First PH Cycle

[Althalus]

So basically I've been thinking about starting a PH cycle around late April/early May. I've had recent bloodwork done and my cholesterol levels are good, blood pressure is good, and I have no family history of high blood pressure, male pattern baldness, or prostate cancer/enlargement issues. That isn't to say I'm necessarily immune to them or going to ignore the endocrinologist throughout all this, but for now, I have a clean bill of health.

The major PHs I was looking at are:

CEL M-Drol
+I personally know people who have taken this and gained plenty of weight, and more importantly, kept it on.
+Pill form to keep doses exact.
-Superdrol might be a bit harsh on the liver, and for a first cycle I might be getting a bit in over my head so far as handling the sides.
-It's been discontinued for a while, so the skeptic in me is very hesitant to purchase this from some random site I found. In all fairness I can look up third-party reviews of sites to remedy this problem.

PP Superdrone-LV
+Supposedly a more bio-available version of Superdrol. This could also be a -, but I would most likely stick with a pulse cycle if it is going to be too strong as a regular cycle.
+Brand loyalty/convenience. PP has always been solid in the past and I trust them to make a great PH, and the convenience of just purchasing a stack makes this a lot less worrysome.
-Same Superdrol concern as with M-Drol.
-Oral syringe isn't always going to be exact like a pill, and in a compound like Superdrol where .5mL is a lot, every bit over that counts. Not that it would be the end of the world if I took .55-.6mL or something, but I'd like to be as careful and meticulous as possible when it comes to this.

PP Turinabol-LV
+From my reading, Halodrol is a lot less prevalent in terms of sides, other than joint pain in some.
+Milder compound. For me it's a +...particularly as a first cycle. I have no idea how I'll react to any PH so starting off with a mild one seems like a good idea.
+Brand loyalty/convenience.
-Oral syringe concern, but with a milder compound it might not be as much of a concern...here, even an extra .1mL is only another 6~7% of the compound as opposed to another 20%.

So, the over-excited results-addicted guy in me is leaning more towards the Superdrol clones. The more practical me is leaning a lot more towards the Turinabol-LV. In this case I am most likely going to end up using the Turinabol-LV stack that PP sells, and have some bloods done before, during, and after my cycle. There's a general guideline on their site regarding cycle length and dosages, keeping it at 1.5mL twice/day for 6 weeks. My goal is to bulk.

The one thing I would like to know is what should I do differently while on a cycle? Of course the obvious up of the calories, is 1000 over maintenance alright, or should I stick to 750 over? Is a nutrient macro of 40/40/20 (protein/carb/fat) still ok, or should I up my protein intake so it's more like 50/30/20? Should I stick to something typical like a 3 day on, 1 day off workout plan with a 4 day split (example: chest/tri, back/bi, legs/abs, off, shoulders/traps, etc etc), or should I change to something different? That is, should I increase my days on or do two-a-days or anything? Is there a particular sort of training that is more conducive to training on a PH such as 5x5, or should I just lift heavy 3x8-12 and make sure I'm actually working my hardest to get those last reps?

Furthermore, after the cycle if I wanted to go on a cut...I'd imagine you want to keep your PCT calories above or at maintenance to keep the weight you just put on. After that however, how long would you suggest before going on a cut? One month post-PCT, two perhaps?

Are there any glaring problems that need to be pointed out, or does anyone have any thoughts they would like to share in regards to first cycle experience? I would like everything to be spot on so I can have a successful first cycle.

Thanks for any help.

 

[cflight]

I see you've put in your time researching....A+++

I would second your Turinabol/Halo choice...given the lower sides /liver toxicity reasoning.
I am also contemplating the next run to be SD.

Diet choice sounds spot on....40/40/20 or there about....breaks down to 1.5gP/1.5gC+/Remainder.
I believe a lean bulk follows calculating your BMR and using the Harris Benedict formula...I've been sticking to it and see no deficit...I wake up just getting a touch hungry. I have a few hundred cal.s here and there as I feal the need.

I chose to bump my routine up to a 2 on 1 off split while on cycle, after reading a bit about HST (hypertrophy specific training)...1 day upper/1 day lower/1off is how I saw it working best....giving 72 hours rest/repair before hitting the same groups again. The idea seams to be a lower rep.s ie:4-6/heavier weight per target, 3-4 sets, with more frequency per week, and less recoup time , sounds CNS related to me...I still mix it up as I feel fitting, tending to do a few pyramiding down sets, possibly over working it and just building up lactic acid...?
As this has dramatically increase the the required time, I have broke it into AM and PM workouts.

After a friend suggesting a little cardio pre workout, claiming it really helps getting the test going...I have found a bit of truth in this, whether it's BP related or adrenal...? Just as it's proven that higher test levels are found keeping rest between sets at/below 2 minutes...you can feel it...I've shorten rest times from 2 min to 1.5 and logged little to no difference in quantity.

