized meal. You have almost all of the fat cut out and gobs of lean protein. This meal looks great to me.

I'm not questioning the particular meal but that it's stacked in with EVERYTHING else he is eating. I did some bad math on the egg protein. I may have been using t-rex eggs for the total protein count and yes it would be more like 6 grams for a normal egg. I generally use two scoops in my own shakes and I end up with 50 total grams per shake. I'd be consuming 110 grams of protein in one sitting. Thats also close to 1000 calories with each egg at 75 and 120 per scoop of shake. Three of these meals and you are all good for the day. The trick is to break it in to 5 or six meals to allow the body to use it all properly.