As I tend to rep until failure, I will say that while on cycle, I don't feel failure coming as well until half way through that failing rep...))) So keeping this in mind, and use caution while nearing failure, especially if you work out alone as I do.

As for cutting post cycle, I believe, it is relative to consider cutting after PCT + normalization period, both of equal length to cycle, given that cutting can induce a lot of stress, specifically hormonal.

"Stay thirsty my friend"

 

[douglasbarbin]

Don't even think about running M-Drol/Superdrol for your first cycle. Figure out how your body reacts to something milder, first. H-Drol is a GREAT choice in my opinion. Then maybe try something like Epi, and if that turns out well, try M-Drol. If you start with Superdrol, you don't leave much room to go up in the future (except for maybe Alpha One/The One, and more traditional AAS/injectables). I would not recomment Superdrol as a starting point for ANYONE.

 

[johnjohn12345]

Do u think 20 is young i am 19 will be 20 in a few mouths and have considered running a ph but it sounds like a ph can tweak with u. Did you talk to a physican or anything cause i myself and pretty interested in a ph but i dont think its worths the sides.

 

[johnjohn12345]

H-drol have any ad sides?

 

[EustisPanther]

Don't even think about running M-Drol/Superdrol for your first cycle. Figure out how your body reacts to something milder, first. H-Drol is a GREAT choice in my opinion. Then maybe try something like Epi, and if that turns out well, try M-Drol. If you start with Superdrol, you don't leave much room to go up in the future (except for maybe Alpha One/The One, and more traditional AAS/injectables). I would not recomment Superdrol as a starting point for ANYONE.

Why, if you don't mind my asking.. ? With all do respect 90% of talk on products like M-Drol is speculation. Medical results that are 100% conclusive are not really out there.

I had been training seriously for 4 years before I ran my first cycle and I was being pushed to compete in natural bodybuilding competitions at the state level in FL by men twice my age with five times the experience. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I'm simply trying to make the point that I knew what I was doing and I knew what I was getting into when I decided to run my first cycle.

1st cycle consisted of M-Drol run solo... Pulsed on w.o. days only. (4-5/week)
10/20/20/20 with PCT consiting of Nolva as a base 40/40/20/20
For support I ran
Milk Thistle 1,000mg/Day
Red Yest Rice 1,200mg/Day
CoQ10 100mg/Day
along with other products.

In four weeks I gained an unbelievable amount of weight. 27 lbs..
Now granted a minimum of 12lbs was FAT.. but that was due to a ridiculously high calorie intake.

But blood work done before and after were both within healthy range and I showed no extra strain on liver/cholesterol/blood pressure.

Not to say it's not a risk. But if you are intelligent and managing risks, then you can easily run M-Drol for a 1st cycle. Why waist time straining your body with things like H-Drol if you want the gains of M-Drol...

Again, this is simply my opinion and I mean no disrespect to you "douglas barbin"

 

[douglasbarbin]

Why, if you don't mind my asking.. ? With all do respect 90% of talk on products like M-Drol is speculation. Medical results that are 100% conclusive are not really out there.

I had been training seriously for 4 years before I ran my first cycle and I was being pushed to compete in natural bodybuilding competitions at the state level in FL by men twice my age with five times the experience. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I'm simply trying to make the point that I knew what I was doing and I knew what I was getting into when I decided to run my first cycle.

1st cycle consisted of M-Drol run solo... Pulsed on w.o. days only. (4-5/week)
10/20/20/20 with PCT consiting of Nolva as a base 40/40/20/20
For support I ran
Milk Thistle 1,000mg/Day
Red Yest Rice 1,200mg/Day
CoQ10 100mg/Day
along with other products.

In four weeks I gained an unbelievable amount of weight. 27 lbs..
Now granted a minimum of 12lbs was FAT.. but that was due to a ridiculously high calorie intake.

But blood work done before and after were both within healthy range and I showed no extra strain on liver/cholesterol/blood pressure.

Not to say it's not a risk. But if you are intelligent and managing risks, then you can easily run M-Drol for a 1st cycle. Why waist time straining your body with things like H-Drol if you want the gains of M-Drol...

Again, this is simply my opinion and I mean no disrespect to you "douglas barbin"

You sound like you had your support supps and PCT in order, which usually isn't the case for a first cycle. Even so, M-Drol isn't a very good choice for a first cycle. Reason being, you had no way of knowing how your body was going to react to ANY cycle, especially one of the more serious PH/PS's out there. Now, assuming that you DO know what you're doing, and have proper support supps/PCT (not saying you didn't), 99% of the time, people aren't going to get gyno or have terrible amounts of damage to the liver, heart, or endocrine system. That being said, do you want to be the one guy who does, even though you did everything "correctly"? The point of taking something milder than Superdrol is that you can notice potential problems or adverse reactions you may have, and if you are having these symptoms on, say, Halodrol, odds are that they will be much worse on Superdrol. Here's an analogy: if you've never swam before, do you start off by being dropped off in the middle of the English Channel? Of course not; you start with something smaller and work your way up to that. I know that seems kind of extreme, but the point is the same; you ideally don't want to "go all-in" before you have a general idea of how your body will react.

On a side note, I'm sure you've already heard this before, but you're really slightly young to be taking hormonal products. Long-term risks aside, your test production should be through the roof right now, and you would have seen more of a benefit from M-Drol if you had waited a couple more years before taking it. Easier said than done, I know, but it is almost always worth it to wait when it comes to this type of thing. Obviously, you will still see a benefit from these types of products, but they won't be as noticeable as when your natural test production starts to decline.

I agree that typically, the risks of products like Superdrol are blown WAY out of proportion, but it's always best to start with smaller, more calculated risks when it comes to your long-term health.

 

[EustisPanther]

Certainly I agree with you, it is a calculated risk. One that I chose to take upon myself. After running M-Drol I took nearly two years off of any hormone related products. Not to say I have not caused unforeseen side effects to my long term health, but again I knew the risk I was taking.

However, I have also run a cycle of E-Stane, and had is cause a flair up in gyno... when it is supposed to combat gyno. So like I said before, mainly speculation.

Yes, risks are involved with hormone related products, but it is so difficult on the issue of who will react to what and how. So I acknowledge your concerns, and comments, they are certainly valid. For me I chose to take the risk with M-Drol and so far I have no regrets.

Thanks for the conversation. I enjoy the dialogue with another experienced user.

 

[Althalus]

Thanks for the replies so far y'all, and the dialogue between Eustis and Douglas was a good read. In the end though, I think for safety's sake I'll still stick with the Turinabol. There's nothing saying this cycle has to be my only one and I'd like to try Superdrol in the future depending on how well this goes, so it's not being entirely ruled out there. The only limiting factor here is how long we go before another genius does something like take six month's worth of three methylated prohormones and say that it's the company's fault for his liver being worthless.

Do u think 20 is young i am 19 will be 20 in a few mouths and have considered running a ph but it sounds like a ph can tweak with u. Did you talk to a physican or anything cause i myself and pretty interested in a ph but i dont think its worths the sides.

I have talked with both my regular doctor and my endocrinologist about taking a PH. Unless you have a doctor who sees many bodybuilders or used to be one or what have you, they will be very unreceptive. However, they are doctors and want you to be in good health. It's absolutely a necessity to see them before even considering a PH. You never know what sort of things can turn up in bloodwork. Furthermore, look up your family history...if all of your mom's brothers had premature balding, and a few of your uncles died from prostate cancer, that's something you should know. Don't be afraid to talk to people about it, it's not something you should go at alone.

People on this forum (and everywhere really) will give you very different answers as to when you're "ready" to take a PH/DS/AAS. Some will say you shouldn't do it unless you're competing, some will tell you to do it without asking how much research you've done. Personally I'd say wait until you're at least 21 to start so you can avoid the growth plate issue. However, some people still grow after that so if you think you're gonna be a late bloomer, wait a few more years. Of course, nothing magical happens the day you turn 21, 25, or even 30 really. As long as you're out of puberty, I would say you're "old enough". The question then becomes, "are you mature enough?" to take one. This breaks down to several factors that you NEED to ask yourself:

1) Have I really been working out like I should? Make sure you're doing your big three lifts (squat, bench press, deadlift) and keeping track of your weights+reps on everything you do. Change up your workouts every 6-8 weeks. Vary them with supersets, dropsets, 5x5 training...there's no shortage of training programs available to anybody. If you don't measure your progress you'll never improve.

2) Has my diet really been proper? Make sure you're eating enough. If you're eating 3000 calories throughout 3 meals, there's a problem there that can be very easily solved without a PH.

3) Am I still making progress? This goes back to point one. If you've hit a plateau, try training with a partner to push yourself further. Don't be afraid to ask someone at the gym to spot you with a weight that might be a little heavier than what you normally do. Get a workout buddy or even consider getting a personal trainer if it will help you get around your problem.

4) How dedicated am I? Remind yourself how long you've been working out and how seriously. If you just started eating 5 balanced meals a day plus pre and post workout protein shakes a month ago, you're not ready. If you had to buy a chicken farm to keep up with how much you eat, and you've never missed a workout for five years, then it may be something to consider.

5) Am I really ready? Even if you think you are, ask yourself this and seriously consider it. Are you going to push yourself THAT much harder? Are you going to shovel food in your mouth to meet the caloric surplus necessary to reach your goals? Did you do all the research on what support supplements you need and what to do in the case of X happening?

Finally, I would say that you need to understand that these are not products that do all the work for you. They will allow you to work beyond your body's regular limits, but you MUST be prepared to train at the new limits you've granted yourself. Hope that's helped you make your decision, but really...if you're asking yourself if it's "worth the sides" I would say that you're not at that stage where you are ready for it. That's not a bad thing though, and nothing anyone says should make you feel like you -need- to do it.